Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
To be honest I don't understand how Leaf fans have ever been happy with Burke in the first place.
As soon as he made that Kessel deal I knew he was going to ruin the Leafs and you know I'm actually a huge Kessel fan and was at the time of the deal. It just wasn't a smart move, not only because of the picks but because Kessel is the kind of player you plug into a team that is already a contender that needs more scoring. You don't build around a guy like that.
Sure enough it failed. The Phaneuf deal was good but too little too late and left some serious holes on the team. Yeah sure you got Phaneuf, the center position on the Leafs is abysmal. Considering all the D you guys already have and Finger in the AHL being paid 4 million I think it was a bit of a rash move even despite it landing you guys Phaneuf for a solid price. It addresses one need and opens up others.
So now Burke is clearly JFJ #2 and he's about to likely make some trades that could solidify that comment as truth.
If he mortgages more of the future to be a #8-10 team for the next year or two before he figures out that the leafs needed a rebuild all along I'm going to feel really bad for you guys. He needs to just trade all these players except the young ones like Schenn who will be paid far less than they are worth for the next couple seasons.
Get rid of guys like Kessel, Beauchemin, Kaberle, Phaneuf, heck that D on paper is so good and yet they don't play that well as a unit. You can't just throw money at the best available UFA's and hope for the best. Komi and Beau have been lackluster at best and Kaberle could honestly be doing better on another team. Phaneuf has really been the one I see giving a lot effort and he took a ton of flack earlier on this season. I just think Burke should cut his losses after the end of the season (try to get 10th place or something rather than 14) and then do a complete rebuild.
The team will be a disaster if he trades away the future again mark my words.
To be honest I don't understand how Leaf fans have ever been happy with Burke in the first place.
As soon as he made that Kessel deal I knew he was going to ruin the Leafs and you know I'm actually a huge Kessel fan and was at the time of the deal. It just wasn't a smart move, not only because of the picks but because Kessel is the kind of player you plug into a team that is already a contender that needs more scoring. You don't build around a guy like that.
Sure enough it failed. The Phaneuf deal was good but too little too late and left some serious holes on the team. Yeah sure you got Phaneuf, the center position on the Leafs is abysmal. Considering all the D you guys already have and Finger in the AHL being paid 4 million I think it was a bit of a rash move even despite it landing you guys Phaneuf for a solid price. It addresses one need and opens up others.
So now Burke is clearly JFJ #2 and he's about to likely make some trades that could solidify that comment as truth.
If he mortgages more of the future to be a #8-10 team for the next year or two before he figures out that the leafs needed a rebuild all along I'm going to feel really bad for you guys. He needs to just trade all these players except the young ones like Schenn who will be paid far less than they are worth for the next couple seasons.
Get rid of guys like Kessel, Beauchemin, Kaberle, Phaneuf, heck that D on paper is so good and yet they don't play that well as a unit. You can't just throw money at the best available UFA's and hope for the best. Komi and Beau have been lackluster at best and Kaberle could honestly be doing better on another team. Phaneuf has really been the one I see giving a lot effort and he took a ton of flack earlier on this season. I just think Burke should cut his losses after the end of the season (try to get 10th place or something rather than 14) and then do a complete rebuild.
The team will be a disaster if he trades away the future again mark my words.
Why the heck would you get rid of Kessel? He's 23 and you'll never get near as much for him as you paid to get him?
Was listening to him talk and he said that he belives that Burke and company have some big moves in store he said that Brian Burke will do WHATEVER it takes to make the Leafs a playoff team/contender next year. He said we are in the Market for a top line C as top line LW and a legit #1 goalie according to Dreger we have the assets to get this done.
so Leaf fans if we are to take Dreger at his word and he is one of most connected guys in the business do you expect Kadri and/or our 2012 1st to be on the block? I think it's a damn good possibilty.
what does it matter, really, it's out of our control, and, it's all about the return.
what centerman is this years Phaneuff?
