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Toronto to make a big move (or moves?)

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01-28-2011, 10:10 AM
  #226
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This is just Burkes way of letting the UFA's know he will be buying. With Semin and Moulson being locked up Burke wants to let those left (ie Richards) know that he has cap space and will be buying come July 1.

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01-28-2011, 10:11 AM
  #227
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To be honest....I think the Leafs should really just consider building through the draft and hang on to the picks they have left. I think Burke should resign himself to the fact that the team is what is and that they are going through a rebuilding process. I think that teams that build through the draft are far more successful.....examples being Pittsburgh, Chicago etc...these teams had to endure through several rebuilding years and out of the playoffs but in the end they were able to stockpile some good picks that helped to make the teams better....I think this is the approach that Burke should take moving forward.....trading more prospects and potential high end draft picks I think is a big mistake.

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01-28-2011, 10:12 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt77850 View Post
To be honest....I think the Leafs should really just consider building through the draft and hang on to the picks they have left. I think Burke should resign himself to the fact that the team is what is and that they are going through a rebuilding process. I think that teams that build through the draft are far more successful.....examples being Pittsburgh, Chicago etc...these teams had to endure through several rebuilding years and out of the playoffs but in the end they were able to stockpile some good picks that helped to make the teams better....I think this is the approach that Burke should take moving forward.....trading more prospects and potential high end draft picks I think is a big mistake.
will their ever be a towes/kane a crosby a ovi in the draft any time soon?

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01-28-2011, 10:16 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by CamFan81 View Post
sometimes its ok to count your losses and move on. Kessel has revealed himself to once again NOT be a game changer, NOT be able to carry his team during a struggle, NOT be a player to build around. As a matter a fact, it seems when kessel aint scoring the Leafs aint winning. Kessel would be a great addition to a team thats looking to "get over the hump".


I actually believe Toronto getting rid of the 2012 pick might not be such a bad Idea. Some of their younger talents will have more experience in the NHL. A playoff team? probably not, but that pick might not be as High as this year (and last year). If I was Burke I would consider moving :

The pick (2012)
Kaberle
Giggy

Depending on your return for the above you may have to move
Kessel
Grabovski.

Now, I'm not saying all of them should get moved. But I am looking at the leafs roster and who on the team would get you SOMETHING of a return.

I Think Kaberle will have to be packaged with something to get any type of return because of him being a rental (unless the team can negotiate a contract ext).

Schenn is your untouchable imo, kid has the looks of a stud.
I would say this is the most accurate assessment of the leafs made by a non-leaf fan

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01-28-2011, 10:17 AM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt77850 View Post
To be honest....I think the Leafs should really just consider building through the draft and hang on to the picks they have left. I think Burke should resign himself to the fact that the team is what is and that they are going through a rebuilding process. I think that teams that build through the draft are far more successful.....examples being Pittsburgh, Chicago etc...these teams had to endure through several rebuilding years and out of the playoffs but in the end they were able to stockpile some good picks that helped to make the teams better....I think this is the approach that Burke should take moving forward.....trading more prospects and potential high end draft picks I think is a big mistake.
First off, I hate people using Pittsburgh as an example. They went bankrupt and everything that could have gone well for them did. That situation will not be repeated. The Leafs will not go bankrupt and they won't ending up drafting Crosby or Malkin. Hoping to be like Pittsburgh is like hoping to win the lottery.

Even Chicago got a massive break moving up from #4 to #1 in the draft getting Kane.

What about Florida, Columbus, Atlanta? No one mentions them. Rebuilding has not worked for them at all.

To blow-up everything in hopes you'll end up like Pitts or Chicago is silly and unrealistic imo.

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01-28-2011, 10:20 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oshie74 View Post
Man, Blues and Leafs are in the same position...we should like team up or something...
let`s change rosters and prospects first

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01-28-2011, 10:23 AM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
First off, I hate people using Pittsburgh as an example. They went bankrupt and everything that could have gone well for them did. That situation will not be repeated. The Leafs will not go bankrupt and they won't ending up drafting Crosby or Malkin. Hoping to be like Pittsburgh is like hoping to win the lottery.

Even Chicago got a massive break moving up from #4 to #1 in the draft getting Kane.

