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Old
02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
  #51
Chapin Landvogt
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PS) Ain't no way Erfhoff is going from VAN to NYI... I don't believe any amount of reasonable money does that.

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02-04-2011, 12:39 PM
  #52
Mr Wentworth
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
The Kirills will NOT be in the mix next season. Petrov has one year left on his KHL deal and there's zero incentive for him to buy out that contract (with his own money), when he'd make considerably less here. The only reason for him to come here is if he HATES playing in the KHL, and there's no indication that he does. I'm sure we'll get teased again with him talking about it and maybe even attending another training program/camp, but it's all just talk. We have to wait until Fall 2012 for him at best.

As for Kabanov...I mean you really must not be following him if you don't realize how far he is away from the NHL. Both his attitude and production are light-years away from being considered ready. Honestly Kabanov is not only NOT one of our top 10 prospects right now, but he's not even a viable one. The odds are greater that he doesn't play in the NHL than he does.
Hence the use of the word "could" in my post.

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02-04-2011, 12:44 PM
  #53
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by NY_Hockey_Dude View Post
Of course the Islanders are not yet in a position to give up three prime assets for the 1 final piece, but they should be willing to move 1 player/pick to advance the rebuild.
Which is precisely why Snow should entertain any offers for this summer's #1 (a likely top 4 pick) that include getting a younger scoring veteran due for a better payday (i.e. Oshie and STL 1st; Brassard/Voracek and CBS 1st).


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 02-04-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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Old
02-04-2011, 02:40 PM
  #54
leeroggy
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Next Season's Strategy

If we are planning already for next year we need to really think about some of our core assumptions about our players. Before we think about anything else we need to finally decide what position JT is going to play going forward, because it makes a big difference in how to proceed. If he remains at Center that means we can target Larsson if he is available when we pick. If he is permanently moved to wing that means we need to think about a true number one center, which is not going to be found in the draft this year.

It seems to me that we have a glut of wings with similar scoring potential already so keeping JT at center makes sense. Is there really much difference between what the career arcs of Okposo, Grabner, Moulson and Nino are? Probably in the 30 goal and 60-point range is the upside for all, particularly if there is not a center to play with most of them besides JT.

In my opinion, the only true given on this team are the following:

JT on the 1st line

Konopka at 4th line center

A third line of Nielsen, Comeau and a third similar two-way player that can score 15-20 goals

Streit, Andy Mac and Hamonic/DeHaan/Larsson if drafted as the core of the D.

Poulin as the main goaltending future

When I see Stanley Cup winning teams they seem to have players like Okposo, Moulson and Grabner on the SECOND LINE. Look at how spread out the offense is in Phily for instance or Detroit. Vancouver is similarly spread out. Right now we have only ONE true first line talent on offense.

In order to find that top second line center (we would need to probably look at a team with 3 quality centers or another rebuilding team that might be interested in trading for an asset of ours) we might need to be willing to part with Okposo, who would bring the biggest return. If we pick Larsson, that can make someone like Andy Mac an interesting possibility to deal also. The person who mentioned Brassard and Voracek is thinking in the right direction but Columbus is also looking for a number one center so that is difficult to put together a package for.

The name I keep thinking about is Stephen Weiss, who has had to play number one center for the Panthers even though he is better suited to the number two role. Okposo and Mac for Weiss, Petrovic (last year's second 2nd round pick) and Keaton Ellerby seems to be a possibility. Ellerby seems ready to play but has a bit of a logjam in front of him in Florida. This makes our defense bigger and more physical (Petrovic plays a similar game) and balances out our lines better than trying to fill the spot in the FA market.

I haven't checked to see if he already signed an extension but a name that stands out to me for the 3rd line right wing would be Scottie Upshall. We need to add some fourth line toughness and both Rupp and Godard are UFA's this year. Rupp at least can play and should be the target.

On defense, assuming Larsson is drafted it looks like:

Streit - Larsson
Hamonic - Eaton
Ellerby - Jurcina with Mottau as depth and DeHaan starting in BPT
(Martinek is traded by this year's deadline)

John Erskine is UFA this year and maybe he could be targeted if needed.

