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Old
02-01-2011, 02:10 PM
  #51
Rodent
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Kaberle?

Seriously?

Perhaps the Kaberle of four years ago, five years ago, etc.

But the "current" Kaberle?

Two goals. None on the power play. Rangers already have that in DeeZee/Gilroy/etc. Replacing one of those guys with Kaberle doesn't improve the Ranger attack. Shall I continue? Fewer than two SOG/game. Half a hit per game.

Half a hit per game?

Rangers need someone to clear the crease. If Tomas is not going to catalyze the offense, not going to clear the crease... remind me again how he helps NYR?

If Tomas Kaberle was the difference between NYR challenging for The Cup or not, then fine... piss the pix and assets necessary to land him on Broadway.

But I don't see it. I don't see how Kaberle is a difference maker at this stage of his career.

Hey. Roy Oswalt lit it up in Philly after the trade, suggesting his average numbers in Houston in recent years might have been more a case of him languishing on a hopeless roster. So perhaps I'm wrong about Kaberle and his pedestrian numbers are a case of being in Toronto, but I don't think so. Not when this is his "walk" year and he's supposed to be impressing potential bosses with just how good a UFA pickup he'd be in July. For someone who's supposed to be mounting a career year, I'm seeing nothing impressive.

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02-01-2011, 02:14 PM
  #52
HAPPY HOUR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Kaberle?

Seriously?

Perhaps the Kaberle of four years ago, five years ago, etc.

But the "current" Kaberle?

Two goals. None on the power play. Rangers already have that in DeeZee/Gilroy/etc. Replacing one of those guys with Kaberle doesn't improve the Ranger attack. Shall I continue? Fewer than two SOG/game. Half a hit per game.

Half a hit per game?

Rangers need someone to clear the crease. If Tomas is not going to catalyze the offense, not going to clear the crease... remind me again how he helps NYR?

If Tomas Kaberle was the difference between NYR challenging for The Cup or not, then fine... piss the pix and assets necessary to land him on Broadway.

But I don't see it. I don't see how Kaberle is a difference maker at this stage of his career.

Hey. Roy Oswalt lit it up in Philly after the trade, suggesting his average numbers in Houston in recent years might have been more a case of him languishing on a hopeless roster. So perhaps I'm wrong about Kaberle and his pedestrian numbers are a case of being in Toronto, but I don't think so. Not when this is his "walk" year and he's supposed to be impressing potential bosses with just how good a UFA pickup he'd be in July. For someone who's supposed to be mounting a career year, I'm seeing nothing impressive.
Nice to hear from ya Rodent. Stop by more will ya??

look forward to your birth-o-meter.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:15 PM
  #53
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MDZ, Dru and EC for Weber.

What? BTW..I should mention I'm drunk.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:20 PM
  #54
RGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Kaberle?

Seriously?

Perhaps the Kaberle of four years ago, five years ago, etc.

But the "current" Kaberle?

Two goals. None on the power play. Rangers already have that in DeeZee/Gilroy/etc. Replacing one of those guys with Kaberle doesn't improve the Ranger attack. Shall I continue? Fewer than two SOG/game. Half a hit per game.

Half a hit per game?

Rangers need someone to clear the crease. If Tomas is not going to catalyze the offense, not going to clear the crease... remind me again how he helps NYR?

If Tomas Kaberle was the difference between NYR challenging for The Cup or not, then fine... piss the pix and assets necessary to land him on Broadway.

But I don't see it. I don't see how Kaberle is a difference maker at this stage of his career.

Hey. Roy Oswalt lit it up in Philly after the trade, suggesting his average numbers in Houston in recent years might have been more a case of him languishing on a hopeless roster. So perhaps I'm wrong about Kaberle and his pedestrian numbers are a case of being in Toronto, but I don't think so. Not when this is his "walk" year and he's supposed to be impressing potential bosses with just how good a UFA pickup he'd be in July. For someone who's supposed to be mounting a career year, I'm seeing nothing impressive.
He's not the same player he was 4 years ago but he's still pretty damn good.

He's on a terrible team but still has 30 points to this point regardless if only 2 of them are goals. We dont need him to score goals so much as we need him to move the puck around on the PP or ES which he can clearly still do.

He scored 49 points last year. He is on pace right now to score 49 points again. He has 7 more points right now then Girardi who is our leader on defense with 23 points.

He had 31 points two seasons ago in which he only played 57 games.
The year before that he had 53
The one before that he had 58
And the one before that he had 67.

Yeah his numbers have gone down but not by much over the years. Sounds to me like he makes for a pretty good rental. That 31 point season two seasons ago has been the only glitch in the last 5 years where he had injury problems during a season.

