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My Leafs 4 year plan

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07-11-2005, 12:53 PM
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mydnyte
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My Leafs 4 year plan

Unload all the high priced player we have, Tank, and draft high for 4 years ...and by then the UFA age should be 28 and we can afford to sign Heatly, DiPietro, Havlat and Kronwall (just browsing the 2000/2001 draft) along with any developed prospects.

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07-11-2005, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Unload all the high priced player we have, Tank, and draft high for 4 years ...and by then the UFA age should be 28 and we can afford to sign Heatly, DiPietro, Havlat and Kronwall (just browsing the 2000/2001 draft) along with any developed prospects.
That doesn't sound like a bad idea.

I have to agree with Mess though, it is an anti-owner stance.

Owners agenda is to make the most money for themselves, and keep as much of it away from players as they can.

If teams were to purposely tank, fans of most cities would stop going to games, and therefore reduce the amount of revenue owners can pocket.

The pro-players group appreciates the loyalty of the pro-owners, and we will do everything to ensure the pro-owners do not slip into accidentally compromising their position. Above all else the pro-owners must maintain their support of the pro-owners money first position.

I like the tank it scenario, but that is such an anti-owner position that it makes sense for a pro-fan/pro-athlete person like me. I'm a Leaf fan, and I think your plan for the future of the team would be great, but that cannot be used to support a legitimate management strategy.

Pro-owners, cannot by their innate nature, profess support for one team, they must support the league's bottom line. To support only one team, or one management in itself pits that person against another team or management group, and to attack any one part of the body, is to attack the entire body.

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07-11-2005, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Unload all the high priced player we have, Tank, and draft high for 4 years ...and by then the UFA age should be 28 and we can afford to sign Heatly, DiPietro, Havlat and Kronwall (just browsing the 2000/2001 draft) along with any developed prospects.
Perhaps you need to update your motto from pro-owner to ANTI-FAN if this is your real plan.

To me these kinds of strategies is a cop out to me .. If it happens in the course of attempting to win due to injuries or unforeseen circumstances then you live with it. If its planned then its in poor taste for the fans ..

I think teams that attempt these strategies should be fined with the loss of draft picks .. luckily the new CBA floor will help protect against this in part ..


Personally if you are Pro-owner supporter then this is wrong on so many levels and a contradiction. Now that the players have tied their lives to a hard cap and then if multiple teams use this then league Revenue will go down and so will the cap and their pay .. That is the whole reason the players didn't want linkage for the exact strategy you just presented, because the Wirtz and others already adopt this.

That is why a CBA in fact should be designed the encourages teams to increase market revenues or it effects the teams adversely and the bottom line of the owners for focussing on winning the entry draft rather then the Stanley Cup .

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07-11-2005, 01:56 PM
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This is pure pro-owner (though i do need to update that once i think of something catchy) from the Leafs standpoint ...tanking is always cheaper than competing and they can just as easily call it 'developing thier young players' and the Leaf fans (myself included) are crazy enough to still go, still watch and still spend money. ...therefore plenty of profit for the team, and at the 4 year mark, a dynasty in the making. I'm not saying pull a Washington and dump everyone as blatently as they did, but, don't resign vets, pull the youth movement and go from there ...they may not even tank, but stay cheap and young for 4 years and then rebuild with the cream of the crop UFA's.

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07-11-2005, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
This is pure pro-owner (though i do need to update that once i think of something catchy) from the Leafs standpoint ...tanking is always cheaper than competing and they can just as easily call it 'developing thier young players' and the Leaf fans (myself included) are crazy enough to still go, still watch and still spend money. ...therefore plenty of profit for the team, and at the 4 year mark, a dynasty in the making. I'm not saying pull a Washington and dump everyone as blatently as they did, but, don't resign vets, pull the youth movement and go from there ...they may not even tank, but stay cheap and young for 4 years and then rebuild with the cream of the crop UFA's.
You should know that drafting early does not guarantee success at the table .. Aki Berg was drafted 3rd overall in 1995 .. Chad Kilger went #4 .. We even had #1 Berard for a while, showing injuries also play a part ..

All things considering do you want to tank to draft a Berg or Kilger TOP 5 ??

Look at 1996

1 Ottawa Chris Phillips D
2 San Jose Andrei Zyuzin D
3 NY Islanders J.P. Dumont
4 Washington Alexandre Volchkov
5 Dallas Richard Jackman D
6 Edmonton Boyd Devereaux C
7 Buffalo Erik Rasmussen C
8 Boston Johnathan Aitken D
9 Anaheim Ruslan Salei D
10 New Jersey Lance Ward D

You want to tank for these guys?

etc etc ..

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07-11-2005, 02:39 PM
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hire more/better scouts ...Chara 3rd round ...more NHL players in rounds 6/7/8 than 1/2/3 in that draft year.

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07-11-2005, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
hire more/better scouts ...Chara 3rd round ...more NHL players in rounds 6/7/8 than 1/2/3 in that draft year.
Great. We can get those players, through more/better scouts, WITHOUT "tanking" then, can't we?