I'm comfortable with Larsson starting in the NHL as long as he is paired with Streit.

This leaves the biggest question, who to pair with Poulin. If DP's knee is injured that easily, from a fight, he really needs to consider retiring. It is not fair to his future health or to the team that has gone above and beyond for him to stick around and cost this team both a roster spot, money AND the possibility that Nabakov changes his mind once he sees the changes made. If Nabakov does not want to play with us the usual UFA goalie possibilities are out there.

Names like Conklin, Hedberg, Erik Ersberg, even a Josh Harding whoi has had success in the NHL and has been sort of forgotten because of injuries could fit into the slot. We might even have to do what Garth did before and sign two of them.

This makes our lineup look something like this:

Moulson - JT - Grabner
Nino - Weiss - PAP or Upshall
Comeau - Nielsen - Upshall or PA
Rupp - Konopka - ??

Streit - Larsson
Hamonic - Eaton
Ellerby - Jurcina

Poulin
Conklin
Harding

Allows the rest of our kids to keep developing at the right pace!!

As Forrest Gump said, 'I think I'll rest now' . . .

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Old
02-04-2011, 03:21 PM
  #55
SLAPSHOT723
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Did you just trade Okposo and MacDonald? Forever burn in hell!

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Old
02-04-2011, 03:27 PM
  #56
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I'd love to add Weiss, but are you serious? Okposo and MacDonald are the last players who'll be traded.

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02-04-2011, 03:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
If we are planning already for next year we need to really think about some of our core assumptions about our players. Before we think about anything else we need to finally decide what position JT is going to play going forward, because it makes a big difference in how to proceed. If he remains at Center that means we can target Larsson if he is available when we pick. If he is permanently moved to wing that means we need to think about a true number one center, which is not going to be found in the draft this year.

It seems to me that we have a glut of wings with similar scoring potential already so keeping JT at center makes sense. Is there really much difference between what the career arcs of Okposo, Grabner, Moulson and Nino are? Probably in the 30 goal and 60-point range is the upside for all, particularly if there is not a center to play with most of them besides JT.

In my opinion, the only true given on this team are the following:

JT on the 1st line

Konopka at 4th line center

A third line of Nielsen, Comeau and a third similar two-way player that can score 15-20 goals

Streit, Andy Mac and Hamonic/DeHaan/Larsson if drafted as the core of the D.

Poulin as the main goaltending future

When I see Stanley Cup winning teams they seem to have players like Okposo, Moulson and Grabner on the SECOND LINE. Look at how spread out the offense is in Phily for instance or Detroit. Vancouver is similarly spread out. Right now we have only ONE true first line talent on offense.

In order to find that top second line center (we would need to probably look at a team with 3 quality centers or another rebuilding team that might be interested in trading for an asset of ours) we might need to be willing to part with Okposo, who would bring the biggest return. If we pick Larsson, that can make someone like Andy Mac an interesting possibility to deal also. The person who mentioned Brassard and Voracek is thinking in the right direction but Columbus is also looking for a number one center so that is difficult to put together a package for.

The name I keep thinking about is Stephen Weiss, who has had to play number one center for the Panthers even though he is better suited to the number two role. Okposo and Mac for Weiss, Petrovic (last year's second 2nd round pick) and Keaton Ellerby seems to be a possibility. Ellerby seems ready to play but has a bit of a logjam in front of him in Florida. This makes our defense bigger and more physical (Petrovic plays a similar game) and balances out our lines better than trying to fill the spot in the FA market.

I haven't checked to see if he already signed an extension but a name that stands out to me for the 3rd line right wing would be Scottie Upshall. We need to add some fourth line toughness and both Rupp and Godard are UFA's this year. Rupp at least can play and should be the target.

On defense, assuming Larsson is drafted it looks like:

Streit - Larsson
Hamonic - Eaton
Ellerby - Jurcina with Mottau as depth and DeHaan starting in BPT
(Martinek is traded by this year's deadline)

John Erskine is UFA this year and maybe he could be targeted if needed.

