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Pierre Mcguire thinks LA has to be aggressive at the deadline

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Old
02-04-2011, 03:54 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
April 21, 2006. Draft occurs in 4th week of June...60 days!!!!!!! Are you aware what Lombardi did prior to employment with LA? No he wasn't teaching law on vancouver island...His job was to scout the future. Yet he had no knowledge and no time??? He knew everyone available and every teams strategy but obviously his actions speak louder than my words...
This guy is slick... He has had management by the balls since being here... Why else would he state after making playoffs for first time in years and years, "we are ahead of schedule"? Self preservation. He can make a team but he can't build a winner. Insert San Jose.
Oh... do me a favour and get some old oilers games from late 80's 90's... Bill Ranford. Technique?
Why else would he state after making the playoffs for the first time here that we are ahead of schedule??

Hmmmm.....let me think....maybe, just possibly, it's because, WE WERE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE!!

I know, novel idea, and it takes a bit of creativity to think that far outside the box like that, but seriously bud, give your head a shake if you think Lombardi didn't build the prospect base of this team up.

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02-04-2011, 06:53 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Why else would he state after making the playoffs for the first time here that we are ahead of schedule??

Hmmmm.....let me think....maybe, just possibly, it's because, WE WERE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE!!

I know, novel idea, and it takes a bit of creativity to think that far outside the box like that, but seriously bud, give your head a shake if you think Lombardi didn't build the prospect base of this team up.
so are we behind schedule this year?

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02-04-2011, 09:00 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
April 21, 2006. Draft occurs in 4th week of June...60 days!!!!!!! Are you aware what Lombardi did prior to employment with LA? No he wasn't teaching law on vancouver island...His job was to scout the future. Yet he had no knowledge and no time??? He knew everyone available and every teams strategy but obviously his actions speak louder than my words...
This guy is slick... He has had management by the balls since being here... Why else would he state after making playoffs for first time in years and years, "we are ahead of schedule"? Self preservation. He can make a team but he can't build a winner. Insert San Jose.
Oh... do me a favour and get some old oilers games from late 80's 90's... Bill Ranford. Technique?
DL was hired to GM, not be a scout. Would he have some knowledge of the draft propsects? Yes. Would his knowledge supercede the entire scouting department who was already in place and who had spent the year scouting for the Kings organization? No, at least not in all picks. My view is DL had a hand in the first round picks, since LA drafted a goalie in the first round for the first time in over a decade and he traded to get the Lewis pick, but after that it was largely turned over to the scouting department, which is standard for most teams. Outside of top prospects, GM's usually defer to their scouts.

Btw, about Ranford, I loved the guy, but there's a reason he got lit up like a Christmas tree later in his career and it wasn't just age. his technique was brutal and as shooters adapted to butterfly style netminding, his style was out. If Ranford, or any other goalie, came up playing his way now, he'd never get out of junior or college.

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02-04-2011, 09:01 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
so are we behind schedule this year?
Growing pains bud, everyone's expectations got shifted after last year's playoffs, they either ignore, don't understand, or just completely discount the effect of learning the game at the NHL level is helluva lot different the AHL level.

All the players 25 or under

Kopitar - 23
Brown - 25
Johnson - 23
Doughty - 20
Simmonds - 22
Richardson - 25
Martinez - 23
Clifford - 19
Drewiske - 25
Lewis - 23
Parse - 25
Lotkionov - 20
Quick - 24
Bernier - 22

14 players out of a 23 man roster are 25 or under, that's a helluva learning curve, and some nights they are gonna play lights out, ie, Det 5-0, SJ 4-0, and some nights they are gonna **** the bed, wait until this team matures, when most of them hit 26-27-28-29, they will easily be one of the top teams in the league, and if they continue drafting well, they will STAY one of the top teams, and I think a lot of people are forgetting this,

We don't want a one hit wonder, ala Carolina, Anaheim, etc, we want a NJ, Det, VAN, PHI, PIT, who are always up there....

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02-04-2011, 09:02 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
so are we behind schedule this year?
I think we'd need to see how the season finishes and playoffs go, if we make it, to discuss that. If we make the playoffs and win a round or two, hard to say it's a setback.

