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Next Flyer to Reach 100 Points in a Season.

View Poll Results: Which of the following will score 100 points in one season as a Flyer?
Richards 5 2.82%
Carter 4 2.26%
Briere 7 3.95%
Giroux 84 47.46%
JvR 8 4.52%
Leino 3 1.69%
Hartnell 2 1.13%
Other player in the Organization 2 1.13%
Player not yet in the Organization 52 29.38%
No Flyers player will ever again score 100 points in a season 10 5.65%
Voters: 177. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:30 PM
  #26
Garbage Goal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
Giroux could do it if he got a linemate like Stamkos.
Stamkos alone is capable of 100 points...so if we had a guy like Stamkos then he would be the one capable of 100 points without question.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:40 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...Giroux isn't that young. He's 23 right now. Recchi, for example, had 3 100 pt seasons in the NHL... when he was 22, 24, and 25 y/o.

I think Giroux is going to have a very productive career, but in more of the Scott Gomez arc than what you're suggesting is possible. There are examples of guys that take longer to get to that threshold (like the Sedins), but if you look at 100 point players listed above.

Thornton 23
Ovechkin 20
Crosby 18
Jagr 23
Heatley 25
Malkin 21
Lecavalier 26
St Louis 31
Hossa 28
Sakic 20
Alfredsson 33
Staal 21

So, 7 of those 12 guys got to 100 when they were Giroux's age or younger. You have a guy like Alfredsson who took advantage of the silly first year out of the lockout. Hossa and Lecavalier are both bigger guys, who tend to develop a bit slower... also better goal scorers than Giroux. None of this meant to be a slight to Giroux... just a reality check on using his age too much to his benefit in this type of discussion. Elite scorers start young in the NHL, and small guys tend to develop much faster than bigger guys.
On the one hand we were talking about the eras being different... thus different point totals in the eras... and then you throw in the 40+ Recchi's early years to show that he had his 100 point years around the age of Giroux... How can we compare them when they were of similar ages in way different eras?

All players are different as are all organizations... Some teams that draft a high draft choice are lower in their development and tend to throw your talented players out there to have a greater impact on the team than a team further along that allows their players to take a back seat and develop slower. Some of those players you cite were thrown to the wolves out of the gate (Juniors) as teams saviors... The Flyers didn't with Giroux.

And some players increase their output and progress steadily before they have a breakout season... others have a great impact from the get go... all players are different; I believe Giroux will get better and has not yet reached anywhere near his peak. Of course I could be way off base.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:42 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm6492 View Post
Giroux could do it if he got a linemate like Stamkos.
You could do it if you got a line-mate like Stamkos.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:44 PM
  #29
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
On the one hand we were talking about the eras being different... thus different point totals in the eras... and then you throw in the 40+ Recchi's early years to show that he had his 100 point years around the age of Giroux... How can we compare them when they were of similar ages in way different eras?

All players are different as are all organizations... Some teams that draft a high draft choice are lower in their development and tend to throw your talented players out there to have a greater impact on the team than a team further along that allows their players to take a back seat and develop slower. Some of those players you cite were thrown to the wolves out of the gate (Juniors) as teams saviors... The Flyers didn't with Giroux.

And some players increase their output and progress steadily before they have a breakout season... others have a great impact from the get go... all players are different; I believe Giroux will get better and has not yet reached anywhere near his peak. Of course I could be way off base.
I posted the stats for the last three seasons and this season earlier. The only players that have consistently gotten 100 points are Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, and probably soon-to-be Henrik Sedin.

Crosby and Ovechkin got their first 100 point seasons their rookie season. Crosby is as old as Giroux currently and Ovechkin is only two years older. Malkin had his first one his second season and is about as old as Giroux.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:57 PM
  #30
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ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu--- I miss-clicked and selected briere instead of giroux.

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Old
02-01-2011, 10:59 PM
  #31
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I like Giroux, but I don't see him or anyone on that list pulling off 100 any time soon.

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Old
02-01-2011, 11:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I posted the stats for the last three seasons and this season earlier. The only players that have consistently gotten 100 points are Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, and probably soon-to-be Henrik Sedin.

Crosby and Ovechkin got their first 100 point seasons their rookie season. Crosby is as old as Giroux currently and Ovechkin is only two years older. Malkin had his first one his second season and is about as old as Giroux.
First off I am not and would not put Giroux in the Crosby Ovechkin class.

We do however have to take into account that Crosby and Ovechkin were can't miss superstars that were selected by teams that placed them in positions of greater expectations and reliance... they were fast tracked and proved worthy of that.

Giroux on the other hand was what? 22nd overall and passed on by 21 selectors -- and would have been by the Flyers also had their man been still on the board -- He was by no means supposed to be a can't miss... So he certainly was not in the same class nor same level nor same pace as those two... nor Malkin who also was fast tracked and a better prospect IIRC.

