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02-03-2011, 02:50 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Well the back end of this would be that the original trade for Eminger never happened, which means we in theory could have had Carlson instead of Carle on the defense. So in that case the salaries would fit, and that team would be a much better squad than what we have to offer right now, basically replacing Zherdev and Nodl with Gagne and Downie.
they also could have had jagr and forsberg, along with chris simon (he shoudl have returned at some point, very surprised he never did)

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02-03-2011, 03:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
they also could have had jagr and forsberg, along with chris simon (he shoudl have returned at some point, very surprised he never did)
As much as I loved the Lindros era and hindsight is 20/20, I would have loved to have had that trade back, maybe they could have even had a tandem of Hextall and Jose Theodore for those years too?

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02-03-2011, 03:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Well the back end of this would be that the original trade for Eminger never happened, which means we in theory could have had Carlson instead of Carle on the defense. So in that case the salaries would fit, and that team would be a much better squad than what we have to offer right now, basically replacing Zherdev and Nodl with Gagne and Downie.
That is FAR too speculative. There is no telling what would have happened had we not made trade X, Y, or Z. Maybe Downie would have been traded somewhere else. Maybe Gagne would have been. Maybe the Flyers picked someone other than Carlson. Maybe Downie suffers a career ending injury the day after the trade in question didn't go down. It is not as simple as taking away a trade and assuming things would have gone some way.

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02-03-2011, 03:17 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That is FAR too speculative. There is no telling what would have happened had we not made trade X, Y, or Z. Maybe Downie would have been traded somewhere else. Maybe Gagne would have been. Maybe the Flyers picked someone other than Carlson. Maybe Downie suffers a career ending injury the day after the trade in question didn't go down. It is not as simple as traking away a trade and assuming things would have gone some way.
I am going back directly to the Eminger trade for the 1st rd pick, that set in motion everything else. Of course it is all speculation, but if no moves were made and they did pick Carlson with that pick that is a pretty stalwart set of fwds. And again, this is all hypothetical because moves were made, but the one move that set in motion all others was that foolish trade for Eminger because he had a good series against the Flyers in the playoffs.

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02-03-2011, 03:18 PM
  #105
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Markstrom could have been drafted with that pick too

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02-03-2011, 03:21 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I am going back directly to the Eminger trade for the 1st rd pick, that set in motion everything else. Of course it is all speculation, but if no moves were made and they did pick Carlson with that pick that is a pretty stalwart set of fwds. And again, this is all hypothetical because moves were made, but the one move that set in motion all others was that foolish trade for Eminger because he had a good series against the Flyers in the playoffs.
Kinda like picking Shelley up because he had a goal in each of the last 2 games last year. Too bad Holmgren didn't look to see what he did the rest of the year...

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02-03-2011, 03:27 PM
  #107
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Kinda like picking Shelley up because he had a goal in each of the last 2 games last year. Too bad Holmgren didn't look to see what he did the rest of the year...
Yes, Shelley had some good play against the Flyers. Homer has done this a lot with his pickups. The only player he has failed to nab is Fedotenko, but Miettenin(sp?) has been a Flyer killer in the past so maybe our luck will change?

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02-03-2011, 03:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Yes, Shelley had some good play against the Flyers. Homer has done this a lot with his pickups. The only player he has failed to nab is Fedotenko, but Miettenin(sp?) has been a Flyer killer in the past so maybe our luck will change?
I wouldn't have minded getting Nathan Horton from Florida, before he went to Boston, because he seemed to have our number, too.

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02-03-2011, 03:36 PM
  #109
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Kinda like picking Shelley up because he had a goal in each of the last 2 games last year. Too bad Holmgren didn't look to see what he did the rest of the year...
I am assuming this is tongue in cheek. You seem a more intelligent poster then to think he was picked up on those last two games.

The Flyers were looking for a legit enforcer and Shelley had 7 years of being one of the top H/Ws in the league and was a F/A. I mean really, the guy has been in the league long enough and the Flyers have these guys called scouts that may have seen him play a game or two before last season. Besides, Clarke suggested that Homer go after Shelley because he was a good enforcer and good in the locker room.

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02-03-2011, 03:39 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Yes, Shelley had some good play against the Flyers. Homer has done this a lot with his pickups. The only player he has failed to nab is Fedotenko, but Miettenin(sp?) has been a Flyer killer in the past so maybe our luck will change?
Like who? I am not being argumentative, I just can't think of any that he has picked up that fit this bill.

I am not a fan of Missthenetagain.

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02-03-2011, 03:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I am assuming this is tongue in cheek. You seem a more intelligent poster then to think he was picked up on those last two games.

