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11-13-2006, 05:41 PM
  #1
rt
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Trade Proposal

To FLA:
Shane Doan
Ladislav Nagy
Josh Gratton

To PHX:
Nathan Horton
Rostislav Olesz
David Shantz

I've been lurking around your board for a little while this afternoon, and I've noticed a couple of things. One of which is that Horton may or may not be in Martin's doughouse lately. Also, Olesz has been playing lower line minutes. Oh, and that many of you are crying out for more grit, more leadership, and others want an enforcer.

I'm not sure if Florida is ready for a deal like this. Sticking with the youth movement is probably the better course of action, but with guys like Bertuzzi, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, and Belfour around, there could be some win now mentality going on.

I won't pretend to be anything but ignorant regarding the Florida Panthers current situation. Because of this ignorance, my proposal could easily be way off base, and six shades of rediculous. If so, I'm sorry for wasting your time.

Both Doan and Nagy could potentially become UFAs this summer, if they do not extend their current contracts. Obviously Florida would have to have some reason to be confident that such extensions could be reached, before they would even consider such a trade.

For those unfamiliar with the Phoenix Coyotes in question:

Ladislav Nagy is 27 years old. In his last 122 NHL games he has scored 118 points. He earned those 118 points while playing with Phoenix, which was one of the worst teams in the NHL during those 122 games. He has had two major injuries in his career that both cost him considerable time. Other than those two injuries, which were both quite freakish in nature, he has had relatively healthy career. He has been off to a slow start this season, and has not been puting up the numbers most had hoped. He has also had no stability in his lines with both Mike Comrie and Steve Rienprecht (Phoenix's top two centers) being out with long term injuries. Since the day he arrived in Phoenix, Nagy has been the most naturally gifted forward on it's roster, he has also had more offensive potential than any other player to suit up for the Phoenix Coyotes. Unfortunate injuries, terrible teams, and the management's inability to provide him with any kind of stable chemistry has limited his production, thus far. He has the ability to take control of a game offensively. He has game breaking potential. At 27, the clock is ticking for him to fully realize it.
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Shane Doan is 30 years old. He has been the captain of the Phoenix Coyotes for four seasons. In that time he has been the team's most consistant two-way and physical forward. He has usually been used on both the first powerplay and first penalty killing units. He was an All-Star before the lock-out, and certainly would have represented Phoenix at the event had it been held last season. He and Nagy are the lone Coyotes on the ballot this season. He earned an Olypic gold medal while playing for team Canada, and has represented that country in numerous World Cups. He scored 30 goals for 66 points last season. He can change the momentum of a game with a thunderous hit, a dominant fist fight, or a clutch goal. He is widely recognized as one of the strongest players in the league. That said, he is not an offensive dynamo, by any stretch of the imagination. The afformentioned 30 goal season was a career high, for him. He is probably capable of 35-40 goals per year, but only in the right situation, and almost certainly no higher than that. 25-30 goals per year is a given. He is a powerforward. He is an inspirational player, and he commands the highest respect.
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At 24, Josh Gratton is a young enforcer. He is somewhat undersized for the role, but that has not seemed to be much of a hinderance. Fight fans will tell you that he is one of the most entertaining fighters out there. He is 100% offense, when his gloves are off. He can afford to have no defense because his face appears to be made of steel. The kid has taken the biggest shots from the biggest guys, and he won't go down. He's a similar player to former Panther and Coyote Darcy Hordichuk, both in fighting style, and in that both are capable of skating a regular shift in the NHL. Josh is a first cousin of current Panther Chris Gratton. The two speak to one another regularly.

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Last edited by rt: 11-13-2006 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
11-13-2006, 06:27 PM
  #2
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Ok, here's my first thoughts.
1. This trade is fairly decent, except for the fact that Nathan Horton might be worth a lot more than that. He's a future power forward in this league at a very young age with a lot of potential, having already scored 28 goals in his 2nd year. That being said, Doan and Nagy are of course two of the top players from the Coyotes when you don't count their young defensemen. Right now this is basically saying that Horton = Doan, and unfortunately it's likely not true. While Doan can put up some real nice points and is a leader for sure, it's not the same as having a power forward, the reason we drafted him. It depends how badly they think they need a PF, but moreso Horton is likely able to bring in more than just Doan.
2. Olesz for Nagy, well that's actually not too bad but I still wouldn't do it. Reason being while Olesz has shown flashes of brilliance but is still not developed so we don't know what he'll really be, we do know that Nagy can be a monster on offense, especially assists. BUT and it's a big but, he has real injury woes and has had for years. That's unfortunate because it has hurt his career and it's something the Cats don't need more of (see: Bertuzzi, Todd and Nieuwendyk, Joe). That being said, I really like Nagy and it's a shame he can't stay healthy. For now, Olesz isn't likely to go anywhere, he's signed for years cheap and brings a lot of skating energy to the team.
3. Shantz for Gratton, right now that's really a wash, probably the fairest part. I don't know that Shantz will ever be anything and we could sure use an enforcer. We have a few goalies in the pipeline as a previous thread showed and I don't know which if any will succeed (we haven't developed a goalie in years and Auld certainly doesn't count).

