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Old
01-28-2011, 10:56 AM
  #76
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Boston worries me more than Tampa..

1) Good D

2) Good Goalie

3) Want to vindicate themselves after we made them part of history last year

In other words they are assembled for a good playoff run. Flyers can still beat them on depth as long as no key injuries.

Tampa always plays well against the Flyers for some reason but their D is still suspect for sustained playoff hockey in a series. Roloson helps them but is not going to be some brick wall.

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Old
01-28-2011, 10:57 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u0007890 View Post
I did misread what you said about the defense in front of Boucher.

We'll agree to disagree on what objective fans think about the top 4...or at least knowledgeable objective fans. The Flyers 1-2 defensemen are certainly up there with the Pens', but the fall-off to 3-4 (Coburn and Carle, I guess) is more pronounced than that of the Pens.
Dude, they aren't "up there with the Pens'", they're demonstrably superior to the Pens. If can't acknowledge that Pronger and Timonen are well ahead of what the Pens are putting out there, then it really isn't worth the discussion. Pens have a nice stable of guys in their top 4, but none of 'em are on Pronger or Timonen's level as of now.

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As for whether Letang is a #1, I'm not sure what your definition is. He doesn't have the size of a Pronger or Keith nor has he demonstrated the consistency over a long period that guys like Lidstrom or others have, but he's played as well as any defenseman in the league most of this season.
Letang is a nice D with very good skating, some good offensive skills, and I like his spunk.

He's not an alpha in this league right now.

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01-28-2011, 10:59 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Boston worries me more than Tampa..

1) Good D

2) Good Goalie

3) Want to vindicate themselves after we made them part of history last year

In other words they are assembled for a good playoff run. Flyers can still beat them on depth as long as no key injuries.

Tampa always plays well against the Flyers for some reason but their D is still suspect for sustained playoff hockey in a series. Roloson helps them but is not going to be some brick wall.
TB isn't going to win 4 rds of playoff hockey this year, but they can beat anyone in a given series, IMO. It's a throw up as far as what is worse to see come playoff time, a really good goalie or a team with really good special teams. TBs PP/PK would make me nervous (especially given our love of taking bad penalties).

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01-28-2011, 11:02 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude, they aren't "up there with the Pens'", they're demonstrably superior to the Pens. If can't acknowledge that Pronger and Timonen are well ahead of what the Pens are putting out there, then it really isn't worth the discussion. Pens have a nice stable of guys in their top 4, but none of 'em are on Pronger or Timonen's level as of now.



Letang is a nice D with very good skating, some good offensive skills, and I like his spunk.

He's not an alpha in this league right now.
On what basis do you claim that Timonen is demonstrably, unquestionably, "it's too dumb to even discuss" better than Letang is right now? Pronger is better than Orpik, sure...not going to argue, although I don't know that it's as wide a gap as you think and the gap is entire due to Pronger's offensive superiority. But there's no basis to argue, at least not as completely conclusory as you are arguing, that Timonen is clearly better than Letang right now.

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Old
01-28-2011, 11:05 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u0007890 View Post
On what basis do you claim that Timonen is demonstrably, unquestionably, "it's too dumb to even discuss" better than Letang is right now? Pronger is better than Orpik, sure...not going to argue, although I don't know that it's as wide a gap as you think and the gap is entire due to Pronger's offensive superiority. But there's no basis to argue, at least not as completely conclusory as you are arguing, that Timonen is clearly better than Letang right now.
Dude, just go back to the Pens board. You are accomplishing nothing here but reminding me why I don't go to the Pens board. Pronger is better than Orpik in every single area of the game.

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01-28-2011, 11:09 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude, just go back to the Pens board. You are accomplishing nothing here but reminding me why I don't go to the Pens board. Pronger is better than Orpik in every single area of the game.
I guess I should have known that a real debate was impossible, even when trying to do it in a respectful fashion. My bad. But since the Flyers are vastly superior on both offense and defense, I just hope the Pens keep from getting swept this spring. Best wishes.

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01-28-2011, 11:09 AM
  #82
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the two craziest games they have had this season have come against tampa and boston

lets see how the NHLs best road team handles tampa on tuesday

i worry about nothing

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Old
01-28-2011, 11:11 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u0007890 View Post
I guess I should have known that a real debate was impossible, even when trying to do it in a respectful fashion. My bad. But since the Flyers are vastly superior on both offense and defense, I just hope the Pens keep from getting swept this spring. Best wishes.
If you are going to argue that the only thing that distinguishes Pronger from Orpik is Pronger's offensive game, then it isn't worth the debate.

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02-01-2011, 09:37 PM
  #84
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Um yeah..needless to say after tonight I'm worried about Tampa.....

What worries me is their coach..he's crafty with that system and getting the most out of that team...also Roloson can steal a series no doubt and of course bad kharma with respect to Gagne may come back to bite us. Then stupid Downie.......and of course throw in Jones who would add to insult to injury with a game winning goal or something.

Hoping Flyers make a statement in a couple of weeks in the last game against them....