What about Florida, Columbus, Atlanta? No one mentions them. Rebuilding has not worked for them at all.
To blow-up everything in hopes you'll end up like Pitts or Chicago is silly and unrealistic imo.
If they added $20 million to their payrolls and spent to the cap, they would have been/would be contenders.

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01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
  #233
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???-???-Kessel
Kulemin-Grabovski-MacArthur
Versteeg-Bozak-Armstrong
Sjostrom/Orr-Hanson-Brown

That's a solid enough line-up, IMHO. Mind you, those question marks can be very difficult pieces for any team to acquire, but it's not unheard of. Worst case scenario, the Leafs can't acquire the pieces they need to be competitive, completely suck again next year and end up in a very good draft position. I really can't see Burke trading next year's first-rounder after the Kessel overpayment.

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Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
If they added $20 million to their payrolls and spent to the cap, they would have been/would be contenders.
lol, come on. That's just pure speculation. The fact is that most teams who have undergone a "rebuild through the draft" were anything but successful. That's not to say that it can't work, but people really need to drop this widespread assumption that "tanking" while retaining picks somehow guarantees success. Many teams that are enjoying successful seasons right now didn't build their teams this way. As I've said before, it's not as black-and-white as people here make it out to be. It's not a matter of either building through the draft or building through free agency/trades, it's always and invariably a combination of some good drafting (be it in the first round or otherwise), some good free agent signings, some good trades and a lot of luck.


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01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
If they added $20 million to their payrolls and spent to the cap, they would have been/would be contenders.
That's a terrible excuse. Their draft picks haven't worked out.

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01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
  #235
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How do you do whatever it takes, if you clearly do not have what it takes? Future assets, on ice talent, management talent or economic competitive edge... Leafs lack in every aspect.


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01-28-2011, 10:26 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Yup. The Leafs have fantastic depth in term of goalie prospects. No point in trying to get a starter now.
I don't understand this... it's not a farm team.

If you start a guy 30 games, trying to figure out what you have, you might just blow another season.

Get yourself a legit starter and break the young guys in as backups. Taking good prospects and throwing them into the fire is what got Toronto in this mess.

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01-28-2011, 10:27 AM
  #237
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I guess they could make a push for the playoffs. But I don't see the players they have forming a contender. I definitely think if they add a couple good players they can make the playoffs but I don't view it as a good plan for the future. If they want to build a team that can seriously contend, Toronto is missing some Top line talent to do so. A first line center and winger are pressing needs. That is pretty damn hard to acquire in todays nhl. You have to get that through the draft or overpay in ufa. But the problem is most teams lock up their good top line talent before they can hit the market.

You could go the way of Montreal and sign some above average talent at elite price tags and have a playoff team, but if you want to be a cup threat you finish in the bottom and draft top talent.

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01-28-2011, 10:28 AM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
That's a terrible excuse. Their draft picks haven't worked out.
Florida had 93 points two seasons ago, the most a team has ever missed the playoffs with.

Add $20 million + to that roster and you have yourself a contender.

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01-28-2011, 10:29 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Why would they have to "Cut Their Losses" with Kessel? He's only 23. Who says you have to build your franchise around him? He's a fine top line 30-35 goal scorer as a minimum. There's just no point in moving him.
Basically what Jmart said below. The fact that Burkes plan fell through and Kessel is no longer an "addition" to a possible playoff team, he IS the Only High profile player on the leafs right now.

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Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
Thing most people don't remember (or choose not to remember) is that Burke didn't bring in Kessel to strictly build a team around. He brought Kessel in for the exact reason you stated; he thought this was a playoff team that needed more scoring.

Entering a season with Schenn coming off a fantastic rookie year, with the additions of Beauch/Komi; our blue line was seen as "solid". Tosk-lol-a was coming of surgery that was supposed to bring him back to 100% (we all know how well that worked). The forward core was much deeper than it is now. Sure it wasn't the strongest top6 but with the addition of a young 36 goal scorer, it'd surely make us a playoff contender...r.rrright?

Komi bomed, beauch hardly showed up, tosklola was tosklola, Schenn was mired in a somphomore slump, Hagman would score a hattrick then vanish for a month, Stemp was non-existant and so on.