Oh and by the way he has 19 Power Play assists. So sure maybe he doesnt have the goals but he can definitely move the puck right to gaborik to score those goals.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:31 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Kaberle?

Seriously?

Perhaps the Kaberle of four years ago, five years ago, etc.

But the "current" Kaberle?

Two goals. None on the power play. Rangers already have that in DeeZee/Gilroy/etc. Replacing one of those guys with Kaberle doesn't improve the Ranger attack. Shall I continue? Fewer than two SOG/game. Half a hit per game.

Half a hit per game?

Rangers need someone to clear the crease. If Tomas is not going to catalyze the offense, not going to clear the crease... remind me again how he helps NYR?If Tomas Kaberle was the difference between NYR challenging for The Cup or not, then fine... piss the pix and assets necessary to land him on Broadway.

But I don't see it. I don't see how Kaberle is a difference maker at this stage of his career.

Hey. Roy Oswalt lit it up in Philly after the trade, suggesting his average numbers in Houston in recent years might have been more a case of him languishing on a hopeless roster. So perhaps I'm wrong about Kaberle and his pedestrian numbers are a case of being in Toronto, but I don't think so. Not when this is his "walk" year and he's supposed to be impressing potential bosses with just how good a UFA pickup he'd be in July. For someone who's supposed to be mounting a career year, I'm seeing nothing impressive.
So you are saying this Rangers defense isn't physical enough? Seems to be the one issue that hasen't been an issue this season.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
He's not the same player he was 4 years ago but he's still pretty damn good.

He's on a terrible team but still has 30 points to this point regardless if only 2 of them are goals. We dont need him to score goals so much as we need him to move the puck around on the PP or ES which he can clearly still do.

He scored 49 points last year. He is on pace right now to score 49 points again. He has 7 more points right now then Girardi who is our leader on defense with 23 points.

He had 31 points two seasons ago in which he only played 57 games.
The year before that he had 53
The one before that he had 58
And the one before that he had 67.

Yeah his numbers have gone down but not by much over the years. Sounds to me like he makes for a pretty good rental. That 31 point season two seasons ago has been the only glitch in the last 5 years where he had injury problems during a season.

Oh and by the way he has 19 Power Play assists. So sure maybe he doesnt have the goals but he can definitely move the puck right to gaborik to score those goals.
Even minus the individual stats, the bottom line is he changes the dynamic of the offense. He's more creative, adding another weapon to the offense. Its something that I don't think teams necessarily prepare for when playing the Rangers.

I think he would be an asset if he came here.

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Old
02-01-2011, 02:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres really no reason to pick up a rental - maybe some experience on the blueline, but why? i know theres a few people that think we can really be contenders for the cup, but for the rest of us on planet earth, it makes little sense at this point.

Stand point and see what happens.
It doesn't make a difference what planet you call home as long as you get MSG. Take into account Lundqvist. The playoffs are a whole new ball game. Why not give him some experienced veteran help on the blue line. Especially on defense which is the hardest position to play in the playoffs for younger guys. We're not asking for a package including Andy Sutton and Paul Mara for Kreider, Thomas, Grachev, and a 1st rounder and see if they'll sleep on it.

The Rangers went toe to toe with the Flyers last season and because Jokinen sucks, they went to the SCF. I don't think it's a desperation move like the Islanders made to pick up Ryan Smyth just to show the fans they can make it to the playoffs once per decade. This team is much better than they were, "banged up." By getting some healthy players back, and adding few solid vets on the blue line, why can't we beat these teams in the East?

If I told you, before the playoffs got under way last season, that the Canadians are going to beat the Capitals and the Penguins without home ice advantage and a crappy Scott Gomez on line 2 then you certainly would have assumed that I live 2 galaxies over.

With Lundqvist you got to go for it now! And as mentioned, I don't think people are willing to give up anyone and everyone on the farm.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:00 PM
  #58
RGY
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
It doesn't make a difference what planet you call home as long as you get MSG. Take into account Lundqvist. The playoffs are a whole new ball game. Why not give him some experienced veteran help on the blue line. Especially on defense which is the hardest position to play in the playoffs for younger guys. We're not asking for a package including Andy Sutton and Paul Mara for Kreider, Thomas, Grachev, and a 1st rounder and see if they'll sleep on it.

The Rangers went toe to toe with the Flyers last season and because Jokinen sucks, they went to the SCF. I don't think it's a desperation move like the Islanders made to pick up Ryan Smyth just to show the fans they can make it to the playoffs once per decade. This team is much better than they were, "banged up." By getting some healthy players back, and adding few solid vets on the blue line, why can't we beat these teams in the East?

