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01-31-2011, 11:14 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think this upcoming off-season will be the one summer where Lombardi will be counted on to make a considerable move. He already locked up Johnson. Doughty and Simmonds remain to be signed and I don't foresee that being a problem.

With Williams, Handzus and Ponikarovsky all becoming UFAs, coupled with Sturm and Harrold, the Kings are going to have many holes to fill up front. I don't expect them to internally replace those players should they depart, so I do think and expect Lombardi to be active this summer.

If he fails to deliver, this team is going to be stuck in a rut and Lombardi will continue his legacy of failing to do anything considerable with a team with high expectations and loads of potential (which is exactly what happened in San Jose).
I agree. He's not going to overpay, Richards has been rumored to either be going to New York or Toronto, he's not coming to LA. By not landing that premiere player the last few years Lombardi now has plenty of money, nothing to spend it on and a team that looks REAL shaky on paper next season. You will see Lombardi's skill tested this offseason.

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01-31-2011, 11:43 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I think this upcoming off-season will be the one summer where Lombardi will be counted on to make a considerable move. He already locked up Johnson. Doughty and Simmonds remain to be signed and I don't foresee that being a problem.

With Williams, Handzus and Ponikarovsky all becoming UFAs, coupled with Sturm and Harrold, the Kings are going to have many holes to fill up front. I don't expect them to internally replace those players should they depart, so I do think and expect Lombardi to be active this summer.

If he fails to deliver, this team is going to be stuck in a rut and Lombardi will continue his legacy of failing to do anything considerable with a team with high expectations and loads of potential (which is exactly what happened in San Jose).
How are you stuck in a rut when all of your best players are under 25 years of age and only getting better?

It would be great to get an established star forward like Richards, but if there isn't one to be had, there isn't one to be had. I don't want to see a ton of young talent traded to get a guy like Iginla or "fill in the blank" that is probably on the downside of his productive years. I've caught that show from our management before and it never ends well.

Now if Lombardi wants to do his homework (he will) and move a young defenseman for a young up and coming winger with equal potential, then I am all for it.

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01-31-2011, 11:47 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
How are you stuck in a rut when all of your best players are under 25 years of age and only getting better?

It would be great to get an established star forward like Richards, but if there isn't one to be had, there isn't one to be had. I don't want to see a ton of young talent traded to get a guy like Iginla or "fill in the blank" that is probably on the downside of his productive years. I've caught that show from our management before and it never ends well.

Now if Lombardi wants to do his homework (he will) and move a young defenseman for a young up and coming winger with equal potential, then I am all for it.
I think for most fans, inluding myself, the goal was to make the Kings into perennnial playoff performers. To make it once, get bounced early then miss the next 2 years (maybe) would be considered stuck in a rut. I think the majority of King fans also see the amount of young talent and nobody is disputing that, it's the amount of waiting that seperates some King fans from others. Nobody is saying dismantle the team, rather make some moves so the Kings are contenders and still have good, young talent at the same time. Having talent and missing the playoffs is no longer acceptable.

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01-31-2011, 11:55 AM
  #104
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I think for most fans, inluding myself, the goal was to make the Kings into perennnial playoff performers. To make it once, get bounced early then miss the next 2 years (maybe) would be considered stuck in a rut. I think the majority of King fans also see the amount of young talent and nobody is disputing that, it's the amount of waiting that seperates some King fans from others. Nobody is saying dismantle the team, rather make some moves so the Kings are contenders and still have good, young talent at the same time. Having talent and missing the playoffs is no longer acceptable.
I am all for making the playoffs. I just don't want any Rick Martin deals.

If we move a middle of the road young defenseman for Penner, that would be fine by me. Opens up the log jam a bit and adds a piece we are missing.

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01-31-2011, 12:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
How are you stuck in a rut when all of your best players are under 25 years of age and only getting better?

It would be great to get an established star forward like Richards, but if there isn't one to be had, there isn't one to be had. I don't want to see a ton of young talent traded to get a guy like Iginla or "fill in the blank" that is probably on the downside of his productive years. I've caught that show from our management before and it never ends well.

Now if Lombardi wants to do his homework (he will) and move a young defenseman for a young up and coming winger with equal potential, then I am all for it.
How long does the team have to wait until those players 25 or younger are playing to their full potential? Lombardi's plan has been to slowly bring along players into bigger roles, unless they are an exceptional talent such as Doughty, and the Kings don't have any other Doughty's coming up.

