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Zach Parise to Boston (deadline deal)

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Old
02-01-2011, 09:14 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Don't be so dissapointed, "that garbage" lead the league in save % and GAA last year, is top 10 in save % this year, is 23 years old and signed to a 1.2 mil/year deal.

hes a goalie. goalies have minimal trade value in today's NHL. that is a fact. thats nice that he was that great last year and all, but where is he this year? on the bench, for the most part. now that is mostly due to the fact that Thomas is playing out of his mind, but that proves my point even more. goaltending varies so much from year to year.

that is a laughable proposal for Parise. putrid.

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Old
02-01-2011, 09:23 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Lol at not wanting to give up TOR 1st to get one of the best players in the league.

If you want Parise in Boston, you start with two of the following three: Rask, Seguin, TOR 1st. Then we go from there. If you don't like that, then you don't get Parise. I'm not sure why we need a weekly Parise to Boston proposal in which the 3 most valuable assets Boston has aren't involved.
I think the premise is that Jersey would be the ones shopping Parise, and if that`s the case, Boston doesn`t have to give Jersey everything under the sun. They just need to put together a package that will beat everyone elses, and they can do it without including any of those three pieces you mention above.

Personally, I think Jersey won`t be looking to move him, no idea why they would really unless he himself wants out. He doesn`t seem like the type who`d demand a trade.

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02-01-2011, 09:24 AM
  #78
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This is how these threads always go:

Bruins fan: "Heres the immaculate Toronto 1st, our first, Colborne, and Wheeler for one of the best players in hockey."

Devils fan: "NOT A CHANCE LOLZ, you're gonna have to give us Krejci, Seguin, the Toronto 1st, your first and Rask to even sniff him."

Bruins fan: "No chance we're trading Seguin or Rask."

Devils fan: "Then no Parise"

Bruins fan: "Fine"

Devils fan: "Fine"

Bruins fan: "My dad can beat up your dad"

Devils fan: "No he can't"

Bruins fan: "Yes he can"

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Old
02-01-2011, 09:26 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Or instead we could offer sheet $8m and just give up 4 picks and save the farm.
And you`d save the Toronto 1st rounder.

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02-01-2011, 09:27 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
I think the premise is that Jersey would be the ones shopping Parise, and if that`s the case, Boston doesn`t have to give Jersey everything under the sun. They just need to put together a package that will beat everyone elses, and they can do it without including any of those three pieces you mention above.

Personally, I think Jersey won`t be looking to move him, no idea why they would really unless he himself wants out. He doesn`t seem like the type who`d demand a trade.
I agree with you. I don't think he will be moved or shopped, and so the premise of this thread is probably invalid. But us Devils fans are going to have to put up with outlandish Parise proposal threads for another 5 months, because Lou doesn't negotiate during the season.

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02-01-2011, 09:28 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
hes a goalie. goalies have minimal trade value in today's NHL. that is a fact. thats nice that he was that great last year and all, but where is he this year? on the bench, for the most part. now that is mostly due to the fact that Thomas is playing out of his mind, but that proves my point even more. goaltending varies so much from year to year.

that is a laughable proposal for Parise. putrid.
Minimal trade value for goalies- maybe, but Rask is as valuable a goalie as will ever become available based on his age, performance and salary.

Where is he this year? He's playing very well in support of a guy on pace to have an all time great season for a goaltender in the history of the game. . . Where's Parise this year?

Goaltending varies so much? Rask's save % is .008 different from last year. Thomas has lead the league by a solid margin in two of the last three years. How much has Parise's production varied this year?

Rask + a first will be hard value for other teams to match.

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02-01-2011, 09:31 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seguination View Post
To Boston:

Zach Parise

To New Jersey:

Tor 1st '11
Bos 1st '11
Blake Wheeler
Zach Hamil


This is assuming Savard gets put on LTIR, of course. If that's the case then both teams could easily fit this under the cap. The Bruins would also be able to make a followup deal and move Stuart and get a very decent PMD with the cap space that would be left. With Ryder, Recchi + coming of the books next year it would be possible to re-sign Parise.

