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Old
02-01-2011, 04:16 PM
  #76
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
How about Beauchemain or Neil?
I could see the Rangers wanting Neil. They could use some added toughness and they tried to sign him a couple years ago. One major roadblock at the moment though is they have maybe too many forwards and it's complicated by 'What to do with Drury?'

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02-01-2011, 04:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Your argument just gets weaker and weaker.

Yeah actually he would fit in perfectly here. Kaberle is a very, very good puck moving defenseman. Our PP has been abysmal to be nice. They are terrible at carrying the puck up the ice on the PP, and once in the zone they are awful passing the puck around. Kaberle has 28 Assists this year. 19 of those from the PP. But you know more than anyone else, he wouldnt make a difference.

And yeah I forget that since Kaberle isnt superman and cant propel is pathetic toronto team into a playoff spot, we shouldnt look into acquire him. What!!!!??? How dumb does that sound. Gee, he must not be good since he cant be a one man show with below average forwards in front of him and be able to move them up in the standings. Please think before you post.

No one is saying we should trade away the future. Not one person here is saying that. What we are saying is that if you have a chance to add a quality player at a reasonable price then why not? Because you're afraid to deal away any of our young players? Sather isnt dumb for one. So even if he does make a deadline deal for Kaberle it wouldnt include sauer, mdz, or McD. Maybe it would include gilroy. We have Kundratek and Valentenko sitting in hartford. Those two could be trade chips as well. I'd be willing to move one of those two and Gilroy plus a pick and a forward prospect for Kaberle. Thats a reasonable deal.

The fact is, he is far from "over-the-hill" as you CLAIM. He is on pace to have a 50 point season. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about because he would come here and be playing in the same role he did in toronto, which is indeed a "prominent" role. If anything he would be considered the #3 defenseman behind staal and girardi. If you really dont think he'd make an impact then you know nothing about players outside of this organization.
Agreed 100%.

If Kaberle can be had for the right price (not Sauer, McDonagh, MDZ), you have to pull the trigger. His ability to transport the puck from the backend is something we haven't seen on this team in a long time. It's something we've seen flashes of from Del Zotto (mostly last year), but I can honestly say that if Del Zotto becomes anything close to the player Kaberle has been over the course of his career, I'm a happy camper.

He's not washed up. He's 32 years old. Not 38. And he's still putting up All-Star quality numbers for a defenseman, on a ****** team. His addition wouldn't make us a favorite or anything, but it would certainly make us better on the back end and on the power play. It would provide a much-needed offensive weapon to a team whose offensive talent is definitely lower than that of Pittsburgh, Philly or Washington.

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02-01-2011, 04:21 PM
  #78
Darrelle Lundqvist
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[QUOTE=NYR Boyler87;30586184]You know who I am surprised no one has mentioned in this thread?

Tyutin and Hejda. Both would be solid pick-ups for the playoffs. Especially Hejda.[/QUOTE

Agreed. I would love to have Tyutin back in a Ranger sweater.

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02-01-2011, 04:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I could see the Rangers wanting Neil. They could use some added toughness and they tried to sign him a couple years ago. One major roadblock at the moment though is they have maybe too many forwards and it's complicated by 'What to do with Drury?'
I think Drury will be a 13th forward during the playoffs, it just makes sense.

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02-01-2011, 04:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nyr5186 View Post
Agreed 100%.

If Kaberle can be had for the right price (not Sauer, McDonagh, MDZ), you have to pull the trigger. His ability to transport the puck from the backend is something we haven't seen on this team in a long time. It's something we've seen flashes of from Del Zotto (mostly last year), but I can honestly say that if Del Zotto becomes anything close to the player Kaberle has been over the course of his career, I'm a happy camper.