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07-11-2005, 03:20 PM
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Yea, but we gotta go cheap, or expire all the contracts at the 4 year mark to get the great FA's

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07-11-2005, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Yea, but we gotta go cheap, or expire all the contracts at the 4 year mark to get the great FA's
We could wait for the next CBA, and maybe there'll be a different cap system.

Just play the kids. The easy part for Leafs is anyone under 32 is a kid, so in 2 years playing the kids could easily mean signing those 28 year old UFA's.

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07-11-2005, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
We could wait for the next CBA, and maybe there'll be a different cap system.

Just play the kids. The easy part for Leafs is anyone under 32 is a kid, so in 2 years playing the kids could easily mean signing those 28 year old UFA's.
WOW - UFA really going to drop says TSN Panel

Bob Mackenzie, Gord Miller and Glenn Healy discused some CBA issues ..

According to the panel

Year 1 - reamins at 31 due to all the UFA now

Year 2 - drops to 29

Year 3 - drops to 28

Years 4 - 6 - drops to 27 years old for the final 3 years of the deal ..

Now that is pretty exciting .. news ..

No need to tank at that rate ..

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07-11-2005, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Unload all the high priced player we have, Tank, and draft high for 4 years ...and by then the UFA age should be 28 and we can afford to sign Heatly, DiPietro, Havlat and Kronwall (just browsing the 2000/2001 draft) along with any developed prospects.
The history of the NHL is littered with teams that had high picks four years in a row and didn't get much out of it.

And how enthusiastic do you think free agents will be when they face the possibility of signing with one of the worst teams in the league (which presumably we will be)?

This is a bad plan, and far less likely to work than the current plan. Invest wisely in free agents, draft an develop talent, all with the goal of icing a competitive team year after year.

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07-11-2005, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
Unload all the high priced player we have, Tank, and draft high for 4 years ...and by then the UFA age should be 28 and we can afford to sign Heatly, DiPietro, Havlat and Kronwall (just browsing the 2000/2001 draft) along with any developed prospects.
That's not exactly what I'd call a "plan". It's sounds more like a recipe for disaster.

Hockey teams are not run in this fashion. Very rarely do you see teams "tank" to intentionally finish with a poor record. Only a poorly run organization would even consider this kind of thing.

Then you make it sound like Ferguson, after four years, can just all of a sudden turn them into a winning team at will basically like turning on a tap. It just doesn't work that way. How in the world are you going to lure top free agents to a team that has just spent four years intentionally losing? Did you even consider that?

Besides, it totally goes against the Leafs actual plan which is to build and extend upon the Toronto Maple Leaf brand.

Having the Leafs intentionally lose won't do much for brand building. For one example they're trying to grow their own digital channel. This a huge part of the direction that MLSE is moving as a business entity. How many people are going to be lining up to buy subscriptions to LeafsTV while the team is intentionally trying to not be successful?


Last edited by Leaf Army: 07-11-2005 at 10:37 PM.
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07-11-2005, 10:25 PM
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With the rumour that UFA age is going to be 27 in about 3 or 4 years, it doesn't matter if you tank or not.

Leafs will still be able to buy players, and if other teams revenue goes up, so does the cap, and the Leafs will still be able to pay the most.

Money will still talk.

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07-11-2005, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
With the rumour that UFA age is going to be 27 in about 3 or 4 years, it doesn't matter if you tank or not.

Leafs will still be able to buy players, and if other teams revenue goes up, so does the cap, and the Leafs will still be able to pay the most.

Money will still talk.
I think we are going to see a lot less of our Sens friends around here now ..

With the UFA dropping so steeply Leafs current age may be an advantage ..

With Redden and Chara eligible next July and Hossa the year (pending current contract status) after this upcoming year my be the last run with their core in tact .. The landscape to put a team together and win it all is much smaller then at any time in NHL history..

After few more season from now and Thornton's and Lecavaliers & Luongos become available just as Sundin's contract ends allows us access to young Franchise players to carry the torch ..


Last edited by Mess: 07-11-2005 at 11:06 PM.
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07-11-2005, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
I think we are going to see a lot less of our Sens friends around here now ..

With the UFA dropping so steeply Leafs current age may be an advantage ..

With Redden and Chara eligible next July and Hossa the year after this upcoming year my be the last run with their core in tact .. The landscape to put a team together and win it all is much smaller then at any time in NHL history..

After few more season from now and Thornton's and Lecavaliers & Luongos become available just as Sundin's contract ends allows us access to young Franchise players to carry the torch ..
Joe Thornton Center
Born Jul 2 1979 -- London, ONT
Height 6.04 -- Weight 198

There was talk that UFA will be based on YEAR of birth, and month would be irrelevant, so Joe would be available in 2 years, at age 28.

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07-12-2005, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
With the rumour that UFA age is going to be 27 in about 3 or 4 years, it doesn't matter if you tank or not.

Leafs will still be able to buy players, and if other teams revenue goes up, so does the cap, and the Leafs will still be able to pay the most.