Parise as far as I know is slated for a mid-march return, and this would be amazing for the playoff run in Boston.

If Parise was to recieve an offer sheet, it would result in 4 first rounders (which is what this is essentially). Toronto's pick I'm predicting is going to be #5, which means the Devils would possibly have 2 top 5 picks this coming draft. This sets NJ up pretty nicely for the future with some high end prospects on ELC's.
Zach Parise

To New Jersey:

Tor 1st '11
Bos 1st '11
RASK

...that may get NJ to at least listen

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Old
02-01-2011, 09:35 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
Zach Parise

To New Jersey:

Tor 1st '11
Bos 1st '11
RASK

...that may get NJ to at least listen
stop putting Rask in the deals, I'm sure Boston wouldn't trade him.
I think the Tor 1st, Kreji, Colborne, and Bos 1st or 2nd would be a good deal. Parise is a RFA to be and currently injured so calm down.....

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02-01-2011, 09:36 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Minimal trade value for goalies- maybe, but Rask is as valuable a goalie as will ever become available based on his age, performance and salary.

Where is he this year? He's playing very well in support of a guy on pace to have an all time great season for a goaltender in the history of the game. . . Where's Parise this year?

Goaltending varies so much? Rask's save % is .008 different from last year. Thomas has lead the league by a solid margin in two of the last three years. How much has Parise's production varied this year?

Rask + a first will be hard value for other teams to match.

youre just not getting it.

goaltending varies a TON from year to year. hell it varies a ton from month to month. look back six months ago, you and all boston fans wanted tim thomas gone for anyhting you could get for him. now, hes going to win the Vezina again.

the goalie that nearly led to the flyers to the cup last year cant find a job. the goalie that DID win the cup last year is having an awful season in SJ.

Rask as a CENTERPIECE for Parise is never happening, im sorry. its awful value. you can find cheap/decent goalies that can fill in anywhere. look at the devils a few years back with scott clemmensen. that guy stinks and he won 25 or so games for us

and Parise is hurt this yea rso i have no idea what in god's name you keep asking about him for...? should we hold it against him that hes hurt?

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02-01-2011, 09:37 AM
  #85
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1) We never send all those assets to the Devils without being SURE the guy is fully healthy. And since we won't be able to be sure, the trade never goes down.

2) The Devils are awful, and with Marty getting close to retirement, they have the potential to be awful for a long time. Why send them 5-6 assets to improve them at many positions?

Let's wait until free agency.

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Old
02-01-2011, 09:41 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
stop putting Rask in the deals, I'm sure Boston wouldn't trade him.
I think the Tor 1st, Kreji, Colborne, and Bos 1st or 2nd would be a good deal. Parise is a RFA to be so calm down.....
Toronto 1st
Boston 1st
Krejci
Prospect that isnt Colborne/Seguin

No way Chiarelli trades his baby from 2008, a top five pick, a top 30 pick and a second/potential first line center for one player.

Aka, probably no deal with Boston and NJD.

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02-01-2011, 09:42 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Minimal trade value for goalies- maybe, but Rask is as valuable a goalie as will ever become available based on his age, performance and salary.

Where is he this year? He's playing very well in support of a guy on pace to have an all time great season for a goaltender in the history of the game. . . Where's Parise this year?

Goaltending varies so much? Rask's save % is .008 different from last year. Thomas has lead the league by a solid margin in two of the last three years. How much has Parise's production varied this year?

Rask + a first will be hard value for other teams to match.
Goalies have no value anymore. Not when scrubs like Leighton, Boucher, and Niemi end up in the Cup Final, teams draft stud goalies in late rounds by accident while many touted first round goalies bust, playoff heroes are traded for minor picks and prospects in the offseason, and viable starters can often be picked up on waivers. The era of money goalies is over. I wouldn't pay a premium salary for a goalie, nor would I draft one with a high pick. And I certainly wouldn't trade a valuable asset for one. Investing in a strong two-way defence is key now.