Realistically, a player for our top line. People keep tip-toeing around this fact, but the only players Toronto needs are those for the top line and a goaltender. Our problems this year haven't been the D, nor have they been the "2nd line" of MacArthur-Grabo-Kulemin, nor have they been the 3rd of Versteeg-Boyce-Armstrong (although an upgrade at centre would be nice). Would we be willing to sacrifice some of the players that haven't been a problem? absolutely, but only if a player to solve at least one of our problems is coming back in the deal.
The type of deal that Toronto has to make is multiple players for one top liner.
if we got a 1st line center, Bozak would be a great fit there.
Versteeg-Bozak-Armstrong would pretty much be a 2B line
...with Boyce dropping to the 4th, and making that line stronger also.
Was listening to him talk and he said that he belives that Burke and company have some big moves in store he said that Brian Burke will do WHATEVER it takes to make the Leafs a playoff team/contender next year. He said we are in the Market for a top line C as top line LW and a legit #1 goalie according to Dreger we have the assets to get this done.
so Leaf fans if we are to take Dreger at his word and he is one of most connected guys in the business do you expect Kadri and/or our 2012 1st to be on the block? I think it's a damn good possibilty.
well he could always go out and get some players in the offseason. if they cant get top line players then just get players that can play at both ends of the ice which would make a big difference. picking up a guy like brooks laich for the 2nd line centre spot would be a big plus for this team.
Arguably the most difficult and expensive position to fill.
The problem the Leafs are running into is all the teams that have centers that would be worth making an offer for seem to be making the playoffs and won't be selling players for pennies on the dollar.
Why the heck would you get rid of Kessel? He's 23 and you'll never get near as much for him as you paid to get him?
sometimes its ok to count your losses and move on. Kessel has revealed himself to once again NOT be a game changer, NOT be able to carry his team during a struggle, NOT be a player to build around. As a matter a fact, it seems when kessel aint scoring the Leafs aint winning. Kessel would be a great addition to a team thats looking to "get over the hump".
I actually believe Toronto getting rid of the 2012 pick might not be such a bad Idea. Some of their younger talents will have more experience in the NHL. A playoff team? probably not, but that pick might not be as High as this year (and last year). If I was Burke I would consider moving :
The pick (2012)
Kaberle
Giggy
Depending on your return for the above you may have to move
Kessel
Grabovski.
Now, I'm not saying all of them should get moved. But I am looking at the leafs roster and who on the team would get you SOMETHING of a return.
I Think Kaberle will have to be packaged with something to get any type of return because of him being a rental (unless the team can negotiate a contract ext).
Schenn is your untouchable imo, kid has the looks of a stud.
if we got a 1st line center, Bozak would be a great fit there.
Versteeg-Bozak-Armstrong would pretty much be a 2B line
...with Boyce dropping to the 4th, and making that line stronger also.
^^this
Combined Bozak and Kessel are not playing well defensively and need to be broken up.
Even if a first line center isn't found try it with a couple of bangers that can forecheck and do the dirty work for Kessel.
Kulemin Grabovski McArthur
Versteeg Bozak Armstrong
Meuller Hanson Kessel - not ideal but having Kessel dangle against 3rd pairing dmen might be enough to free some room and light a spark under him. These two also give the Leafs some size up front.
Sjorstrom Boyce Brown
You don't consider him a decent source even though his cousin is part of the Leafs' top brass?
y'know blair if Nonis were feeding him info on the sly, he'd soon be working somewhere else
Dreger, has used various sources and his insider knwoledge to come up with something everyone who is anyone knows what the Leafs need to obtain to make a turnaround happen
what the Leafs don't have
1. consistent goaltending (a starter who'll own the job)
2. consistent scoring (dominant centre or LW for the 1 line)
that about right?
what the leafs need.....I'm sure everyone could fill out those two items if their even mildly paying attention
you just need to add the part that Burke is working on it now, no not now but right now and say "possibly" even a mega deal
voila! you've taken your first step to being the insider..if you're a blogger you get called a rumour mongerer and if you happen to work for TSN you get called knowledgeable
To be honest I don't understand how Leaf fans have ever been happy with Burke in the first place.
