HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Henrik with Legitmate Shot at Vezina???.....FINALLY??

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-30-2011, 08:48 PM
  #51
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 18,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post
Yeah I can feel that. Lundqvist is always the 2nd or 3rd best statistically in the league, and there is 1 or 2 guys that have a great year that are better than him that year.

Its that consistincey though that make me think hes the best goalie in the league to have on your team. Honestly the last 5 years of all the NHL, he could be one of the MVP's.
And his consistency won't get him a Vezina, sadly.

The hot goalie of the year will keep screwing him out of it.

BlueshirtBlitz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 08:49 PM
  #52
Blatant
Formerly NYRFan1823
 
Blatant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: @blatantlacrosse
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Overall, I feel that Lundqvist is the best goalie in the league, but the Vezina is awarded for the best goalie in a single year, which, unfortunately, Lundqvist has never been.

It doesn't matter, though, because most of those goalies have trouble repeating such a performance, and thus, fall down the depth chart. I'd rather have a consistent top-3 goalie than a one hit wonder borderline top-10 goalie.
Yeah that's what I was saying. He is bound to eventually win one, but I was never saying he deserved it this year. Its all Thomas' to lose.

Blatant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 08:50 PM
  #53
Blatant
Formerly NYRFan1823
 
Blatant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: @blatantlacrosse
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
And his consistency won't get him a Vezina, sadly.

The hot goalie of the year will keep screwing him out of it.
But obviously you would take the consistent goalie ever time.

Unfortunately for Lundy, he has not won an award that he is so deserving of.

Blatant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 08:53 PM
  #54
Rangerfans
Registered User
 
Rangerfans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post
But obviously you would take the consistent goalie ever time.

Unfortunately for Lundy, he has not won an award that he is so deserving of.
Personally, he hasn't been good enough to win the Vezina yet.

He'll be rewarded for it (hopefully) when he earns it. Thus far - as good as he has been - other goalie(s) (ie: Tim Thomas) have far exceeded him.

Rangerfans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 08:55 PM
  #55
Blatant
Formerly NYRFan1823
 
Blatant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: @blatantlacrosse
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
Personally, he hasn't been good enough to win the Vezina yet.

He'll be rewarded for it (hopefully) when he earns it. Thus far - as good as he has been - other goalie(s) (ie: Tim Thomas) have far exceeded him.
I meant that he has deserved it with the way he has played over 5 years, the way he has kept this team afloat with the lack of scoring. Not that in any year he has deserved it more than someone else satistically. I mean that he deserves to win it for himself. Hopefully he will one day.

Blatant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:00 PM
  #56
Gardner McKay
Hey Hey...
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 9,764
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
Nope Tomas has it in the bag unless he crashes and burns the last 30 games.
Which I think will happen.

Gardner McKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:00 PM
  #57
Giglio NYR15
Section 417
 
Giglio NYR15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,516
vCash: 500
I would take henrik over tim thomas anyday. Obvs thomas stats are better this year and he will most likely win the vezina, but any day out of the year i will pick henrik. I mean what happens when the rangers play a backup or a rookie all season in net???....they stand on their head, it just always seems to happen. Now im not doubting what the guy has done this year, im just saying wheres tim thomas consistency and gold medal. Not to mention henrik just embodies new york and the rangers....and arguably the best dressed/looking nhl player who carries himself with class(no mo).

Giglio NYR15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:04 PM
  #58
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 18,692
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
Personally, he hasn't been good enough to win the Vezina yet.

He'll be rewarded for it (hopefully) when he earns it. Thus far - as good as he has been - other goalie(s) (ie: Tim Thomas) have far exceeded him.
Far exceeded him?

Sans Thomas this year who's just blowing away everything (which is a fluke because he will never repeat this performance, guaranteed) Hank is on par with most Vezina winners since he became an established NHL goaltender. I'd take Hank over a guy like Ryan Miller every day of the week.

BlueshirtBlitz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:14 PM
  #59
Rangerfans
Registered User
 
Rangerfans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Far exceeded him?

Sans Thomas this year who's just blowing away everything (which is a fluke because he will never repeat this performance, guaranteed) Hank is on par with most Vezina winners since he became an established NHL goaltender. I'd take Hank over a guy like Ryan Miller every day of the week.
Yes, Thomas is far exceeding Henrik. As you, yourself, pointed out.