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02-01-2011, 09:39 PM
  #85
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We match up really badly against Tampa and Laviolette hasn't adjusted too well to them. I definitely don't think that Tampa will win the Cup, but Tampa is probably our worst matchup possible in the East.

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02-01-2011, 09:40 PM
  #86
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I now fear TB more than Boston.

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02-01-2011, 09:44 PM
  #87
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Its one game after a break. Why would you be worried? If the All-Star game hadn't happened and we were in the full swing of things leading up to this game, we wouldn't have had a problem.

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02-01-2011, 09:46 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Um yeah..needless to say after tonight I'm worried about Tampa.....

What worries me is their coach..he's crafty with that system and getting the most out of that team...also Roloson can steal a series no doubt and of course bad kharma with respect to Gagne may come back to bite us. Then stupid Downie.......and of course throw in Jones who would add to insult to injury with a game winning goal or something.

Hoping Flyers make a statement in a couple of weeks in the last game against them....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
We match up really badly against Tampa and Laviolette hasn't adjusted too well to them. I definitely don't think that Tampa will win the Cup, but Tampa is probably our worst matchup possible in the East.
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I now fear TB more than Boston.

I will NOT be afraid of Tampa Bay. Get better. Beat that team. Doesn't matter how many games you've lost until now. If I was in that lockerroom I could not rest until I beat Tampa Bay. I'd have to. Face those demons. They must beat Tampa Bay...

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02-01-2011, 09:47 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
I will NOT be afraid of Tampa Bay. Get better. Beat that team. Doesn't matter how many games you've lost until now. If I was in that lockerroom I could not rest until I beat Tampa Bay. I'd have to. Face those demons. They must beat Tampa Bay...
I bet NJ fans were saying the same thing last year

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02-01-2011, 10:07 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I bet NJ fans were saying the same thing last year


But the difference between us and NJ is the fact that they can't win a playoff series to save their lives since the lockout. Different teams. Tampa Bay can go **** itself after we man up and crush their souls into the ice.

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02-01-2011, 10:12 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Um yeah..needless to say after tonight I'm worried about Tampa.....

What worries me is their coach..he's crafty with that system and getting the most out of that team...also Roloson can steal a series no doubt and of course bad kharma with respect to Gagne may come back to bite us. Then stupid Downie.......and of course throw in Jones who would add to insult to injury with a game winning goal or something.

Hoping Flyers make a statement in a couple of weeks in the last game against them....
That crazy system he runs is going to look worse in the playoffs I'd assume. No team is going to make drastic changes to the way they play for a single game against them in the regular season, but come playoff time the gameplanning goes way up and teams are going to attempt different things to stop it. Maybe not the Flyers, but I would bet someone does the job.

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02-01-2011, 10:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
That crazy system he runs is going to look worse in the playoffs I'd assume. No team is going to make drastic changes to the way they play for a single game against them in the regular season, but come playoff time the gameplanning goes way up and teams are going to attempt different things to stop it. Maybe not the Flyers, but I would bet someone does the job.
I hope but the guy seems very adaptable..that's always the key in the playoffs. Yzerman picked up a smart coach no doubt...effin *******. Winners always identify other winners....

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Old
02-02-2011, 12:28 AM
  #93
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I know the the Flyers havent beaten the lightning yet I remember in 08 when they all types of problems with the Habs and they eliminated them in 5. Boston still worries me more.

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02-02-2011, 01:18 AM
  #94
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The funny thing is, comparing rosters, no Tampa fan is going to tell you we're the deeper or better team.

Strangely enough, the teams that come out far more aggressive than us and catch defenseman pinching are the teams that beat us. Its the reason we got rolled by Washington the first two meetings of the year (and when we squared them up in the neutral zone, surprise, we won), its the reason we struggle against Carolina. Boucher has worked hard over the last 15 with the team, getting set up defensively a lot better, and the team is playing a lot better with a goaltender they can trust to make a routine save.

I don't know why you guys came out so slow against us or if thats normal and you guys expect to overpower us defensively and sit back or what, but just a few observations. Its kind of like watching two UFC guys go at it, and we're the quick guy that is great at countering... but if we find another guy that is fast and counters well, we're in deep ****.

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02-02-2011, 01:57 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97FlyersKing18 View Post
I understand that they have pretty much the same core as they did when they beat the Flyers in the ECF and 1st round back to back, but their peripheral pieces are majorly downgraded and their defense is not as imposing. That being said, 2 of the top 5 players in the world make them a threat. The only thing that can save the Penguins against the Flyers is Powerplay opportunities.

The Flyers, although having the same core of Carter, Richards, Hartnell, Briere, Timonen, and Coburn, are not the same team the Penguins beat a few years ago in that they have added a more confident Giroux, JVR, an elite 3rd pairing and the HBL line is playing lights out. The Flyers have a much deeper defensive core headed by Pronger and a team with 3 legitimate scoring lines and an elite shutdown 4th.