Money will still talk.
In the past, other teams have been able to compete with us in the money-arena, and even more will be able to do so in a cap world. Will every team be capable of paying the top free agents? No, but many will. And the free agents will tend to choose a team that has a reputation as a winner, rather than a team that has shown a willingness to dump good players in favour of losing.

I don't know whether others remember this as clearly as I do, but there has been more than one time period when Toronto has had the reputation of being a place players do not want to come. It could happen again, if we gain a reputation as perpetual losers, a reputation which gathers quickly, trust me.

I appreciate the attraction of getting high draft picks, but that is the compensation for failing to meet the goal of the game, and not the actual goal itself. This is an Eastside Hockey strategy, and not one that any GM would contemplate in real life.

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07-12-2005, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
In the past, other teams have been able to compete with us in the money-arena, and even more will be able to do so in a cap world. Will every team be capable of paying the top free agents? No, but many will. And the free agents will tend to choose a team that has a reputation as a winner, rather than a team that has shown a willingness to dump good players in favour of losing.
Speaking of money its interesting to se how other teams see the new CBA .

Taken for the Florida Sun Sentinel

Quote:
The new CBA reportedly will include a 24 percent rollback for each player plus a floating team-by-team salary cap around a $22 million floor and $38 million ceiling.

The Panthers say they'll be buyers. They'll have to be because they have under contract only six who have played more than 100 games -- defensemen Sean Hill, Branislav Mezei, Eric Cairns, Alexander Karpovtsev and Mathieu Biron and backup goalie Jamie McLennan.

The payroll would be roughly $5.5 million, so to hit the minimum of the salary cap, the Panthers have to spend at least $16.5 million on re-signing players and free agents.

"We have positioned the franchise to be in the market as a buyer," Panthers General Manager Mike Keenan said.
Quite different then we as Leafs fans are taking getting under a Cap .. This makes it sound that Florida has either $16.5 to spend to get above the floor or that is where they are capped out at 54% by receiving assistance .. Keenan in the last line doesn't dispute the figure as his spending allowance..

It also goes on to say "
Goalie Roberto Luongo's contract is up. Their top scoring players at forward and defense in 2003-04, Olli Jokinen and Mike Van Ryn, are also unsigned."

Now with the UFA age dropping if I am Luongo (who is 26 now) agent I would get him a 2 year deal and then he would be a UFA at 28 after the deal.

I wonder how much thought a big market GM like ours would use something like that for planning the team in the future??.

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07-12-2005, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timlap
The history of the NHL is littered with teams that had high picks four years in a row and didn't get much out of it.

And how enthusiastic do you think free agents will be when they face the possibility of signing with one of the worst teams in the league (which presumably we will be)?

This is a bad plan, and far less likely to work than the current plan. Invest wisely in free agents, draft an develop talent, all with the goal of icing a competitive team year after year.
Yea, Pittsburgh, Colorodo(Quebec), and Ottawa come to mind ...Pitt won a few cups, as did Colorodo and Ottawa is one of the top teams ...all the up and coming teams are also former bottom feeders, so I dont see this history you speak of. ...or maybe I was just following the wrong teams.

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07-12-2005, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Now with the UFA age dropping if I am Luongo (who is 26 now) agent I would get him a 2 year deal and then he would be a UFA at 28 after the deal.

I wonder how much thought a big market GM like ours would use something like that for planning the team in the future??.
You will not see many players signing beyond their 27th. birthday.

Oh, those poor teams that tanked only a few years ago and have won nothing, are going to see their lottery picks gone and have nothing to show for it.

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07-12-2005, 09:29 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
You will not see many players signing beyond their 27th. birthday.

Oh, those poor teams that tanked only a few years ago and have won nothing, are going to see their lottery picks gone and have nothing to show for it.
One could almost say that UFA age at 27 is a poor man's "Blow it Up" if I'm not mistaken ..

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07-12-2005, 09:33 AM
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you'll see alot more NBA style 6-10 year deals ...I just hope they take a page from the NFL and have no guaranteed contracts, or major buyout clauses.

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07-12-2005, 09:53 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mydnyte
you'll see alot more NBA style 6-10 year deals ...I just hope they take a page from the NFL and have no guaranteed contracts, or major buyout clauses.
The NHL's own "FINAL OFFER" that it gave before the season began suggested 3 years max in length for any player with only the Stars getting the 3 years..

So I guess while you may not get the long deals you could consider a 1 year or even 2 year deal as close to non-guaranteed as you can get.

Quote:
PLAYER CONTRACTS

-- NHL Minimum Salary increased to $300,000 per year.

-- We believe that in order to ensure that Players are compensated in the fairest possible manner, the parties may have a mutual interest in negotiating over the establishment of an NHL Maximum Salary for individual players. No specific amount is being proposed in this regard.

-- Guarantee terms (1/3 or 2/3 for skill; 100% for injury) remain unchanged.

-- Maximum term of 3 years (with term of all existing contracts "grandfathered").

http://www.nhlcbanews.com/
So it will be interesting to see if this remained or has been extended ..

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