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Francois Beauchemin to Vancouver

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Old
01-30-2011, 06:18 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
We don't, Leafs fans are telling us why we need him because apparently he's better than Hamhuis.
He is better than Hamhuis, I wasnt the person who said that earlier in the thread but I still agree.

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01-30-2011, 06:21 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Luongo - Nonis


Sedin - Burke
Sedin - Burke
Kesler - Burke


Do you really have to go any further than those 4 names?

those are the names that make your team great right now.
Burke and Nonis get credit for bringing those players in but Gillis gets credit for surrounding them with a solid team and every single one of those players (even Luongo has been excellent this season so far) have taken their game to a new level while Gillis has been around here.

Most GM's inherit some talent while in Vancouver. Heck Burke inherited his share of great talent in Anaheim as well but he brought in the final pieces needed to get that Ducks team to the next level.

Gillis so far has done a similar thing where he has not only seen these core players go to a new level during his time here so far but he's surrounded them with key peices.

For example many have said that Mats Sundin played a role in helping both the Sedins and Kesler get to the next level. Kesler played with Sundin and the Sedins have mentioned how they saw Sundin on and off they ice and it has helped their game.

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01-30-2011, 06:39 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
He is better than Hamhuis, I wasnt the person who said that earlier in the thread but I still agree.
Well, you're wrong.

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01-30-2011, 07:34 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Hugh Whitbread View Post
Well, you're wrong.
Im never wrong

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Old
01-30-2011, 08:06 PM
  #180
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one of the best teams in the NHL right now DOES NOT need to trade with a bottom feeding crap team. Beauch would slot in somewhere between Ballard and Alberts on the nucks. For this deal to REMOTELY be considered by the Canucks the leafs would have to offer a pick or prospect, and bare minimum coming back to the leafs. Remember Laff fans, it's Toronto who would need to sweeten the pot not Vancouver

Because Vancouver doesn't need to make any trades, But Toronto sure does

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Old
01-30-2011, 11:00 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by last row purple View Post
He is better than Hamhuis, I wasnt the person who said that earlier in the thread but I still agree.
You have to keep in mind that every single human being in Vancouver with a TV has the leafs playing at 4pm at least once a week every single week one regular cable.

People in Vancouver see with their own eyes the Leaf players and the team. Its too bad that people in Toronto dont get to see Vancouver games except a few rare times per year.

Having said that, I will give this opinion. Beauchemins best days are behind him, he is not a top four dman and is badly over payed at this point.
Regarding Hamhuis, he is a considerably better player then Beauchemin, infact its not even close.

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01-30-2011, 11:02 PM
  #182
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lmao this thread is still going

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Old
01-31-2011, 01:16 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Agent007 View Post
Most GM's inherit some talent while in Vancouver. Heck Burke inherited his share of great talent in Anaheim as well but he brought in the final pieces needed to get that Ducks team to the next level.

Gillis so far has done a similar thing where he has not only seen these core players go to a new level during his time here so far but he's surrounded them with key peices
The difference between Burke's tenure in Anaheim and Gillis' in Vancouver (so far atleast) is that Gillis had all the core guys already there when he took over. Burke had some of the core players (Pahlsson, Getzlaf, Perry, Giguere, McDonald) there already but he had to revamp the entire defense. And coaching staff.

Also what Burke brought to Anaheim was a totally new style of play and attitude, Ducks went from one of the softest teams in the league to a modern time version of Broad Street Bullies in 3 years.

Gillis hasn't had to go that deep, atleast not yet. If Nucks don't do well in the play-offs this season, there could be some deeper changes than just roster moves.

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01-31-2011, 02:51 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
The difference between Burke's tenure in Anaheim and Gillis' in Vancouver (so far atleast) is that Gillis had all the core guys already there when he took over. Burke had some of the core players (Pahlsson, Getzlaf, Perry, Giguere, McDonald) there already but he had to revamp the entire defense. And coaching staff.