Just about everything that could have gone wrong did. And we all know how it's played out since.
IF the acquisition of Kessel was to help push the leafs into the playoffs because Burke believed he was close to that caliber, It hasn’t worked 2years running. With the letdowns of the leafs goaltending (Giggy + Monster), Defensemen (Komi, beauchemin, phaneuf) Burke is almost forced to build around Kessel now because he’s really the only high profile talent he has on that team (and future). That in of itself is a big issue due to the fact that Kessel is NOT an all around great talent. Offensively? Yes. Anything else? No.

Also, The fact that Burke is on record saying he constructs his team from the NET-OUT tells me that if there are going to be ANY changes its going to be a Solid Goalie pickup + A solid Defenseman. Those things don’t grow on trees and when I think of the the assets the leafs have to make a move like that Kessel’s name is on the list.

Picking up a #1 center is not going to be an easy thing to do, What does the leafs have to acquire one? Also, this UFA waiting game hasn't really helped the leafs all that much now has it. Everyone it seems the leafs have targeted or are targeting are being giving extensions or are signing elsewhere.

WHEN richards is locked up, then what?


Last edited by CamFan81: 01-28-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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01-28-2011, 10:30 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by AndMat View Post
i can see the ducks helping burke.

getzleaf

for

Kuli
gabo
and a d prospect

they way the ducks are playing without getz this could benfit both teams.
Getzlaf wouldn't go anywhere for less than Kadri, Schenn and 2012 1st, and even then that's probably not enough. He's 25, 6'4, and most of all a reliable 80-90 point center who has a Cup ring.

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01-28-2011, 10:30 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
Florida had 93 points two seasons ago, the most a team has ever missed the playoffs with.

Add $20 million + to that roster and you have yourself a contender.
That's only 1 year though. They haven't made the playoffs in 8 years. If their draft picks had turned out as good as they hoped (the whole point of doing a full rebuild) then they would have had much better results.

a few extra million isn't the answer when your draft picks keep turning out a level or two worse than you hoped for.

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01-28-2011, 10:32 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by oshie74 View Post
Man, Blues and Leafs are in the same position...we should like team up or something...
Never again.


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01-28-2011, 10:33 AM
  #243
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"Richards or bust!"

If Dallas does not retain him, i'll be surprised. His departure would leave a big hole up the middle for them.

And there is no other significant UFA available next summer.


There is a real possibility of Burke blowing yet more picks to land whatever.

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01-28-2011, 10:36 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by BruinsButton View Post
Florida had 93 points two seasons ago, the most a team has ever missed the playoffs with.

Add $20 million + to that roster and you have yourself a contender.
06'-07' Colorado Avalanche had 95 pts and still missed the playoffs

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01-28-2011, 10:40 AM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
First off, I hate people using Pittsburgh as an example. They went bankrupt and everything that could have gone well for them did. That situation will not be repeated. The Leafs will not go bankrupt and they won't ending up drafting Crosby or Malkin. Hoping to be like Pittsburgh is like hoping to win the lottery.

Even Chicago got a massive break moving up from #4 to #1 in the draft getting Kane.

What about Florida, Columbus, Atlanta? No one mentions them. Rebuilding has not worked for them at all.

To blow-up everything in hopes you'll end up like Pitts or Chicago is silly and unrealistic imo.
Who said anything about blowing anything up? My point is that they shouldn't blow anything up and that they should stand pat. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of other teams that you can look at that did it that way as well...Washington is another great example....Not saying that a Crosby or Malkin will be there or even an Ovechkin....but a Toews or Cane might well be....or a Stamkos, or a Hall, or a Staal....and I think building that way makes more sense than what they have been doing. But again to use your term, Toronto has zero chance of getting a "massive break" by trading away high picks and prospects. I also disagree that Columbus, Atlanta, and Florida didn't benefit from getting good draft picks (Columbus got Nash, Atlanta got Kovalchuck, Bogosian, Kane, Florida got Weiss).....I'd also argue that that those three teams were never quite as horrible as Pittsburgh was or Chicago was for as long which means that P and C ended up getting more and better picks. The three teams you mention I think were always just out of the playoffs...rather than the worst team overall.....just my opinion.

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01-28-2011, 10:50 AM
  #246
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What would it take for the leafs to get Oshie?