So what is Lombardi supposed to do, sit on his hands and tout that he has a young core? He's already done that and how much has this team improved as a result? Kopitar still has his ups and downs as a streaky scorer, same with Brown and the entire 2nd line. Simmonds has also slowed down this season, not playing as intense and aggressively as he was last season and Clifford and Lewis are still adapting to the pro game. At what point are we to expect the more experienced players like Kopitar and Brown to take their game to the next level?

Compare the Ducks who also have a young core and have experienced a hell of a lot more success than the Kings ever have. They made some bold moves, acquiring Pronger for Lupul along with prospects and picks, added a good mix of veterans and Burke set that team up to win a Stanley Cup. As soon as they got Pronger, we were all well aware that they were going to advance far and they did. That type of transaction sends a message to your players and to the rest of the league that your club is determined to win a championship.

Developing players is critical, but what is the ultimate goal? To win Cups or to boast that you have a deep prospect pool and brag about prospect grades on HF?

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01-31-2011, 12:17 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I am all for making the playoffs. I just don't want any Rick Martin deals.

If we move a middle of the road young defenseman for Penner, that would be fine by me. Opens up the log jam a bit and adds a piece we are missing.
Yup, I think the majority would be in favor of that. Penner seems like the best fit for the Kings all the way around and he shouldn't cost so much that the Kings take a hit for years to come. Those are the types of deals I think the fans want, find that yound LW with upside who fits into the system yet won't destroy the depth chart at the same time. Just doing nothing, missing the playoffs and being even younger next season is where king fans start gettting upset. We've got to find a way to make the playoffs and hold onto the good, young players at the same time.

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01-31-2011, 12:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
How long does the team have to wait until those players 25 or younger are playing to their full potential? Lombardi's plan has been to slowly bring along players into bigger roles, unless they are an exceptional talent such as Doughty, and the Kings don't have any other Doughty's coming up.

So what is Lombardi supposed to do, sit on his hands and tout that he has a young core? He's already done that and how much has this team improved as a result? Kopitar still has his ups and downs as a streaky scorer, same with Brown and the entire 2nd line. Simmonds has also slowed down this season, not playing as intense and aggressively as he was last season and Clifford and Lewis are still adapting to the pro game. At what point are we to expect the more experienced players like Kopitar and Brown to take their game to the next level?

Compare the Ducks who also have a young core and have experienced a hell of a lot more success than the Kings ever have. They made some bold moves, acquiring Pronger for Lupul along with prospects and picks, added a good mix of veterans and Burke set that team up to win a Stanley Cup. As soon as they got Pronger, we were all well aware that they were going to advance far and they did. That type of transaction sends a message to your players and to the rest of the league that your club is determined to win a championship.

Developing players is critical, but what is the ultimate goal? To win Cups or to boast that you have a deep prospect pool and brag about prospect grades on HF?
The gift of Scott N. didn't hurt the Ducks either. How long does it take guys that are under 25 years of age to reach their full potential? Probably three or four years. Put it this way, Kopitar better be a hell of a lot better player at 26 than he is at 23.

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01-31-2011, 12:52 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
The gift of Scott N. didn't hurt the Ducks either. How long does it take guys that are under 25 years of age to reach their full potential? Probably three or four years. Put it this way, Kopitar better be a hell of a lot better player at 26 than he is at 23.
Certain players like Doughty and Johnson still have lots of room to grow into better players. I think with Kopitar, we are pretty close to seeing him at his best, which is a 80+ point, well-rounded center. He is capable of producing more, but I think he needs to be in the right situation with the right linemates to achieve those numbers.

With Brown, what you see is what you get. While I think Simmonds and Clifford will improve, I don't see them as anything more than checking line forwards, but they will certainly play an important role on a physical third line.

Besides those players, they have a bunch of prospects who at this point are too young or too early in their careers to be counted on. If they wait another three, four, five years for those players to reach their prime. I don't anticipate players or management to wait that long for this team to be considered a serious threat in the NHL.

Every passing season we expect more and more out of this group. If you compare this season to last year, they haven't gotten any better as a team. As individuals, perhaps some players are performing better, but overall, can you say the team has improved?

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01-31-2011, 02:21 PM
  #109
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..... But that would give Dean about 8 years of doing virtually nothing...29 teams could vie for that... The leafs elected to overpay Phaneuf and Kessel and next year(No kaberle) they will have to overpay other bandaids as they fail further and further...
Edited for brevity

"... about 8 years of dong virtually nothing...."

The vast majority of those in the real hockey world have exactly the opposite opinion. DL has rebuilt and restocked this franchise. It now has an opportunity to become elite. Something it never had.

Regarding the Leafs and the "trade now for name players" school of management, which team's roster and record would you prefer?