I'm comfortable with Larsson starting in the NHL as long as he is paired with Streit.

This leaves the biggest question, who to pair with Poulin. If DP's knee is injured that easily, from a fight, he really needs to consider retiring. It is not fair to his future health or to the team that has gone above and beyond for him to stick around and cost this team both a roster spot, money AND the possibility that Nabakov changes his mind once he sees the changes made. If Nabakov does not want to play with us the usual UFA goalie possibilities are out there.

Names like Conklin, Hedberg, Erik Ersberg, even a Josh Harding whoi has had success in the NHL and has been sort of forgotten because of injuries could fit into the slot. We might even have to do what Garth did before and sign two of them.

This makes our lineup look something like this:

Moulson - JT - Grabner
Nino - Weiss - PAP or Upshall
Comeau - Nielsen - Upshall or PA
Rupp - Konopka - ??

Streit - Larsson
Hamonic - Eaton
Ellerby - Jurcina

Poulin
Conklin
Harding

Allows the rest of our kids to keep developing at the right pace!!

As Forrest Gump said, 'I think I'll rest now' . . .
no..

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Old
02-04-2011, 03:57 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Did you just trade Okposo and MacDonald? Forever burn in hell!
With our record the only untouchables are Tavares, Hamonic and Poulin in my opinion. I think each of the doubters need to read this in its totality not as a few pieces of a puzzle.

We have plenty of Okposo type scoring players in our system, we don't have enough centers.

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Old
02-04-2011, 04:07 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
With our record the only untouchables are Tavares, Hamonic and Poulin in my opinion. I think each of the doubters need to read this in its totality not as a few pieces of a puzzle.

We have plenty of Okposo type scoring players in our system, we don't have enough centers.
No, we don't. Okposo can score 30 goals AND is tough AND can become a more physical presence AND has solid character. Will we replace him with some farmhand we don't know will ever be able to crack the NHL?

So we can get another center to go with Bailey, Tavares, Nielson and our 4th line center (be it Konopka)?

This team needs size and a big improvement on wings WITH size and scoring. So we reduce that from the amount now to get 5'11 Weiss or the 190 lb Upshall who produce about what Okposo should, and we further remove MacDonald a capable top four defenseman who is reliable to get this done?

no.

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02-04-2011, 04:08 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroggy View Post
With our record the only untouchables are Tavares, Hamonic and Poulin in my opinion. I think each of the doubters need to read this in its totality not as a few pieces of a puzzle.


We have plenty of Okposo type scoring players in our system, we don't have enough centers.
I would add others to untouchable Islanders....
.
.
.

I could not disagree with the second part of this post more. Name other players in the system outside of college freshman Anders Lee that plays anything like Okposo. That being said Okposo and Lee don`t even play alike.

There is not 1 player in the system even close to Okposo! It`s absolutely pothetic that the Isles have not 1 scoring threat in North America ready to step into the NHL.
Even if Petrov came over from the KHL, at best he may put up 30 to 40 points his first year.

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02-04-2011, 04:46 PM
  #61
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Not a chance that Okposo gets traded. Okposo and Macdonald are worth a lot more than Weiss. If we are trading Okposo we better be getting a real good young defenseman or a PPG forward. Some of you are selling Okposo short saying his ceiling is 60 points, at 21 years of age he already scored 52 points. If he works hard in the offseason I could see him becoming a PPG player in his prime. While bringing so much more to the table. He is by far the best winger the Isles have, and the only other wingers with his potential are Nino and possibly (but doubtful) Grabner.

I think the Isles should start thinking about trading Bailey, he is still very young and has a lot of potential, and still has value. I would not mind trading him for a very good young top 6 defenseman, or a 60 point 2 way forward.

I feel the untouchables on this team are:

Tavares
Okposo
Hamonic
Macdonald
Nielsen
Poulin

and in the Minors:
Dehann
Nino
1st round pick this year
2012 first round pick

Everything else is expendable in my opinion, and if we finish outside the top 2 I feel that the 2011 first round pick could be expendable, but we would have to be getting a very good young player back.