Also what Burke brought to Anaheim was a totally new style of play and attitude, Ducks went from one of the softest teams in the league to a modern time version of Broad Street Bullies in 3 years.

Gillis hasn't had to go that deep, atleast not yet. If Nucks don't do well in the play-offs this season, there could be some deeper changes than just roster moves.
I do agree with most of this but the bolded part is wrong. Before Gillis this wasn't exactly a high scoring team. While Burke was here this team was a high scoring team but couldn't stop the puck. While Nonis was here this team had very little problem stopping the puck but couldn't score much.

With Gillis this team (especially those from the Nonis era) have taken their offensive game to a new level. There's no doubt in my mind this has to do with the way that Gillis wants his hockey team to play. On top of that they're doing a pretty good job keeping the puck out of their net as well.

You have to give Gillis some props in the sense where he knew what peices he wanted to keep and what peices needed to go. It's pretty easy for a GM to come in and shake things up real big and he could have traded guys like Kesler, Edler or the Sedins but he not only did not trade them he got them all resigned to pretty good deals.

Every single core player that was brought in by Burke or Nonis has been resigned by Gillis and has seen their game go to a new level. Some of this is due to a natural development curve but some of it has to be due to the things that Gillis does behind the scenes (ie player development).

When Gillis came here he singled out two areas that he wanted to improve. One was drafting and the other was player development. The drafting is one that is a little to early to judge on but as far as player development goes things are looking pretty good so far.

The point I'm trying to make here is that would the Sedins be 100+ point players under Burke or Nonis?? Maybe, maybe not but they are 100+ point players under Gillis and he was smart enough to get them locked up to real good deals before that happened.

I give Burke and Nonis credit for drafting our core players (and in Luongo's case trading for) but outside of that the players and the current management team gets credit for what they've done since that point.

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Old
01-31-2011, 06:42 AM
  #185
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This thread was a success

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02-08-2011, 01:01 AM
  #186
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This thread was a success
agreed

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Old
02-08-2011, 01:08 AM
  #187
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No, the Canucks still don't want him.

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Old
02-08-2011, 01:34 AM
  #188
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The point I'm trying to make here is that would the Sedins be 100+ point players under Burke or Nonis?? Maybe, maybe not but they are 100+ point players under Gillis and he was smart enough to get them locked up to real good deals before that happened.
I think this point should be emphasized. People need to realize that building a cup contending team is more than just getting the right players, it's also about getting them at the right price.

I agree Burke's contribution to Anaheim's cup win was huge, but he also left Anaheim in cap hell upon his departure. Burke took advantage of the abundance of good contracts with Perry, Getzlaf, Penner, Pahlsson, Kunitz, Beauchemin, and Macdonald. With a solid core locked up at a reasonable price, he went out and got the high priced Niedermayer and Pronger. Even though I am a Canuck fan and I dislike Burke, I'm not going to pretend he doesn't know how to get good players; however, I think he is atrocious at player(Umberger situation) and salary management.

I think Mike Gillis has done a good job because he locked up our core and managed the salary cap beautifully. Other than Lou's questionable terms (but good cap hit), I doubt anyone can point to any player on the Canuck roster and call him a salary dump.

Gillis also looked at our weakness each year and addressed it appropriately. Upon his arrival, he was firm about building a fast, high scoring team. During his first off season, he saw that we lacked a high end point getter, so he went out of his way to attract Sundin to Vancouver, which did wonders for young players such as Kesler and Raymond. He also got Demitra, which some would call a mistake. But his first season in Vancouver was far from a mistake, and was a suitable gap plug during transition period. During the second off season, he recognized our need for a high quality PMD, so he got Ehrhoff and Schneider (whose ego was unfortunately too big for being a depth dman). Ehrhoff is now an indispensable member of our team. Last off season, he recognized our need for a tougher 3rd line and more durable dmans in case of inevitable injures to our blue line, so he went out and got Hamhuis, Ballard, Malhotra, and Torres.