Is he untouchable; or would it take too much of a overpayment.

____-____-Kessel
Kulemin-Grabovski-MacArthur
_____-Kadri-Armstrong
_____-_____-_____

are the only forwards i would like to keep.
----
available:
Versteeg(could be replaced with cheaper 3rd liner), Bozak, Sjostrom. + other 3rd/4th liners.

Any on D except Schenn, Phaneuf, Aulie.


If we did acquire Oshie. How would he look on the left wing? or has he just played C.

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01-28-2011, 10:56 AM
  #247
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Originally Posted by TML nation13 View Post
will their ever be a towes/kane a crosby a ovi in the draft any time soon?
Since Crosby every player taken first overall in the draft would be a great core piece for any team.

Crosby - 2005
E Johnson - 2006
Kane - 2007
Stamkos - 2008
Tavares - 2009
Hall - 2010

Any of those players step onto that Toronto roster and immediately become one of their best players. All but two likely become their best (Tavares and Hall) and those only because they are so young, and honestly I think a very good argument could be made for John T. Both will only get better, and quickly.

Every year someone asks "will there even be a Crosby in a draft anytime soon"? What does that matter? Crosby happens to be the best of the best, but the rest are some incredible players in their own right. Keystones of a franchise.

So to answer the question, yes, there will likely be another Kane/Toews in a draft very very soon, likely next year. There likely won't be a Crosby or Ovi come around in the next year or two. That first overall pick though, it'll likely be a very very good player regardless of that fact and one a team like Toronto would be very smart to build around. Trading that 2012 1st would be absolutely hilarious, unless you're a Leaf fan.

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01-28-2011, 10:58 AM
  #248
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Absolutely 0% chance Kessel is available, that would require Burke having to admit that he ****ed up, which isn't happening.

If Burke trades away Toronto's 2012 first he should be fired on the spot.

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01-28-2011, 11:14 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by IrishPaulie View Post
I honestly can't believe Burke is dumb enough to sell the rest of the teams future for help. The Leafs have 43pts with 33 games left, the average 8th seed since the lockout needs 92 pts. The leafs would most likely need to get 49pts out of the 66pts up for grabs.

Trying to overpay for help right now seems counter productive.
except it would have NOTHING to do with this year and EVERYTHING to do with 2012-2014-

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01-28-2011, 11:22 AM
  #250
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[QUOTE=mt77850;30514586]Who said anything about blowing anything up? My point is that they shouldn't blow anything up and that they should stand pat. The fact of the matter is that there are plenty of other teams that you can look at that did it that way as well...Washington is another great example....Not saying that a Crosby or Malkin will be there or even an Ovechkin....but a Toews or Cane might well be....or a Stamkos, or a Hall, or a Staal....and I think building that way makes more sense than what they have been doing. But again to use your term, Toronto has zero chance of getting a "massive break" by trading away high picks and prospects. I also disagree that Columbus, Atlanta, and Florida didn't benefit from getting good draft picks (Columbus got Nash, Atlanta got Kovalchuck, Bogosian, Kane, Florida got Weiss).....I'd also argue that that those three teams were never quite as horrible as Pittsburgh was or Chicago was for as long which means that P and C ended up getting more and better picks. The three teams you mention I think were always just out of the playoffs...rather than the worst team overall.....just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

very good point which i dont think people realize about the leafs either. last year and this year have to be 2 of the worst years they have had. most of the past 6 years they have sat just outside a playoff spot and well out of a lottery pick. its really crappy the team didnt come together this year to get out of the lottery pick yet but i dont think burke couldve predicted they would do this bad 2 years in a row for the 2 boston draft picks. but it is happening leafs fans need to deal with it. if you cant get anything for giggy or kaberle try to resign on the cheap with giggy as his value has gone down and let kaberle go if he wont resign. use the cap to pick up someone IE richards without blowing more picks or prospects. toronto has been trading picks for a long time and have had competitive teams. is there a site i can see who those picks were from the first round. i think there were only a couple that wouldve made a big difference. so i think if your a top5 pick the draft is more likely to help but anything below that is a bit of a coin toss. you can end up with zetterberg in the later rounds too so scouting plays a big role in that.

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