So with that said, while I'd be tempted to have Doan and Nagy, I think Shantz for Gratton is the most likely single part of that trade that is possible and I would do it for sure. Only problem is, would Chris be ok with a C. on his jersey

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Old
11-13-2006, 06:39 PM
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Thank you, I appreciate you puting some thought into your reply, and not flaming me. All of your points are fair. The only one I would take exception to is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
BUT and it's a big but, he has real injury woes and has had for years. That's unfortunate because it has hurt his career and it's something the Cats don't need more of (see: Bertuzzi, Todd and Nieuwendyk, Joe). That being said, I really like Nagy and it's a shame he can't stay healthy.
If you look at his enire career; Europe, the 'Q', the AHL, and the NHL, he hasn't had a problem with injuries, other than two major, isolated, unrelated, and freakish occurances. One was a collison way, way behind a play with Keith Tkachuk that broke his wrist, and the other was his sliding into the boards feet first, in what appeared to be a realatively harmless way, causing a sever knee injury. It's not that he's fragile and misses alot of time with nagging injuries, or that has one reocurring problem that keeps him on the shelf all of the time like a bum back, or something.

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11-13-2006, 06:48 PM
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Alright fair enough, although a player that can get freakish injuries is also something we don't need, we've kinda got a few of those, in fact both Horton and Weiss have had that happen, Olesz last year too. Might also have something to do with no enforcer on the team though, who knows. As I said, a healthy Nagy is a good Nagy, I mean he's not doing much of anything right now but I don't discount him for that, that's the entire Coyotes team at the moment. I know Doan is known for being a serious iron man in this league, much like Jokinen and Jaybo so far. Like I said, I'd be very tempted to get Doan and Nagy, but I don't see Horton leaving that easily or for just that. On the other hand, his younger counterpart Anthony Stewart is likely available. I can see a Coyotes/Panthers trade going through (TSN headline: Raining Cats and Dogs) though your GM will likely have to pretend we're Philly considering how much you guys trade with them. The other X factor is we've got no idea how Martin will be as a GM when it comes to something like this, when we had Keenan, anything was possible (Bertuzzi/Luongo) but now, who knows.

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11-13-2006, 06:59 PM
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Perhaps I shot for the moon a bit with Doan for Horton. The Marin Vs. Keenan statement is interesting, and one that I actually did consider. I think I've read around here that Horton has been in Martin's doughouse abit. Even being played on the fourth line for a time. Obviously Horton is 21 and Martin knows that, but perhaps he doesn't want to have to be patient. It could be that he feels this roster should be producing and wants the post season now, not two seasons from now. This is where my ignorance comes in. I haven't really had time to follow anything but our own mess this season.

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11-13-2006, 07:05 PM
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i found a proposal on here i actually like this seems like a good idea doan and nagy would be great on our team

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11-13-2006, 07:07 PM
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i dont think we would be able to have a team of doan nagy and bertuzzi for next year i think it would bring us over the cap

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11-13-2006, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Perhaps I shot for the moon a bit with Doan for Horton. The Marin Vs. Keenan statement is interesting, and one that I actually did consider. I think I've read around here that Horton has been in Martin's doughouse abit. Even being played on the fourth line for a time. Obviously Horton is 21 and Martin knows that, but perhaps he doesn't want to have to be patient. It could be that he feels this roster should be producing and wants the post season now, not two seasons from now. This is where my ignorance comes in. I haven't really had time to follow anything but our own mess this season.
Hell well I only say that because we know Keenan could potentially do any deal. But I find Martin a bit more conservative and if not that, preoccupied having both jobs, which may or may not be hurting this team. Anyway, Horton was indeed in the doghouse for a bit on the 4th line for not shooting I think in 10 straight periods and saying it wasn't a big deal. Well after he got promoted back he started scoring a few and he's getting back on track. Sometimes you just gotta whip the youngins in shape The way Martin works though, is that if he sits or demotes you, and you learn from it and start producing then your job is likely safe. He did the same to Stumpel and in the second half Stumpel came alive. Hagman and Huselius did not respond properly so they are gone. I find it far less likely that Horton will wind up in that situation. We would of course like to win now and get the postseason now as we've been waiting for 6 years with very little improvement each time. The team has gotten better but no major strides have been made so far, especially for a team that is capable of a lot more than what it's doing right now. Unless Horton really starts to not show up, I wouldn't count him out that easily. While Olesz isn't completely untouchable, he's done nothing bad to warrant his trading and I believe is signed for another 4 years or so. Thus why I said I'll take Josh Gratton, heh. If he's anything like Darcy Hordichuk then I am all over that part of the trade.

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11-13-2006, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-PANTHERS-10 View Post
i dont think we would be able to have a team of doan nagy and bertuzzi for next year i think it would bring us over the cap
How long are Nieuwendyk, Roberts, and Belfour on the books for?

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11-13-2006, 07:16 PM
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They each are only signed through this season.

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11-13-2006, 07:31 PM
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Belfour and Roberts will probably both retire, right? Unless Toronto has interest in Roberts.

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11-13-2006, 10:08 PM
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I'm not necessarily saying a trade with these players involved is needed, but a trade would look mighty nice right now.. something to get some more scoring over here because we obviously can't win games by scoring just 1 goal. Well it doesn't matter if we have two goals or four goals either, we still can't win.

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11-14-2006, 05:40 AM
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Great trade valuewise if the Panthers wanted to shoot their wad for one year. I actually see Horton turning into a Doan, someone projected as a power forward, but never completely living up to that role. I'm also a big fan of Nagy's. But what this trade would come down to is singularly trading potential future for a one shot wonder. I'm a firm believer in building through youth, but that was abandoned here. So go for one year, generate some revenue with a hopefully exciting team, and deal with the rest in the offseason.

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01-31-2011, 05:17 PM
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funny

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01-31-2011, 05:31 PM
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