Thomas is DESTROYING everyone is save % (an awesome .945. He rank #1.
Henrik Lundqvist is 7th with a respectable .924

Thomas is FIRST in GAA with a ridiculous 1.81. That is unheard of.
King Henry is 8th with a 2.29.

Thomas is FIRST tied with Hank in Shutouts with 7.

Thomas is SECOND in wins.
Henrik is 10th.

So let's see...

Thomas: 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd.
Hank: 7th, 8th, 1st, 10th.

How should this be Henrik's year?

Rangerfans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:20 PM
  #60
Blatant
Formerly NYRFan1823
 
Blatant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: @blatantlacrosse
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
Yes, Thomas is far exceeding Henrik. As you, yourself, pointed out.

Thomas is DESTROYING everyone is save % (an awesome .945. He rank #1.
Henrik Lundqvist is 7th with a respectable .924

Thomas is FIRST in GAA with a ridiculous 1.81. That is unheard of.
King Henry is 8th with a 2.29.

Thomas is FIRST tied with Hank in Shutouts with 7.

Thomas is SECOND in wins.
Henrik is 10th.

So let's see...

Thomas: 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd.
Hank: 7th, 8th, 1st, 10th.

How should this be Henrik's year?
Of course Thomas is destroying everyone, but to be fair to Hank he is playing with a defense with an average age of like 23. AND:

he is .05 SP away from 2nd in the league.
he is .10 GAA away from 4th in the league
he is 1st in SO's
he is only 3 games from 2nd in wins, 4 from 1st.

Lets just be fair to the king. He has done great this year, and started out poorly. Of course Thomas has been better than anyone, but lets not sell our guy short.

Blatant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:22 PM
  #61
Rangerfans
Registered User
 
Rangerfans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post

Lets just be fair to the king. He has done great this year, and started out poorly. Of course Thomas has been better than anyone, but lets not sell our guy short.
Oh, I agree. I am not trying to sell Hank short. But I think it's pretty exciting (and I'm actually rooting for TT) to see a goalie that might actually have the best NHL season. Ever. That's pretty remarkable.

Granted, there are still 30+ games left. So a lot can change. Maybe TT falls, maybe Henrik continues to bring his A game. Personally, I have never seen a goalie be so stellar than what TT is doing right now.

Rangerfans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:24 PM
  #62
Blatant
Formerly NYRFan1823
 
Blatant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: @blatantlacrosse
Posts: 2,264
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
Oh, I agree. I am not trying to sell Hank short. But I think it's pretty exciting (and I'm actually rooting for TT) to see a goalie that might actually have the best NHL season. Ever. That's pretty remarkable.

Granted, there are still 30+ games left. So a lot can change. Maybe TT falls, maybe Henrik continues to bring his A game. Personally, I have never seen a goalie be so stellar than what TT is doing right now.
Yeah hopefully the only goals he gives up the rest of the season is to the Rangers. Grachev will score 10 on him

Blatant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:30 PM
  #63
Rangerfans
Registered User
 
Rangerfans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post
Yeah hopefully the only goals he gives up the rest of the season is to the Rangers. Grachev will score 10 on him


I think you're my favorite Ranger poster.

Rangerfans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 09:32 PM
  #64
New York RKY
Moderator
Let's Go Rangers!
 
New York RKY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dirty Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 12,018
vCash: 500
I don't think it's a given, like some of you make it out to be, that Thomas will win.

Yes, if he keeps up his current pace, then he will clearly win the Vezina.

I am not sure if he can keep up the numbers that he has had, but I think if his numbers slip then Lundqvist, imo, would be the wnd person nominated.

__________________
New York RKY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:06 PM
  #65
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I'd disagree. The favorites for the Hart are Crosby and Stamkos and the favorite for Vezina is Thomas. There's noone in the NHL right now carrying more weight than those three. I'd even argue that Hank has a much better team in front of him than does Thomas, especially on defense save for Chara.
The point I was trying to make, though...

The Penguins have been playing well without Crosby in the lineup.

If Crosby were their most valuable player, they would have been noticeably worse without him in the lineup... I'm not saying they could go deep in the playoffs without him, (the awards are based on regular season play, not playoffs) or that they could survive a long period without him.

Crosby is the face of the league, but I don't think he deserves mention for MVP consideration THIS year.