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02-04-2011, 04:58 PM
  #62
OhNoItsComeau57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy7716 View Post
Actually Defense is the strong point of the UFA class this year. Markov, Phillips, Bieska, McCabe, Kaberle, Ehrhoff, Brewer, Pitkanen, Hamrlik, White and Salo..I would love to have any one of those guys.

*Sorry I thought you said there aren't alot
I agree that D is the strong point of this class. I think we need aggressively try to get 2 solid NHL Dmen here this summer. One of an upper tier and one of a second tier.

Upper tiers would be Markov, Phillips, Kaberle, Ehroff
Second tier I would say Bieksa, McCabe, Brewer, Pitkanen, Hamrlik, Salo, White and I would add Gill.

Who goes where is up for debate, all I am saying is that I think ideally we need one from the top basket and one from the bottom.

We would need to overpay but bringing that enhanced skill and depth on the backend, not to mention veteran leadership would be crucial. This would make our top 7:
Streit, Amac, Hamonic, Jurcina, Eaton + the 2 UFAs (mottau as 8). If healthy it could be a strong group.

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02-04-2011, 05:04 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
No, we don't. Okposo can score 30 goals AND is tough AND can become a more physical presence AND has solid character. Will we replace him with some farmhand we don't know will ever be able to crack the NHL?

So we can get another center to go with Bailey, Tavares, Nielson and our 4th line center (be it Konopka)?

This team needs size and a big improvement on wings WITH size and scoring. So we reduce that from the amount now to get 5'11 Weiss or the 190 lb Upshall who produce about what Okposo should, and we further remove MacDonald a capable top four defenseman who is reliable to get this done?

no.

When I talk about Okposo type players I am talking about their offensive production not the type of player they are. I see 30 goals and 30 assists as his typical year. That is SECOND LINE stats for a Stanley Cup contender. Does anyone think that is all that different from what Moulson, Grabner and Nino will give you?

Moulson has ALREADY SCORED 30 goals, Okposo has not. Let's not canonize him too quickly.

As for MacDonald, it is great to see how well he has developed but would a defense of Streit, Hamonic, Larsson, Eaton, Jurcina and Ellerby/Mottau/DeHaan eventually miss him that much?? Would MacDonald even crack Vancouver's lineup or Phily's? Last year at this time a lot of our posters were talking about how much Hillen had improved.

We are one point ahead of Edmonton for LAST PLACE OVERALL and they have a game in hand. How many centers like Weiss are available? How many of our posters are ripping on not drafting Couturier? And now Bailey is untouchable?? How often have we moaned about a lack of VETERAN PRESENCE that isn't on its last legs?

As for Okposo's physical presence - he is only 6' 1" and 200 lbs. That is NOT POWER FORWARD MATERIAL. He will not be a physical presence, he doesn't play that way. He throws the normal body checks that players his size throw, nothing earth shattering.

Don't get me wrong, I like both Okposo and MacDonald but we need a center upgrade badly, veteran presence and a more physical defense.

My suggested changes are targeted at making us a better team next year. We aren't getting top FA's and we can't just keep drafting. Weiss is the best fit to make us better and IS AVAILABLE. With these changes we can then fit the younger players as they develop. Nino is bigger than Okposo already. Brock Nelson is already 6'3 and 205 at age 19. Anders Lee is 6'2" and 210. You can add size on defense and it makes up for the size on offense. Look at how many small forwards Phily uses.

We need to stop making out our talent as the second coming, the W-L record just doesn't prove it out.

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Old
02-04-2011, 05:12 PM
  #64
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In regard to forward UFAs, I dont think there is too much high end talent but some decent depth. Assuming we can't get the time of day from Richards (master of the obvious, I know) I think my 3 main guys to focus on would be Laich, Hejduk and Justin Williams. All could be solid top 6 additions. My main target would be Laich as I think he could have an Andrew Ladd type impact and breakout here. I think again in an ideal world you would want to sign 1 top 6, 1 top 9 and 1 good energy/4th line guy. If that pushes fringe guys down to Bport or off the team so be it. Even though some may have talent, we also need some veteran leadership and skill. I also dont mind guys like Martin getting more AHL seasoning (and am still mad that we can no longer send Bailey to Bport since I think the remainder of the year there would have been good for his dev.)

