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Toronto to make a big move (or moves?)

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Old
01-29-2011, 01:11 PM
  #501
SteenMachine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
He is like eklund, states the obvious...pure specualtion, and is rarely right...but hey, you are a fan...who am I to judge...
Speculation is always rarely right, otherwise it would be predicting... no one said he's psychic they said he has actual sources.

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01-29-2011, 01:13 PM
  #502
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by IrishPaulie View Post
I'm talking more about players on ELCs that are able to contribute without eating up a bunch of cap space. Buying other teams successful first rounders is not only costly from a team standpoint (costing: picks, prospects, roster players) but you don't get the cheap 3 ELC years were you can really stack a roster.

Toronto has a decent foundation to build on. The problem is without players on ELCs the roster will reach a saturation point where you overpay for known talent and don't have the prospects to fill in the holes on a cheap contract to round out a roster.

IMO Toronto needs to get a solid 1st liner if not this year then next but needs to start rebuilding their prospect pool if they hope to be a successful playoff team or a team that can compete int he playoffs consistently.
You do realize that at most, you get 1-2 years out of an ELC's benefits, right?

Rookies with no professional experience are rarely good NHL hockey players, while the whole benefit of ELCs tends to now get overblown with the Hawks success last year. Everyone hyped up how good the Oilers would be with all these rookie additions, but neglected to mention that they lost guys like Mike Comrie, Robert Nilsson & Patrick O'Sullivan. Hall/Eberle/MPS obviously have some great long term upside, but in the context of NHL players, they really aren't significantly better than these guys, all of whom are cheaper. Tyler Seguin is another good example, he's not really doing anything that the Bruins couldn't have got by spending his base salary in unrestricted free agency.... and doing that wouldn't have led to the penalties that the Bruins will undoubtedly face next year.

Most rookies spend their first year of an ELC in the AHL with some limited NHL action. In the 2nd year they tend to become full time NHLers and not exceptionally good ones at that, and then the 3rd year is where you get the benefit, but the big benefit is usually reserved for the guys who elevate themselves to top players in the league.

The only guys who you get more than 1 year of benefit out of are the top draft picks, who also come with massive bonus structures that your team must work with.

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01-29-2011, 01:19 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
Was listening to him talk and he said that he belives that Burke and company have some big moves in store he said that Brian Burke will do WHATEVER it takes to make the Leafs a playoff team/contender next year. He said we are in the Market for a top line C as top line LW and a legit #1 goalie according to Dreger we have the assets to get this done.


so Leaf fans if we are to take Dreger at his word and he is one of most connected guys in the business do you expect Kadri and/or our 2012 1st to be on the block? I think it's a damn good possibilty.
What, is he high or something? Where are all those assets the Leafs can use to get a No 1 center, a no 1 LW and a legit #1 goalie?

Anyway, if I were a leafs fan I would be really depressed to hear this. The last thing I'd want is a GM who's determined to get to the playoffs next year "whatever it takes". I'd be much happier with one who sounded like he was in touch with reality, didn't speak as if he assumed that I was a raving lunatic who'll probably tear down the stadium if he doesn't feed me some short-term balloney right now and who had a viable plan to build a contender even if it took a while.


Last edited by Qvist: 01-29-2011 at 01:24 PM.
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01-29-2011, 01:25 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by TML nation13 View Post
this thread
lol

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01-29-2011, 01:33 PM
  #505
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if dreger is saying it something will go down after all star weekend.

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01-29-2011, 01:36 PM
  #506
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lol wut?

I'd rather have Kaberle + Versteeg than Oshie + Laich


You too did not catch on to the humor...

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01-29-2011, 01:43 PM
  #507
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with the play of logan couture this year and big joe on the first line maybe pavalski would make some sense for both teams. toronto gets a center for kessel. it would be a multi player deal but and i'm sure the sharks would get wingers and defense in return.

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01-29-2011, 01:47 PM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders0n74 View Post
You too did not catch on to the humor...
I'm referring to the 3-way deal in which Toronto gives up Kaberle and Versteeg, and get Laich and Oshie in return.

You said that Toronto makes out like bandits.

Were you being serious?

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01-29-2011, 01:51 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
We've got the beginnings of that already: Schenn, Kessel, Kadri, and Kulemin. And if Phaneuf returns to his former norris calibre level of play, that's a pretty solid core. I'd say we're a big top-line LWer away from being around 5th or 6th in the East (on paper at least) once Kadri transitions to the bigs anywhere from 1 year from now to 3.
Unless that LW is truly an elite (top 10 or so in the league) talent, I can't see the Leafs jumping to top 5/6.

Philly, Pittsburgh, Tampa, Washington, Boston all seem to be well positioned for success in the coming years, and just adding a LW isn't enough to spring board Toronto over all of NYR, Montreal, Carolina & Atlanta, IMHO.

They'll be in PO contention, but top 5 or 6 is a stretch.

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01-29-2011, 02:07 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by MapleLeaf View Post
We've got the beginnings of that already: Schenn, Kessel, Kadri, and Kulemin. And if Phaneuf returns to his former norris calibre level of play, that's a pretty solid core. I'd say we're a big top-line LWer away from being around 5th or 6th in the East (on paper at least) once Kadri transitions to the bigs anywhere from 1 year from now to 3.
If Phaneuf returns to Norris form - which is a pretty huge If - you have a solid top pairing. It's just that with Kaberle gone, your second isn't looking that great. Kulemin, Kadri, Kessel is the makings of a pretty good second line.

If you think that adds up to the 5th/6th-best team in the East, it must be allowed to point put that you are being very optimistic.