Stamkos I would agree. Though, they have a deep roster in Tampa, so it would have to be seen. St. Louis would need to be considered as well.

The Hart goes to the most valuable player.

Think of a player that's on a fringe playoff team or overacheiver, that without him, would probably miss the playoffs...that guy should win MVP (Hart Trophy)...

Brad Richards would be a good candidate. Having a career year, carrying the team on his back. Without Richards, that team may not be in the playoff picture. Its not a "popular" decision, but that's my point, the way the two trophies have been decided has become a popularity contest of sorts. The award shouldn't be given out on reputation. It should be given out based on unique merits of each season. This year, Brad Richards needs to be one of the front runners for the Hart.

Thomas (a great guy) has never really had to be "the guy" in Boston. He's really always been in a platooned tandem. He's never had to play 70+ games. If he does this year, then that's a different story.

So, case in point, the awards are still prestegious. I just don't like the way they favor specific players, even if someone else earned it more so, even if they're not a popular player.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:07 PM
  #66
Machinehead
RIP Robin Williams
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post
Yeah I can feel that. Lundqvist is always the 2nd or 3rd best statistically in the league, and there is 1 or 2 guys that have a great year that are better than him that year.

Its that consistincey though that make me think hes the best goalie in the league to have on your team. Honestly the last 5 years of all the NHL, he could be one of the MVP's.
I fear Lundqvist may face the same fate as Rocket Richard. The Rocket was the most prolific scorer of his day, but never won a scoring title because while he was always 2nd or 3rd, the hot scorer of that year was always 1st. Consistency unfortunately doesn't always win annual awards. I agree that Lundqvist has been the best over the past 5 as a whole though, and his situation with the Vezina is unfortunate.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:21 PM
  #67
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerfans View Post
I don't know how you can call the Vezina "a joke." And I can't fathom how you wouldn't give Tim Thomas the Vezina considering - as of right now - the man has the highest save % ever since its introduction.

Timmy Thomas DESERVES the Vezina.

First off, Thomas' GAA and SV% are NOT going to look the same by the end of the year. The awards are not won half way through a season.

Second, I shouldn't have to explain that playing FAR less games per year will drastically effect a goaltender's GAA and SV% numbers.

38
66
57
54
43
36
---
53
70
72
70
73
40

Let's see if we can guess what those numbers represent.

Get back to me when Thomas plays as many games as the REAL elite echelon goaltenders in the league.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:38 PM
  #68
Viking12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
Now most of you guys probably now hockey better then me. But seems to me statistics isn`t everything.
Havening the highest save % dosen`T make you the best goalie.

Defence is a team effort and so is every other aspect of the game so awarding one player the full credit or blame for a statistic dosn`T seem right

Now i don`T watch enough hockey to have an informed opinion who is the best goalie just saying in this and many other times statistic are overused.

Viking12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:51 PM
  #69
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking12 View Post
Now most of you guys probably now hockey better then me. But seems to me statistics isn`t everything.
Havening the highest save % dosen`T make you the best goalie.

Defence is a team effort and so is every other aspect of the game so awarding one player the full credit or blame for a statistic dosn`T seem right

Now i don`T watch enough hockey to have an informed opinion who is the best goalie just saying in this and many other times statistic are overused.

That's very accurate.

And its a reason I always bring up games played in any conversation reagrding the Vezina.

More games played = more minutes = more shots faced = more scoring chances faced = less rest = more physical and mental strain/drain.

Giving the Vezina to a goaltender that played 50 games opposed to goaltenders that played 70 games is insulting.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:53 PM
  #70
JeffMangum
Ra shi da
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 55,657
vCash: 300
Except Thomas is on pace for 68 games, with Lundqvist on pace for 70.

That argument makes no sense.

__________________

#TannerGlass2014
SEEN YOUR VIDEO!
#SheWentToHarvard
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 10:54 PM
  #71
John Torturella
Registered User
 
John Torturella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,832
vCash: 500
Tim Thomas is a system goalie. If he played for the Rangers he would not have such crazy numbers.

John Torturella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 11:10 PM
  #72
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Except Thomas is on pace for 68 games, with Lundqvist on pace for 70.

That argument makes no sense.

I CLEARLY wrote several posts back, that IF Thomas plays as many games as the elite goaltenders in the league, its a different story.

