HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Need for a Heavyweight?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-02-2011, 05:33 PM
  #76
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
Talbot, Cooke and even Dupuis were always getting involved with the Rangers and I think it distracted them. Let's not forget the manhandling Dubi took from Letang, which led to Dubi getting a penalty.
So Cooke and Talbot played differently when Boogaard and Orr and Brashear were here? Nope. That's the way they always play.

They weren't distracted. Some deflections went in and a few players were returning from injury.

This notion that every time they lose a game, that a goon would have made a difference has reached the point of insanity. If Boogaard was here, do you think he should have gone after Letang to protect Dubi? Dubi needs protection from the oh, so fierce Letang? Really? Is there a single poster who believes that?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 05:34 PM
  #77
kovazub94
Enigmatic
 
kovazub94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 798
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepan2Dubi View Post
So you rather a 4th line that gets 7 minutes a game and score a total of 12 goals a year. then cry cause our core guys loose 5 minutes or more a game cause they have to fight.
This statement does not apply to the Rangers because how they are currently constructed. If I had to choose HW or Weise, for instance, I'd say HW but it's not the case here.
In a week or less there is going to be a roster that is worth of 4 mostly even scoring wise lines. There is no clear 1st line or 3rd or 4th. On any given night you wouldn't know which line might click and score. So excluding special team play, depending on how they are going on any given night you get that line 15+4 minutes which you subtract from the other = 15 - 4.
If all 4 lines are going then it's should be pretty close to 15 min give or take because we don't have players (until Gaborik gets going) that you can count on for an extra goal if they get extra 3-4 m of playing time.

kovazub94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 05:43 PM
  #78
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,639
vCash: 500
If you want to add someone who can play hockey and fight, fine, but I'm tired of players that can't play at a league minimum skill level being here, just because they can fight. Enough of the Orrs and Brashears and Boogaards. They are worse than useless because they are taking away ice time from players that might help you win a game.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 05:48 PM
  #79
Gardner McKay
Moderator
Hey Hey...
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Atlanta
Country: United States
Posts: 10,183
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
If you want to add someone who can play hockey and fight, fine, but I'm tired of players that can't play at a league minimum skill level being here, just because they can fight. Enough of the Orrs and Brashears and Boogaards. They are worse than useless because they are taking away ice time from players that might help you win a game.
Right but truth be told how many TRUE heavyweights that can ALSO actually play hockey are there? Boogaards and Orrs dont count.

Gardner McKay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 05:56 PM
  #80
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
Right but truth be told how many TRUE heavyweights that can ALSO actually play hockey are there? Boogaards and Orrs dont count.
Exactly. That is why the Rangers don't need one.

If a goon on another team attacks one of our players and they don't have the collective balls to stand up for themselves, they are going nowhere anyway.

Let Godard challenge Callahan to a fight. When Callahan skates away and Godard takes the stupid penaly, I'll happily take the power play. Then Godard's coach will glue his butt to the bench for being an idiot.

You create fear and confusion in your opponent by checking them hard and often, not by dangling your gloves as a challenge.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 06:05 PM
  #81
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,404
vCash: 500
I just wish Sather ante'd up and signed Jody Shelley. He was perfect. A heavy weight who could actually skate and forecheck. That's really all you can ask from a heavy weight goon. Solid teammate as well.

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 06:05 PM
  #82
TreeSapLlama
Registered User
 
TreeSapLlama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 713
vCash: 500
In my opinion, the only way a true heavy weight has a place in this game is either

A) Contribute Offensively
B) Hit like a truck.

If they can contribute offensively then it is pretty self explantory. But truth be told, I wouldn't care if our 4th line got a combined 10 points a year (Similar to Hollweg - Betts - Orr) if they were an absolute nightmare for the other team.

Boogaard would be a force if he could skate fast enough to hit people. There is some definite intimidation if your best fighter can consistantly lay the body. Hitting is the only "LEGAL" way an enforcer can intimidate star players. If Boogaard was able to hit Crosby even once, that would be enough.

