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02-04-2011, 11:32 AM
  #1
howztheglass
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Power Play QB

Ok so after watching last night game it has become clear as day that this team is lacking a PP QB more then ever.

No Ranger fan can say that if we had a top flight PP QB that we wouldn't have won the last 2 games.

Gilroy(who for about 10 games showed signs of promise)is not the answer nor is Staal who has been on PP point lately.Staal will most likely become a better offensive D-man in the next year or 2, but he's not ready yet.Torts has even put Zucco on the point trying to get the PP going--while I like him there I believe he should be down low.Where oh where has Gaborik been until last night he hasn't even shot the puck at the net lately on the PP.

So back to where I started--this teams needs to make a move for someone who will get the puck and fire away(something none of the above guys do).

I know everyone will say Kaberle--don't think Bruke will give him up for a small package(aka 2 round pick and maybe Kund/Gilroy/EC).

My thought(not sure if Car.would give him up)someone like Corvo or Babchuk(from Cal)--and before everyone starts killing me about how bad they play defense this is a move to help the PP.Neither guy would cost a ton and either of those 2 are better then Gilroy.Corvo has 1 more year at 2.25 and Babchuk is a FA after the season so no problem with long term contracts and they wouldn't kill this years cap.

Sather will do something around the deadline but this is 1 area that needs the most help--not a heavyweight or 3 line center(Stillman) losing the last 2 games alone with getting 3-4 PP in the third period should tell Glen what the most important.

Bombs away.

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02-04-2011, 11:39 AM
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Marc Andre Bergeron. It sucks that he was already signed by Tampa Bay.

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02-04-2011, 11:40 AM
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MAB makes MDZ look like Staal on defense.

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02-04-2011, 11:40 AM
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Just wait till next year and Brad Richards. Problem solved.

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02-04-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by levski87 View Post
Marc Andre Bergeron. It sucks that he was already signed by Tampa Bay.
I thought the same thing before he signed with TB--again not best defensively but he could run the PP.

MAB is an upgrade over Gilroy as sad as it is to say it.

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02-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Frankly, I think bringing back MDZ undermined Gilroy's progress. I just don't think they mesh well. Both seem to perfom better with more defensive Dman on the other side.

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02-04-2011, 11:48 AM
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Just wait till next year and Brad Richards. Problem solved.
Yep--but the waiting is the hardest part.

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02-04-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
Frankly, I think bringing back MDZ undermined Gilroy's progress. I just don't think they mesh well. Both seem to perfom better with more defensive Dman on the other side.
Agreed--but the problem is that both of them are not on the same PP nor do they play with each other.MDZ should be head and shoulders a much better player but this year either have improved the way we all hoped.

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02-04-2011, 11:52 AM
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I dont think we should be complete buyers looking for that missing piece. If you can get a PP QB cheap then fine - but they usually dont come cheap - especially not Kaberle.

Del Zotto is a putrid excuse for a PP QB, hopefully he develops in that regard. Someone needs to take charge. I dont think Staal will be a bad QB but like you said, hes going to need a little time to develop there. This is were Fowler may have come in (especially after giving up on Sangs), but thats a different story altogether.

I agree we need a QB, but i think the PP woes run a little deeper than just that. Why oh why must Gaborik and others continually try to force the puck cross ice or into areas that are low percentage??? I just dont get it. PP after PP the same mistakes are made. Put the puck on the ****ing net, get people there and repeat. All the players say thats what they should do. The coach is obviously not an idiot and is telling them to do so. Yet it doesnt happen.

They should just dump the puck softly in the corner and go to work like its 5 on 5. Start there, because their puck recovery skills (which imo is the most important thing on the PP) and spacing is complete ****. They are too concerned about the setup, and it leaves them flatfooted as a result. This team is great when its in motion. Once they stop and think its all over. They arent that skilled and their most skilled player is overthinking everything right now. Not a good combo.

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02-04-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
Agreed--but the problem is that both of them are not on the same PP nor do they play with each other.MDZ should be head and shoulders a much better player but this year either have improved the way we all hoped.
I think I've seen them paired up numerous times both on the PP and even strength since MDZ has been back.

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02-04-2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I dont think we should be complete buyers looking for that missing piece. If you can get a PP QB cheap then fine - but they usually dont come cheap - especially not Kaberle.