My point is, Rask does not have nearly the value you seem to think he does. A franchise winger like Parise is worth much more.

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02-01-2011, 09:43 AM
  #88
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and im not saying rask isnt good. hes very good and id love to have him in NJ

but his VALUE is not on par with Parise. not even close.

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02-01-2011, 09:51 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savynquick View Post
1) We never send all those assets to the Devils without being SURE the guy is fully healthy. And since we won't be able to be sure, the trade never goes down.

2) The Devils are awful, and with Marty getting close to retirement, they have the potential to be awful for a long time. Why send them 5-6 assets to improve them at many positions?

Let's wait until free agency.
1) Parise's injury did not require reconstructive surgery, as it was a meniscus injury, not an ACL or MCL. There is no reason to believe he will be any less effective when he comes back. But if that discourages teams from trying to trade for him, that's fine with me.

2) You and I are going to disagree on this one. The Devils are bad this season, but they will not stay in the cellar next season, as long as Lou hires a good coach. As I said, the era of money goalies is over. If Lou can rebuild the defence quickly, the Devils will return to being competitive within two years, regardless of what happens with Marty.

Also, Parise is an RFA this summer, not a UFA. Lou will almost certainly not let him sign a one year deal. I'm thinking three or four years sounds right. If Parise holds out for one, Lou will trade him. Under no circumstances will Parise be a UFA next summer, unless it is with another team.

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02-01-2011, 11:04 AM
  #90
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Honestly, I want Parise re-signed, however, the original proposal on this thread is a interesting offer in my opinion.

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02-01-2011, 11:09 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Goalies have no value anymore. Not when scrubs like Leighton, Boucher, and Niemi end up in the Cup Final, teams draft stud goalies in late rounds by accident while many touted first round goalies bust, playoff heroes are traded for minor picks and prospects in the offseason, and viable starters can often be picked up on waivers. The era of money goalies is over. I wouldn't pay a premium salary for a goalie, nor would I draft one with a high pick. And I certainly wouldn't trade a valuable asset for one. Investing in a strong two-way defence is key now.

My point is, Rask does not have nearly the value you seem to think he does. A franchise winger like Parise is worth much more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
and im not saying rask isnt good. hes very good and id love to have him in NJ

but his VALUE is not on par with Parise. not even close.
Don't think anyone has suggested a deal as being one for one. Rask + a first and/or a prospect was the suggestion.

I also agree that there is no way Parise gets dealt unless NJ is looking to move him. If that is the case, it'd be inetresting to see what kind of package other teams would be willing to part with to pick him up. Rask and a 1st would certainly be competitive IMO.

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02-01-2011, 11:12 AM
  #92
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Rask and Toronto's first, maybe.

Rask and Boston's first, no way.

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02-01-2011, 11:31 AM
  #93
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When has PC ever unloaded talent to aquire someone?

With Savard's status in limbo you can take any thought of Krejci being in any deal is gone.

Rask is untouchable.

Seguin is the most the likely of the group to be available but it is very doubtful.

Toronto's pick has value in any deal for a RFA. What is the value of a probable top 5 pick compared to a bottom 1st round pick? 2 to 1 more like 3 to 1.

For arguements sake then Toronto's pick has a value of 2 1/2 late first round picks combine that with the Bruins first round pick you have very near equal value in regards to draft pick compensation.

So a deal of
Toronto's 1st
Boston's 1st
Wheeler
Spec

Will counter any arguement of not matching the 4 first round pick value.