If someone like Matt Cooke takes a cheap shot, you can't just go up and start punching. Youll get a 5 minute major and probably a suspension. But if you can go out on the next shift and put him or someone else through the glass, that is different. Then maybe Matt Cooke doesn't do that again. And if someone tries to fight you to protect the player you ran over, you can oblige them.

As it stands Boogaard skates far too slow to catch anyone worth hitting.

TreeSapLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 06:32 PM
  #83
Badko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
What Brandon Prust is, and what he should be, is whatever is best for the team. If that means not fighting against the big guys, then that's what he should do.
I see. You're one of those people who want others to only do what you believe is best for them to do and ignore the fact that a human being comes in one complete package. Prust is a competitive and intense individual. You can't pick and choose what he should and shouldn't get intense about.

Badko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 06:48 PM
  #84
Jackson Ranger
Registered User
 
Jackson Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 2,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
So Cooke and Talbot played differently when Boogaard and Orr and Brashear were here? Nope. That's the way they always play.

They weren't distracted. Some deflections went in and a few players were returning from injury.

This notion that every time they lose a game, that a goon would have made a difference has reached the point of insanity. If Boogaard was here, do you think he should have gone after Letang to protect Dubi? Dubi needs protection from the oh, so fierce Letang? Really? Is there a single poster who believes that?
Did you read my entire post because obviously you missed a lot? No where in my post did I state the Rangers needed an Orr/Brashear or Boogaard. As for Cooke and Talbot, I do think they played a more peskier type of game. Is that because the Rangers aren't dressing a goon? I don't know. Maybe because Pittsburgh was missing three centers they decided to play a more physical/stir the pot type of game. If you or I were in the Pittsburgh dressing room we would know the answer.

As for being distracted, Prust and Cooke went at it at the start of the game and then were going at it to start the second. Prust challenged Cooke who backed down. The next shift out for Prust and Engelland, they go at it. Now was Prust playing the Ranger game of playing a solid two way game or did he get distracted and find a willing partner to dance in Engelland because Cooke wouldn't go with him earlier?

I stated in a later post that the Rangers didn't have as much "push back" as they normally do. Guys like Sauer, Avery and Girardi were very quiet. Hopefully it was a combination of a first game back from the All Star break and getting guys back into the lineup. Either way, I'm not panicking that this team needs a goon.

By the way, have you ever seen Letang fight? For a guy his size, he can throw em.

Jackson Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 06:53 PM
  #85
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
Did you read my entire post because obviously you missed a lot? No where in my post did I state the Rangers needed an Orr/Brashear or Boogaard. As for Cooke and Talbot, I do think they played a more peskier type of game. Is that because the Rangers aren't dressing a goon? I don't know. Maybe because Pittsburgh was missing three centers they decided to play a more physical/stir the pot type of game. If you or I were in the Pittsburgh dressing room we would know the answer.

As for being distracted, Prust and Cooke went at it at the start of the game and then were going at it to start the second. Prust challenged Cooke who backed down. The next shift out for Prust and Engelland, they go at it. Now was Prust playing the Ranger game of playing a solid two way game or did he get distracted and find a willing partner to dance in Engelland because Cooke wouldn't go with him earlier?

I stated in a later post that the Rangers didn't have as much "push back" as they normally do. Guys like Sauer, Avery and Girardi were very quiet. Hopefully it was a combination of a first game back from the All Star break and getting guys back into the lineup. Either way, I'm not panicking that this team needs a goon.

By the way, have you ever seen Letang fight? For a guy his size, he can throw em.
Cooke played the exact same way he plays every single game.

But you do agree that Dubi does not need protection from any teammate in order to deal with Letang, right?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 06:55 PM
  #86
Jackson Ranger
Registered User
 
Jackson Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 2,571
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Cooke played the exact same way he plays every single game.

But you do agree that Dubi does not need protection from any teammate in order to deal with Letang, right?
Dubi wouldn't look for protection but Letang is no Richards.