If I told you, before the playoffs got under way last season, that the Canadians are going to beat the Capitals and the Penguins without home ice advantage and a crappy Scott Gomez on line 2 then you certainly would have assumed that I live 2 galaxies over.

With Lundqvist you got to go for it now! And as mentioned, I don't think people are willing to give up anyone and everyone on the farm.


Why should we come back down to earth? We've been banged up all season. And yet this team has been able to compete with every single team in this league. They were in those games against the Flyers in which they lost. They have added Wolski. They are getting healthy. If they have a solid february, why not us? Why cant we be a team to go deep in the playoffs? Dubinsky, Cally, Staal, Girardi, etc, that group are no longer rookies. They are leaders on this team. Add gaborik and lundqvist to that. Why not us? This isnt a fluke year. We've been led on in the past, we've been misguided. But these players are developed, they are our own homegrown players. I believe in this team, I think they are for real.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:00 PM
  #59
mrjimmyg89
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Better off playing the young players and letting them find out what playoff hockey is see how they react to it. My guess is they will perform well and show that they have what it takes to be NHLers.

Not interested in any of the rentals out there for defense. Give me what we have and maybe get some vet for a conditional pick as the 7th D who can fill in for injury.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:05 PM
  #60
RGY
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Better off playing the young players and letting them find out what playoff hockey is see how they react to it. My guess is they will perform well and show that they have what it takes to be NHLers.

Not interested in any of the rentals out there for defense. Give me what we have and maybe get some vet for a conditional pick as the 7th D who can fill in for injury.
Every year its that mentality with this fan base. Let the young kids play. Let them develop. Let the young kids play in the playoffs if we get there.

Well at some point they arent going to be young players anymore. At some point they are going to be 24-27 year olds. At some point you have to take a shot at the playoffs. You cant be in rebuild/developing mode forever.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:12 PM
  #61
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Only guy there that interests me is kaberle, and I don't see that happening. And anyone else is not a defensive upgrade over gilroy, and certainly not an offensive one so no thanks. Stay pat, there's nothing against drafting twice in the 2nd round.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Every year its that mentality with this fan base. Let the young kids play. Let them develop. Let the young kids play in the playoffs if we get there.

Well at some point they arent going to be young players anymore. At some point they are going to be 24-27 year olds. At some point you have to take a shot at the playoffs. You cant be in rebuild/developing mode forever.
That point is next year.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:14 PM
  #63
mrjimmyg89
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Every year its that mentality with this fan base. Let the young kids play. Let them develop. Let the young kids play in the playoffs if we get there.

Well at some point they arent going to be young players anymore. At some point they are going to be 24-27 year olds. At some point you have to take a shot at the playoffs. You cant be in rebuild/developing mode forever.
Sauer, Mcdonagh, MDZ, and Gilroy have just above 1 year of experince or limited experience in their NHL careers. Should we scrap them cause we should have vets playing in the playoffs instead of playing with who got us here?

What have Kaberle, McCabe, and the other cast of rental dmen done the past couple years in the playoffs? Oh wait, they haven't played in the playoffs either.

Let the kids play, lets see what we have.

EDIT: Those young players when they 24-27 will now have playoff games under their belt if you play them right now. Staal and Girardi will lead them since they got those games under their belt when they were in the same age group as the D we currently have. Funny how that works, isn't it?


Last edited by mrjimmyg89: 02-01-2011 at 03:21 PM.
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Old
02-01-2011, 03:17 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Better off playing the young players and letting them find out what playoff hockey is see how they react to it. My guess is they will perform well and show that they have what it takes to be NHLers.

Not interested in any of the rentals out there for defense. Give me what we have and maybe get some vet for a conditional pick as the 7th D who can fill in for injury.
Again, getting a Kaberle or a Phillips (assuming Sauer/McDonagh are not involved in the deal) would not in any way prevent the young players from playing and gaining playoff experience. I fail to see how
they would be negatively affected.

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Old
02-01-2011, 03:20 PM
  #65
RGY
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Sauer, Mcdonagh, MDZ, and Gilroy have just above 1 year of experince or limited experience in their NHL careers. Should we scrap them cause we should have vets playing in the playoffs instead of playing with who got us here?

What have Kaberle, McCabe, and the other cast of rental dmen done the past couple years in the playoffs? Oh wait, they haven't played in the playoffs either.