Who would you have on the ice playing and teaching younger players if not Handzus, Stoll or Smyth?

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01-31-2011, 02:25 PM
  #110
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Edited for brevity

"... about 8 years of dong virtually nothing...."

The vast majority of those in the real hockey world have exactly the opposite opinion. DL has rebuilt and restocked this franchise. It now has an opportunity to become elite. Something it never had.

Regarding the Leafs and the "trade now for name players" school of management, which team's roster and record would you prefer?

Who would you have on the ice playing and teaching younger players if not Handzus, Stoll or Smyth?
Hey! Hey! All they have to do is make the playoffs, then anything can happen.

I am thankful that I haven't heard that line of BS in quite some time.

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01-31-2011, 02:33 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
.... If you compare this season to last year, they haven't gotten any better as a team. As individuals, perhaps some players are performing better, but overall, can you say the team has improved?
Interesting post, but here's a completely different take on the Kings. They have improved dramatically.

Their highs are higher and the lows lower. For some, clearly that's not improvement. For me, it shows how far up the scale this core can go. And judging by three or four games in which they totally dominated elite / top level teams (before the month long regression into temporary mediocrity) then this team has the potential to go deep in the playoffs.

The improvement is in the level they can achieve - the core now believes and understands that's the level they can compete at.

The issue is learning how to maintain that level - no matter what happens on or off ice - shift to shift, period to period, game to game. It's taken a lot of personnel changes and attitude adjustments to experience and play at that elite level. Making it a habit will take more time. But they'll get there.

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01-31-2011, 02:36 PM
  #112
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Interesting post, but here's a completely different take on the Kings. They have improved dramatically.

Their highs are higher and the lows lower. For some, clearly that's not improvement. For me, it shows how far up the scale this core can go. And judging by three or four games in which they totally dominated elite / top level teams (before the month long regression into temporary mediocrity) then this team has the potential to go deep in the playoffs.

The improvement is in the level they can achieve - the core now believes and understands that's the level they can compete at.

The issue is learning how to maintain that level - no matter what happens on or off ice - shift to shift, period to period, game to game. It's taken a lot of personnel changes and attitude adjustments to experience and play at that elite level. Making it a habit will take more time. But they'll get there.
Well done. Patience will be the key.

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01-31-2011, 04:32 PM
  #113
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This year we're inconsistently awesome. Last year we were consistently acceptable.

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01-31-2011, 06:48 PM
  #114
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I know we need a finisher on the wing for Kopitar...but what will Big Lots Lombardi offer to get him???

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01-31-2011, 07:38 PM
  #115
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This year we're inconsistently awesome. Last year we were consistently acceptable.
brevity is the soul of wit.... excellent!

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01-31-2011, 08:01 PM
  #116
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It depresses me every time I see Kopitar at the all star game because I see what he can do when playing with guys like Jokinen and Eriksson....rather than Dwight King.

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02-03-2011, 01:13 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
Edited for brevity

"... about 8 years of dong virtually nothing...."

The vast majority of those in the real hockey world have exactly the opposite opinion. DL has rebuilt and restocked this franchise. It now has an opportunity to become elite. Something it never had.

Regarding the Leafs and the "trade now for name players" school of management, which team's roster and record would you prefer?