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02-01-2011, 12:15 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
what are you facepalming me for?

what the hell would be the point of trading Parise for a goalie and a late first round pick? that is awful, awful value for an elite superstar player
I'd facepalm because i dont think Rask and the Leafs 1st is enough.

as long as Chara plays for Boston, their goalies numbers will look better than they really are ...geez, just look at the career he made for Patrick Lalime

I'm not saying either goalie is not good, but, put them on another team (Leafs for example), and their numbers will not be as good

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02-01-2011, 12:17 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
I'd facepalm because i dont think Rask and the Leafs 1st is enough.

as long as Chara plays for Boston, their goalies numbers will look better than they really are ...geez, just look at the career he made for Patrick Lalime

I'm not saying either goalie is not good, but, put them on another team (Leafs for example), and their numbers will not be as good

oh that i can agree with. like i said, Rask and Toronto's first...MAYBEE. maybe. but i wouldnt do it. if its Rask and Boston's first i dont touch it with a ten foot pole

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02-01-2011, 12:31 PM
  #96
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Also, Parise is an RFA this summer, not a UFA. Lou will almost certainly not let him sign a one year deal. I'm thinking three or four years sounds right. If Parise holds out for one, Lou will trade him. Under no circumstances will Parise be a UFA next summer, unless it is with another team.
Your other points were right on track with my thoughts. Just wanted to talk about this one quick-

There has been a ton of talk about Parise on the Boston board (more than there should be at this time honestly) and it all falls around this premise. We can say it is/isn't true, but with the CBA close to expiring and Parise only with a single RFA year remaining, there is talk of him from what I understand looking for only the 1 year deal- and it's not just him, it's a few guys who are in the same boat (and most under the same agent). With the chance of a rollback in contracts, most of them want to make sure their deals are post new CBA so that there are no detrimental affects.

Really, I believe this is the only case that NJ has Parise available. Now what the value of a Parise with a single year contract is before going to FA is a question I really don't even want to tackle- but guys like Bill Ladd will give some ideas with good reason. Agree or disagree, if this is the scenario, the price is a step lower. Higher than Kovalchuk last year, but for those suggesting a straight swap for Yandle for instance, I don't think you get that value (perhaps I'm overrating Yandle, but looking at bang for your buck pre potential rollback contracted RFA vs a guy that will be hitting UFA and looking for post rollback money, the RFA deal is going to win- especially when the kid is another who is highly talented).

Even still, I don't think NJ considers moving him until next year- and that's if he's only on a 1 year deal and things are looking bad for keeping him in the future. That's a much more likely scenario in which Parise is moved. And if that is the case, then a Kovalchuk like return is comparable.

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02-01-2011, 01:02 PM
  #97
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Or instead we could offer sheet $8m and just give up 4 picks and save the farm.
Or just wait 12 months and go after him as a UFA.

Keep our stud goalie, keep our 1st round pick, keep Larsson/Murphy/Couturier, and sign him for straight cash homes.

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02-01-2011, 01:04 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Minimal trade value for goalies- maybe, but Rask is as valuable a goalie as will ever become available based on his age, performance and salary.

Where is he this year? He's playing very well in support of a guy on pace to have an all time great season for a goaltender in the history of the game. . . Where's Parise this year?

Goaltending varies so much? Rask's save % is .008 different from last year. Thomas has lead the league by a solid margin in two of the last three years. How much has Parise's production varied this year?

Rask + a first will be hard value for other teams to match.
I think the 'minimal trade value for goalies' thing is a fad. Last year, Chiarelli called it (low goalie trade values) cyclical, when he was asked why Thomas wasn't dealt. Philly & Chicago won with crappy goalies so the copycats in the league figured any old goalie will do, and now teams that should be powerhouses are hanging by a thread. This summer, there could be as many as 12 teams looking for starting goalies and only 5 or 6 legitimate starters available. Supply/demand.

And if there's any GM in the NHL who understands the value of a franchise goalie it's Lou Lamoriello.

...