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02-04-2011, 09:07 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
April 21, 2006. Draft occurs in 4th week of June...60 days!!!!!!! Are you aware what Lombardi did prior to employment with LA? No he wasn't teaching law on vancouver island...His job was to scout the future. Yet he had no knowledge and no time??? He knew everyone available and every teams strategy but obviously his actions speak louder than my words...
This guy is slick... He has had management by the balls since being here... Why else would he state after making playoffs for first time in years and years, "we are ahead of schedule"? Self preservation. He can make a team but he can't build a winner. Insert San Jose.
Oh... do me a favour and get some old oilers games from late 80's 90's... Bill Ranford. Technique?
Dean Lombardi was a pro scout for the Flyers, not amateur

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02-04-2011, 09:35 AM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
April 21, 2006. Draft occurs in 4th week of June...60 days!!!!!!! Are you aware what Lombardi did prior to employment with LA? No he wasn't teaching law on vancouver island...His job was to scout the future. Yet he had no knowledge and no time??? He knew everyone available and every teams strategy but obviously his actions speak louder than my words...
This guy is slick... He has had management by the balls since being here... Why else would he state after making playoffs for first time in years and years, "we are ahead of schedule"? Self preservation. He can make a team but he can't build a winner. Insert San Jose.
Oh... do me a favour and get some old oilers games from late 80's 90's... Bill Ranford. Technique?
Lombardi was a pro scout. His job with the Flyers was to scout the Western Conference. You do know what a pro scout is right? He scouted PRO players, not junior players. Not prospects, but PRO players.
Got anymore straws to try and grasp at?

Bill Ranford, Stanley Cup goaltender, and yes he had technique.

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02-04-2011, 09:39 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Lombardi was a pro scout. His job with the Flyers was to scout the Western Conference. You do know what a pro scout is right? He scouted PRO players, not junior players. Not prospects, but PRO players.
Got anymore straws to try and grasp at?
Yeah, this as well. I forgot he was a pro scout, not amateur.

In addition, even if he was an amateur scout, how could he know everyone, as Hollywood claimed, as well as every teams strategy? There were teams at the draft with new GM's, presidents, Directors of Scouting, etc who didn't have a pattern, while most teams method is to draft the BPA, which is obviously extremely subjective and not a strategy you can figure out.

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02-04-2011, 10:53 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Yeah, this as well. I forgot he was a pro scout, not amateur.

In addition, even if he was an amateur scout, how could he know everyone, as Hollywood claimed, as well as every teams strategy? There were teams at the draft with new GM's, presidents, Directors of Scouting, etc who didn't have a pattern, while most teams method is to draft the BPA, which is obviously extremely subjective and not a strategy you can figure out.
They don't know every team's strategy. That's why they bust their ***** going through every scenario they can think of in terms of mock drafts, teams trading up or down, etc. to determine what they will do if when one of those scenarios presents itself.

BTW, the Kings should aggressively ignore any advice they get from Mcguire.

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02-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #135
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I think if DL makes a move, it will happen at the deadline. Here's some players on teams that I think will be out of it by the deadline that may be a good fit (i.e., veteran rental):

Andrew Brunette
- UFA next year
- already low cap hit (2.3M)
- on pace to equal his stats from last year (60 pts)
- almost half his points have come on the PP this year
- 14g this year
- LW, basically Ryan Smyth pt 2, but slower (if that's possible)
- Downside: He's not a 1st line LW, so he doesn't address the most glaring need

Tomas Kaberle
- Seems like dude's been on the block 10 minutes after he signed his contract
- He's got 20 of his 32 pts on the PP and he'd make the Kings D the best on paper in the league

David Backes:
- On pace to score 30g again
- Plays C/RW
- Could sign him long term and he'd push Stoll down to 3rd line C (easier to let Handzus walk)
- Only makes 2.5M, so if you want to keep him, his next contract is probably a good fit.

Milan Hejduk
- He's a RW, but he'd be better on Kopi's left than probably any other King
- He's got 17 goals, so he can still bury them
- He's only making like 3M this year

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02-04-2011, 12:52 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoktorJeep View Post
I think if DL makes a move, it will happen at the deadline. Here's some players on teams that I think will be out of it by the deadline that may be a good fit (i.e., veteran rental):

Andrew Brunette
- UFA next year
- already low cap hit (2.3M)
- on pace to equal his stats from last year (60 pts)
- almost half his points have come on the PP this year
- 14g this year
- LW, basically Ryan Smyth pt 2, but slower (if that's possible)
- Downside: He's not a 1st line LW, so he doesn't address the most glaring need

Tomas Kaberle
- Seems like dude's been on the block 10 minutes after he signed his contract
- He's got 20 of his 32 pts on the PP and he'd make the Kings D the best on paper in the league

David Backes:
- On pace to score 30g again
- Plays C/RW
- Could sign him long term and he'd push Stoll down to 3rd line C (easier to let Handzus walk)
- Only makes 2.5M, so if you want to keep him, his next contract is probably a good fit.