The Flyers were looking for a legit enforcer and Shelley had 7 years of being one of the top H/Ws in the league and was a F/A. I mean really, the guy has been in the league long enough and the Flyers have these guys called scouts that may have seen him play a game or two before last season. Besides, Clarke suggested that Homer go after Shelley because he was a good enforcer and good in the locker room.
that was absolutely part of the reason. He isnt a top heavyweight imo, never really liekd him much as a fighter.

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02-03-2011, 03:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I am assuming this is tongue in cheek. You seem a more intelligent poster then to think he was picked up on those last two games.

The Flyers were looking for a legit enforcer and Shelley had 7 years of being one of the top H/Ws in the league and was a F/A. I mean really, the guy has been in the league long enough and the Flyers have these guys called scouts that may have seen him play a game or two before last season. Besides, Clarke suggested that Homer go after Shelley because he was a good enforcer and good in the locker room.
It's actually a fairly accurate representation of how Shelley got on Holmgren's RADAR, as relayed by the beat writers and PGL staff at the opening of free agency.

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02-03-2011, 11:22 PM
  #113
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I just want Lappy back and ready for the playoffs

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02-03-2011, 11:25 PM
  #114
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I'm fine with the Lindros trade.

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Old
02-04-2011, 12:47 AM
  #115
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No it's not and no there isn't. You've got to be blind or you just don't watch.
yep I agree. His board work and play was pretty good earlier in the season and like I said earlier teams have adjusted to his play and have found his weaknesses and now we see Nodl as a struggling hockey player. He is still young tho and I dont want to give up on him, but right now they need to find someone that can score goals. right now there are no other options. I dont think there is anyone with the Phantoms that can step in so until they go out and make a move I think we are going to have to deal with Nodl on a scoring line.

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02-04-2011, 07:41 AM
  #116
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that was absolutely part of the reason. He isnt a top heavyweight imo, never really liekd him much as a fighter.
I wasn't a big Shelley fan either. Never liked those peek-a-boo fighters like Shelley and Peters but he was a top H/W. Atleast top ten.

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02-04-2011, 07:44 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
It's actually a fairly accurate representation of how Shelley got on Holmgren's RADAR, as relayed by the beat writers and PGL staff at the opening of free agency.
Do you really think Homer didn't know who Shelley was? It wasn't relayed to the reporters, it was an assumption from the uneducated hockey beat writers in the town that didn't know a thing about Shelley so they made that assumption.

If anything Shelley got on Homer's radar when he dropped Orr last season. Orr did a lot of running around last season against the Flyers.

Homer said they wanted to add size and toughness and Clarke suggested that he go after Shelley.

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02-04-2011, 08:30 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Do you really think Homer didn't know who Shelley was? It wasn't relayed to the reporters, it was an assumption from the uneducated hockey beat writers in the town that didn't know a thing about Shelley so they made that assumption.

If anything Shelley got on Homer's radar when he dropped Orr last season. Orr did a lot of running around last season against the Flyers.

Homer said they wanted to add size and toughness and Clarke suggested that he go after Shelley.
Actually, it was Keith Jones who said it. But yeah, Keith Jones doesn't know anything about hockey.

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02-04-2011, 08:59 AM
  #119
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Actually, it was Keith Jones who said it. But yeah, Keith Jones doesn't know anything about hockey.
Yeah, Jones and Coates say it each time the Flyers play the Rags but they are saying as filler for conversation not as fact.

So the Flyers knew who some 20 year goalie playing in a Russian hockey league was but they didn't know about Jody Shelley until he played those two games against the Flyers last season?

Maybe you guys are right and the Flyer's organization didn't scout any teams or even watch other games for the past 7+ years Shelley's been in the league. Their TVs are locked on COMCAST so they only know about players that the Flyers play against.

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02-04-2011, 09:09 AM
  #120
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Yeah, Jones and Coates say it each time the Flyers play the Rags but they are saying as filler for conversation not as fact.

So the Flyers knew who some 20 year goalie playing in a Russian hockey league was but they didn't know about Jody Shelley until he played those two games against the Flyers last season?

Maybe you guys are right and the Flyer's organization didn't scout any teams or even watch other games for the past 7+ years Shelley's been in the league. Their TVs are locked on COMCAST so they only know about players that the Flyers play against.
I never said Holmgren didn't know who Shelley was. I said those two games put Shelley on Holmgren's RADAR - as in "acquisition RADAR." But let's not take the word of the guys who know and speak with and are around Holmgren on a daily basis who came out and said as much. Let's take your word for it.

Holmgren has cherished Shelley since the dawn of mankind.