Del Zotto is a putrid excuse for a PP QB, hopefully he develops in that regard. Someone needs to take charge. I dont think Staal will be a bad QB but like you said, hes going to need a little time to develop there. This is were Fowler may have come in (especially after giving up on Sangs), but thats a different story altogether.

I agree we need a QB, but i think the PP woes run a little deeper than just that. Why oh why must Gaborik and others continually try to force the puck cross ice or into areas that are low percentage??? I just dont get it. PP after PP the same mistakes are made. Put the puck on the ****ing net, get people there and repeat. All the players say thats what they should do. The coach is obviously not an idiot and is telling them to do so. Yet it doesnt happen.

They should just dump the puck softly in the corner and go to work like its 5 on 5. Start there, because their puck recovery skills (which imo is the most important thing on the PP) and spacing is complete ****.
How true are your words--game after game the same thing over and over cross ice passes going behind the net everything but shots for the point(maybe we should bring back the shoot the puck Barry chant).Another problem I could see happening is we make a move and whomever we bring stops doing what we got him for and starts passing the puck all around the rink.

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02-04-2011, 12:00 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I dont think we should be complete buyers looking for that missing piece. If you can get a PP QB cheap then fine - but they usually dont come cheap - especially not Kaberle.

Del Zotto is a putrid excuse for a PP QB, hopefully he develops in that regard. Someone needs to take charge. I dont think Staal will be a bad QB but like you said, hes going to need a little time to develop there. This is were Fowler may have come in (especially after giving up on Sangs), but thats a different story altogether.

I agree we need a QB, but i think the PP woes run a little deeper than just that. Why oh why must Gaborik and others continually try to force the puck cross ice or into areas that are low percentage??? I just dont get it. PP after PP the same mistakes are made. Put the puck on the ****ing net, get people there and repeat. All the players say thats what they should do. The coach is obviously not an idiot and is telling them to do so. Yet it doesnt happen.

They should just dump the puck softly in the corner and go to work like its 5 on 5. Start there, because their puck recovery skills (which imo is the most important thing on the PP) and spacing is complete ****. They are too concerned about the setup, and it leaves them flatfooted as a result. This team is great when its in motion. Once they stop and think its all over. They arent that skilled and their most skilled player is overthinking everything right now. Not a good combo.
Fully agree.....

1) Dump it in
2) Chase it down
3) Aquire puck control
4) Feed the point
5) Shoot on net
6) Converge on net
7) Rinse and repeat

If the powerplay on this team was just slightly better, conservatively, we would have 2-3 more wins this season. Its really going to hurt us if they cant get it going a little better.

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02-04-2011, 12:04 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Special View Post
I think I've seen them paired up numerous times both on the PP and even strength since MDZ has been back.
The PP is a possibility just about everyone has been back there--but at even strenght I thought Gilroy was with McD and MDZ was with Sauer.

You know what you might be right seeing how Torts change lines and defense pairs every other game,except for Staal and Girardi.

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02-04-2011, 12:09 PM
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I'd rather give up a 2nd round pick, roster player, and mid level prospect to get Kaberle for a couple months with the chance that you wont re-sign him than to stand pat and watch games like last night slip away when you could've have very well won them had you possessed even just a slightly better PP. They get on the PP and they play the same style as they do even strength, which is dump and chase and grind it out. There is simply no playmaking ability.

And please god no to brad richards. If he was 28 years old, I'd be more inclined to want him. I dont want him at the deadline (which absolutely wont happen) and I dont want him July 1st.

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02-04-2011, 12:09 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noupf View Post
Fully agree.....

1) Dump it in
2) Chase it down
3) Aquire puck control
4) Feed the point
5) Shoot on net
6) Converge on net
7) Rinse and repeat

If the powerplay on this team was just slightly better, conservatively, we would have 2-3 more wins this season. Its really going to hurt us if they cant get it going a little better.
You know what's funny(not really but)we can even get the first one right so 2-7 are not going to happen.I can't believe how hard it has been just getting the puck in--it almost seems as if that not an option with this team.

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02-04-2011, 12:10 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noupf View Post
Fully agree.....