He's not washed up. He's 32 years old. Not 38. And he's still putting up All-Star quality numbers for a defenseman, on a ****** team. His addition wouldn't make us a favorite or anything, but it would certainly make us better on the back end and on the power play. It would provide a much-needed offensive weapon to a team whose offensive talent is definitely lower than that of Pittsburgh, Philly or Washington.
If MDZ can become Kaberle than that's one of our best 1st round picks of the decade.

Many people underrate Kaberle, in response to the few (Leafs fans) who overrate him. Kaberle would be a great addition to this team and I'd love to have him on this squad.

Plus he looks like a Czech Dubinsky.

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02-01-2011, 04:33 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Your argument just gets weaker and weaker.

Yeah actually he would fit in perfectly here. Kaberle is a very, very good puck moving defenseman. Our PP has been abysmal to be nice. They are terrible at carrying the puck up the ice on the PP, and once in the zone they are awful passing the puck around. Kaberle has 28 Assists this year. 19 of those from the PP. But you know more than anyone else, he wouldnt make a difference.

And yeah I forget that since Kaberle isnt superman and cant propel is pathetic toronto team into a playoff spot, we shouldnt look into acquire him. What!!!!??? How dumb does that sound. Gee, he must not be good since he cant be a one man show with below average forwards in front of him and be able to move them up in the standings. Please think before you post.

No one is saying we should trade away the future. Not one person here is saying that. What we are saying is that if you have a chance to add a quality player at a reasonable price then why not? Because you're afraid to deal away any of our young players? Sather isnt dumb for one. So even if he does make a deadline deal for Kaberle it wouldnt include sauer, mdz, or McD. Maybe it would include gilroy. We have Kundratek and Valentenko sitting in hartford. Those two could be trade chips as well. I'd be willing to move one of those two and Gilroy plus a pick and a forward prospect for Kaberle. Thats a reasonable deal.

The fact is, he is far from "over-the-hill" as you CLAIM. He is on pace to have a 50 point season. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about because he would come here and be playing in the same role he did in toronto, which is indeed a "prominent" role. If anything he would be considered the #3 defenseman behind staal and girardi. If you really dont think he'd make an impact then you know nothing about players outside of this organization.
Here is your issue. That will not get Kaberle even if he is wanted. Toronto wants forward prospects, yes multiple players, or a forward prospect and a 1st. They have Schenn, Gunnarson, Aulie, Komisarek, Beaucheman, and a couple other D prospects that are about to what Kundratek and V-Tank are for us. Why would they take Gilroy? He has a QO that up until now he hasn't even come close to playing at that level. This isn't NHL11. Be realistic here. Kaberle is not a 3rd D on this team. He is as soft as they come. He would become a PP specialist. Might as well sign MA Bergeron to do that for us, and save all our pieces.

Torts has built an identity for this team, the first identity we have had since before the lockout. Now, you want to bring in a guy who doesn't fit that mold. why can't we do it with what we have? Who did Philly add to its top 4 D or top 6 Forwards last year to get into the playoffs? Ville Leino was not a top 6 forward at the time either. Montreal didn't bring in people. Neither did Chicago, Detroit, San Jose or any other team that went far into the playoffs.

We got to this point for a reason, and its the players playing on this team right now. Kaberle doesn't make us more of a cup contender then we are right now.

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02-01-2011, 04:38 PM
  #82
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I'll wander onto an island by myself and say that IF we are going to pick up a rental in the hopes of winning this year, Kovalev is the one I'd pick up, obviously depending on what it would take to get him. His offensive skills are still elitelike, but he's lost interest because of where he is.

Everyone is free to mock me, but to me he remains a difference maker on the offensive side of the ice, and that is the only thing this team sorely needs. I think he might deliver someone some nice offense come playoff time.
I'll take him for a 2nd rounder.

