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Old
02-01-2011, 08:28 PM
  #101
BBKers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
Christensen + 3rd for Tim Connolly sounds good to me.
Christ for Modin
3rd rounder + middle level prospect for Connolly
Anything (a3rd anyone??!!) for Captain Drury for anything
Reantal D as in Kaberle/Jovocop/McCabe for Gilroy, Washingtons 2nd and Kundratek?
Tyutin for Eminger + ??

Prospal - Connolly - Gabs
Dubinsky - AA - Callahan
Wolski - Stepan - MZA
Feds/Avery - Boyle - Prust

Modin, Feds/Avery

Staal - Rental D*
Tyutin - Girardi
McD/MDZ - Sauer

Next year:
Dubinsky - Richards - Gabs
Wolski - AA - Callahan
Grachev/Kreider - Stepan - MZA
Feds/Avery/Hagelin - Boyle - Prust

Feds/Avery/Hagelin, Boogeyman?

Staal - Girardi
MDZ - Sauer
McD - Tyutin
Vet

??

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Old
02-01-2011, 08:40 PM
  #102
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You can put me in the group that just doesn't get the fuss over Kaberle. He probably won't waive. Burke will ask for too much. I pass here.

In fact, I pass on pretty much every big option. Next year is the year. Go to the playoffs with the guys that got you there. These guys have battled all season long. It wasn't the stars that carried the team, it was the grunts. I think it would be terrible and possibly negative to push one of them aside in favor of an outsider.

I don't want anyone softer brought in for the playoffs either. I understand that would could use some extra scoring but our identity is grit and hard work and come playoff time our mix will be very hard to play against.

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Old
02-01-2011, 11:13 PM
  #103
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I don't get all of the Kaberle fuss. The guy is good but he's not even a top 15 Dman in this league. He's almost as epically overrated as Derek Morris when the Avs gave up an arm and leg to get that guy.

Rentals; cheap cheap UFA veterans that won't cost much and maybe catch Lightning in a bottle a la the Ducks in 2003 (and this Rangers team is better than that Ducks team was). I'm all about Cory Stillman for a mid level prospect or a late round pick. In a 4th line PP only role, he'd be perfect.

Tangauy, Sturm, Williams, etc. guys like that just for the 4th line and PP time.

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Old
02-02-2011, 12:28 AM
  #104
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I hate the idea of getting rentals. If anything, I would want Prospal sent away to another team who needs a rental.

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Old
02-02-2011, 02:51 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
And rodent how is he a voice of reason?
I assumed his statement was sarcastic. I.e., I interpreted his words to mean that it's illogical to conclude Kaberle will play well for NYR just because his track record on this Leaf team has been lackluster.

I agree.

Look. It's possible Kaberle would be better on Broadway. I concede that. That's why I wrote about what happened to Roy Oswalt. But that's where the parallel ends. Oswalt was not at the end of his contract. Kaberle is. Kaberle should not need any more motivation to perform better this season. There is no objective reason to assume Kaberle would be better as a Ranger than as a Leaf. Indeed... my point is that because this is Kaberle's walk year, he should be expected to do everything in his power to prove himself worthy of a big UFA deal this summer. Yet, his numbers are anything but remarkable.

Furthermore, his resistance to waiving his NTC suggests he's happy in Toronto which means there's no excuse for him not to be putting up better numbers.

All the warning signs are there. Yet some folks seem convinced he's worth sacrificing talent/picks just to rent him in a year the Rangers are very unlikely to go all the way.

The time to have rented Kaberle would have been two springs ago, not this season.

It's probably moot anyway.

I'm guessing that Tomas will waive his NTC only to go to a real contender. And while it is not impossible for NYR to pull a 1993 LAK or 2003 Dux and shock the world... if you look at the choices Kaberle might have before March arrives, NYR is not going to be high on the list of potential dance partners. He'll probably want to go to a top-four seed in either conference.

Last I looked, NYR hasn't been a Top Four seed since Colin Campbell stood behind the bench.

It's as I said before.

If his price is a fourth-rounder and nothing more, then fine. Rent Kaberle if you insist. Otherwise, the investment seems too risky to warrant the sacrifice of picks/prospects for someone who (as evidence suggests) is a shell of his former self.

IMO, the Iginla thread made more sense than this one does. And even then, I wondered out loud why NYR fans would want to add a third RW when there are only 60 minutes per game and Gabby and Cally are going to skate 39 of them. How would Iggy get the number of shifts he needs to put up his kinda production?

There's something strange that happens in this place whenever a former All-Star's name is mentioned as being "available". People go giddy here scheming how NYR can obtain said athlete who is on the downside of his career, completely disregarding the practicality of the acquisition, even going so far as to neglect how said veteran would fit into the current system.