Who would you have on the ice playing and teaching younger players if not Handzus, Stoll or Smyth?
First off, if you reread my post and stop looking up words that may make you feel smart... You would have recognized I am in no way a fan of the Leafs strategy at all. You should have recognized I was stating on a smaller scale that LA is doing what the Leafs have done. (Handzus Poni Stoll... remember Dan Cloutier. Alyn Mccauley)
Instead, you wanted to puff out your chest at your own literature. A simple reread and you would have recognized this but you elected not to and dig out your English thesaurus. Breviti. Are you for real? Oh my....
Speaking of the `real hockey world`, have you have ever listened to a proper journalist,(that understands hockey) interview a `real world` hockey player? So let`s stick in the ` real world`....
Brown Parse Kopitar Quick were picked by previous management...
Handzus(4 yr 16million), Clifford, Simmons,Loktionov(good pick), Brad Richards(trade -2nd rnd pick),Smyth(6.2 Mill salary),Ponikarovsky (3.2 - rotting on 4th line), Stoll (3.6 -look at his stats at 3.6 million- are you kidding me???)
Obviously he made some good Draft picks but that happens when we are granted with a multitude of 1st round picks due to constantly finishing in the bottom 5(due to his hiring)...But he also didn`t exactly nail it in the draft either.... Have a look.
Dean Lombardi`s 1st 2nd rnd picks by year since being GM & President
2006 - 1st rnd Johnathan Bernier(12th), Trevor Lewis(17th)
Misses...Giroux 22, Varlamov 23rd.
2nd round - Joe Ryan 48th Misses.... Milan Lucic 50th
2007 1st rnd - Thomas Hickey (4th overall) Misses. Sam Gagner (6th) Logan Couture(9th)
2nd rnd - Oscar Moller(52) Wayne Simmonds(61)
Misses - None I can see
2008 1st rnd - Doughty(2) Teubert(13- for camms- with full year left on contract from arbitration)
Misses- Too many to mention frmo Teubert onwards...
2nd rnd - Voynov Misses...maybe Luke Adam
2009 1st rnd - Brayden Schenn(5)
Misses - too early to tell but I suspect a hell of a lot more than people think... Overrated.IMO strictly... we`ll see what happens
2nd rnd clifford (35)
2010 1st - Derek Forbort Misses- wait a few years
2nd - Tyler Toffoli -Misses- wait a few years..
Do you honestly think that since April 21, 2006 this is satisfactory...what he has been able to achieve is called rebuilding?
On top of this... His big signing`s at first were Handzus(Fresh off major knee surgery- playing 8 games the year before and giving him 16 million dollars for 4 years...Ladislav Nagy, Kyle Calder, Tom Preissing, Brad Stuart, and the steady Jon Klemm...
Do you not remember that we had a winning record before Dean Lombardi was hired(42-35-5 - 89pts) that year... then it took him 4 years(68pts 71pts 79pts 101) to beat where we were before he was hired...
And now, we are at risk of falling back below again Where we were before we hired him. Classic rebuilding!
Do I need to mention Camm`s... Mention Moulson(50 games 29pts)...Bryan Boyle(53games 28 pts) Ted Purcell(52 games 32 pts.. These players have done great since LA... Make ya think that LA doesn`t have the right mix? He`s had years to get it right, has he really gotten it right though?

He never ever had and still doesn`;t have the right mix of players... Open your eyes afterall, we are in the real world.

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02-03-2011, 02:06 AM
  #118
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First off, if you reread my post and stop looking up words that may make you feel smart... You would have recognized I am in no way a fan of the Leafs strategy at all. You should have recognized I was stating on a smaller scale that LA is doing what the Leafs have done. (Handzus Poni Stoll... remember Dan Cloutier. Alyn Mccauley)
Instead, you wanted to puff out your chest at your own literature. A simple reread and you would have recognized this but you elected not to and dig out your English thesaurus. Breviti. Are you for real? Oh my....
Speaking of the `real hockey world`, have you have ever listened to a proper journalist,(that understands hockey) interview a `real world` hockey player? So let`s stick in the ` real world`....
Brown Parse Kopitar Quick were picked by previous management...
Handzus(4 yr 16million), Clifford, Simmons,Loktionov(good pick), Brad Richards(trade -2nd rnd pick),Smyth(6.2 Mill salary),Ponikarovsky (3.2 - rotting on 4th line), Stoll (3.6 -look at his stats at 3.6 million- are you kidding me???)
Obviously he made some good Draft picks but that happens when we are granted with a multitude of 1st round picks due to constantly finishing in the bottom 5(due to his hiring)...But he also didn`t exactly nail it in the draft either.... Have a look.
Dean Lombardi`s 1st 2nd rnd picks by year since being GM & President
2006 - 1st rnd Johnathan Bernier(12th), Trevor Lewis(17th)
Misses...Giroux 22, Varlamov 23rd.
2nd round - Joe Ryan 48th Misses.... Milan Lucic 50th
2007 1st rnd - Thomas Hickey (4th overall) Misses. Sam Gagner (6th) Logan Couture(9th)
2nd rnd - Oscar Moller(52) Wayne Simmonds(61)
Misses - None I can see
2008 1st rnd - Doughty(2) Teubert(13- for camms- with full year left on contract from arbitration)
Misses- Too many to mention frmo Teubert onwards...
2nd rnd - Voynov Misses...maybe Luke Adam
2009 1st rnd - Brayden Schenn(5)
Misses - too early to tell but I suspect a hell of a lot more than people think... Overrated.IMO strictly... we`ll see what happens
2nd rnd clifford (35)
2010 1st - Derek Forbort Misses- wait a few years
2nd - Tyler Toffoli -Misses- wait a few years..
Do you honestly think that since April 21, 2006 this is satisfactory...what he has been able to achieve is called rebuilding?
On top of this... His big signing`s at first were Handzus(Fresh off major knee surgery- playing 8 games the year before and giving him 16 million dollars for 4 years...Ladislav Nagy, Kyle Calder, Tom Preissing, Brad Stuart, and the steady Jon Klemm...
Do you not remember that we had a winning record before Dean Lombardi was hired(42-35-5 - 89pts) that year... then it took him 4 years(68pts 71pts 79pts 101) to beat where we were before he was hired...
And now, we are at risk of falling back below again Where we were before we hired him. Classic rebuilding!
Do I need to mention Camm`s... Mention Moulson(50 games 29pts)...Bryan Boyle(53games 28 pts) Ted Purcell(52 games 32 pts.. These players have done great since LA... Make ya think that LA doesn`t have the right mix? He`s had years to get it right, has he really gotten it right though?