All of this is to say that saying that the others were better at Giroux's age is IMO not a true way to gauge where Claude should be now... And we don't know whether or not he will reach a higher level once he is matured and given the greater responsibility on his team

Also none of those other players had a Richards, Carter and Briere ahead of him and above him... He came in as a prospect that advanced faster that projected, and was placed in a position where he could compliment the players already on the team, not be a savior... He may never be close to the others but he may have 100 point seasons... I see greatness in his game, but I see it as still raw and still improving... he needs to gain consistency and develop and refine his game; he is a work in progress... he may just be a superstar in development. I have high hopes I realize this.

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02-01-2011, 11:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu--- I miss-clicked and selected briere instead of giroux.
Tough titty

I wish I could adjust it... but I can't... and besides, Briere needs the love.



OMG... that wasn't filtered out. I'll have to remember that word for future use.

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Old
02-02-2011, 08:54 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
On the one hand we were talking about the eras being different... thus different point totals in the eras... and then you throw in the 40+ Recchi's early years to show that he had his 100 point years around the age of Giroux... How can we compare them when they were of similar ages in way different eras?
That point wasn't comparing eras... it was addressing your belief that Giroux is "still young." If you're talking about 100 pt seasons, he isn't. Offensive production actually peaks rather early for players on average. Most players enjoy their best offensive stretch in the 23-28 period of their career, and I would actually suggest that you hedge that to the earlier side of that range.

Offensive production is a young man's game.

Quote:
All players are different as are all organizations... Some teams that draft a high draft choice are lower in their development and tend to throw your talented players out there to have a greater impact on the team than a team further along that allows their players to take a back seat and develop slower. Some of those players you cite were thrown to the wolves out of the gate (Juniors) as teams saviors... The Flyers didn't with Giroux.
This really has nothing to do with what you're trying to argue. Moreover, if Giroux had been good enough he would have been on the roster. It had nothing to do with the Flyers pushing him or not pushing him. Most of the folks we're going to be talking about as 100 pt players are showing that talent when they are very very young (for example, see Stamkos right now).

Quote:
And some players increase their output and progress steadily before they have a breakout season... others have a great impact from the get go... all players are different; I believe Giroux will get better and has not yet reached anywhere near his peak. Of course I could be way off base.
Sure, but most of the elite scorers -- the guys that are going to hit 100 -- are showing that when they are Giroux's age or younger. A guy like Heatley took until 25, but he was a more dangerous offensive player when he was Giroux's age.

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Old
02-02-2011, 09:00 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
First off I am not and would not put Giroux in the Crosby Ovechkin class.

We do however have to take into account that Crosby and Ovechkin were can't miss superstars that were selected by teams that placed them in positions of greater expectations and reliance... they were fast tracked and proved worthy of that.

Giroux on the other hand was what? 22nd overall and passed on by 21 selectors -- and would have been by the Flyers also had their man been still on the board -- He was by no means supposed to be a can't miss... So he certainly was not in the same class nor same level nor same pace as those two... nor Malkin who also was fast tracked and a better prospect IIRC.
Giroux's draft selection is completely irrelevant to the argument you are making about the type of production we should expect as being somewhat likely from him. Moreover, he wasn't fast tracked because he wasn't ready... not because of where he was picked. Flyers have had little problem putting young players into the fire... like, ya know, Bob.

Quote:
All of this is to say that saying that the others were better at Giroux's age is IMO not a true way to gauge where Claude should be now... And we don't know whether or not he will reach a higher level once he is matured and given the greater responsibility on his team
Well, "should be" is the wrong way to phrase it. Noting that others were (or are) better than Giroux's age is indicative of where he stands on the progression arc, though.

Quote:
Also none of those other players had a Richards, Carter and Briere ahead of him and above him... He came in as a prospect that advanced faster that projected, and was placed in a position where he could compliment the players already on the team, not be a savior... He may never be close to the others but he may have 100 point seasons... I see greatness in his game, but I see it as still raw and still improving... he needs to gain consistency and develop and refine his game; he is a work in progress... he may just be a superstar in development. I have high hopes I realize this.
Ah... Crosby, Ovechkin, etc. were not going to be affected at all by having a Richards, Carter, Briere, etc. ahead of 'em.

Giroux was actually expected to make the team out of camp a few years back, but failed to do so and went to the AHL. So, I'm not sure where this "advanced faster than projected" thing comes from. Additionally, given how well he performed in the 2nd half of that season, I think it's safe to say last year was a bit of a disappointment outside of the playoffs when looking at his production.

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Old
02-02-2011, 10:01 AM
  #36
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No one.