Richards at least made sense from the perspective of what NYR needs. Nor is Richards on the decline. But Iggy? Kaberle?

Those are just famous names which certainly would have been great pickups years ago. But they're not "right" for NYR at this time and within the current context. Still, it's the reputation that drives some folks crazy on this forum. And didn't NYR fans learn their lessons about "reputation" acquisitions from 2000 through the lockout?

Jiminy Christmas. Look at how talent-loaded the Rangers were then. The rosters read like an NHL Who's Who every training camp. Yet they failed to even reach the playoffs a single time.

"Oh! Let's get Kovalev back!"

"Vlad Malakhov just won a cup. Let's get him!"

"Anson Carter! Anson Carter!"

And last year it was "Olli Jokinen!"

I resisted.

"Oh, but Rodent. He's on a terrible team in Calgary. All he needs is a change of scenery. You can't judge him by his numbers as a Flame. Trust me. Trade for Olli and you'll see how much better he'll play on Broadway as a rental. And then Slats will want to sign him to a long-term extension."

Where have I heard that before?

"Oh, but Rodent. Kaberle is on a terrible team in Toronto. All he needs is a change of scenery. You can't judge him by his numbers as a Leaf. Trust me. Trade for Tomas and you'll see how much better he'll play on Broadway as a rental. And then Slats will want to sign him to a long-term extension."

Look. I told everyone last year after the deal was made that NYR's real prize was Brandon Prust. That is what made the deal "strategic" for NYR.

How about instead of clamoring for Kaberle someone tell me the Prust equivalent in a Kaberle deal such that NYR comes away with a permanent piece of the strategic puzzle when Tomas signs with some other team on July 1.

Okay. I'll let you have the last word. I have no additional angles to offer.

:8=

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Old
02-02-2011, 02:53 AM
  #106
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NYR will be fine with the current cast

no changes necessary

stay the course, the team grows together and will be improved going into next year

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Old
02-02-2011, 06:46 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
NYR will be fine with the current cast

no changes necessary

stay the course, the team grows together and will be improved going into next year
you're right this is the current cast that will take them into next yr and yrs to come but this is the NHL deadline and when teams have a chance to improve for a playoff run they go for it.

It's not a bad thing that they show the team they are trying to win now by acquiring a vet that will help the PP an area they obviously need help in.

So Sather will do that. He has the cap space. They won't move a future star but they wil move pieces

I mentioned it before but a Derek Morris for Kalinin, Prucha, Dawes deal makes alot of sense given the depth they have with healthy bodies coming back

so find a team with a descent vet that can help the PP and try and move Gilroy, Christensen and a mid round pick and see if it can fetch a McCabe for example. He's currently hurt , has a high cap hit and i'm sure FLA will move him

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Old
02-02-2011, 06:52 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
I hate the idea of getting rentals. If anything, I would want Prospal sent away to another team who needs a rental.
No doubt in my mind this is the way to go....to many forwards when we get healthy. If anything try to grab a pick or two and go in with these guys.

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Old
02-02-2011, 06:55 AM
  #109
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With 6 group II's to re-sign and with the money already committed for next season,the Rangers can't take on money for next season if they plan to being players for the potential free agent center on July 1.

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Old
02-02-2011, 07:20 AM
  #110
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This team needs an effective PP to make any noise in the playoffs (if they make it).
Prospects for a rental won't do. I think the Rangers will make an addition at the deadline.

Is Kaberle on the rangers radar like Dave Maloney suggests should be? Don't know, but if so I'm betting on Slats moving salary as well as a B prospect in order to get him.

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Old
02-02-2011, 07:43 AM
  #111
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One way or another--whether Kaberle or not--it makes sense to bring in another d-man if only as an insurance policy against injury. Dependent on experience etc. that can cover a wide range and can be expensive or not so expensive in terms of assets given up.

The whole thing would be simpler if MDZ had taken a step forward instead of a step back this year. He's the one significant NHL roster player for us who didn't step up. Of course he's still very young.

I'm not sure that the Rangers are tough enough up front and definitely don't think they're tough enough on the blueline. That toughness might come in time with the group we have though.

Some of the reasons Kaberle comes up--there just doesn't seem may options available for a puck moving d-man who you can walk away from next year if you find yourself cash strapped signing your own RFA's. You'd almost have to envision that happening so you really don't want to overpay for him--and the cost is likely to be prohibitive. I'm not sure who else I'd be looking at--I'm less a fan of McCabe or Jovanovski.