1) Dump it in
2) Chase it down
3) Aquire puck control
4) Feed the point
5) Shoot on net
6) Converge on net
7) Rinse and repeat

If the powerplay on this team was just slightly better, conservatively, we would have 2-3 more wins this season. Its really going to hurt us if they cant get it going a little better.
And right there is part of the problem.

The Rangers have terrible dump in habits. The D hesitates to dump it in, and the forwards dont have momentum going into the zone, or the side of the zone where the puck will be dumped. The dump in is too hard, or rimmed around to the back of the net were the goalie can get to it. You dont dump it in to simply get the puck deep in the zone - you should be doing it decisively to gain possession.

Use the trapezoid to your advantage. You should be able to create enough space in the neutral zone for a player to dump the puck high and soft into the corner of your choice, while 2 forwards arrive there as a timing play. Immediately you create an odd man situation, and it brings down the rest of the PK unit towards the net and hashmarks. This allows the Rangers D to comfortably enter the zone and set the points earlier than usual in case the opposition recovers and tries to clear it.

Nothing else has worked, so they should try a timing play like this. Its not complicated, and it sets the tone for puck recovery and point shots.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 02-04-2011 at 12:26 PM.
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02-04-2011, 12:16 PM
  #17
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I have lurked these boards for a while, but I had to join in on this topic.

If the Blues truly are going to shop Erik Johnson, then the Rangers have to at least find out what the price would be. I'm sure it would be steep.

I realize that EJ is not without his own risks, as he hasn't quite realized his potential yet.

That being said, he's closer than any of our current PMD options (DZ or Gilroy) and will be 23 in March.

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02-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howztheglass View Post
Ok so after watching last night game it has become clear as day that this team is lacking a PP QB more then ever.

No Ranger fan can say that if we had a top flight PP QB that we wouldn't have won the last 2 games.

Gilroy(who for about 10 games showed signs of promise)is not the answer nor is Staal who has been on PP point lately.Staal will most likely become a better offensive D-man in the next year or 2, but he's not ready yet.Torts has even put Zucco on the point trying to get the PP going--while I like him there I believe he should be down low.Where oh where has Gaborik been until last night he hasn't even shot the puck at the net lately on the PP.

So back to where I started--this teams needs to make a move for someone who will get the puck and fire away(something none of the above guys do).

I know everyone will say Kaberle--don't think Bruke will give him up for a small package(aka 2 round pick and maybe Kund/Gilroy/EC).

My thought(not sure if Car.would give him up)someone like Corvo or Babchuk(from Cal)--and before everyone starts killing me about how bad they play defense this is a move to help the PP.Neither guy would cost a ton and either of those 2 are better then Gilroy.Corvo has 1 more year at 2.25 and Babchuk is a FA after the season so no problem with long term contracts and they wouldn't kill this years cap.

Sather will do something around the deadline but this is 1 area that needs the most help--not a heavyweight or 3 line center(Stillman) losing the last 2 games alone with getting 3-4 PP in the third period should tell Glen what the most important.

Bombs away.
While this is true, Gilroy at the moment is out playing Del Zotto by a wide margin so if anything Del Zotto would be the one to go not Gilroy.

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02-04-2011, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolskii View Post
While this is true, Gilroy at the moment is out playing Del Zotto by a wide margin so if anything Del Zotto would be the one to go not Gilroy.
To me, that as more about Del Zotto than it does Gilroy.

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02-04-2011, 12:45 PM
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Yep--but the waiting is the hardest part.
Yeah and thats what people were saying about Kovalchuk. Those guys who just some how KNEW he was going to be a free agent and were hedging our future on it. Kovalchuk didnt make it to FA. News flash, Dallas is playing lights out hockey, therefore Richards isnt going anywhere either.

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02-04-2011, 12:49 PM
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They have to do something. Del Zotto is the future but he needs some more seasoning so if he goes down that's fine

I agree with the whole sign Brad Richards next yr and problem solved

for the time being see what a 3rd, Gilroy, Christensen can get and if it's a 2nd tier player so be it. Is Erik Brewer any good on the PP?

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02-04-2011, 12:52 PM
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see what a 3rd, Gilroy, Christensen can get
It gets you nothing.

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02-04-2011, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
And right there is part of the problem.