He never ever had and still doesn`;t have the right mix of players... Open your eyes afterall, we are in the real world.
Wow, just, wow, talk about hindsight is 20/20

So, after taking Bernier with the 12th pick, you hit DL on a miss for NOT TAKING VARLAMOV???? WTF would he take Varlamov for when he took Bernier?

As far as Giroux, I just want to make sure I get this right, are you slamming the 15 other teams that didn't take him, or is this just saved for DL? Same can be said about Lucic,

As far as the Hickey pick, are you just stuck on one draft or are you ignoring the fact that we absolutely did not, repeat, did not have one single defenseman prospect in the system at the time of the pick?

Voynov a miss? Huh?

Seriously bud, we get it, you hate DL with a passion, but quit picking and choosing here,

As far as his first big signings, that was to keep things somewhat competitive, they were trying to rebuild and still make the playoffs, the found out that didn't work and blew the entire thing up,

Sorry, still shaking my head at the completely objectivity of your post

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02-03-2011, 02:26 AM
  #119
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my original quoted post was in relation to a ziggy post... duc620 decided to pic from my post so I then gave him my whole viewpoint as to why.... Read up first kid.... I just stated drafted players that contribute now in the NHL... Perhaps in fairness I should have said potential misses...I apologize.
I love Bernier and think he is gonna be #1 for sure(I hope on LA) but I just stated potential misses by our annointed saviour who may just finish off this year where we started when he was hired in 2006...so I figured for the sake of all, i'd throw in some history of his selections...
In all honesty, before I started, I never knew we missed out on Lucic....but that among many other things just add to the fire...for you to omit these facts are your own choice.
As for Hickey... Have you ever heard of trading? Did we have to gamble on a 4th overall on a could be or a never will be? trade perhaps?

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02-03-2011, 02:51 AM
  #120
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my original quoted post was in relation to a ziggy post... duc620 decided to pic from my post so I then gave him my whole viewpoint as to why.... Read up first kid.... I just stated drafted players that contribute now in the NHL... Perhaps in fairness I should have said potential misses...I apologize.
I love Bernier and think he is gonna be #1 for sure(I hope on LA) but I just stated potential misses by our annointed saviour who may just finish off this year where we started when he was hired in 2006...so I figured for the sake of all, i'd throw in some history of his selections...
In all honesty, before I started, I never knew we missed out on Lucic....but that among many other things just add to the fire...for you to omit these facts are your own choice.
As for Hickey... Have you ever heard of trading? Did we have to gamble on a 4th overall on a could be or a never will be? trade perhaps?
Omit what facts? If the guy DL had panned out instead of Lucic, what would your tune be? Seriously, you are slamming a guy that missed a guy that 28 other GMs missed, seriously bud?

Hindsight is 20/20, think about that, you want some history in his selections, since 2006, he has 8 players that have played 10+ games in the NHL, I put it that way because you have Lotkionov and Bernier included in that,

That's an extremely high success rate, but hey, let's go on your theory,

Detroit had 2 chances to get Lucic, he failed, care to call Holland a poor GM?

Chicago and New Jersey in 1997 both took players before Simmonds, guess that makes for a poor GM there as well,

As far as trades, what kind of market do you think there was for the 4th OA pick in what was widely considered a weak draft.

Who do you think we could have gotten in a trade?