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Old
02-02-2011, 10:18 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Hossa and Lecavalier are both bigger guys, who tend to develop a bit slower... also better goal scorers than Giroux.
I wouldn't call Hossa a bigger guy. He's 6'1, 208 pounds. He's got incredibly strong and thicker legs (all the rehab from the time his knee was wrecked in the Memorial Cup by Bryan Berard), but he's not as thick in the upper half of his body.

Hossa benefited from being moved out of Ottawa to Atlanta where they let him run rampant.

As for Giroux being a 100 point player, I think it's very possible that he can be one. However, it's his versatility to play any of the forward spots that's his biggest asset and for that reason alone, he'll never hit 100 points simply because he's moved all over the place when needed. When's the last time anyone has seen another player on the Flyers roster play different positions as frequently as Giroux does? You need a center, Giroux can do it. You need a winger, Giroux can do that as well. I'm just anticipating a Scotty Bowman-esque move when Laviolette moves Giroux back to the defense because they're shorthanded.

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02-02-2011, 10:21 AM
  #38
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I vorted. I think it will be a "Player not yet in the Organization." I hope I am wrong.

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02-02-2011, 10:24 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I wouldn't call Hossa a bigger guy. He's 6'1, 208 pounds. He's got incredibly strong and thicker legs (all the rehab from the time his knee was wrecked in the Memorial Cup by Bryan Berard), but he's not as thick in the upper half of his body.

Hossa benefited from being moved out of Ottawa to Atlanta where they let him run rampant.

As for Giroux being a 100 point player, I think it's very possible that he can be one. However, it's his versatility to play any of the forward spots that's his biggest asset and for that reason alone, he'll never hit 100 points simply because he's moved all over the place when needed. When's the last time anyone has seen another player on the Flyers roster play different positions as frequently as Giroux does? You need a center, Giroux can do it. You need a winger, Giroux can do that as well. I'm just anticipating a Scotty Bowman-esque move when Laviolette moves Giroux back to the defense because they're shorthanded.
I mean... that's a relatively big guy. He's not the tall and lanky type, but he's above league average with ease (especially if we're looking at forwards). The only forwards we have with list weight higher than that are Powe, Shelley, JVR, and Hartnell.

I also think Hossa's jump in Atlanta had more to do with those years coming right after the lockout as much as anything else. If you look at his career numbers, they seem pretty closely linked to the scoring jump after the lockout, and then the decline that we've seen as team's have adjusted.

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02-02-2011, 10:41 AM
  #40
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I don't think we have a 100 pt guy on the team....G is the closest if he takes it up another notch. Clarke last night said G isn't selfish enough....


Last edited by Embiid: 02-02-2011 at 12:52 PM. Reason: "clarkification"
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Old
02-02-2011, 02:31 PM
  #41
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If Giroux gets an elite scorer on his wing (or if JVR blossoms into one) a few years from now when he is fully developed and in his prime I don't see why a 25-75-100 type season from him couldn't be possible.

Not plausible, but possible.

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02-02-2011, 06:19 PM
  #42
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I don't forsee anyone on the current roster reaching 100 points.

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02-02-2011, 06:21 PM
  #43
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It will be Giroux.

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02-02-2011, 06:22 PM
  #44
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No option for Zherdev?

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02-02-2011, 08:19 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
If Giroux gets an elite scorer on his wing (or if JVR blossoms into one) a few years from now when he is fully developed and in his prime I don't see why a 25-75-100 type season from him couldn't be possible.

Not plausible, but possible.
I still think that's a huge task -- JvR would have to be banking probably 25-35 goals from just Giroux at that point...it just seems like an incredible task.

I love watching them together though. I wish that could happen more.

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02-03-2011, 11:37 AM
  #46
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Oh wow, another thread dominated by jester and another poster.

Jesus, take a break.

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02-03-2011, 12:04 PM
  #47
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Oh wow, another thread dominated by jester and another poster.

Jesus, take a break.
Seriously?

Use the ignore feature, or buy a box of tissues.

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Old
02-03-2011, 01:23 PM
  #48
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I saw that in the upcoming perfect season (2011-12), brought to you by Verizon, Giroux led the team with 143 points. But with eight 100-point scorers, I can't say for sure he was the first.
Voted for him anyway.

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02-03-2011, 10:22 PM
  #49
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Giroux is just starting to tap into his skill at this level, he had 106 points in 55 games in junior.... while I know you cannot compare this to the nhl it just shows you he is a point producer, he will crack 100

I have heard numerous hockey analysts say they think he will be a top 5 player in the league withing 1-2 years

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02-03-2011, 10:57 PM
  #50
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I went with JVR, as I think he is the only player with the skill set you need to be a 100pt player. I still think it's unlikely for him to hit it.

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