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Shea Weber to the Maple Leafs

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Old
02-01-2011, 12:28 AM
  #51
b in vancouver
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He's RFA this year isn't he? So you'd be starting at value of 4 1st rounders which is what you'd think it would take to pry him outta Nashville that they wouldn't match. Most likely place those 4 1st somewhere in the middle of the pack. A few good a few worse. (Think of the Oilers 5th next year, 10th year after, 20th, 25th)
I think those examples of Parise or Krejci and TO 1st would be close (as examples) and I don't thin T.O. would have the assets that other deeper organizations could throw out there depending on what Nashville wanted. Unfortunately for Toronto, if there were a bidding war for a player of Weber's ilk (one of the best d-men in the league) they just can't part with as much as other teams could.

It's hard to realize how deep some teams are in this league.
Example as a Bruins fan: Krejci, Wheeler, B's 2011 1st, B's 2012 1st (I'm generally not good at proposals but...) Toronto would have to offer much more then they could part with to match. Just an example but Weber would return a heckuva package if dealt.
Philly, LA, Atlanta, St. Louis, NYI, Montreal etc... could all offer up similar packages and I bet that some team would be more attractive then what T.O. could put together.

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Old
02-01-2011, 01:40 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
ummmmm... it was pretty well covered in Boston. Feel free to go back two years on The Boston Board, there is an entire thread on this subject, and was covered everyday by local media.


It was a freaking soap opera.
As I remember Poile offered 4.5 million for the same amount of years Kessel ended up getting from TOR. Not sure if Kessel actually wanted to come to Nashville but I do know him and Suter were good buddies. From what I remember of the potential Boston-Nashville deal; Boston wanted Wilson and the Preds balked. Then it was rumored the Preds were offering Blum,first, and possibly Radulov's rights.

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Old
02-01-2011, 01:41 AM
  #53
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could not, will not happen

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Old
02-01-2011, 01:46 AM
  #54
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You guys are nuts if you think Toronto could afford to trade Kessel for Weber. This is a team that needs to add around their only legitimate 1st line talent, not trade him away for another defenceman.

Weber might or might not be able to get a better forward / better contract from another team in exchange for Weber as an RFA who is one year away from UFA status, but they won't be getting it from Toronto.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:32 AM
  #55
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[QUOTE=jfried;30576776]You guys are nuts if you think Toronto could afford to trade Kessel for Weber. This is a team that needs to add around their only legitimate 1st line talent, not trade him away for another defenceman.

It would take a lot more than just Kessel for Weber, Kessels value is so low right now I bet 90% of all teams right now wouldn't give Toronto a First round pick for Kessel yet alone Weber one of the NHL's top 5 D-Men. Did anyone see Kessel at the All Star draft he looked like an out of shape Joe from Pros VS Joes. Everyone in this form is talking how Weber may be overrated how about Kessel he is the most overrated player in the NHL! Kessel is the next Wellwood mark my words!

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:35 AM
  #56
Schennanigans
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[QUOTE=Canuck and Bills Fan;30577056]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
You guys are nuts if you think Toronto could afford to trade Kessel for Weber. This is a team that needs to add around their only legitimate 1st line talent, not trade him away for another defenceman.

It would take a lot more than just Kessel for Weber, Kessels value is so low right now I bet 90% of all teams right now wouldn't give Toronto a First round pick for Kessel yet alone Weber one of the NHL's top 5 D-Men. Did anyone see Kessel at the All Star draft he looked like an out of shape Joe from Pros VS Joes. Everyone in this form is talking how Weber may be overrated how about Kessel he is the most overrated player in the NHL! Kessel is the next Wellwood mark my words!

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:37 AM
  #57
TacticalTanev
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Simply put, Toronto cannot afford Weber. He's the equivalent of that 100' 3D TV that is at the back of every electronics store.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:47 AM
  #58
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another Weber thread. hahahahahahaha
I think Weber is going to Toronto FOR SURE! like 100 % INSIDE SOURCES

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:50 AM
  #59
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Schenn/Kadri/Kulemin from a value standpoint, and I don't know if that would even be enough. But Toronto already has their so-called franchise d-man in Phaneuf, so the need isn't there.

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Old
02-01-2011, 04:06 AM
  #60
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck and Bills Fan View Post
It would take a lot more than just Kessel for Weber, Kessels value is so low right now I bet 90% of all teams right now wouldn't give Toronto a First round pick for Kessel yet alone Weber one of the NHL's top 5 D-Men. Did anyone see Kessel at the All Star draft he looked like an out of shape Joe from Pros VS Joes. Everyone in this form is talking how Weber may be overrated how about Kessel he is the most overrated player in the NHL! Kessel is the next Wellwood mark my words!
Nashville couldn't even get Kessel from Toronto for Weber, nevermind Kessel+, that's not neccessarily a relfection of their free market value, that's a reflection of the fact that Kessel at $5.4m would be significantly more valuable to the Leafs than Weber at the money he's going to cost to resign.