Could be a nice pick up and financially cheap as well

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02-01-2011, 04:41 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Here is your issue. That will not get Kaberle even if he is wanted. Toronto wants forward prospects, yes multiple players, or a forward prospect and a 1st. They have Schenn, Gunnarson, Aulie, Komisarek, Beaucheman, and a couple other D prospects that are about to what Kundratek and V-Tank are for us. Why would they take Gilroy? He has a QO that up until now he hasn't even come close to playing at that level. This isn't NHL11. Be realistic here. Kaberle is not a 3rd D on this team. He is as soft as they come. He would become a PP specialist. Might as well sign MA Bergeron to do that for us, and save all our pieces.

Torts has built an identity for this team, the first identity we have had since before the lockout. Now, you want to bring in a guy who doesn't fit that mold. why can't we do it with what we have? Who did Philly add to its top 4 D or top 6 Forwards last year to get into the playoffs? Ville Leino was not a top 6 forward at the time either. Montreal didn't bring in people. Neither did Chicago, Detroit, San Jose or any other team that went far into the playoffs.

We got to this point for a reason, and its the players playing on this team right now. Kaberle doesn't make us more of a cup contender then we are right now.
You're right it probably wont get a deal done. But dont include komisarek and beauchemin in that group. Those guys arent part of their young core. Gilroy isnt expensive and maybe if had could make those other two expendable. But still I agree this isnt NHL '11.

Bergeron is not half the player that kaberle is so please dont compare the two.

I'm very aware of the identity torts has built. But how in the world do you know kaberle wouldnt fit in? We need a puck moving defenseman and kaberle is a damn good one. And if he isnt the #3 defenseman here than what is he? He's not in our top 2 if he comes here. And he sure as hell isnt going to be ranked lower than the likes of McD, MDZ, Eminger, etc. The guy can play. Come to grips with it. You can call him soft all you want but the fact is were not bringing him here to be a tough guy. We're bringing him here to work the PP and add an offensive dynamic to our team from the defensive side.

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Old
02-01-2011, 04:48 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
Here is your issue. That will not get Kaberle even if he is wanted. Toronto wants forward prospects, yes multiple players, or a forward prospect and a 1st. They have Schenn, Gunnarson, Aulie, Komisarek, Beaucheman, and a couple other D prospects that are about to what Kundratek and V-Tank are for us. Why would they take Gilroy? He has a QO that up until now he hasn't even come close to playing at that level. This isn't NHL11. Be realistic here. Kaberle is not a 3rd D on this team. He is as soft as they come. He would become a PP specialist. Might as well sign MA Bergeron to do that for us, and save all our pieces.

Torts has built an identity for this team, the first identity we have had since before the lockout. Now, you want to bring in a guy who doesn't fit that mold. why can't we do it with what we have? Who did Philly add to its top 4 D or top 6 Forwards last year to get into the playoffs? Ville Leino was not a top 6 forward at the time either. Montreal didn't bring in people. Neither did Chicago, Detroit, San Jose or any other team that went far into the playoffs.

We got to this point for a reason, and its the players playing on this team right now. Kaberle doesn't make us more of a cup contender then we are right now.
I don't know how to respond to that without saying that you're just flat out wrong.

Bringing in Kaberle would not change the identity of this team unless we traded Dubinsky/Callahan for him (which no one in their right mind would do.

If you want to talk about the logistics of the trade or Kaberle's uncertain future with this team beyond this season, then we can have a real conversation that's rooted in reality. I too would be uneasy about giving up young assets/draft picks for a guy that may sign elsewhere in the offseason. But at the same time, every trade you make is a risk, and you need to give something up in order to get something that you think will benefit your team. In this situation, if I were to make a deal for Kaberle (let's hypothetically say Christensen, Grachev and a 2nd), I would make it with the full intention of trying to bring him back next season. I would NOT give up high assets like that for a guy that I don't intend to keep beyond this season.