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Old
02-02-2011, 08:52 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
Thank you, thank you, voice of reason.

a little over dramatic don't you think? You're making it seem like a divine being is among us to settle important NY Rangers disputes. There's no need to bring "reason" and "logic" into this like we're taking a philosophy course.
It comes down to a Ranger fan's opinion. "Do you think Kaberle would help the Rangers and make them a better team, or not?"
If you notice, I never gave a list of players I would and/or wouldn't give up. Not a single suggestion. At this point, frankly, I think I'm afraid to even go that far.

Just because fans disagree with other fans on a discussion about Tomas Kaberle, doesn't mean one argument is unreasonable and (like you said above) defies logic while the other (or correct) pov is backed by proof with its teachings of logic reigning down upon us.

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Old
02-02-2011, 09:11 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodent View Post
I assumed his statement was sarcastic. I.e., I interpreted his words to mean that it's illogical to conclude Kaberle will play well for NYR just because his track record on this Leaf team has been lackluster.

I agree.

Look. It's possible Kaberle would be better on Broadway. I concede that. That's why I wrote about what happened to Roy Oswalt. But that's where the parallel ends. Oswalt was not at the end of his contract. Kaberle is. Kaberle should not need any more motivation to perform better this season. There is no objective reason to assume Kaberle would be better as a Ranger than as a Leaf. Indeed... my point is that because this is Kaberle's walk year, he should be expected to do everything in his power to prove himself worthy of a big UFA deal this summer. Yet, his numbers are anything but remarkable.

Furthermore, his resistance to waiving his NTC suggests he's happy in Toronto which means there's no excuse for him not to be putting up better numbers.

All the warning signs are there. Yet some folks seem convinced he's worth sacrificing talent/picks just to rent him in a year the Rangers are very unlikely to go all the way.

The time to have rented Kaberle would have been two springs ago, not this season.

It's probably moot anyway.

I'm guessing that Tomas will waive his NTC only to go to a real contender. And while it is not impossible for NYR to pull a 1993 LAK or 2003 Dux and shock the world... if you look at the choices Kaberle might have before March arrives, NYR is not going to be high on the list of potential dance partners. He'll probably want to go to a top-four seed in either conference.

Last I looked, NYR hasn't been a Top Four seed since Colin Campbell stood behind the bench.

It's as I said before.

If his price is a fourth-rounder and nothing more, then fine. Rent Kaberle if you insist. Otherwise, the investment seems too risky to warrant the sacrifice of picks/prospects for someone who (as evidence suggests) is a shell of his former self.

IMO, the Iginla thread made more sense than this one does. And even then, I wondered out loud why NYR fans would want to add a third RW when there are only 60 minutes per game and Gabby and Cally are going to skate 39 of them. How would Iggy get the number of shifts he needs to put up his kinda production?

There's something strange that happens in this place whenever a former All-Star's name is mentioned as being "available". People go giddy here scheming how NYR can obtain said athlete who is on the downside of his career, completely disregarding the practicality of the acquisition, even going so far as to neglect how said veteran would fit into the current system.

Richards at least made sense from the perspective of what NYR needs. Nor is Richards on the decline. But Iggy? Kaberle?

Those are just famous names which certainly would have been great pickups years ago. But they're not "right" for NYR at this time and within the current context. Still, it's the reputation that drives some folks crazy on this forum. And didn't NYR fans learn their lessons about "reputation" acquisitions from 2000 through the lockout?

Jiminy Christmas. Look at how talent-loaded the Rangers were then. The rosters read like an NHL Who's Who every training camp. Yet they failed to even reach the playoffs a single time.

"Oh! Let's get Kovalev back!"

"Vlad Malakhov just won a cup. Let's get him!"

"Anson Carter! Anson Carter!"

And last year it was "Olli Jokinen!"

I resisted.

"Oh, but Rodent. He's on a terrible team in Calgary. All he needs is a change of scenery. You can't judge him by his numbers as a Flame. Trust me. Trade for Olli and you'll see how much better he'll play on Broadway as a rental. And then Slats will want to sign him to a long-term extension."

Where have I heard that before?

"Oh, but Rodent. Kaberle is on a terrible team in Toronto. All he needs is a change of scenery. You can't judge him by his numbers as a Leaf. Trust me. Trade for Tomas and you'll see how much better he'll play on Broadway as a rental. And then Slats will want to sign him to a long-term extension."

Look. I told everyone last year after the deal was made that NYR's real prize was Brandon Prust. That is what made the deal "strategic" for NYR.

How about instead of clamoring for Kaberle someone tell me the Prust equivalent in a Kaberle deal such that NYR comes away with a permanent piece of the strategic puzzle when Tomas signs with some other team on July 1.

