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Old
01-31-2011, 10:58 PM
  #51
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Coming in peace.

Would the Preds match a 7m for 3 years offer?

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01-31-2011, 11:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
Coming in peace.

Would the Preds match a 7m for 3 years offer?
I obviously can't say for sure, but I'd imagine they would.

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01-31-2011, 11:21 PM
  #53
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I obviously can't say for sure, but I'd imagine they would.
IMO he's going to get that type of an offer. Also he'd probably sign it IMO.

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01-31-2011, 11:27 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
IMO he's going to get that type of an offer. Also he'd probably sign it IMO.
i think the preds would match just about any offer. if a team can offer more than nashville, they are wither bottom feeders or mid market teams as well.

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01-31-2011, 11:30 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
i think the preds would match just about any offer. if a team can offer more than nashville, they are wither bottom feeders or mid market teams as well.
There's a certain team with about 7.3m in defensemen coming off of the books if their HHOF defenseman (along with Salei) retires.

I'd love to see him wearing the Winged Wheel but I don't think he will, but if I'm Holland I'd give it a shot.

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02-01-2011, 12:03 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
There's a certain team with about 7.3m in defensemen coming off of the books if their HHOF defenseman (along with Salei) retires.

I'd love to see him wearing the Winged Wheel but I don't think he will, but if I'm Holland I'd give it a shot.
In that case, poile not only matches your offer he gives Holland the finger and tells him where he can go..


Last edited by Seth Lake: 02-01-2011 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Not appropriate
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02-01-2011, 12:10 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
Coming in peace.

Would the Preds match a 7m for 3 years offer?
I honestly think that $7 mil is higher than the Preds would prefer ($6-6.5 avg), but that they'd match it without much hesitation if given the opportunity. Anything above $7 mil though would start to give the Preds some pause and they'd likely automatically walk away from $8 mil based solely on the fact they want to be able to build a team around Weber/Suter with reasonable depth in talent.

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02-01-2011, 12:49 AM
  #58
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Honestly i think you have to look at both Suter and weber getting 6.5 mil as they are top elite dmen that can play defence and are good offensivly.

I do know from an inside source that Weber and Suter are both a little worried that Nashville cant afford to sign both of them.Weber does like nashville........only proplem i see is he also super competitive.....and hates to lose...so i think keeping the team competitive is important too.

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02-01-2011, 12:52 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Honestly i think you have to look at both Suter and weber getting 6.5 mil as they are top elite dmen that can play defence and are good offensivly.

I do know from an inside source that Weber and Suter are both a little worried that Nashville cant afford to sign both of them.Weber does like nashville........only proplem i see is he also super competitive.....and hates to lose...so i think keeping the team competitive is important too.
We're 4th in the west with games in hand and we've said that we'll do whatever it takes to get the signing done, I don't think it's too big of a problem.

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02-01-2011, 08:02 AM
  #60
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ohhhhh


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02-01-2011, 08:03 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
Coming in peace.

Would the Preds match a 7m for 3 years offer?
No. I also think Weber would go back to the Preds and say, I just got offered this, make it a longer deal for a little less money and I'm yours. I'm expecting something in the range of 8-10 years at about $5.5-6.5 million hitting the cap per season. $7m just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, especially for only 3 years.

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02-01-2011, 08:40 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I'm pretty sure that Weber is not negotiating during the season, therefore he won't be signed till the summer.

Weber and his agent have met with Poile. They know what each other wants. Poile has kept in contact with Shea's agent even meeting with him twice more, however the actual negotiations won't begin until the season ends.

Hopefully it's a tight deadline in late June...
Weber's agent will have Poile by the balls if it goes until this summer. He's elite, he's the captain, and oh yeah, only a short time to re-sign him before he instantly gets offer sheeted. Not to mention how bad it will look if we don't bring him back.

Even myself would consider not renewing if they don't bring Weber back.

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02-01-2011, 08:49 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I'm pretty sure that Weber is not negotiating during the season, therefore he won't be signed till the summer.

Weber and his agent have met with Poile. They know what each other wants. Poile has kept in contact with Shea's agent even meeting with him twice more, however the actual negotiations won't begin until the season ends.

Hopefully it's a tight deadline in late June...
I don't blame Weber for not negotiating during the season. I do believe that Poile could have shown more urgency in re-signing Weber last July and through camp.

If Weber wanted to be here, if the contract demands were within reasonable negotiations, and if Poile wanted to sign him- then it should have been done.

The fact that it didn't is more than a little concerning.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
We're 4th in the west with games in hand and we've said that we'll do whatever it takes to get the signing done, I don't think it's too big of a problem.
Regular season doesn't mean anything. For elite players, it usually revolves around the potential to win a Stanley Cup. Right now, Weber has no proof that Nashville can do that or will ever be able to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
No. I also think Weber would go back to the Preds and say, I just got offered this, make it a longer deal for a little less money and I'm yours. I'm expecting something in the range of 8-10 years at about $5.5-6.5 million hitting the cap per season. $7m just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, especially for only 3 years.
For Nashville, those numbers should be a no-brainer. If that's the ultimate contract, why wasn't signed sometime between July and September?