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Old
02-01-2011, 04:52 PM
  #85
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huge pass on kaberle. i dont see him as much of an upgrade over last years version of mdz. not a fan of another softy on dee.

prefer to go hard after the only tru 1c that is out there. we need a difference maker if we want to attempt to go deep into the playoffs.

granted dallas says he not for sale but things can change if they slump.

hard to believe they would let him walk after the season.

once he hits fa this summer, im afraid the price becomes prohibitive.

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02-01-2011, 04:52 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
You're right it probably wont get a deal done. But dont include komisarek and beauchemin in that group. Those guys arent part of their young core. Gilroy isnt expensive and maybe if had could make those other two expendable. But still I agree this isnt NHL '11.

Bergeron is not half the player that kaberle is so please dont compare the two.

I'm very aware of the identity torts has built. But how in the world do you know kaberle wouldnt fit in? We need a puck moving defenseman and kaberle is a damn good one. And if he isnt the #3 defenseman here than what is he? He's not in our top 2 if he comes here. And he sure as hell isnt going to be ranked lower than the likes of McD, MDZ, Eminger, etc. The guy can play. Come to grips with it. You can call him soft all you want but the fact is were not bringing him here to be a tough guy. We're bringing him here to work the PP and add an offensive dynamic to our team from the defensive side.
Bergeron ran the PP for Montreal in the playoffs and played as a 7th D, 4th line forward for them. I believe that would be a great scenario for the Rangers. It costs nothing and he would improve the powerplay to the point as kaberle could. It also only costs money.

Komisarek and Beauchmen are going to be in Toronto for the foreseeable future, which as of now is at least next year. They are part of the core they want on their team. Gilroy, Kundratek, V-Tank or any of our d prospects aren't what they are looking for. Toronto needs forwards, top line forward prospects, which we currently have a couple (Stepan, Kreider), but we aren't giving them up for him.

All I'm trying to say is we don't need to go get Kaberle. What needs to be tested is this young defense that has proven so far this season to be strong, not weak. Philly played guys like Coburn, Carle, and other young D in previous playoff years before going to the SCF last year. It's all about seeing what we have and if they learn from it and grow, we'll be better in years to come when these younger D get more experience, and our forwards become better and more skilled then we have right now.

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02-01-2011, 04:53 PM
  #87
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Why should we come back down to earth? We've been banged up all season. And yet this team has been able to compete with every single team in this league. They were in those games against the Flyers in which they lost. They have added Wolski. They are getting healthy. If they have a solid february, why not us? Why cant we be a team to go deep in the playoffs? Dubinsky, Cally, Staal, Girardi, etc, that group are no longer rookies. They are leaders on this team. Add gaborik and lundqvist to that. Why not us? This isnt a fluke year. We've been led on in the past, we've been misguided. But these players are developed, they are our own homegrown players. I believe in this team, I think they are for real.
Exactly, we're talking about (depending on who Toronto wants) possibly adding 1 or 2 veteran defenseman who could help this team win "in the now" because the players (at least) believe they can do it.

But "wait and see what happens" is the tried and true method that people who aren't "down to earth" cannot understand?

I don't get how some people were so concerned about winning while Lundqvist and Gaborik are in their prime years, (and at the same time are never satisfied with who this team drafts) but now apparently do not have have the same attitude. Unless of course it's Richards we're obtaining, as if he's the only player out there who can make the team better.


No one is talking about inking Kaberle to a 10 year deal. There are defensemen who have little experience (if any) in the playoffs. The team has not slid out of a playoff spot as of yet, despite all of the new faces and injuries.

And you're right, Kaberle could be replacing Emminger in the playoffs and even that is taboo? Please!

sbob has mentioned the significance of adding a veteran defense man or more but no one says a word then.

And who are the players we're letting go for Richards who automatically (because, well he's Brad Richards) is bringing the cup to NY this season (or next season? IDK, which season?). No one mentions that. Instead it's easier to ridicule the very notion of bringing in someone who can help the power play get better (can't give up any assets for that ).

