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Need for a Heavyweight?

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Old
02-03-2011, 10:36 AM
  #101
mullichicken25
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
We haven't had an enforcer since Boogey went down. Remind me how many teams push us around on a nightly basis? Which player has had his way with us the last few months?

Goons are overrated. This is a tough team that sticks up for eachother. There are very few pushovers here.
this is literally all there is to say on the subject

we have not lost a game because of a lack of enforcer and we're not going to.

period.

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Old
02-03-2011, 10:36 AM
  #102
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prust won the Lucic fight and bloodied him. He is smart and fights the goons like he has to in close and doesn't open up. guys prust is a mucker nothing more. He tries his hardest and this year it is paying off.

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02-03-2011, 10:46 AM
  #103
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I'll take Matt Carkner for a 3rd or 4th. Play him on the bottom pairing. He has playoff experience and is actually a very good Pker and shot blocker. His skating is not great but he gets by.

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02-03-2011, 10:48 AM
  #104
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
prust won the Lucic fight and bloodied him. He is smart and fights the goons like he has to in close and doesn't open up. guys prust is a mucker nothing more. He tries his hardest and this year it is paying off.
Bro, I am usually with u, but....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaVKdj8h1xs

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02-03-2011, 10:49 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I'll take Matt Carkner for a 3rd or 4th. Play him on the bottom pairing. He has playoff experience and is actually a very good Pker and shot blocker. His skating is not great but he gets by.
Been asking for Carkner for 2 months now.

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02-03-2011, 10:53 AM
  #106
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You don't really need "goons" anymore. Utility 3rd/4th line guys who can hit, fight, and chip in on the scoresheet are much more of a commodity; players like Boogaard, Shelley, and Brashear are fading away. There won't be many of those types after a while. You need to be able to actually competently play the game to stay in this league, and neither of those guys could/have.

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02-03-2011, 11:10 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Where in my post did I say that he isn't? Please learn to read. I said that IF Torts told him not to fight the heavyweights, he should do it, because that's what a team player would do. You tried to get philosophical and suggest that Prust is who he is and it's human nature blah blah blah. Please. Players do what they are asked to do or they find themselves another team.
I can read and I did read and I knew that would be your response. I wanted you to emphasize the "if" aspect of your thought process to prove my point. Maybe on your fantasy team Prust won't fight the heavyweight goons, but that's just not the reality of the situation. And given your last sentence, I'd assume Torts endorses Prust's on ice actions because he hasn't been benched yet.

The reason I believe we need a heavyweight is because other teams have them and while it's great to believe we'd have a major advantage if we just turned and skated away, that isn't reality.

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02-03-2011, 11:17 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
we have not lost a game because of a lack of enforcer and we're not going to.

period.
Pretty broad statement there. I realize this topic can be debated for ages with no clear cut answer, but if your statement were absolutely true, there would be no goons in the league.

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02-03-2011, 11:25 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Badko View Post
Pretty broad statement there. I realize this topic can be debated for ages with no clear cut answer, but if your statement were absolutely true, there would be no goons in the league.
look at the league and tell me its not heading in that direction

the one dimensional tough guy fighter is the T-rex of the NHL

was badass at one point, but the astroid has landed and their time is winding down

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Old
02-03-2011, 11:40 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
If we can't obtain, Ryan Clowe, Taylor Pyatt, Jared Boll, Kyle Clifford or someone like than a goon is needed.

Unless you want Prust to die
Ironically, the only person the roster who's come close to dying is the goon.

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Originally Posted by Badko View Post
Pretty broad statement there. I realize this topic can be debated for ages with no clear cut answer, but if your statement were absolutely true, there would be no goons in the league.
There is an answer. We've seen the Rangers play with a top shelf enforcer and without. The only difference I've seen is that we don't have to sit through the obligatory, pre-staged boxing match every 3 games.

Look at where the leaders in fighting majors play. Anaheim. The Island. Columbus. Toronto. Seeing a pattern there?

Playoff bound teams aren't wasting their time, money and roster spots on this type of player anymore. This may indeed be the final year for the goon as we know it.