My ideal scenario is one of Laich, Hejduk and williams, one of Gagne, Cole, Brunette, Langenbrunner and one of Grier, Chris Clark, Rupp, Talbot or Nichol.

Moulson Tavares Okposo
Laich Bailey Grabner
(Comeau/Parenteau camp battle) Nielsen Brunette/Cole/Gagne
Talbot Konopka Hunter

I think that is an improvement and would still have added strength with Nino and this years #1 coming up

And yes I know this is a dream that will never happen.

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02-04-2011, 05:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan View Post
Hence the use of the word "could" in my post.

Yeah, but by that use of "could" we "could" trade for Stamkos this off-season.

I give Petrov a 2% chance of playing for the Isles next season and Kabanov 0%. It's just not happening for either next season and I only give Kabanov a 10% chance of ever playing in the NHL.

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02-04-2011, 05:20 PM
  #66
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Who would you target

One final post, 2 questions I had posed in IPB comments that I wanted to put out there.

1. Which 1 forward and 1 D UFA would you call the minutes free agency opens and make an offer to them better than they are asking (i.e. who do you hard press)
My answer: again, assuming Richards is off the table, it is Laich for the reasons mentioned above. For D it is much tougher. My finalists would be Pitkanen, Phillips and Kaberle. I think I would end up on Pitkanen due to age, production and eating huge amounts of ice time but it is really close with the other guys.

2. CB has talked frequently on the call in shows about making a trade for an under contract vet. The question is who would you go for? Its hard to think of who could even be available. This was the brief list I came up with and the problems with it:
Morrow Doubt Dallas trades him, good all around but not too many points
Hartnell A maybe but dont know that flyers would trade him especially within the division
Briere same as above plus creeping into his mid 30s so again, a long term fix?
Elias Same as above? Would Lou really move him?
Spezza To me the most intriguing of the bunch. High end potential, still in prime and seems like he could blossom if he sheds the weight of the ottawa hockey spotlight. Cons alot of money definitely seems to lack passion more than you would like.
Lecavalier Cant see them taking on that much term and $. Also appears to be in decline.

My answer. I would see what Spezza would cost. His heart questions give me pause but I think getting away from the canadian hockey media would be great for him. He is one of the players that to me seems really weighed down by the 24/7 coverage up there. If lou was willing to move him I think Elias could also be a good get but at 34 I wonder how many more high end years are left.

Would love to hear others thoughts and ideas.

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02-04-2011, 06:07 PM
  #67
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In my opinion, any scenario that sees us replacing four or five key players is not realistic. While I think we HAVE to be more active than last off-season, I can't see the team signing one top six forward, one bottom six forward and two d-men (or one d-man and another bottom six forward). I suppose it could happen, but it would be tough to assume it will happen. I'd be happy if we got a good top six forward and a reasonable d-man in his prime.

Okposo is a lot of things and physical is not one of them. He is not afraid and does work the corners well, but I have not seen any signs of a physical player in him.

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02-04-2011, 06:39 PM
  #68
Abe Vukota
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
No, we don't. Okposo can score 30 goals AND is tough AND can become a more physical presence AND has solid character. Will we replace him with some farmhand we don't know will ever be able to crack the NHL?

So we can get another center to go with Bailey, Tavares, Nielson and our 4th line center (be it Konopka)?

This team needs size and a big improvement on wings WITH size and scoring. So we reduce that from the amount now to get 5'11 Weiss or the 190 lb Upshall who produce about what Okposo should, and we further remove MacDonald a capable top four defenseman who is reliable to get this done?

no.
Okposo CAN score 30 goals? Damn, why doesn't he? In two seasons (08-09 and 09-10) and 145 games, he's scored 37.

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02-04-2011, 08:30 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Did you just trade Okposo and MacDonald? Forever burn in hell!
This, minus the burning in hell forever part.

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