Milan Hejduk
- He's a RW, but he'd be better on Kopi's left than probably any other King
- He's got 17 goals, so he can still bury them
- He's only making like 3M this year
Brunette - as long as Minnesota is in the playoff hunt (and they are AHEAD of LA right now), I doubt they are sellers

Kaberle - nice to have but a PMD is not a pressing need

Backes - St Louis would be idiots to trade him...and they won't unless the overpayment is huge

Hejduk - See Brunette explanation...Colorado is in the thick of the playoff hunt...why are they sellers?

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02-04-2011, 01:08 PM
  #137
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If we're doing playoff rentals, I vote Cory Stillman.

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02-04-2011, 01:28 PM
  #138
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I don't think the Blues are going to trade Backes, maybe Boyes!

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02-04-2011, 01:38 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Brunette - as long as Minnesota is in the playoff hunt (and they are AHEAD of LA right now), I doubt they are sellers

Kaberle - nice to have but a PMD is not a pressing need

Backes - St Louis would be idiots to trade him...and they won't unless the overpayment is huge

Hejduk - See Brunette explanation...Colorado is in the thick of the playoff hunt...why are they sellers?
I felt these were the types of deals that would be available at the trade deadline, based on the teams that I think will be out of it by then.

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02-04-2011, 01:49 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by DoktorJeep View Post
I think if DL makes a move, it will happen at the deadline. Here's some players on teams that I think will be out of it by the deadline that may be a good fit (i.e., veteran rental):

Tomas Kaberle
- Seems like dude's been on the block 10 minutes after he signed his contract
- He's got 20 of his 32 pts on the PP and he'd make the Kings D the best on paper in the league
The bigger issue is Kaberle's NTC. Doesn't seem like he's in a rush to move anywhere else and used it in the past to block a trade to Philly. In particular, it seems like he has a distinct desire to stay in the Eastern Conference.

Quote:
David Backes:
- On pace to score 30g again
- Plays C/RW
- Could sign him long term and he'd push Stoll down to 3rd line C (easier to let Handzus walk)
- Only makes 2.5M, so if you want to keep him, his next contract is probably a good fit.
Blues just signed him to a five year extension (4.5 mil per year). Unless their ownership suddenly regrets approving that contract, I would be surprised if he's on the block.

Quote:
Milan Hejduk
- He's a RW, but he'd be better on Kopi's left than probably any other King
- He's got 17 goals, so he can still bury them
- He's only making like 3M this year
I'd bet that Hejduk is a Colorado lifer at this point. Impending UFA, but has a NMC. During Colorado's awful year a couple seasons back, Hejduk indicated that he didn't want to be traded since his family was pretty entrenched in Denver.


Last edited by Brodeur: 02-04-2011 at 01:57 PM.
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02-04-2011, 02:08 PM
  #141
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My buddies are Blues fans, they are not trading Backes.

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02-04-2011, 02:34 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Why else would he state after making the playoffs for the first time here that we are ahead of schedule??

Hmmmm.....let me think....maybe, just possibly, it's because, WE WERE AHEAD OF SCHEDULE!!

I know, novel idea, and it takes a bit of creativity to think that far outside the box like that, but seriously bud, give your head a shake if you think Lombardi didn't build the prospect base of this team up.
So, he had a 5 year plan to build a contender.
We have a generation talent in Doughty, the #1 defender of the silver medal olympian team, a franchise #1 center, two #1 goalies, two faceoff beasts,
one of the most complete players the Kings ever had, several 30 goal scorer
and a container full of high end prospects.

After 5 years we had 6 playoff games.............................

You call this ahead of schedule ??????

Is this what 20 years of losing make out of fans ????? Just money spending zombies without any will to win anymore without any expectations ?????
Right now Lombardi could day whatever he wants and the fans would believe that.
Obviously he is way behind his 5 years plan and the fans come up with strange calculations that his 5 years are actually 3 years.......

Am i alone here with the thought that we have the talent to play for the top 1 spot in the western conference and should have a PP of 30%. ????