And, respectfully, I think what a lot of people are ignoring or glossing over is that Parise wouldn't be traded if there wasn't a problem. Like NJ fans have said many times, he won't be traded for cap reasons. He won't be traded because of a bad year or bad coaching or Kovalchuk's presence. If Parise is happy to sign a long-term deal, then he'll just stay in New Jersey and they'll enjoy him for years to come.

BUT, if Parise is made available, it will be because he either does not want to stay in New Jersey or because he's positioning himself for unrestricted free agency. Maybe he wants to choose where he wants to play. Maybe his agent is worried about salary rollbacks in the next CBA and is advising him to wait until after it's finalized before signing long-term... (Maybe he'll even come back and sign with Jersey.)

But whatever the reason, the acquiring team has to consider Parise a rental, because they would only have control over him for the next 15 months. And that affects his value.

What was the rental price for Kovalchuk? Peanuts. The B's wouldn't part with Rask last year for Kovy straight up. With Parise, you're guaranteed another year, and that adds some value, even if he is injured, but the point is, I don't see many teams offering up three 1st's or two potential franchise talents (like Rask AND the TO 1st) for a guy who could walk next summer. That's my take anyway.

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02-01-2011, 01:07 PM
  #99
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by MaineBigDawg View Post
When has PC ever unloaded talent to aquire someone?

With Savard's status in limbo you can take any thought of Krejci being in any deal is gone.

Rask is untouchable.

Seguin is the most the likely of the group to be available but it is very doubtful.
Toronto's pick has value in any deal for a RFA. What is the value of a probable top 5 pick compared to a bottom 1st round pick? 2 to 1 more like 3 to 1.

For arguements sake then Toronto's pick has a value of 2 1/2 late first round picks combine that with the Bruins first round pick you have very near equal value in regards to draft pick compensation.

So a deal of
Toronto's 1st
Boston's 1st
Wheeler
Spec

Will counter any arguement of not matching the 4 first round pick value.
Stopped reading there. I'd trade Rask 3456 times before trading Seguin, his potential is through the roof.

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02-01-2011, 01:13 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ladd View Post
I think the 'minimal trade value for goalies' thing is a fad. Last year, Chiarelli called it (low goalie trade values) cyclical, when he was asked why Thomas wasn't dealt. Philly & Chicago won with crappy goalies so the copycats in the league figured any old goalie will do, and now teams that should be powerhouses are hanging by a thread. This summer, there could be as many as 12 teams looking for starting goalies and only 5 or 6 legitimate starters available. Supply/demand.

And if there's any GM in the NHL who understands the value of a franchise goalie it's Lou Lamoriello.

...


And, respectfully, I think what a lot of people are ignoring or glossing over is that Parise wouldn't be traded if there wasn't a problem. Like NJ fans have said many times, he won't be traded for cap reasons. He won't be traded because of a bad year or bad coaching or Kovalchuk's presence. If Parise is happy to sign a long-term deal, then he'll just stay in New Jersey and they'll enjoy him for years to come.

BUT, if Parise is made available, it will be because he either does not want to stay in New Jersey or because he's positioning himself for unrestricted free agency. Maybe he wants to choose where he wants to play. Maybe his agent is worried about salary rollbacks in the next CBA and is advising him to wait until after it's finalized before signing long-term... (Maybe he'll even come back and sign with Jersey.)

But whatever the reason, the acquiring team has to consider Parise a rental, because they would only have control over him for the next 15 months. And that affects his value.

What was the rental price for Kovalchuk? Peanuts. The B's wouldn't part with Rask last year for Kovy straight up. With Parise, you're guaranteed another year, and that adds some value, even if he is injured, but the point is, I don't see many teams offering up three 1st's or two potential franchise talents (like Rask AND the TO 1st) for a guy who could walk next summer. That's my take anyway.
t I was just thinking the same thing. You'd figure if anyone knew what it took to bring in top end talent these days it'd be fans in NJ after shelling out a whole lot of not-so-much to bring in Kovalchuk.

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