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02-03-2011, 09:57 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
First off, if you reread my post and stop looking up words that may make you feel smart... You would have recognized I am in no way a fan of the Leafs strategy at all. You should have recognized I was stating on a smaller scale that LA is doing what the Leafs have done. (Handzus Poni Stoll... remember Dan Cloutier. Alyn Mccauley)
Instead, you wanted to puff out your chest at your own literature. A simple reread and you would have recognized this but you elected not to and dig out your English thesaurus. Breviti. Are you for real? Oh my....
Speaking of the `real hockey world`, have you have ever listened to a proper journalist,(that understands hockey) interview a `real world` hockey player? So let`s stick in the ` real world`....
Brown Parse Kopitar Quick were picked by previous management...
Handzus(4 yr 16million), Clifford, Simmons,Loktionov(good pick), Brad Richards(trade -2nd rnd pick),Smyth(6.2 Mill salary),Ponikarovsky (3.2 - rotting on 4th line), Stoll (3.6 -look at his stats at 3.6 million- are you kidding me???)
Obviously he made some good Draft picks but that happens when we are granted with a multitude of 1st round picks due to constantly finishing in the bottom 5(due to his hiring)...But he also didn`t exactly nail it in the draft either.... Have a look.
Dean Lombardi`s 1st 2nd rnd picks by year since being GM & President
2006 - 1st rnd Johnathan Bernier(12th), Trevor Lewis(17th)
Misses...Giroux 22, Varlamov 23rd.
2nd round - Joe Ryan 48th Misses.... Milan Lucic 50th
2007 1st rnd - Thomas Hickey (4th overall) Misses. Sam Gagner (6th) Logan Couture(9th)
2nd rnd - Oscar Moller(52) Wayne Simmonds(61)
Misses - None I can see
2008 1st rnd - Doughty(2) Teubert(13- for camms- with full year left on contract from arbitration)
Misses- Too many to mention frmo Teubert onwards...
2nd rnd - Voynov Misses...maybe Luke Adam
2009 1st rnd - Brayden Schenn(5)
Misses - too early to tell but I suspect a hell of a lot more than people think... Overrated.IMO strictly... we`ll see what happens
2nd rnd clifford (35)
2010 1st - Derek Forbort Misses- wait a few years
2nd - Tyler Toffoli -Misses- wait a few years..
Do you honestly think that since April 21, 2006 this is satisfactory...what he has been able to achieve is called rebuilding?
On top of this... His big signing`s at first were Handzus(Fresh off major knee surgery- playing 8 games the year before and giving him 16 million dollars for 4 years...Ladislav Nagy, Kyle Calder, Tom Preissing, Brad Stuart, and the steady Jon Klemm...
Do you not remember that we had a winning record before Dean Lombardi was hired(42-35-5 - 89pts) that year... then it took him 4 years(68pts 71pts 79pts 101) to beat where we were before he was hired...
And now, we are at risk of falling back below again Where we were before we hired him. Classic rebuilding!
Do I need to mention Camm`s... Mention Moulson(50 games 29pts)...Bryan Boyle(53games 28 pts) Ted Purcell(52 games 32 pts.. These players have done great since LA... Make ya think that LA doesn`t have the right mix? He`s had years to get it right, has he really gotten it right though?

He never ever had and still doesn`;t have the right mix of players... Open your eyes afterall, we are in the real world.
Since the 2006 draft, Kings draft picks have played a combined total of 685 games. Only five other teams can boast having more games played by their draft picks: St. Louis (775), Columbus (761), Boston (733), New York Islanders (717) and Toronto (715).

Boston really deserves an asterik on that since that counts both Phil Kessel and Tyler Seguin, and Boston wouldn't have Tyler Seguin without having Kessel sign in Toronto, but whatever. Without Seguin's games this year, we'd be ahead of Boston too.

Of those five teams, the only one which is really any shock is Toronto, since all the other teams have drafted as high as, and often higher than, the Kings. Toronto is only boosted by a 2006 draft where Jiri Tlusty, Nikolai Kulemin, James Reimer, Korbinian Holzer and Viktor Stalberg all have played so far, though only Kulemin has established himself as an above average NHLer. As well, all of these teams' first pick in 2006 was a forward or D-man, whereas LA drafted Bernier. If they have drafted the very next player in the 2006 draft, forward Bryan Little, LA draft picks would have played 916 games, easily the best total in the entire NHL.

I'm not saying we've been perfect at the draft, but DL and company has been well above average to say the least and to bash him on his drafting record is just wrong.

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Old
02-03-2011, 10:12 AM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
So, after taking Bernier with the 12th pick, you hit DL on a miss for NOT TAKING VARLAMOV???? WTF would he take Varlamov for when he took Bernier?
I also think Hollywood's post is all hindsight and not really looking at the success the Kings have had. Not to mention the players that are in the minors right now that would make quite a few other teams, we have players on the Kings that have played steady roles for this club the past few years not too far out of their draft year.