Let the kids play, lets see what we have.
All 4 of those guys are not all playing right now. One is sitting. Right now that is MDZ. So dont act like ALL of them are playing and would be getting the short end of the stick if they brought in a rental defenseman. Your not "scrapping" anyone just because you bring in a offensive defenseman to help this team. He replaces just one guy. Maybe its not even one of those guys. Maybe its eminger. And gilroy is 26 years old. I like his play right now but he hasnt been anything special. So whats wrong with replacing him. Dont confuse yourself with this illusion that we MUST let the youth play. Its not like bringing in a Kaberle would throw us off course. In all likelihood he is just replacing gilroy or eminger. If he costs too much then you dont make the trade. Two of sauer, mcD, and mdz will stay on the roster. Maybe we send McD back down. You're being overly dramatic about the youth movement.

And your second statement is just stupid. Sorry, it is. They havent been in the playoffs because they have been on CRAP teams. Just a poor argument on your part. Dont just spit stuff out to make your case when they are not sensible. Kaberle's stats are solid. Be ignorant if you must. That is a guy who will make the team much better, hands down.

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02-01-2011, 03:23 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Kaberle?

Seriously?

Perhaps the Kaberle of four years ago, five years ago, etc.

But the "current" Kaberle?

Two goals. None on the power play. Rangers already have that in DeeZee/Gilroy/etc. Replacing one of those guys with Kaberle doesn't improve the Ranger attack. Shall I continue? Fewer than two SOG/game. Half a hit per game.

Half a hit per game?

Rangers need someone to clear the crease. If Tomas is not going to catalyze the offense, not going to clear the crease... remind me again how he helps NYR?

If Tomas Kaberle was the difference between NYR challenging for The Cup or not, then fine... piss the pix and assets necessary to land him on Broadway.

But I don't see it. I don't see how Kaberle is a difference maker at this stage of his career.

Hey. Roy Oswalt lit it up in Philly after the trade, suggesting his average numbers in Houston in recent years might have been more a case of him languishing on a hopeless roster. So perhaps I'm wrong about Kaberle and his pedestrian numbers are a case of being in Toronto, but I don't think so. Not when this is his "walk" year and he's supposed to be impressing potential bosses with just how good a UFA pickup he'd be in July. For someone who's supposed to be mounting a career year, I'm seeing nothing impressive.
Roy Oswalt and the Phillies aside, what was so awful about Kaberle last season? Yes he was on a crap team. So that means he's at fault for leading the team in scoring during the first half of the season? After he came back from the Olympics, he had something nagging him (probably an injury that kept him sidelined for 20+ games the year before) his production declined, yet he still lead the team in assists and it's not exactly like he has the greatest group of forwards in front of him (swap Mike Green and Kaberle and see who gets picked for the all star game).
He might be having an off year but he plays in Toronto where they talk about hockey and nothing else. It would certainly have a negative effect on your game with trade rumors swirling around day after day. He and his family (luggage in hand) probably jump when ever the phone rings. It's no wonder players haven't been able to win a Cup there for so long.

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02-01-2011, 03:26 PM
  #67
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All 4 of those guys are not all playing right now. One is sitting. Right now that is MDZ. So dont act like ALL of them are playing and would be getting the short end of the stick if they brought in a rental defenseman. Your not "scrapping" anyone just because you bring in a offensive defenseman to help this team. He replaces just one guy. Maybe its not even one of those guys. Maybe its eminger. And gilroy is 26 years old. I like his play right now but he hasnt been anything special. So whats wrong with replacing him. Dont confuse yourself with this illusion that we MUST let the youth play. Its not like bringing in a Kaberle would throw us off course. In all likelihood he is just replacing gilroy or eminger. If he costs too much then you dont make the trade. Two of sauer, mcD, and mdz will stay on the roster. Maybe we send McD back down. You're being overly dramatic about the youth movement.

And your second statement is just stupid. Sorry, it is. They havent been in the playoffs because they have been on CRAP teams. Just a poor argument on your part. Dont just spit stuff out to make your case when they are not sensible. Kaberle's stats are solid. Be ignorant if you must. That is a guy who will make the team much better, hands down.
So, because they are on crap teams, that means they'll be great for our team and style of play. If they are players who can replace who we have, why aren't they doing so great on their team to move them up in the standings?

The whole ****ing offseason people wanted this team to stay the course and build for the future, now all of a sudden people want to bring in over-the-hill defense and break up and young core of defense that has been winning games for us. I don't want to see a guy like Sauer, McD, MDZ, Gilroy, or even Eminger for someone who cannot make an impact on a team where he is playing more minutes and in a prominent role for them.

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02-01-2011, 03:28 PM
  #68
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You know who I am surprised no one has mentioned in this thread?

Tyutin and Hejda. Both would be solid pick-ups for the playoffs. Especially Hejda.