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02-03-2011, 11:45 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
look at the league and tell me its not heading in that direction

the one dimensional tough guy fighter is the T-rex of the NHL

was badass at one point, but the astroid has landed and their time is winding down
David Koci
Derek Boogaard
Trevor Gillies
George Parros
Colton Orr
Krys Barch
Paul Bissonnette
Jody Shelley
Cam Janssen
John Scott
Kevin Westgarth
Eric Boulton
Darcy Hordichuk
Eric Godard
Ben Eager
Rick Rypien
Wade Belak
Matt Kassian
Jay Rosehill
Jordin Tootoo

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02-03-2011, 12:10 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
David Koci
Derek Boogaard
Trevor Gillies
George Parros
Colton Orr
Krys Barch
Paul Bissonnette
Jody Shelley
Cam Janssen
John Scott
Kevin Westgarth
Eric Boulton
Darcy Hordichuk
Eric Godard
Ben Eager
Rick Rypien
Wade Belak
Matt Kassian
Jay Rosehill
Jordin Tootoo
Wow, what a collection of awful, useless players, the majority of whom spend more time in the penalty box than they do on the ice. The only players on this list that make any real contributions to their team on the ice are, surprise surprise, players that do more than just fight (Eager, Rypien, Tootoo).

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02-03-2011, 12:21 PM
  #113
Ryan McDonut
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we can just ignore other teams enforcers. its not like they can play hockey anyway

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:22 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Wow, what a collection of awful, useless players, the majority of whom spend more time in the penalty box than they do on the ice. The only players on this list that make any real contributions to their team on the ice are, surprise surprise, players that do more than just fight (Eager, Rypien, Tootoo).
Only think I'd add is look at that list and 98% of the guys on it make less that 1M.

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:22 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Look at where the leaders in fighting majors play. Anaheim. The Island. Columbus. Toronto. Seeing a pattern there?

Playoff bound teams aren't wasting their time, money and roster spots on this type of player anymore. This may indeed be the final year for the goon as we know it.
Melrose, not debating the issue, just your information. The top teams regarding fighting are: St. Louis, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, Boston, Dallas and the Rangers.

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02-03-2011, 12:25 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
look at the league and tell me its not heading in that direction

the one dimensional tough guy fighter is the T-rex of the NHL

was badass at one point, but the astroid has landed and their time is winding down
I do agree it's headed in that direction. Hopefully, it will get there in my lifetime.

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:28 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Dubi17 View Post
we can just ignore other teams enforcers. its not like they can play hockey anyway
Great theory...too bad it doesn't work like that.

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02-03-2011, 12:30 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Jackson Ranger View Post
Melrose, not debating the issue, just your information. The top teams regarding fighting are: St. Louis, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, Boston, Dallas and the Rangers.
I was looking at fighting majors for individuals, not an entire team. I figured that was a good way to sort out the goons from tough teams with several individuals who aren't afraid to drop the gloves.

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Old
02-03-2011, 12:34 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Badko View Post
Great theory...too bad it doesn't work like that.
Why not? What are they gonna do, jump on our guy's back as he's skating away and start pounding him?

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02-03-2011, 12:40 PM
  #120
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Wow, what a collection of awful, useless players, the majority of whom spend more time in the penalty box than they do on the ice. The only players on this list that make any real contributions to their team on the ice are, surprise surprise, players that do more than just fight (Eager, Rypien, Tootoo).
Mullichicken 25 said they are the T-Rex, I am just pointing out that there are still plenty of these guys around.

If you noticed...I left off guys like Jared Boll, Zenon Konokpa, Carkner, BJ Crombeen, Kyle Clifford, Shawn Thortnon, Tim Jackman because the offer up a little more.

The next 30 games will get alot more physical and I know everyone thinks Dubi, Sauer, Boyle and Avery can handle the dirty work but when u have to play the Bruins, Flyers, Devils and the like...we will get exposed unless Prust fights 5 x's a game.