Where are the people who said that adding Richards would not guarantee the Rangers a Cup, but go on to add and I quote "we have to go for it now while Lundqvist and Gaborik are in their primes." Or that's out the window while instead, cellar dwelling sounds better?

It's true, the defense men with limited post season experience need to play and find out what the post season is all about. But we have a ballsy team that doesn't give up, and they shouldn't have to bow down to any other team in the East because their own fans think they can't compete.

Tell that to Montreal fans who may not have the best team in the league but these people go ridiculously crazy during every home game and the players feed off of it. They know games aren't won on paper, even if Ovechkin or Crosby are penciled in for the opposing team.

I don't always believe the cliche that "anything can happen in the playoffs," because some teams who get in, are just not that good. But this team is > good and just because we don't have the "elite players" in the league, doesn't mean we have to take a back seat to their teams in the playoffs.

And if there's a move to be made which can improve an already aggressive team (with a seemingly never say die approach) that never gives up (even if some of their own fans "on earth" do) doesn't mean they don't try and make the team better.

I make NO guarantees with addition of Kaberle except that the team will be better, and lets stop waiting until next year when no one knows exactly what the hell it is we're waiting for.

The Flyers were aggressive and picked up Pronger and didn't sit back, tank, and wait for top 5 picks to fall on their laps and lead them to victory. Subsequently, they were rewarded for it, but last year we fought them tooth and nail and it could of just as easily been us.


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02-01-2011, 05:04 PM
  #88
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I hope you did not compare Pronger to Kaberle, cause Pronger adds snarl and someone who can run the PP. Kaberle can do one of those, and I believe the snarl is more needed then a PP QB.

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02-01-2011, 05:04 PM
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Pass on rentals. I think next year should be the year we "go for it."

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02-01-2011, 05:21 PM
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Pass on rentals. I think next year should be the year we "go for it."
I'm thinking they should wait even another year before really "going for it".

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02-01-2011, 05:23 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
I hope you did not compare Pronger to Kaberle, cause Pronger adds snarl and someone who can run the PP. Kaberle can do one of those, and I believe the snarl is more needed then a PP QB.
No, no comparison but still, I do think Kaberle makes the team better because of his ability to skate well, stick handle and get the puck up the ice (especially on the PP) where we need help. Like someone mentioned in an earlier post, Kaberle still has enough left in the tank to help any team in contention. The Rangers haven't had an offensive defenseman who can carry (or make a quick pass) an get the puck up the ice since probably the days of Brian Leetch (and I know Kaberle's not Leetch either).
However, if Toronto is looking for scoring help up front, I don't think we make a good match as trading partners. I want to get better now but it has to be a deal (like the Wolski trade) that works for both parties. Right now I'm not sure if they're on the same page.

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02-01-2011, 05:24 PM
  #92
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Pass on rentals. I think next year should be the year we "go for it."
As long as the Rangers are in the playoff picture, they have as good a chance as anyone. This team is hungry, I could see them going far on desire alone. I don't mind rentals, it doesn't have to be Kaberle, it could be somebody much cheaper.

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02-01-2011, 05:26 PM
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Kaberle because of a no trade contract might go nowhere unless it offers him something over and above his present contract which would mean security beyond this season . Kaberle has Burke in a corner...he might not cost a team much at all as a rental if a team has some space cap wise for him next season . It is a simple process...Burke needs his approval for a trade or he walks for nothing at season end .

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02-01-2011, 05:27 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
I hope you did not compare Pronger to Kaberle, cause Pronger adds snarl and someone who can run the PP. Kaberle can do one of those, and I believe the snarl is more needed then a PP QB.
When you have a D-corp full of snarl and no PPQB, that's arguable.

edit- and i'm not saying we should get Kaberle, i just think he gets sold short a lot of the time.