I would take the Flyers in a high scoring 6-5 game just as I would take them in a tight 2-1 game. This team is playing too good RIGHT NOW, to validate any team taking them in a 7 game series.
On paper we're way better than them. But if games were played on paper, Pittsburgh would be winless since Crosby's been hurt. But they aren't, they're playing quite well....even without Malkin, Letestu, Asham, and Staal for most of tonight they beat a very talented Rangers team.

Pittsburgh gets it. They're in our heads too. They will be until they beat us in the playoffs. Doesn't matter who our core group is...

I agree with Cartsie. I'll always be concerned about the Pens until we take them down in the playoffs.

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02-02-2011, 03:09 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by 97FlyersKing18 View Post
I understand that they have pretty much the same core as they did when they beat the Flyers in the ECF and 1st round back to back, but their peripheral pieces are majorly downgraded and their defense is not as imposing. That being said, 2 of the top 5 players in the world make them a threat. The only thing that can save the Penguins against the Flyers is Powerplay opportunities.

The Flyers, although having the same core of Carter, Richards, Hartnell, Briere, Timonen, and Coburn, are not the same team the Penguins beat a few years ago in that they have added a more confident Giroux, JVR, an elite 3rd pairing and the HBL line is playing lights out. The Flyers have a much deeper defensive core headed by Pronger and a team with 3 legitimate scoring lines and an elite shutdown 4th.

I would take the Flyers in a high scoring 6-5 game just as I would take them in a tight 2-1 game. This team is playing too good RIGHT NOW, to validate any team taking them in a 7 game series.

The Flyers are a truly elite team at both ends of the ice. Decent goaltending is really all thats needed for you guys to probably be the favorite to win it this year. With respect to the Pens, the 07-08 playoff team was certainly stacked with guys like skyora and malone flanking malkin (even tho sykora was later scratched) and hossa with crosby. The year after was certainly downgraded with malkin getting the likes of fedotenko and talbot and crosby with kunitz and guerin. The thing is we won that year with malkin having one of the best playoff performances in recent memory playing with 3rd liners, a then overrated gonchar defensively and a shutdown pair of scuderi and gill who certainly worked well together but not elite independently. This year we have 4 legit shutdown defensemen with letang having a breakout year offensively, martin adding a smooth skating, smart constant stick on the ice poke checking game, michalek being a shot blocking machine which we all know comes in handy come playoff time and orpik not necessarily being in chris pronger's league but being about as good a defensive rock as our salary cap situation allows. My point being we pick up another legit forward for a staal malkin line and crosby comes back in mid season form, we have a very legitimate chance of being an even better team than we were 2 years ago. Most would say we're better now matching our offensive output from years past with an atrocious season by malkin while drastically improving in GAA and shots allowed. I hope its a flyers/pens matchup in the ECF. It'll be a better series than the final in my opinion. Cheers.

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02-02-2011, 06:46 AM
  #97
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After watching last night, Tampa seems like the team to worry about the most if we catch them in the 1st round of the playoffs. The way Tampa plays, I cannot imagine they would last more than 2 rounds in the playoffs.

Lavi did not look all that happy last night after that 2nd goal. I'm positive he will make sure that doesn't happen again.

Overall, I'm more scared of Boston, but I'm not even all that scared cause in a 7 game series, unless we have all sorts of injuries, we will outlast them.

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02-02-2011, 06:59 AM
  #98
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I came on here to ask other Flyers fans why the hell we can't solve Tampa this year and spotted this thread, so I will ask........

"Why the hell can't we solve Tampa this year?!?"

I appreciate this is the regular season, and the post season is a different ball game, but anyone who says they are not worried about a team that comfortably went 3-0 against us last night is deluded.

Be afraid, because unless the Flyers sort out between the pipes, Stamkos et al will definitely run the Flyers close in the post season. They showed that even when we score 7 on them, they can score even more on us.

Bruins are probably one piece away from being a real threat aswell. Even without that piece they probably are.

Flyers fans seem to be getting a bit over confident (understandably), hopefully the players won't suffer with the same affliction post season

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02-02-2011, 09:36 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
The funny thing is, comparing rosters, no Tampa fan is going to tell you we're the deeper or better team.

Strangely enough, the teams that come out far more aggressive than us and catch defenseman pinching are the teams that beat us. Its the reason we got rolled by Washington the first two meetings of the year (and when we squared them up in the neutral zone, surprise, we won), its the reason we struggle against Carolina. Boucher has worked hard over the last 15 with the team, getting set up defensively a lot better, and the team is playing a lot better with a goaltender they can trust to make a routine save.

I don't know why you guys came out so slow against us or if thats normal and you guys expect to overpower us defensively and sit back or what, but just a few observations. Its kind of like watching two UFC guys go at it, and we're the quick guy that is great at countering... but if we find another guy that is fast and counters well, we're in deep ****.
The Flyers seem to be starting a trend of coming out slowly after long layoffs. Last night was another example of it.

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02-02-2011, 09:37 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
The Flyers seem to be starting a trend of coming out slowly after long layoffs. Last night was another example of it.
The two quick breakdowns for goals didn't help matters...

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