Jackson Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 07:33 PM
  #87
surf
Wheres the Reggae?
 
surf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sea bright nj
Country: United States
Posts: 1,427
vCash: 500
Prust held on..didnt open up..I remember the fight..Lucic never got going


Quote:
Originally Posted by msg View Post
Lucic and Prust already fought this year and he did not destroy Prust.

surf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 09:10 PM
  #88
satrabyk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,866
vCash: 500
What is the point so our tough guy could play 2 minutes every couple games and stage fight. Honestly the guy we shoudl have kept was Shelly or Orr because they both can contribute. But no we wanted Brash, and Boog both epic failures which Sather got no questioning about. We have Prust who fights, Sauer, somewhat Boyle and honestly most guys on this team are capable, its not liek were full of Europeans. Even Zucc i think we can see stick up for himself.

satrabyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 10:00 PM
  #89
n8
WAAAAAAA!!!
 
n8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: san francisco
Country: United States
Posts: 7,404
vCash: 500
Brent Johnson is clearly the answer! POW!

n8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 10:00 PM
  #90
Machinehead
54★ 74★ 90★ 14★
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 34,401
vCash: 500
Lucic? Please, my grandmother could get in 3 fights. He's far form an enforcer.

Machinehead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 10:19 PM
  #91
Mint Berry Crunch
hfbrods pls...
 
Mint Berry Crunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: Pakistan
Posts: 1,946
vCash: 1081
Send a message via AIM to Mint Berry Crunch
We had our chance when Kyle Wellwood was on re-entry waivers...

Mint Berry Crunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 11:13 PM
  #92
GarretJoseph*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 7,604
vCash: 500
I say we wait until the deadline to see what happens with Boogs, if he's out for the year, offer up a 5th or 6th with a minor league fighter for a good heavy weight fighter. Of course he wouldn't dress everygame but if he can score and play like Jody Shelley then sure. That Shelley/AA/Prust line late last year was awesome.

We have other needs too, a vet d-man (Phillips/McCabe), another rental for a playmaking center (connolly???) without giving up our top young kids up here and in hartford. Stay the course, bring in the parts that will help us in the playoffs.

LGR!!

GarretJoseph* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2011, 11:26 PM
  #93
BBKers
Registered User
 
BBKers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Koster, Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,697
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to BBKers
Having a heavyweight enforcer in the Atlantic Division is basically a necessity in the 82 game grind of the regular season imo. Not to play big minutes or even dress every night, but having one on the team (especially a mean one like we thought The Boogeyman was) should be a deterrant that warrants his own existance in numerous situations that still exist in the "new NHL" - whatever the Pacifists around here say or think. Using Prust as your "fighter" is by no means optimal or a good way of adressing certain issues imo. He is too valuable in many other ways and could one day wind up getting pummeled badly by the real heavyweights and get injured real bad. Then what? Baby cries for suspensions?
That being said - come playoffs - the enforcer role is basically moot. But one has to make it to the playoffs first --- basically by beating (up) some teams that come out dirty and dress heavyweights ready to wreck havoc amongst our key players including Hank.
Team toughness is another issue which a lot of people here constantly preach about. Fine - I can buy into that - under certain premises. But remember that team toughness is usually created when borderline "tough players - but not goons" (ie Boyle, Cally, Sauer, Dubi, Avery and Eminger) feel the confidence and backup to be tough when the going gets tough. This I believe was created this season (and last when Shelly/Prust joined and the worthless Huggy Bear was demoted) somewhat through the prescence of the Boogeyman on the squad in the beginning of the year - they felt they had backup and "went for it" when things got messy - knowing in the back of their minds that the Monster was there to back them up (even if he in reality rarely ever showed it or even won his fights convincingly).
So maybe the Boogeyman actually and ironically unknowingly helped the boys gel together in a way they may not have done without his presence? We will never know the answers here. Only that Prust needs help at times to deal with bigger guys and with Boogey presumabely out the rest of the year - then Newbury and/or someone else will have to step up and fill the role until the Playoffs. After that - presuming we make it - we will not need to dress a goon. Because Prust needs to be healthy and provide other things while playing (as does Avery!). Sacrificing a roster spot to a "14th" FWD to take this designated role is NOT the major flaw or deficiency the team really needs - but it is worth serious consideration imo... as this role is a regular season necessity. Whatever the pansies around here think...lol