This team does not have the core to be a contender, nor anything close to it. It doesn't have a forward with the potential to be good enough to build around, the defense lacks depth and overall quality, despite Schenn and Phaneuf's great potential. And they do not have a credible no 1 goalie, nor a goaltending prospect with any realistic potential in that direction.

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01-29-2011, 02:51 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by 93gilmour93 View Post
if dreger is saying it something will go down after all star weekend.
anyone, and everyone knows the Leafs will be doing something...after the break...BB will be active in February...no crystal ball needed...

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01-29-2011, 02:53 PM
  #512
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anyone, and everyone knows the Leafs will be doing something...after the break...BB will be active in February...no crystal ball needed...
we know something will happen , its how big and how good the players coming back are.

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01-29-2011, 03:01 PM
  #513
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we know something will happen , its how big and how good the players coming back are.
Don't hold your breath, Leafs fans.

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01-29-2011, 03:03 PM
  #514
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Don't hold your breath, Leafs fans.
one can hope

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01-29-2011, 03:31 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
If Phaneuf returns to Norris form - which is a pretty huge If - you have a solid top pairing. It's just that with Kaberle gone, your second isn't looking that great. Kulemin, Kadri, Kessel is the makings of a pretty good second line.

If you think that adds up to the 5th/6th-best team in the East, it must be allowed to point put that you are being very optimistic.

This team does not have the core to be a contender, nor anything close to it. It doesn't have a forward with the potential to be good enough to build around, the defense lacks depth and overall quality, despite Schenn and Phaneuf's great potential. And they do not have a credible no 1 goalie, nor a goaltending prospect with any realistic potential in that direction.
Kessel is a 1st liner!

They need a center to play with him, and any LW will do well with a Legit 1st Line Center and Kessel.

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01-29-2011, 03:41 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by GoBs View Post
Kessel is a 1st liner!

They need a center to play with him, and any LW will do well with a Legit 1st Line Center and Kessel.
The point is that if Kulemin, Kadri and Kessel is your top line five years from now, Toronto is unlikely to be a contender.

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01-29-2011, 03:48 PM
  #517
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I think some fans are overvaluing their older, big contract players, and I suggest that if Toronto is willing to move some younger, cheaper players they can obtain a #1C and #1LW. While some Sens fans think Spezza can walk on frozen water, I believe that Kadri + unnecessary would be enough to obtain him (disclosure: I'm a Sens fan). For Penner, a UFA after next season, Versteeg + nice would work. Now the problem for the Leafs would be to dump salary, and they might have to add a pick to a Komisarek deal to get him to one of the teams on his could-be-traded-to list.

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01-29-2011, 03:48 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
The point is that if Kulemin, Kadri and Kessel is your top line five years from now, Toronto is unlikely to be a contender.
Yes, most likely. Who knows how good Kadri will turn out though.

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01-29-2011, 03:58 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
Yes, most likely. Who knows how good Kadri will turn out though.
Possibilities, possibilities........

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01-29-2011, 04:06 PM
  #520
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Nothing to get excited about for Trade Deadline deals by Burke, he's traded for three 2nd rd picks and Caputi the last few years and the picks are nothing more than suspects, and Caputi has shown nothing and is now injured.

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01-29-2011, 04:21 PM
  #521
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01-29-2011, 04:25 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
You do realize that at most, you get 1-2 years out of an ELC's benefits, right?

Rookies with no professional experience are rarely good NHL hockey players, while the whole benefit of ELCs tends to now get overblown with the Hawks success last year. Everyone hyped up how good the Oilers would be with all these rookie additions, but neglected to mention that they lost guys like Mike Comrie, Robert Nilsson & Patrick O'Sullivan. Hall/Eberle/MPS obviously have some great long term upside, but in the context of NHL players, they really aren't significantly better than these guys, all of whom are cheaper. Tyler Seguin is another good example, he's not really doing anything that the Bruins couldn't have got by spending his base salary in unrestricted free agency.... and doing that wouldn't have led to the penalties that the Bruins will undoubtedly face next year.

Most rookies spend their first year of an ELC in the AHL with some limited NHL action. In the 2nd year they tend to become full time NHLers and not exceptionally good ones at that, and then the 3rd year is where you get the benefit, but the big benefit is usually reserved for the guys who elevate themselves to top players in the league.

The only guys who you get more than 1 year of benefit out of are the top draft picks, who also come with massive bonus structures that your team must work with.
So you pick out a bottom feeder in Edmonton as a comparison. Let's look at the Caps for instance. Are you saying they aren't reaping the benefits of the ELCs of Carlson and Alzner? What about the goaltending? Even Mojo has jumpstarted the team when needed and has been one of the better PKers.

So yea, I'd say teams with superstars chomping up salary do benefit. Bottom feeder teams with no superstar salary issues don't.

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01-29-2011, 05:44 PM
  #523
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I just heard on sportsnet that Versteeg wouldn't mind being traded.

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01-29-2011, 06:09 PM
  #524
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I just heard on sportsnet that Versteeg wouldn't mind being traded.
unless you give us a link--get ready to be flammed

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01-29-2011, 06:09 PM
  #525
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So you pick out a bottom feeder in Edmonton as a comparison. Let's look at the Caps for instance. Are you saying they aren't reaping the benefits of the ELCs of Carlson and Alzner? What about the goaltending? Even Mojo has jumpstarted the team when needed and has been one of the better PKers.

So yea, I'd say teams with superstars chomping up salary do benefit. Bottom feeder teams with no superstar salary issues don't.
Absolutely they are -- but Alzner is up for a raise after this year and Carlson next year. Like I said, the benefit is usually 1-2 years at most.

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