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02-03-2011, 12:45 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Badko View Post
Great theory...too bad it doesn't work like that.
oh yeah thats right i forgot our main problem this year was other teams' enforcers beating up our players because derek boogard wasn't in the lineup

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02-03-2011, 12:46 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Mullichicken 25 said they are the T-Rex, I am just pointing out that there are still plenty of these guys around.

If you noticed...I left off guys like Jared Boll, Zenon Konokpa, Carkner, BJ Crombeen, Kyle Clifford, Shawn Thortnon, Tim Jackman because the offer up a little more.

The next 30 games will get alot more physical and I know everyone thinks Dubi, Sauer, Boyle and Avery can handle the dirty work but when u have to play the Bruins, Flyers, Devils and the like...we will get exposed unless Prust fights 5 x's a game.
Exposed as what? No one forces anyone to fight! Prust fights because he chooses to. These fights are staged and in nearly all cases, are completely meaningless and have no impact on the outcome of the game.

Fighting, or not fighting, has nothing to do with how tough a team is. You don't have to fight to prove that you're tough. Toughness, real toughness, shows through during the game. Toughness matters in battles along the boards, in the corners, in the willingness to battle through opposing defenders on a rush down the ice. Toughness shows when a player is willing to take a hit to make the play, not during the 30-45 seconds where two guys are punching each other in the face to delight the bloodlust-filled primates sitting in the stands who are too drunk to appreciate anything else.

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02-03-2011, 01:16 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Exposed as what? No one forces anyone to fight! Prust fights because he chooses to. These fights are staged and in nearly all cases, are completely meaningless and have no impact on the outcome of the game.

Fighting, or not fighting, has nothing to do with how tough a team is. You don't have to fight to prove that you're tough. Toughness, real toughness, shows through during the game. Toughness matters in battles along the boards, in the corners, in the willingness to battle through opposing defenders on a rush down the ice. Toughness shows when a player is willing to take a hit to make the play, not during the 30-45 seconds where two guys are punching each other in the face to delight the bloodlust-filled primates sitting in the stands who are too drunk to appreciate anything else.
Yes that's a fair statement to make.

Everything else you said is pure wisdom but geez with the last bit if anyone's out for blood it's you there with that last statement. Watching a teammate or player for your team go out and whip a** logically can pump up a crowd and a team. There's a purpose beyond stereotyping and insulting everyone who might enjoy that. For me the novelty wore off after the first 5 seconds of Boog's first fight but I wouldn't begrudge anyone if they enjoyed it. Being a drunken moron has nothing to do with enjoying the on-ice product. To expand on that being a drunken moron has a lot more to do with being 1 in 1,000 and antagonizing an oppossing teams fans. Spitting on visitors, throwing beer and food at them. Simply enjoying the fight between two goons does not make a drunken idiot.

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Old
02-03-2011, 01:55 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Great statement and I agree. Dubi Cally Sauer Prust Bolye are all willing and able. I would like to add a guy like a Neil or Carkner that play a regular shift.
Prust is as good a fighter as Neil at this point (and comes much cheaper in cap hit)... Having Neil around would be redundant... Carkner isn't very good defensively.... Rather wait until McIlrath gets older than lose a spot on our blueline to Carkner that could go to a more competent defenseman in the interim.

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Old
02-03-2011, 02:00 PM
  #125
Orr Nightmare
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Exposed as what? No one forces anyone to fight! Prust fights because he chooses to. These fights are staged and in nearly all cases, are completely meaningless and have no impact on the outcome of the game.

Fighting, or not fighting, has nothing to do with how tough a team is. You don't have to fight to prove that you're tough. Toughness, real toughness, shows through during the game. Toughness matters in battles along the boards, in the corners, in the willingness to battle through opposing defenders on a rush down the ice. Toughness shows when a player is willing to take a hit to make the play, not during the 30-45 seconds where two guys are punching each other in the face to delight the bloodlust-filled primates sitting in the stands who are too drunk to appreciate anything else.
Man, the wisdom!

Too bad the entire hockey world disagree's with you and to the delight of all the primates.

There have been 852 fights in hockey this year...you should find a different sport.

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