Last edited by BBKers: 02-02-2011 at 11:31 PM.
BBKers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 07:59 AM
  #94
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badko View Post
I see. You're one of those people who want others to only do what you believe is best for them to do and ignore the fact that a human being comes in one complete package. Prust is a competitive and intense individual. You can't pick and choose what he should and shouldn't get intense about.
Really? So if Prust were to be unable to control his temper and took a lot of bad penalties, I shouldn't say anything about that either because that's just the way he is? Team players do what's best for the team.

This is all moot anyway because I doubt Torts is going to tell Prust to stay away from the heavyweights, but if he did, I would expect Prust to do it.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 08:06 AM
  #95
Badko
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Really? So if Prust were to be unable to control his temper and took a lot of bad penalties, I shouldn't say anything about that either because that's just the way he is? Team players do what's best for the team.

This is all moot anyway because I doubt Torts is going to tell Prust to stay away from the heavyweights, but if he did, I would expect Prust to do it.
So now Prust isn't a team player?

Badko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 08:08 AM
  #96
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
whatever the Pacifists around here say or think. Using Prust as your "fighter" is by no means optimal or a good way of adressing certain issues imo. He is too valuable in many other ways and could one day wind up getting pummeled badly by the real heavyweights and get injured real bad. Then what? Baby cries for suspensions?
We could do one of two things. Either get a goon to fight their goon, or just tell our players not to fight their goon. What is he gonna do? Please, tell me how he's going to affect the game in any way if no one fights him, and how we'll be disadvantaged.

Quote:
Sacrificing a roster spot to a "14th" FWD to take this designated role is NOT the major flaw or deficiency the team really needs - but it is worth serious consideration imo... as this role is a regular season necessity. Whatever the pansies around here think...lol
It's funny how every pro-enforcer fan seems to feel the need to throw labels at those who argue against enforcers.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 08:11 AM
  #97
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badko View Post
So now Prust isn't a team player?
Where in my post did I say that he isn't? Please learn to read. I said that IF Torts told him not to fight the heavyweights, he should do it, because that's what a team player would do. You tried to get philosophical and suggest that Prust is who he is and it's human nature blah blah blah. Please. Players do what they are asked to do or they find themselves another team.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 08:46 AM
  #98
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
We haven't had an enforcer since Boogey went down. Remind me how many teams push us around on a nightly basis? Which player has had his way with us the last few months?

Goons are overrated. This is a tough team that sticks up for eachother. There are very few pushovers here.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 09:04 AM
  #99
Dagoon44
Registered User
 
Dagoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,914
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Dagoon44 Send a message via Yahoo to Dagoon44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
We haven't had an enforcer since Boogey went down. Remind me how many teams push us around on a nightly basis? Which player has had his way with us the last few months?

Goons are overrated. This is a tough team that sticks up for eachother. There are very few pushovers here.
Great statement and I agree. Dubi Cally Sauer Prust Bolye are all willing and able. I would like to add a guy like a Neil or Carkner that play a regular shift.

Dagoon44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-03-2011, 10:16 AM
  #100
Orr Nightmare
Registered User
 
Orr Nightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,605
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
Prust held on..didnt open up..I remember the fight..Lucic never got going
And the ref jumped in early.

most guys on this board would get Prust killed.

He has huge balls and will do anything for his team...but he shouldn't be fighting Lucic, Jay Harrison, Tom Gleason and the like...he is much smaller than these guys.

If we can't obtain, Ryan Clowe, Taylor Pyatt, Jared Boll, Kyle Clifford or someone like than a goon is needed.

Unless you want Prust to die

Orr Nightmare is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.