Thus far, all you can say is "on pace for". It hasn't happened yet.

The point has everything to do with the conversation.

Thomas was a Vezina finalist while playing nearly 20 games LESS then the other qualifying goaltenders. He's played more then 60 games ONCE in his career, several years ago.

IF Thomas plays nearly 70 games, and manages to maintain the numbers, then all is kosher.

Again, its insulting to be nominated as the best goaltender in the league for the season, in a season when you played 20 games less then the other nominees. That's a quarter of the season. That's well over a thousand less minutes on the ice.

Again, IF he plays that many games, great.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 11:38 PM
  #73
Giglio NYR15
Section 417
 
Giglio NYR15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,516
vCash: 500
The nhl players voted lundy the 4th hardest goalie to score on in the league. Luongo was 1 with 17%, Miller was 2nd with 16%, Thomas was 3rd with 15%, and Henrik was 4th with 14.8%. If im starting a draft and need a goalie, i go miller, luongo, lundy over thomas anyday. Last year it was tukka tukka tukka....somethings gotta give eventually.

Giglio NYR15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2011, 11:38 PM
  #74
Zuccarello Awesome*
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,264
vCash: 500
Every year there's some hot goalie who everyone on HF jumps on board with, especially that goalie's team's fans. Wins and GAA are hugely team-affected statistics. Even save-percentage can be skewed up or down by the way the team's defense plays. I could even see Henrik going his entire career without winning one, but that doesn't mean he's not the best goalie in the world. In my mind, he is the best. To me, it's simple: He has the single best combination of physical talent and mental focus of any goalie in the NHL, and in the world.

I can actually see Henrik winning the Conn Smythe before the Vezina.

Sidenote: Tim Thomas is such a wild, out of control flopper. Great reflexes and agility, but a complete showman / flopper. But, goalies like Thomas can win the Vezina with a hot year and a strong team defense. Henrik is the type of player who can literally carry a team on his back. He almost led a horrible Rangers team that could not BUY a goal past the Caps in a 7 game series a couple seasons ago. I think he's only gotten stronger mentally and he's just as good positionally. He needs to watch the cheating off the post / bad angle shots, but that's really his only weakness. His glove is not his strongEST attribute, but it's not a weakness. I'm confident that he's going to be huge for us in the playoffs for years to come. He has ice in his veins and is clutch. Zuccarello and Henrik are super clutch. Love them. LET'S GO RANGERS! HENRIK FOR CONN SMYTHE!


Last edited by Zuccarello Awesome*: 01-30-2011 at 11:47 PM.
Zuccarello Awesome* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2011, 12:10 AM
  #75
Machinehead
RIP Robin Williams
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 33,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The point I was trying to make, though...

The Penguins have been playing well without Crosby in the lineup.

If Crosby were their most valuable player, they would have been noticeably worse without him in the lineup... I'm not saying they could go deep in the playoffs without him, (the awards are based on regular season play, not playoffs) or that they could survive a long period without him.

Crosby is the face of the league, but I don't think he deserves mention for MVP consideration THIS year.

Stamkos I would agree. Though, they have a deep roster in Tampa, so it would have to be seen. St. Louis would need to be considered as well.

The Hart goes to the most valuable player.

Think of a player that's on a fringe playoff team or overacheiver, that without him, would probably miss the playoffs...that guy should win MVP (Hart Trophy)...

Brad Richards would be a good candidate. Having a career year, carrying the team on his back. Without Richards, that team may not be in the playoff picture. Its not a "popular" decision, but that's my point, the way the two trophies have been decided has become a popularity contest of sorts. The award shouldn't be given out on reputation. It should be given out based on unique merits of each season. This year, Brad Richards needs to be one of the front runners for the Hart.

Thomas (a great guy) has never really had to be "the guy" in Boston. He's really always been in a platooned tandem. He's never had to play 70+ games. If he does this year, then that's a different story.

So, case in point, the awards are still prestegious. I just don't like the way they favor specific players, even if someone else earned it more so, even if they're not a popular player.
First of all the Pens are 6-5 since Crosby went down. That's nothing to write home about. Secondly, you have to consider that guys step up when injury strikes, the same way the Rangers have. They can step up on a temporary basis, but if this team had to play 82 games without Crosby they barely make the playoffs if at all. IMO noone is more valuable to their team than Crosby is to the Penguins.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.