If you want to have an insightful conversation instead of trolling, perhaps you should refrain from personal senseless attacks on players. Kessel's ability to score 30 goals with complete shlubs of linemates pretty much destroys your "kyle wellwood theory".

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Old
02-01-2011, 06:40 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Nashville couldn't even get Kessel from Toronto for Weber, nevermind Kessel+, that's not neccessarily a relfection of their free market value, that's a reflection of the fact that Kessel at $5.4m would be significantly more valuable to the Leafs than Weber at the money he's going to cost to resign.

If you want to have an insightful conversation instead of trolling, perhaps you should refrain from personal senseless attacks on players. Kessel's ability to score 30 goals with complete shlubs of linemates pretty much destroys your "kyle wellwood theory".
I have to disagree with you here, I think Weber is far more valuable than Kessel even if Weber makes close to $8 million per season. He would be the best player on the Leafs by a good margin, heck, he would be the best player on a lot of teams.

I don't think the Preds even consider a swap of these guys straight up, it would take a lot more than just Kessel to get him.

You are right that the Leafs wouldn't trade Kessel for him, mainly because they would have to add more and they would have to dismantle their team to get him.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:21 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
Probably one of the most untouchable players on the Preds, but I wonder if they would consider a deal that is good for both teams. The Pred's were interested in Kessel but he ended up in Toronto. Do you think the Pred's would be interested in re visiting a possible deal for Kessel again?

The Leafs do this because our defense despite being one of the highest paid in the league, needs some serious tweaking in order to compete.

It obviously would be more than Kessel going to the Pred's.
grabovski
kessel

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:23 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Nashville couldn't even get Kessel from Toronto for Weber, nevermind Kessel+, that's not neccessarily a relfection of their free market value, that's a reflection of the fact that Kessel at $5.4m would be significantly more valuable to the Leafs than Weber at the money he's going to cost to resign.

If you want to have an insightful conversation instead of trolling, perhaps you should refrain from personal senseless attacks on players. Kessel's ability to score 30 goals with complete shlubs of linemates pretty much destroys your "kyle wellwood theory".
Yeah, it's not like Burke could then turn around and trade Weber to someone for 3 Kessel caliber players or anything

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:36 AM
  #64
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The way I see it, Weber is worth between 2 and 4 first round picks. If the Preds don't trade him before the deadline and don't trade him before free agency an offer sheet would require a team to hand over those picks. That's the starting point. If a bidding war erupts that number is going to rise. So saying that the Preds will be in bad shape if they don't trade Weber doesn't really make sense. Heck if the Leafs were to sign him chances are that those first round picks would end up being lottery picks and in the long run that could be beneficial.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:38 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Weber is overrated. If he was seen nightly in Toronto his flaws would be exposed. The Leafs have enough money tied-up in the blueline. Time to concentrate on spending $ upfront.
I really don't see how any leaf fan can call anyone overrated. Weber is far and away better than any dman they have. He is seen nightly in Nashville and Weber's flaws have been exposed. his only flaw is he is too competitive. That right there doesn't make him a fit in Toronto.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:39 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I really don't see how any leaf fan can call anyone overrated. Weber is far and away better than any dman they have. He is seen nightly in Nashville and Weber's flaws have been exposed. his only flaw is he is too competitive. That right there doesn't make him a fit in Toronto.
Why? It's not like any Leaf players are overrated.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:49 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Shea Weber=Jay Boumesster. Guy is called a stud franchise d-man until he's seen nightly in another market for what he is.

The Devils would be crazy to give up Parise for Weber.
How is Weber-Bowmeester?

Is Bowmeester an olympian?

Has Bowmeester lead his team to the playoffs?

Has Bowmeester even played a playoff game?

Has Bowmeester shot the puck through the net....at the olympics

Can Jay Bowmeester touch 100 mph on his shot?

Is Jay bowmeester captain material?

Does Jay Bowmeester play a big nasty tough game?

I don't see how Shea Weber is Jay Bowmeester at all and would love for you, without insulting anyone, throwing out erroneous statements and use facts show how they are the same player.


It doesn't matter what market a player is in, GMs and scouts know these guys games inside and out. Just because an elitist canadian market doesn't see him play doesn't mean others don't. Wasn't phaneuf called a slow footed d-man with a heavy shot in Calgary? What changed from Calgary to Toronto? nothing, just Leaf fans get to whine about it now instead of laugh at him.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:56 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
How is Weber-Bowmeester?

Is Bowmeester an olympian?

Has Bowmeester lead his team to the playoffs?

Has Bowmeester even played a playoff game?

Has Bowmeester shot the puck through the net....at the olympics

Can Jay Bowmeester touch 100 mph on his shot?