The Rangers have terrible dump in habits. The D hesitates to dump it in, and the forwards dont have momentum going into the zone, or the side of the zone where the puck will be dumped. The dump in is too hard, or rimmed around to the back of the net were the goalie can get to it. You dont dump it in to simply get the puck deep in the zone - you should be doing it decisively to gain possession.

Use the trapezoid to your advantage. You should be able to create enough space in the neutral zone for a player to dump the puck high and soft into the corner of your choice, while 2 forwards arrive there as a timing play. Immediately you create an odd man situation, and it brings down the rest of the PK unit towards the net and hashmarks. This allows the Rangers D to comfortably enter the zone and set the points earlier than usual in case the opposition recovers and tries to clear it.

Nothing else has worked, so they should try a timing play like this. Its not complicated, and it sets the tone for puck recovery and point shots.
Good analysis. The D has been HORRIBLE at dumping the puck in lately. There's never enough time for a forechecker to get to the puck because either the opposing goalie or defenseman has gotten to it first. And they ice the puck on the PP almost every game, which is another story in itself.

They will have to dump and chase more effectively to succeed, because the D's outlet passes aren't working either. Half the time their passes are intercepted or are so off target that the forwards have no chance of handling it. Cue the Rozy haters, but he was actually doing a decent job of making a first pass this season. Frightening stat: his 6 power play assists are more than any other defensemen on this team. That just underscores how insanely awful the defensemen have been on the power play this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think our young defense has done a good job defensively. But offensively, they have been nothing short of a trainwreck.

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02-04-2011, 01:09 PM
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Good analysis. The D has been HORRIBLE at dumping the puck in lately. There's never enough time for a forechecker to get to the puck because either the opposing goalie or defenseman has gotten to it first. And they ice the puck on the PP almost every game, which is another story in itself.

They will have to dump and chase more effectively to succeed, because the D's outlet passes aren't working either. Half the time their passes are intercepted or are so off target that the forwards have no chance of handling it. Cue the Rozy haters, but he was actually doing a decent job of making a first pass this season. Frightening stat: his 6 power play assists are more than any other defensemen on this team. That just underscores how insanely awful the defensemen have been on the power play this year.

Don't get me wrong, I think our young defense has done a good job defensively. But offensively, they have been nothing short of a trainwreck.
Couldnt agree more, especially with Rozy. Thats something you had to give up to get Wolski. I dont think its going to kill them but its a noteworthy stat.

Your analysis of the outlet passes and breakout in general is also spot on. The D hesitates at the red line and it kills the momentum. Tbh Staal is actually one defenseman who can build up speed and carry it in himself. Its what he does with the puck once hes gained the zone thats the problem with him.

You see so many of the same things that drive you nuts. Forwards coming in all in a line and not staggered, D hesitating or not getting off good passes, Passes from the D arriving right at the opposition blueline, thus forcing an offside or making it easier for a PK man to break up the play... The PP unit as a group not using their speed in the neutral zone to back up the PKers. These things are major problems and thats just ENTERING and SETTING UP.

Once they finally get set up or god forbid win the starting PP faceoff then thats a completely different ball of wax. Theres no doubt they have major problems and need someone to be the catalyst. They shouldnt be afraid to use hard wrist shots either instead of always trying to unload slapshots form the point. Just get it down there.

Another shortcoming of the Rangers D is keeping the puck in. When you remember guys like Leetch and Zubov, they always did a fantastic job of keeping the puck in and the PP alive in the offensive zone. They had an uncanny knack with this. Thats something the Rangers have relatively zero of. Granted, these were GREAT players im talking about... but these are simple things you can practice no?

The PowerPlay, especially at home is putrid. Yet, Sam and Joe go bonkers when a call against the other team is made. Half the time a PP is negative for the Rangers and not even a jumping off point to jump start the offense. The Rangers should focus less on the result of the powerplay (scoring) and focus more on the process (getting chances, increasing offensive zone time)


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02-04-2011, 01:20 PM
  #25
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I don't think we get BR for some reason. Also last game was yet ANOTHER of amillion examples over the lact like 4 years that we need players for our PP. We just haven't gotten the right ones yet. The PP is pretty much keeping us from being a 1 -3 seed.

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