I've got to go back to what I wrote in last week's Friday Face-Offs:

Quote:
Willes really hits the nail on the head regarding the reasons too. It’s not obtaining the money to re-sign Shea Weber. It’s not even about obtaining the money necessary to re-sign Ryan Suter and Pekka Rinne. Ryan’s article (as have many other articles from Predators’ bloggers, including myself) does a good job of showing that Nashville can do that without crossing the perceived internal budget of the salary cap midpoint. This all comes down to convincing each of those players, in turn, that they can win consistently and compete for a Stanley Cup while playing in Nashville.

Ownership may continue to claim at every opportunity that their goal is to compete for a Stanley Cup every season. It’s fair to say that everything that they have done to this point has shown every indication of having the wherewithal and determination of seeing that through. If they fail to sign Shea Weber to a long-term contract, however, that tells me and Weber that there are limits to that wherewithal and determination.

Elite players want to have the same chance as every other elite player to compete for the Cup. If you don’t convince one that they will have that opportunity, you will not keep [them] once they reach unrestricted status- no matter how much they love the coach, their teammates, the city, or the fans. That fact has always been in my mind when I’ve made past pushes for that one piece to put Nashville over the hump (Hossa, Semin, and most recently Iginla).

That’s another “reality” for Paul Fenton, David Poile and the owners.
At some point most truly successful businesses have to take a significant risk- many times to break through to "another level".

The Predators have been gaining ground on the business side- attendance, revenues and sponsors. On the hockey side, they've plateaued. They are in a position where taking an increased risk by "cashing in" some of the built up momentum on the business side could help break that glass ceiling on the hockey side. And if the hockey side finally moves forward, it will take the business side even higher.

If Weber's contract isn't a longterm contract, that will be a significant blow to the chances of re-signing Ryan Suter, to the fans of the team, and to their marketing efforts.

I fully believe that money is not the issue (with Weber or Suter).

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02-01-2011, 09:27 AM
  #64
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A few things that I've been pondering.

1. Does the new ownership want to play with the big boys? If so then Weber and Suter's contracts are not an issue. If they don't, we will become the Oakland A's of hockey.

2. How does Poile handle our salary structure for our players and any prospective free agents. Does he do like Detroit's done, say, no one gets paid more than Lidstrom and everyone else falls in line or do contracts get signed according to the players themselves. I think following the Detroit model makes the most sense. Say, Weber and Suter are our most valuable players, they make the most, no one else makes what they make.

3. What do Weber and Suter expect to make? First off, if you compare them to guys like Dion, J-Bo and Campbell, they should make that or more. If Poile comes back and says, look, Duncan Keith was the Norris Trophy winner and he signed a long term deal for less money than Campbell. Will Weber and Suter be ok with making less than guys that aren't their equals on the ice?

4. All players want to play for a winner and have a shot at the Cup. Do Weber and Suter feel they have that chance here? Do they feel the need to lead this team to the next level? Do they like playing in Nashville or would playing in a bigger market be more to their liking? Do they want to erase the memory of being up in Game 5 with 13 seconds to go and a chance to clinch a victory on home ice or do they move on? Only they can answer those questions.

5. What teams realistically have the cap space to offer Weber a contract and fit him under the cap? Also, depending on the size of the contract, does that team have the draft picks to offer Nashville what is would require in compensation?

6. Do Weber and Suter realize they are better as a pairing then individually and would they want to split that chemistry up?

7. I am a little concerned that Weber hasn't been locked up because I remember at the SOTU in the summer they said the contract would be taken care of before camp and the season starts. The fact that it's now February does have me concerned but bottom line is, even if Weber signs an offer sheet, we have the right to match it.

8. The salaries of Sully and Dumont should cover any raises that are due Weber and Suter. Not to be mean to Sully and Dumont but our team has played pretty well in the absence of Sully and with Dumont getting limited minutes. I like their veteran presence but guys like Spaling, Halischuk and Mueller have all stepped up to play bigger roles than expected this season. Our top 6 could use some minor tweaking/upgrades but I'm pretty happy with what we've got. Assuming we have Lombardi and O'Reilly back at full strength next year, I think we'll be ok and if Lombardi isn't able to go, we can use that money to sign a decent forward up front to replace him.

Basically the money is there if we wish to spend it on these two, the question becomes, will we. I have seen no indications to say we won't. If we were willing to give Hornqvist a three year deal at the rate he's getting, I can't imagine the owners won't pony up the money for Weber.

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02-01-2011, 09:28 AM
  #65
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sorry, i don't think Poile should or could have done anything with Weber this summer.
Didn't his mother die this summer?