Gentlemen, that is why I think Gillis is a damn good GM and a big reason why the Canucks are the number 1 team this year, with a bright future ahead.

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Old
02-08-2011, 01:59 AM
  #189
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I sooooo saw this thread getting bumped coming

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02-08-2011, 02:04 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
I sooooo saw this thread getting bumped coming
before, or after this?...

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:47 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Toronto's collection of blueliners is every bit as good as Vancouver's minus Salo (who's yet to play a game anyways and puts Vancouver over the cap). The difference between the two teams -- forwards, goaltedning, and coaching.



Because they are rebuilding. Any team that tries to change over almost all 20 players will struggle, especially when they are one of the youngest in the league. You don't fire a GM 2 years in when he came here to rebuild a team and isn't done yet. Any Leaf fan should be pissed at the recent on-ice results, but any leaf fan on these boards has to objectively ask themsevles when talking about trades, does this make our team better?
Wow...I mean, just wow....Vancouver is undoubtedly one of the top 3 D-corps in the league.

Im not even a fan of the Canucks, but reading that is simply unbelievable, even for you.

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02-08-2011, 10:42 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by stardog View Post
Wow...I mean, just wow....Vancouver is undoubtedly one of the top 3 D-corps in the league.

Im not even a fan of the Canucks, but reading that is simply unbelievable, even for you.
With Salo and everyone healthy, sure. But with Salo and everyone healthy, they're over the cap. Vancouver's D without Salo is about as good as Toronto's healthy D (which they have been for most of the year). Both are filled with #2/3 defencemen, lack a true #1, but have 5 guys who are easily top 4 defencemen.

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02-08-2011, 10:52 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
With Salo and everyone healthy, sure. But with Salo and everyone healthy, they're over the cap. Vancouver's D without Salo is about as good as Toronto's healthy D (which they have been for most of the year). Both are filled with #2/3 defencemen, lack a true #1, but have 5 guys who are easily top 4 defencemen.
Van's d without Salo is much, much better. Regardless of the structural similarities the players that compose Vancouver's defense are far superior and thus the defense in general is better. Bury your head in the sand all you want, it doesn't change the truth.

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02-08-2011, 11:41 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
With Salo and everyone healthy, sure. But with Salo and everyone healthy, they're over the cap. Vancouver's D without Salo is about as good as Toronto's healthy D (which they have been for most of the year). Both are filled with #2/3 defencemen, lack a true #1, but have 5 guys who are easily top 4 defencemen.
Alex Edler is a #1 defenseman...

Goals from the defense-

Vancouver- 32
Toronto- 12

These defense corps' are not comparabe in any way. The Canucks group is much more skilled, move the puck quicker, better on the PP, faster and better in their own zone. They're better in every single facet of the game.

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02-08-2011, 11:49 AM
  #195
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I think this point should be emphasized. People need to realize that building a cup contending team is more than just getting the right players, it's also about getting them at the right price.

I agree Burke's contribution to Anaheim's cup win was huge, but he also left Anaheim in cap hell upon his departure. Burke took advantage of the abundance of good contracts with Perry, Getzlaf, Penner, Pahlsson, Kunitz, Beauchemin, and Macdonald. With a solid core locked up at a reasonable price, he went out and got the high priced Niedermayer and Pronger. Even though I am a Canuck fan and I dislike Burke, I'm not going to pretend he doesn't know how to get good players; however, I think he is atrocious at player(Umberger situation) and salary management.
I think the key to Burke is that he is guy that'll make that bold move on one hand, but on the other he has a distinct lack of patience and simply makes whatever bold move is available at the time. His contribution to the cup win in Anaheim was primarily the addition of Niedermayer and Pronger, two Norris winning defenseman. It's not like he willed the moves to happen though, Niedermayer was finished in New Jersey and wanted to test the market and Pronger demanded a trade out of Edmonton. That was kind of a perfect storm that you're not going to get everyday.