Okay. I'll let you have the last word. I have no additional angles to offer.

:8=
Listen I understand your mindset rodent. I understand our past moves. The only one of the examples that you gave that I was for was Kovalev. I'd always take kovalev because he is still a talented offensive player.

But that is neither here nor there. I'm not looking to add a contract that extends past this year. I'm asking why are we not open to adding very good offensive defenseman. For those of you who dont think he is a top 15 defenseman in this league you have no idea what you're talking about. He's playing on a poor team and still has 30 points. He is on pace for 50. That's top 15 statistics.

Maybe all of you who dont want Kaberle didnt watch the game last night. Because if you did you would've have seen another horrific showing from the PP units. We had a 5 minute power play for ****s sake. 5 Minutes! And it was without the Penguins best PKer, Staal who had taken the penalty. Not to mention they had already lost Asham. Crosby, Malkin, Letestu were all not playing. And we only manage one goal? And that was with 40 seconds left on the PP. Thats ****ing pathetic. And thennnnn we had even more chances on the PP in the 3rd. Its like the penguins didnt even mind taking penalties against us. We never look like we have the extra guy out there because we cant move the puck well enough to exploit the other team playing one man short by getting the puck to an open player. Its just awful. If you think Kaberle wouldnt enhance this team's PP greatly then you need to get your heads out of your ***** and start paying attention to whats going on out on the ice. Losing to the penguins in OT shouldnt have happened. Losing to the penguins period, shouldnt have happened.

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Old
02-02-2011, 09:27 AM
  #114
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With 6 group II's to re-sign and with the money already committed for next season,the Rangers can't take on money for next season if they plan to being players for the potential free agent center on July 1.
I'll take Neil past this season(2 more years on his contract). Sather wanted him before and actually offered more money. Move Christensen and Gilroy for Neil and a veteran d-man and I'd be ecstatic.

Dubinsky-Anisimov-Callahan
Wolski-Stepan-MZA
Prospal-Boyle-Gaborik
Neil-Drury/Fedotenko/Avery-Prust


Staal-Girardi
Vet D-man-Sauer
MDZ/Eminger-McDonagh

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Old
02-02-2011, 09:35 AM
  #115
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[QUOTE=Rodent;30584557]
Quote:
Rangers need someone to clear the crease. If Tomas is not going to catalyze the offense, not going to clear the crease... remind me again how he helps NYR?
Have you ever seen Zubov (for example) play? How did he help the Rangers and Stars in the playoffs? At the very least, he's an upgrade (on sheer skating and puck handling ability alone) to Emminger. Or is that stretching too far?

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Old
02-02-2011, 09:39 AM
  #116
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I'm not in the line of thought that Kaberle would help our power play.

I dont think the problem with our PP is lack of a QB, I think it is a fundamental problem with our midset on the ice.

We are a very damn good even strength team. We created chances off the boards, off the rush, drive to the net and give ourselves chances to score. On the power play, we're always looking for that all-star-game perfect pass. And we dont have the Datsyuks and Zetterbergs for that. Someone ends up screwing up the pass of getting handcuffed by the puck.

I want to try Quinnipiac's unique PP strategy that I got to see the other day and i'll outline later.

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Old
02-02-2011, 09:45 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Listen I understand your mindset rodent. I understand our past moves. The only one of the examples that you gave that I was for was Kovalev. I'd always take kovalev because he is still a talented offensive player.

But that is neither here nor there. I'm not looking to add a contract that extends past this year. I'm asking why are we not open to adding very good offensive defenseman. For those of you who dont think he is a top 15 defenseman in this league you have no idea what you're talking about. He's playing on a poor team and still has 30 points. He is on pace for 50. That's top 15 statistics.

Maybe all of you who dont want Kaberle didnt watch the game last night. Because if you did you would've have seen another horrific showing from the PP units. We had a 5 minute power play for ****s sake. 5 Minutes! And it was without the Penguins best PKer, Staal who had taken the penalty. Not to mention they had already lost Asham. Crosby, Malkin, Letestu were all not playing. And we only manage one goal? And that was with 40 seconds left on the PP. Thats ****ing pathetic. And thennnnn we had even more chances on the PP in the 3rd. Its like the penguins didnt even mind taking penalties against us. We never look like we have the extra guy out there because we cant move the puck well enough to exploit the other team playing one man short by getting the puck to an open player. Its just awful. If you think Kaberle wouldnt enhance this team's PP greatly then you need to get your heads out of your ***** and start paying attention to whats going on out on the ice. Losing to the penguins in OT shouldnt have happened. Losing to the penguins period, shouldnt have happened.
We had these arguments in one of the Drury threads. The pwp looks like ****. Why isn't Torts giving Chris--a noted pwp goal scorer in the past--pwp time? To me our crappy pwp is less about the forwards and more about the pointmen. I'm sorry but Staal--our best d-man and whose offense is improving is not particularly adept or creative on the point on the pwp. The occasional end to end goals he scores are great but those don't tend to be the kind you score on pwp's. On the pwp he's more about keeping the play alive than making plays. Ditto for Gilroy. Girardi's a little better IMO but it's not by much. MDZ is our only d-man with a clue but when he's fighting himself we're kind of screwed. So we've been seeing a little of MZA or Gaborik lately. It's a hole. And a good pwp is more often than not the difference between going deep into the playoffs or going home early.