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02-01-2011, 10:16 AM
  #66
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Assuming Sully coming off pays for Weber and Dumont coming off pays for Suter, the only question is where does the money come from for a LEGIT scorer? We know we can fill in the D fine with the pipeline we got, so we can let Cube and SOB and eventually KK go. Poile is the master at finding 3rd and 4th line pieces that fit into the Preds style, plus we have a few of those in the system, so again, we got the complementary pieces covered. What needs to happen is Orly has to turn into an elite player or we have to buy one from somewhere. We've seen that happen once - PK. Methinks that's the signing that it's gonna' take to get Suter to sign, and maybe even to get Shea to sign long-term.

We can be competitive in the regular season without that scorer; we will not be able to pass both the wings and hawks in any season without one, so we're always fighting for the 4th spot at best. We've not proved we can get that deeper run into the playoffs yet - and really, we all know a scorer would help that. Someone said it - does ownership wanna' play with the big boys or not? They're solidifying themselves with the business community and they've done a terrific job getting joe six-pack in the building during a crappy economy. Can they find an extra $3.5 or so to upgrade a wing we been carrying at $1.5?

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02-01-2011, 10:17 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I'm pretty sure that Weber is not negotiating during the season, therefore he won't be signed till the summer.

Weber and his agent have met with Poile. They know what each other wants. Poile has kept in contact with Shea's agent even meeting with him twice more, however the actual negotiations won't begin until the season ends.

Hopefully it's a tight deadline in late June...
one thing about it, if that scenario comes true we should have plenty of cash to offer him...

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02-01-2011, 10:19 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
Coming in peace.

Would the Preds match a 7m for 3 years offer?
I would think so. But honestly I dont think Weber would sign for just 3 years. hes at a spot where he can get his "lifetime" deal if he wants it. I would be shocked if he signs anything less than a 6 year deal.

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02-01-2011, 10:30 AM
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I'd like to think they will be announced at the same time, ala toews/keith/kane

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02-01-2011, 10:36 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
Honestly i think you have to look at both Suter and weber getting 6.5 mil as they are top elite dmen that can play defence and are good offensivly.

I do know from an inside source that Weber and Suter are both a little worried that Nashville cant afford to sign both of them.Weber does like nashville........only proplem i see is he also super competitive.....and hates to lose...so i think keeping the team competitive is important too.
My inside source can beat up your inside source...

In all seriousness, can we stop this business of other fans coming here to let us know what they've heard from "a source" or what some analyst on TSN/CBC said about Weber. It's hardly believable, especially the "inside source" nonsense. Even if there is truth to it none of it matters right now. (this post isn't directed towards token)

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02-01-2011, 10:50 AM
  #71
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My inside source can beat up your inside source...

In all seriousness, can we stop this business of other fans coming here to let us know what they've heard from "a source" or what some analyst on TSN/CBC said about Weber. It's hardly believable, especially the "inside source" nonsense. Even if there is truth to it none of it matters right now. (this post isn't directed towards token)
I don't have an inside source I just know he'd take over very nicely in Lidstroms place and I feel the DRW can offer him 7+m for a long term deal. Man this guys is good.

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02-01-2011, 10:54 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
I don't have an inside source I just know he'd take over very nicely in Lidstroms place and I feel the DRW can offer him 7+m for a long term deal. Man this guys is good.
I think Poile would match anything short of 8 million to keep him off the Wings. That would be a disaster.

If the Wings go 8 mil for 6+ years, I guess we'll just take all those first rounders and hope for the best, but I just dont see Holland throwing away the future for one player. Definitely not the DRW way.

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02-01-2011, 11:03 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
I don't have an inside source I just know he'd take over very nicely in Lidstroms place and I feel the DRW can offer him 7+m for a long term deal. Man this guys is good.
I understand that position, however, how does it work with the cap?

Right now, detroit has est. 42 million tied up in 13 guys. that includes no Lidstrom and no goalie.

on D you have Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart and Kindl

Up front, you have Zetterburg, Datsyuk, Franzen, filipula, cleary, Bertuzzi, Holmstrom, Helm, and Abdelkader.

so tie up 7 million in weber, that puts you at 49 million. You still need 1 more top six dman, a 7th dman, 2 goalies, 3 forwards, and a 13 th forward. 8 guys for roughly 8-10 million dollars. Unless you think Detroit can win with the Dan Ellis/Mike Smith (for example) in net, and 4 rookies and 4 vets on the cheap, Detroit can't afford weber.

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02-01-2011, 11:35 AM
  #74
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To add to the discussion of signing Weber and Suter, you also have to factor in Colin Wilson's next contract.

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02-01-2011, 11:44 AM
  #75
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To add to the discussion of signing Weber and Suter, you also have to factor in Colin Wilson's next contract.
still an RFA and hasnt yet produced like Hornqvist so I would think his next deal will be for significantly less than 3 mil per.

also could possibly end up signing his QO and trying to play for bigger money in another year.

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