While Pronger was an obvious deal you make, he did give up the equivilent of 4 1sts and a 2nd for him. For Vancouver while the Sedin deal ended up being absolutely great for us, people don't realize how close to disasterous that was. He traded McCabe (a 23 year old developing top pairing dman), our next years first (potential lottery pick like Heatley or Gaborik) for the #4 overall pick which at this point could have left us with Stefan and Brendl in a worst case scenario, but blew through a pair of 3rd rounds to ensure we got the Sedins.

So if you look at his history is it any wonder that he's going to go for what's there at the moment? He wanted to make a splash at his first TO draft, so dropped a 2nd and a 3rd to move up 2 spots and get Luke Schenn over Wilson or Hodgson (not saying that's a bad thing). A recent top draft pick has a falling out with his team, and Burke jumps right in moving two 1sts and a 2nd to get him. By this point it should be pretty obvious how Burke runs his teams, and why Anaheim and Vancouver had so little organizational depth once he left them.

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02-08-2011, 12:04 PM
  #196
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On topic...

If Ballard is indeed done for the season, I'd be interested in picking up Beauchemin. The problem is, I think Toronto values him far too highly. We aren't interested in giving up any of our top prospects (Hodgson, Schneider, Schroeder, or Rodin) and we don't want to move any roster players.

If we could get it done for something like Shirokov and a 3rd I'd be fine with it, otherwise we look elsewhere for a cheaper solution like Montador for example. Assuming we get Edler back by playoffs...

Edler-Ehrhoff
Bieksa-Hamhuis
Salo-Montador
Alberts

That's fine even if Salo goes down. We then have Rome and Tanev who are both capable depth defenders. The only troublesome situation is if we lose Salo before Edler returns.

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02-08-2011, 12:19 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Van's d without Salo is much, much better. Regardless of the structural similarities the players that compose Vancouver's defense are far superior and thus the defense in general is better. Bury your head in the sand all you want, it doesn't change the truth.
No, they're really not. Bury your in the sand all you want, it doesn't change the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Alex Edler is a #1 defenseman...

Goals from the defense-

Vancouver- 32
Toronto- 12

These defense corps' are not comparabe in any way. The Canucks group is much more skilled, move the puck quicker, better on the PP, faster and better in their own zone. They're better in every single facet of the game.
Alex Edler isn't a legitimate #1 defenceman. Like all Vancouver defencemen, they've benefitted from depth.

Toronto doesn't get goals from the blueline because they do an extremely poor job generating traffic infront of the net, and cycling the puck down low. The Canucks are very strong up front, which opens up the point shots.

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02-08-2011, 12:21 PM
  #198
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Ballard's agent @benhankinson just talked to him and Ballard says "it's not as bad as it looks. I'm pretty flexible." No prognosis yet tho.

From Bob McKenzie

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02-08-2011, 12:26 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
No, they're really not. Bury your in the sand all you want, it doesn't change the truth.



Alex Edler isn't a legitimate #1 defenceman. Like all Vancouver defencemen, they've benefitted from depth.

Toronto doesn't get goals from the blueline because they do an extremely poor job generating traffic infront of the net, and cycling the puck down low. The Canucks are very strong up front, which opens up the point shots.
Good one

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02-08-2011, 12:29 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
No, they're really not. Bury your in the sand all you want, it doesn't change the truth.



Alex Edler isn't a legitimate #1 defenceman. Like all Vancouver defencemen, they've benefitted from depth.

Toronto doesn't get goals from the blueline because they do an extremely poor job generating traffic infront of the net, and cycling the puck down low. The Canucks are very strong up front, which opens up the point shots.
You're living in the past here, bud. From last playoffs until his injury, he has played like a #1 defenseman EASILY. He has game changing potential, is physical, a top shut down guy, and was on pace for 50+ pts.

Last offseason everyone had said if Edler plays like he did last playoffs, he'll be a legit #1. Well, he's done that AND some.. I realize you probably haven't watched too many Canucks games since you're out East, and you're likely regurgitating info, but things change and this is one of them. Edler is the real deal.

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