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02-01-2011, 03:38 PM
  #69
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So, because they are on crap teams, that means they'll be great for our team and style of play. If they are players who can replace who we have, why aren't they doing so great on their team to move them up in the standings?

The whole ****ing offseason people wanted this team to stay the course and build for the future, now all of a sudden people want to bring in over-the-hill defense and break up and young core of defense that has been winning games for us. I don't want to see a guy like Sauer, McD, MDZ, Gilroy, or even Eminger for someone who cannot make an impact on a team where he is playing more minutes and in a prominent role for them.
Your argument just gets weaker and weaker.

Yeah actually he would fit in perfectly here. Kaberle is a very, very good puck moving defenseman. Our PP has been abysmal to be nice. They are terrible at carrying the puck up the ice on the PP, and once in the zone they are awful passing the puck around. Kaberle has 28 Assists this year. 19 of those from the PP. But you know more than anyone else, he wouldnt make a difference.

And yeah I forget that since Kaberle isnt superman and cant propel is pathetic toronto team into a playoff spot, we shouldnt look into acquire him. What!!!!??? How dumb does that sound. Gee, he must not be good since he cant be a one man show with below average forwards in front of him and be able to move them up in the standings. Please think before you post.

No one is saying we should trade away the future. Not one person here is saying that. What we are saying is that if you have a chance to add a quality player at a reasonable price then why not? Because you're afraid to deal away any of our young players? Sather isnt dumb for one. So even if he does make a deadline deal for Kaberle it wouldnt include sauer, mdz, or McD. Maybe it would include gilroy. We have Kundratek and Valentenko sitting in hartford. Those two could be trade chips as well. I'd be willing to move one of those two and Gilroy plus a pick and a forward prospect for Kaberle. Thats a reasonable deal.

The fact is, he is far from "over-the-hill" as you CLAIM. He is on pace to have a 50 point season. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about because he would come here and be playing in the same role he did in toronto, which is indeed a "prominent" role. If anything he would be considered the #3 defenseman behind staal and girardi. If you really dont think he'd make an impact then you know nothing about players outside of this organization.

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02-01-2011, 03:40 PM
  #70
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You know who I am surprised no one has mentioned in this thread?

Tyutin and Hejda. Both would be solid pick-ups for the playoffs. Especially Hejda.
Especially Hejda?

How about especially NOT Hejda. He has 9 freakin points. He's 32 years old. This is the type of player who doesnt make an impact. He isnt anything better than what we already have.

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02-01-2011, 03:43 PM
  #71
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No rentals.

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02-01-2011, 03:48 PM
  #72
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Especially Hejda?

How about especially NOT Hejda. He has 9 freakin points. He's 32 years old. This is the type of player who doesnt make an impact. He isnt anything better than what we already have.
You wouldnt expect Hejda to put up points. He is a very good shut-down defenseman who will clear the front of the net and hit. I think he is one of the more underrated shut-down guys in the league.

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02-01-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
You wouldnt expect Hejda to put up points. He is a very good shut-down defenseman who will clear the front of the net and hit. I think he is one of the more underrated shut-down guys in the league.
I'll pass. I know we dont have the nastiest defensemen in the league but they've done a good enough job clearing the crease this season. We have shutdown defensemen in the form of staal and girardi. And we have more than enough stay-at-home/defensive defensemen on the roster. We need a solid offensive puck moving defenseman. If we cant get that then pass.

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02-01-2011, 03:52 PM
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How about Beauchemain or Neil?

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02-01-2011, 04:12 PM
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Well we know how Rodent feels now anyway--by the way he does have a great site--and his op-eds are the best in Rangerland.

Back to what I originally said about Kaberle--he's a puck mover. I didn't say he was a goal scorer. He's been playing for a crap team for a while. The idea in any case is he can move the puck around--he can think on his feet and if he can set up the likes of Kessel and Grabovski on the pwp--he should be able to do even better with Gaborik and Dubinsky. Rangers have more talent for him to work with. The argument for a bone cruncher on the D that Rodent makes is a good one--we need someone like that too--I just think that the puck moving D is a better idea for now--special teams play in the playoffs is crucial. OTOH what it costs to bring Kaberle on board might be a lot more prohibitive than what it would cost to bring the bonecruncher. Have to weigh all that and figure that Kaberle won't be around next year--so how much is too much?. Short term gain vs. long term value--maybe somewhat better odds winning adding Kaberle when you spin the ball on the roulette table.

I don't think the Rangers are really going to win this year even adding Kaberle and even with the team uninjured and intact but my perception of Sather is that he has a gambler's mentality and he's going to spin the wheel. Our best chance IMO still comes from adding a puck moving vet d-man.

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