Is Jay bowmeester captain material?

Does Jay Bowmeester play a big nasty tough game?

I don't see how Shea Weber is Jay Bowmeester at all and would love for you, without insulting anyone, throwing out erroneous statements and use facts show how they are the same player.


It doesn't matter what market a player is in, GMs and scouts know these guys games inside and out. Just because an elitist canadian market doesn't see him play doesn't mean others don't. Wasn't phaneuf called a slow footed d-man with a heavy shot in Calgary? What changed from Calgary to Toronto? nothing, just Leaf fans get to whine about it now instead of laugh at him.
I never heard those complaints you mentioned about Boumeester until he arrived in Calgary. He was hyped up for years in Florida as a great d-man.

And I don't quite get the comparison with Phaneuf. He was exposed in a big Canadian market. He didn't come from a sunbelt team and get overrated.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:56 AM
  #69
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not that weber to toronto is remotely possible but any deal would need to involve phaneuf going the other way for cap purposes. seeing as phaneuf makes $6.5 million they could probably spend a little more and just keep weber unless the assumption is he wants out of nashville?

phaneuf + + would be my guess. seeing as we really dont have an abundance of things we could trade we would probably have to take a hit on kadri plus maybe mac?

im not sure if phaneuf, kadri, mac is worth weber? i recognize weber is better individually then any of these guys but collectively they probably would make toronto better. im also not sure what nashvilles needs are? webe-schenn would be good times though,

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Old
02-01-2011, 11:16 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I have to disagree with you here, I think Weber is far more valuable than Kessel even if Weber makes close to $8 million per season. He would be the best player on the Leafs by a good margin, heck, he would be the best player on a lot of teams.

I don't think the Preds even consider a swap of these guys straight up, it would take a lot more than just Kessel to get him.

You are right that the Leafs wouldn't trade Kessel for him, mainly because they would have to add more and they would have to dismantle their team to get him.
Take a look at the Leafs roster -- Weber at $8m may have "more value" than Kessel on the open market, but it wouldn't make Toronto a better team. They're loaded with more than capable defencemen who all make less than what Weber will make. We already need to clear salary off the blueline in the form of Komisarek, not add more.

Weber would be redundant in Toronto, Kessel is just about irreplacable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatlender View Post
Yeah, it's not like Burke could then turn around and trade Weber to someone for 3 Kessel caliber players or anything
You guys are grossly overestimating Weber's open market trade value. He's only got 1 year until UFA -- which means that any substantial discount over UFA money will basically come out of the goodness of his heart. Nashville would problably be hard pressed to find themselves a player who is as good as Kessel, signed for as long as Kessel, is as young as Kessel, and signed for around the same money Kessel makes. All of those factors need to be taken into account. Could they get a guy like Zach Parise? maybe. Is he better than Kessel? problably, but he's going to make a lot more than $5.4m over the next 3 years.

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Old
02-01-2011, 11:37 AM
  #71
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Yeah not worth it from LEafs perspective...I would love to have him and he would easily be our best player...but whatever it took to get him would just cripple our franchise and by the time we got players with him he'd be past his prime
...not that I think Weber has any particular interest in making his career in Toronto, but you realize he's only 25, right?

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Old
02-01-2011, 11:39 AM
  #72
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caaause ...the Leafs are buyers and the Preds sellers...?

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Old
02-01-2011, 11:40 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post

You guys are grossly overestimating Weber's open market trade value. He's only got 1 year until UFA -- which means that any substantial discount over UFA money will basically come out of the goodness of his heart. Nashville would problably be hard pressed to find themselves a player who is as good as Kessel, signed for as long as Kessel, is as young as Kessel, and signed for around the same money Kessel makes. All of those factors need to be taken into account. Could they get a guy like Zach Parise? maybe. Is he better than Kessel? problably, but he's going to make a lot more than $5.4m over the next 3 years.
Yes. His value is horribly overrated.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:12 PM
  #74
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I do agree that some of you are overrating the return Weber would fetch, but anyone who is saying the guy's skill set is overrated disagrees with...oh I don't know... Nick Lidstrom. Weber isn't the best defenseman in the league right now, but Lidstrom has been for a while. When a guy like that only had ONE stipulation going into the ASG and that stipulation was "I get to play with Weber" people ought to take notice.

In any event it doesn't even matter. Weber isn't going anywhere unless he decides to, and even then we can match. Once a team offers a contract Nashville doesn't see the point in matching we will be compensated handsomely. I'd hate to see him go, but we'd still have Suter. Blum, Josi, and Ellis in the pipeline. Either we keep the best pairing in hockey together, or Poile has a ton of draft picks and time to find another Weber.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:17 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Canuck and Bills Fan View Post
Phagoof
Really....?

As for Weber to Toronto, it would take too much out of a team with no depth to land Weber. It would be a backwards move.

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