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02-04-2011, 09:23 AM
  #121
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we need a 3rd line scoring/gritty winger to play with richie....bonus if they could kill penalties... personally if we could get erik cole for cheap it would be huge, he adds that speed down the wing that richie could thread to

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02-04-2011, 09:25 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm fine with the Lindros trade.
I am a little, but not really. Obviously the guy had a lot of talent and the size to make him a legend, but to give up that much for a player who has never stepped foot on NHL ice is a bad move IMO. I know Lindros played great until the injuries started, but the Avalanche (Nordiques) basically got two Stanley Cups out of the deal. I mean when you lay it all out and look at who was traded to get him, it is just so lopsided. I wouldn't even trade that much for a Crosby or Ovechkin now, let alone before they ever play in the NHL.

EDIT: Here's the original trade...

TO Nordiques
Mike Ricci, Peter Forsberg, Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, 1993 1st Rounder (Jocelyn Thibault), 1994 1st Rounder (Nolan Baumgartner) and $15 million US

TO: Flyers
Lindros

That would be the equivalent of something along the lines of this:

TO Capitals
Ville Leino (Ricci), JVR (Forsberg), Coburn (Huffman), Boucher (Hextall, though Hextall was better then than Boucher is now), Carcillo (Simon), 2011 First rounder, 2012 First rounder, there is nothing equivalent to $15 mil cash so I don't know how to equate that.

TO Flyers
Ovechkin

Frankly I wouldn't do that.

EDIT EDIT: Disregard salary cap


Last edited by DrinkFightFlyers: 02-04-2011 at 09:33 AM.
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02-04-2011, 09:43 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I am a little, but not really. Obviously the guy had a lot of talent and the size to make him a legend, but to give up that much for a player who has never stepped foot on NHL ice is a bad move IMO. I know Lindros played great until the injuries started, but the Avalanche (Nordiques) basically got two Stanley Cups out of the deal. I mean when you lay it all out and look at who was traded to get him, it is just so lopsided. I wouldn't even trade that much for a Crosby or Ovechkin now, let alone before they ever play in the NHL.

EDIT: Here's the original trade...

TO Nordiques
Mike Ricci, Peter Forsberg, Duchesne, Kerry Huffman, Ron Hextall, Chris Simon, 1993 1st Rounder (Jocelyn Thibault), 1994 1st Rounder (Nolan Baumgartner) and $15 million US

TO: Flyers
Lindros

That would be the equivalent of something along the lines of this:

TO Capitals
Ville Leino (Ricci), JVR (Forsberg), Coburn (Huffman), Boucher (Hextall, though Hextall was better then than Boucher is now), Carcillo (Simon), 2011 First rounder, 2012 First rounder, there is nothing equivalent to $15 mil cash so I don't know how to equate that.

TO Flyers
Ovechkin

Frankly I wouldn't do that.

EDIT EDIT: Disregard salary cap
You had to do that deal as Lindros was 1 of a kind. Hindsight sure you dont do it. Makes me so disgusted he got hurt to much. He was so big and strong the NHL wouldnt do anything to portect him. Never mind he played in an era where mugging, holding, stick work in front of the net were lega. The sad thing is had they been able to keep Chris Simon, Lindros wouldnt have had to take such a pounding imo. He wasnt part of the deal i odnt belive but the arbitrator sent him packing anyway.

I honestly cant even imagine the damge he would do in todays game. He truely was unstoppable. If they were all coming out of the same draft, whineo, gretzky, whineo #2, ovechkin. I would take lindros every time.

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02-04-2011, 10:05 AM
  #124
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You had to do that deal as Lindros was 1 of a kind. Hindsight sure you dont do it. Makes me so disgusted he got hurt to much. He was so big and strong the NHL wouldnt do anything to portect him. Never mind he played in an era where mugging, holding, stick work in front of the net were lega. The sad thing is had they been able to keep Chris Simon, Lindros wouldnt have had to take such a pounding imo. He wasnt part of the deal i odnt belive but the arbitrator sent him packing anyway.

I honestly cant even imagine the damge he would do in todays game. He truely was unstoppable. If they were all coming out of the same draft, whineo, gretzky, whineo #2, ovechkin. I would take lindros every time.
I totally agree, Lindros' skill set(hands, shot, passing.etc) are comparable to that of a crosby maybe even more gifted, btu add his size and pure power to that equation and defenseman would have no chance in todays game.... I honestly think he would be a 130-140 point guy in todays game

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02-04-2011, 10:31 AM
  #125
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No one knew Peter Forsberg would be who he became, either. How many late first rounders end up being hall of famers and how many become AHL fodder with untapped potential?

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