As soon as he made that Kessel deal I knew he was going to ruin the Leafs and you know I'm actually a huge Kessel fan and was at the time of the deal. It just wasn't a smart move, not only because of the picks but because Kessel is the kind of player you plug into a team that is already a contender that needs more scoring. You don't build around a guy like that.
Sure enough it failed. The Phaneuf deal was good but too little too late and left some serious holes on the team. Yeah sure you got Phaneuf, the center position on the Leafs is abysmal. Considering all the D you guys already have and Finger in the AHL being paid 4 million I think it was a bit of a rash move even despite it landing you guys Phaneuf for a solid price. It addresses one need and opens up others.
So now Burke is clearly JFJ #2 and he's about to likely make some trades that could solidify that comment as truth.
If he mortgages more of the future to be a #8-10 team for the next year or two before he figures out that the leafs needed a rebuild all along I'm going to feel really bad for you guys. He needs to just trade all these players except the young ones like Schenn who will be paid far less than they are worth for the next couple seasons.
Get rid of guys like Kessel, Beauchemin, Kaberle, Phaneuf, heck that D on paper is so good and yet they don't play that well as a unit. You can't just throw money at the best available UFA's and hope for the best. Komi and Beau have been lackluster at best and Kaberle could honestly be doing better on another team. Phaneuf has really been the one I see giving a lot effort and he took a ton of flack earlier on this season. I just think Burke should cut his losses after the end of the season (try to get 10th place or something rather than 14) and then do a complete rebuild.
The team will be a disaster if he trades away the future again mark my words.
Thing most people don't remember (or choose not to remember) is that Burke didn't bring in Kessel to strictly build a team around. He brought Kessel in for the exact reason you stated; he thought this was a playoff team that needed more scoring.
Entering a season with Schenn coming off a fantastic rookie year, with the additions of Beauch/Komi; our blue line was seen as "solid". Tosk-lol-a was coming of surgery that was supposed to bring him back to 100% (we all know how well that worked). The forward core was much deeper than it is now. Sure it wasn't the strongest top6 but with the addition of a young 36 goal scorer, it'd surely make us a playoff contender...r.rrright?
Komi bomed, beauch hardly showed up, tosklola was tosklola, Schenn was mired in a somphomore slump, Hagman would score a hattrick then vanish for a month, Stemp was non-existant and so on.
Just about everything that could have gone wrong did. And we all know how it's played out since.
I wouldn't be too happy if Burke wasted assets on a goalie right now. I say just let Scrivens/Rynnas/Reimer have a shot at it.
Yup. The Leafs have fantastic depth in term of goalie prospects. No point in trying to get a starter now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamFan81
sometimes its ok to count your losses and move on. Kessel has revealed himself to once again NOT be a game changer, NOT be able to carry his team during a struggle, NOT be a player to build around. As a matter a fact, it seems when kessel aint scoring the Leafs aint winning. Kessel would be a great addition to a team thats looking to "get over the hump".
I actually believe Toronto getting rid of the 2012 pick might not be such a bad Idea. Some of their younger talents will have more experience in the NHL. A playoff team? probably not, but that pick might not be as High as this year (and last year). If I was Burke I would consider moving :
The pick (2012)
Kaberle
Giggy
Depending on your return for the above you may have to move
Kessel
Grabovski.
Now, I'm not saying all of them should get moved. But I am looking at the leafs roster and who on the team would get you SOMETHING of a return.
I Think Kaberle will have to be packaged with something to get any type of return because of him being a rental (unless the team can negotiate a contract ext).
Schenn is your untouchable imo, kid has the looks of a stud.
Why would they have to "Cut Their Losses" with Kessel? He's only 23. Who says you have to build your franchise around him? He's a fine top line 30-35 goal scorer as a minimum. There's just no point in moving him.