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02-01-2011, 05:35 PM
  #95
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As long as the Rangers are in the playoff picture, they have as good a chance as anyone. This team is hungry, I could see them going far on desire alone. I don't mind rentals, it doesn't have to be Kaberle, it could be somebody much cheaper.
I mean, to an extent. The 1995 Devils were the 5th seed and won the Cup, the lowest seed to ever win it all. They were 9th overall in the league. Can it happen? Absolutely. Is it realistic? Probably not.

I'll reevaluate right at the deadline. I think our chances will be much clearer. Right now, though, I don't believe we're truly a rental away from winning a Cup.

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02-01-2011, 05:47 PM
  #96
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Kaberle is the only guy that interests me. Phillips is a nice player but somewhat redundant.
I really have trouble with the classification of a solid veteran d-man with almost 100 games of NHL playoff experience redundant.

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02-01-2011, 05:54 PM
  #97
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Roy Oswalt and the Phillies aside, what was so awful about Kaberle last season? Yes he was on a crap team.
1) So was Olli Jokinnen. And he still stunk up the place after we rented him.

2) Let's say you're justified in liking Tomas of 2009-2010.

That's not the Kaberle of 2010-2011.

This is his walk year. He's supposed to be having a good year.

You and others are countering my post by remarking how "not bad" he's played. I don't get it.

3) Y'all are missing the point of my post. If you're going to trade prospects/picks for a rental, shouldn't that rental be a difference-maker?

Argue all you want about Kaberle being on a stinky team. Nothing about him suggests "difference-maker" to NYR.

As for how many helpers he has on the power play.

I haven't done an assay of how many of those helpers were "primary assists". But he's bound to be touching the puck at point before it filters down low. I'm expecting a good portion of those 19 assists were simply him touching the puck second to last. You've got to examine his SOG to understand (from a distance) how he's piloting the power play. 2 SOG per game is not doing it for someone with as many even-strength TOI as he has.

NYR needs someone with a howitzer who will bring a slapper to bear once or twice per power play shift. That's not Kaberle any more. Not in years.

Look. Y'all want Kaberle for a fourth-round selection? Okay. I won't fuss over that. But let's be real about his price versus payback. He's not going for a fourth-rounder. There are many clubs needing help on D this spring. That will inflate the ransom demanded by Burke. And I don't see Tomas as the difference between NYR winning and not winning The Stanley Pie.

I pass. Kaberle is not the solution to NYR's problems. They need a crease-clearer and/or some pop at the point.

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Old
02-01-2011, 05:56 PM
  #98
Rodent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
So, because they are on crap teams, that means they'll be great for our team and style of play.
Thank you, thank you, voice of reason.


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02-01-2011, 06:05 PM
  #99
RGY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I mean, to an extent. The 1995 Devils were the 5th seed and won the Cup, the lowest seed to ever win it all. They were 9th overall in the league. Can it happen? Absolutely. Is it realistic? Probably not.

I'll reevaluate right at the deadline. I think our chances will be much clearer. Right now, though, I don't believe we're truly a rental away from winning a Cup.
Thats all ive been saying all along 2k2. I want to wait til the deadline to make such a move. My argument is that they will have a great february with a healthy lineup. If we do why not see what it takes to get Kaberle. If its too much then pass.

And rodent how is he a voice of reason? On the flip side how could you definitively say that Kaberle wont fit in this system. It works both ways. The guy is a skilled puck moving defenseman. We need that more than "snarl." Toughness hasnt been our problem. I mean cmon already, you guys watch every game seeing as your true blueshirt fans. You then know more than any other fan how many times this team has had chances to turn a game around on the PP this season and were unable to do so. The unsuccessful 5-on-3's. We need a Kaberle much, much more than tough defenseman. Who has bumped lundqvist this year? Who has been a problem in front? Dominic Moore bumped him and the entire rangers defense beat up on him the rest of the game. The issue is the need for an offensive defenseman.

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Old
02-01-2011, 06:44 PM
  #100
GarretJoseph*
 
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Christensen + 3rd for Tim Connolly sounds good to me.

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