It would be nice if there were such a thing as a Kaberle available for cheap who had a howitzer and played a mean, physical game or for that matter anyone else who could do all those things. As far as cheap goes even the mostly non-agressive Kaberle is not likely to be very cheap--and it might be better just to forget him and take our chances with what we have--aiming more for next year than this year. I don't see Sather doing that and in Kaberle's defense he is a smart and slick puck mover--a player who can think and act instinctively on his feet. He would not be a bad short term addition as long as you did not give up too much for him.

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02-02-2011, 09:46 AM
  #118
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None, no way! Rentals are for contenders.

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02-02-2011, 09:53 AM
  #119
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On Leaf Board there is a link saying Kaberle will not be waiving his No Trade. I imagine they just resign him...............so I actually believe he is off the board

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02-02-2011, 09:58 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
As long as the Rangers are in the playoff picture, they have as good a chance as anyone. This team is hungry, I could see them going far on desire alone. I don't mind rentals, it doesn't have to be Kaberle, it could be somebody much cheaper.
The hockey season is a long season and teams can pile up points by playing harder than their opponents night after night and just having a superior compete level. However, come playoff time everyone's compete level is very high. So, to think the Rangers who are not talented up front and very young on D can go far on desire alone is a pipe dream. I would love to see it but not gonna happen. And they do not have as good a chance as Philly, Pittsburgh, Wash and Boston to name a few. Not to mention some of the powerhouses in the West.

I don't know why people say "we have as good a chance as anyone". That's simply not true.

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Old
02-02-2011, 10:40 AM
  #121
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If it's that far of a long shot to where it's a pipe dream, then what do you say to the people who want Brad Richards and/or wanted Illya Kovalchuk? Would obtaining either one of those players at least take us out of fantasy land?

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02-02-2011, 10:44 AM
  #122
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It's almost comical how many different ideas there are out there on what we as fans think the team needs.

From Heavyweights, to PMD's, to 1st line Centers to Physical D's to veteran forwards to journeymen.

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Old
02-02-2011, 11:14 AM
  #123
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we need a chris phillips but i'll settle for steve montador

2nd + tim kennedy (haha to BUF) or prospect for either.

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02-02-2011, 11:38 AM
  #124
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As a rule I don’t like rentals, I like acquisitions with at least the prospect of retaining the player if they work out.

I don’t see the need why some have to point to the dark years of 98’-04’ as reasons not try to bring in
proven talent from outside. No one is advocating making moves for players who are “finished” like the players acquired during those years. There is only so much talent you can call up from within the organization.

This team has hole that may or may not be addresses over the years as the team comes together.

We desperately need someone to QB the PP. A functioning PP is not a luxury in the NHL, it’s a necessity.

I think we also need a crease clearing physical presence dman.

We need more consistent scoring. Maybe Prospal brings that by waking up Gaborik, but don’t be surprised if Vinny struggles and or gets re injured. The play only gets harder down the stretch.

At the very least a move to bring in C.Neil/Carkner would go a long way to addressing some needs.

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02-02-2011, 11:45 AM
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Lion Hound
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I think it's physical forward for the 4th line...Chris Neil or Jordan Tootoo <--Fresh out of Rehab! Someone to make some noise. A momentum changer. I love the idea od Neil and Avery together if Avery is not playing with Gabby.

Kaberle still would be my number 1 choice as a rental, despite the NMC or whatever I think he could be had. Soft, yes maybe. But...I like the idea of a DMAN quarterbacking the PP. I hate the idea of a forward doing it. It always comes back to bite them.


If Kaberle is not an option, I love the idea of Bieska. Kind of a hybrid. Can play physical, can knock your teeth out, but can also be offensive with a decent shot. Well worth a 2nd rounder, and maybe even a pick. May not even be available, but I think an inquiry on him is a must.

No interest anymore in Phillips after watching the Sens this season. No interest at all.

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