I quoted sjmay here because I wanted to also point out the Varlamov mention. Why in the world would a team draft 2 goalies, especially after one as highly touted as Bernier?

You also have to point out, the year before Bernier was picked, we picked Quick with the 72nd pick and the SAME year JB was picked, we picked Zatkoff at 74th overall. That's 3 goalies in 2 years.

Also, Varlamov isn't doing well in Washington right now. Many people in the media have mentioned that the Caps struggles are partly because of goaltending. A few have even gone as far as saying between the Caps top 3 goalie prospects, Varlamov will probably be the one looking in from the outside.

I know I'm harping on this one thing, but I picked this topic because I've followed each player closely. I wanted to just show that most of your post (Hollywood's, not sjmay's) is so narrow minded.

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Old
02-03-2011, 01:04 PM
  #123
Scottkmlps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
First off, if you reread my post and stop looking up words that may make you feel smart... You would have recognized I am in no way a fan of the Leafs strategy at all. You should have recognized I was stating on a smaller scale that LA is doing what the Leafs have done. (Handzus Poni Stoll... remember Dan Cloutier. Alyn Mccauley)
Instead, you wanted to puff out your chest at your own literature. A simple reread and you would have recognized this but you elected not to and dig out your English thesaurus. Breviti. Are you for real? Oh my....
Speaking of the `real hockey world`, have you have ever listened to a proper journalist,(that understands hockey) interview a `real world` hockey player? So let`s stick in the ` real world`....
Brown Parse Kopitar Quick were picked by previous management...
Handzus(4 yr 16million), Clifford, Simmons,Loktionov(good pick), Brad Richards(trade -2nd rnd pick),Smyth(6.2 Mill salary),Ponikarovsky (3.2 - rotting on 4th line), Stoll (3.6 -look at his stats at 3.6 million- are you kidding me???)
Obviously he made some good Draft picks but that happens when we are granted with a multitude of 1st round picks due to constantly finishing in the bottom 5(due to his hiring)...But he also didn`t exactly nail it in the draft either.... Have a look.
Dean Lombardi`s 1st 2nd rnd picks by year since being GM & President
2006 - 1st rnd Johnathan Bernier(12th), Trevor Lewis(17th)
Misses...Giroux 22, Varlamov 23rd.
2nd round - Joe Ryan 48th Misses.... Milan Lucic 50th
2007 1st rnd - Thomas Hickey (4th overall) Misses. Sam Gagner (6th) Logan Couture(9th)
2nd rnd - Oscar Moller(52) Wayne Simmonds(61)
Misses - None I can see
2008 1st rnd - Doughty(2) Teubert(13- for camms- with full year left on contract from arbitration)
Misses- Too many to mention frmo Teubert onwards...
2nd rnd - Voynov Misses...maybe Luke Adam
2009 1st rnd - Brayden Schenn(5)
Misses - too early to tell but I suspect a hell of a lot more than people think... Overrated.IMO strictly... we`ll see what happens
2nd rnd clifford (35)
2010 1st - Derek Forbort Misses- wait a few years
2nd - Tyler Toffoli -Misses- wait a few years..
Do you honestly think that since April 21, 2006 this is satisfactory...what he has been able to achieve is called rebuilding?
On top of this... His big signing`s at first were Handzus(Fresh off major knee surgery- playing 8 games the year before and giving him 16 million dollars for 4 years...Ladislav Nagy, Kyle Calder, Tom Preissing, Brad Stuart, and the steady Jon Klemm...
Do you not remember that we had a winning record before Dean Lombardi was hired(42-35-5 - 89pts) that year... then it took him 4 years(68pts 71pts 79pts 101) to beat where we were before he was hired...
And now, we are at risk of falling back below again Where we were before we hired him. Classic rebuilding!
Do I need to mention Camm`s... Mention Moulson(50 games 29pts)...Bryan Boyle(53games 28 pts) Ted Purcell(52 games 32 pts.. These players have done great since LA... Make ya think that LA doesn`t have the right mix? He`s had years to get it right, has he really gotten it right though?

He never ever had and still doesn`;t have the right mix of players... Open your eyes afterall, we are in the real world.
You want to throw out Lombardi and drafting? We can do the same with Taylor:

1997- Jokinen. Missed out on Luongo, Hossa
1997- Zultek. Missed out on Hannan, Morrow
1998- Biron. Missed out on Gagne, Gomez, Ribeiro, Fisher
1999- No 1st rd pick & the draft sucked.
2000- Frolov. Missed out on Volchenkov, Justin Williams, Kronwall, Bryzgalov
2001- Karlsson & Steckel. Missed out on Armstrong, Gleason, Roy, Pominville
2001- Bednar. Missed out on Plekanec, Sharp
2002- Grebeshkov. Missed out on Steen, Ward, Stoll, Daley, Greene
2002- Anshakov. Missed out on Keith, Hudler, Fleischmann
2003- Brown. Missed out on Parise, Getzlaff, Burns, Kesler, Richards
2003- Boyle & Tambellini. Missed out on Perry, Eriksson
2003- Pushkarev. Missed out on Bergeron, Weber, Backes
2004- Tukonen. Missed out on Stafford, Zajac, Wolski, Green, Booth
2005- Roussin. Missed out on Raymond
2005- Fast. Missed out on Letang


You do know that Lombardi was hired in April 06, just a couple months before the draft, leaving him no time to scout prospects? That draft was again Al Murray's draft. Taylor and Murray 90% of the time drafted for need. Lombardi is the total opposite, he always drafts for what his scouts and himself feels are bpa. You never draft for need, always bpa.
Yes Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and......Parse (? why you mention him when he hasn't done much) were already drafted when Lombardi took over. Kopitar? Taylor and Murray got an absolute gift on that one. A f'ing no brainer. Brown? Yes I like him, but really, look at the players drafted after him. Can you honestly say you would rather have Brown over any of Parise, Getzlaff, Burns, Richards, or Kesler? With Quick, I believe it was more to do with the development programs that Lombardi set up with the Kings minor league teams. Before Quick got into the minors he was all about the athleticism, and reflexes. Now he's about technique as well, and that is due to bringing in Ranford and building that development program. Parse? Still waiting.

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Old
02-03-2011, 01:16 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post

2005- Fast. Missed out on Letang

IIRC, we also gave up on Steckel for the chance to draft Fast. Or was that another Fast in a later draft? I'm so confused......

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Old
02-04-2011, 03:44 AM
  #125
Hollywood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
You want to throw out Lombardi and drafting? We can do the same with Taylor:

1997- Jokinen. Missed out on Luongo, Hossa
1997- Zultek. Missed out on Hannan, Morrow
1998- Biron. Missed out on Gagne, Gomez, Ribeiro, Fisher
1999- No 1st rd pick & the draft sucked.
2000- Frolov. Missed out on Volchenkov, Justin Williams, Kronwall, Bryzgalov
2001- Karlsson & Steckel. Missed out on Armstrong, Gleason, Roy, Pominville
2001- Bednar. Missed out on Plekanec, Sharp
2002- Grebeshkov. Missed out on Steen, Ward, Stoll, Daley, Greene
2002- Anshakov. Missed out on Keith, Hudler, Fleischmann
2003- Brown. Missed out on Parise, Getzlaff, Burns, Kesler, Richards
2003- Boyle & Tambellini. Missed out on Perry, Eriksson
2003- Pushkarev. Missed out on Bergeron, Weber, Backes
2004- Tukonen. Missed out on Stafford, Zajac, Wolski, Green, Booth
2005- Roussin. Missed out on Raymond
2005- Fast. Missed out on Letang


You do know that Lombardi was hired in April 06, just a couple months before the draft, leaving him no time to scout prospects? That draft was again Al Murray's draft. Taylor and Murray 90% of the time drafted for need. Lombardi is the total opposite, he always drafts for what his scouts and himself feels are bpa. You never draft for need, always bpa.
Yes Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and......Parse (? why you mention him when he hasn't done much) were already drafted when Lombardi took over. Kopitar? Taylor and Murray got an absolute gift on that one. A f'ing no brainer. Brown? Yes I like him, but really, look at the players drafted after him. Can you honestly say you would rather have Brown over any of Parise, Getzlaff, Burns, Richards, or Kesler? With Quick, I believe it was more to do with the development programs that Lombardi set up with the Kings minor league teams. Before Quick got into the minors he was all about the athleticism, and reflexes. Now he's about technique as well, and that is due to bringing in Ranford and building that development program. Parse? Still waiting.
April 21, 2006. Draft occurs in 4th week of June...60 days!!!!!!! Are you aware what Lombardi did prior to employment with LA? No he wasn't teaching law on vancouver island...His job was to scout the future. Yet he had no knowledge and no time??? He knew everyone available and every teams strategy but obviously his actions speak louder than my words...
This guy is slick... He has had management by the balls since being here... Why else would he state after making playoffs for first time in years and years, "we are ahead of schedule"? Self preservation. He can make a team but he can't build a winner. Insert San Jose.
Oh... do me a favour and get some old oilers games from late 80's 90's... Bill Ranford. Technique?

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