All of the bottom 4 playoff teams have way worse rosters than we have, how can anyone defend that fact ????
Our whole coaching staff has exactly 0 stanley cups despite being with the best teams.
Lombardi has always been good in building something to a mediocre point and never went past this point. This is why the coaching staff and the management fits perfect.

How can you guy ignore all these facts and believe all this is leading us anywhere near to the cup ???????

I mean we don't know where to put all of our Stanley Cups because we are always doing right.
But i don't want to accept that anymore.
We are not a hospital for staff egos.......... who doesn't take the team a couple of steps ahead has to be gone, simply and plain. Same for the Management.
I can't believe that anyone here is still supporting Kompon. We have the weapons to have a 30% PP and drive fear into the opponents.
Hell........... even the opponents TV comentators scout us after 20 seconds and laugh about us.

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02-04-2011, 02:43 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
So, he had a 5 year plan to build a contender.
We have a generation talent in Doughty, the #1 defender of the silver medal olympian team, a franchise #1 center, two #1 goalies, two faceoff beasts,
one of the most complete players the Kings ever had, several 30 goal scorer
and a container full of high end prospects.

After 5 years we had 6 playoff games.............................

You call this ahead of schedule ??????

Is this what 20 years of losing make out of fans ????? Just money spending zombies without any will to win anymore without any expectations ?????
Right now Lombardi could day whatever he wants and the fans would believe that.
Obviously he is way behind his 5 years plan and the fans come up with strange calculations that his 5 years are actually 3 years.......

Am i alone here with the thought that we have the talent to play for the top 1 spot in the western conference and should have a PP of 30%. ????

All of the bottom 4 playoff teams have way worse rosters than we have, how can anyone defend that fact ????
Our whole coaching staff has exactly 0 stanley cups despite being with the best teams.
Lombardi has always been good in building something to a mediocre point and never went past this point. This is why the coaching staff and the management fits perfect.

How can you guy ignore all these facts and believe all this is leading us anywhere near to the cup ???????

I mean we don't know where to put all of our Stanley Cups because we are always doing right.
But i don't want to accept that anymore.
We are not a hospital for staff egos.......... who doesn't take the team a couple of steps ahead has to be gone, simply and plain. Same for the Management.
I can't believe that anyone here is still supporting Kompon. We have the weapons to have a 30% PP and drive fear into the opponents.
Hell........... even the opponents TV comentators scout us after 20 seconds and laugh about us.
He had a 5 year game plan, that he didn't start UNTIL YEAR 3 OF HIS TENURE,

So yea, we are ahead of schedule, way to ignore pretty much everything else, but don't worry, we get it, you hate Terry Murray, THAT was the gist of your post.

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02-04-2011, 02:46 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
So, he had a 5 year plan to build a contender.
We have a generation talent in Doughty, the #1 defender of the silver medal olympian team, a franchise #1 center, two #1 goalies, two faceoff beasts,
one of the most complete players the Kings ever had, several 30 goal scorer
and a container full of high end prospects.

After 5 years we had 6 playoff games.............................

You call this ahead of schedule ??????

Is this what 20 years of losing make out of fans ????? Just money spending zombies without any will to win anymore without any expectations ?????
Right now Lombardi could day whatever he wants and the fans would believe that.
Obviously he is way behind his 5 years plan and the fans come up with strange calculations that his 5 years are actually 3 years.......

Am i alone here with the thought that we have the talent to play for the top 1 spot in the western conference and should have a PP of 30%. ????

All of the bottom 4 playoff teams have way worse rosters than we have, how can anyone defend that fact ????Our whole coaching staff has exactly 0 stanley cups despite being with the best teams.
Lombardi has always been good in building something to a mediocre point and never went past this point. This is why the coaching staff and the management fits perfect.

How can you guy ignore all these facts and believe all this is leading us anywhere near to the cup ???????

I mean we don't know where to put all of our Stanley Cups because we are always doing right.
But i don't want to accept that anymore.
We are not a hospital for staff egos.......... who doesn't take the team a couple of steps ahead has to be gone, simply and plain. Same for the Management.
I can't believe that anyone here is still supporting Kompon. We have the weapons to have a 30% PP and drive fear into the opponents.
Hell........... even the opponents TV comentators scout us after 20 seconds and laugh about us.
Still 32 games to go and a young team that has been anything but consistent.

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02-05-2011, 01:35 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Brunette - as long as Minnesota is in the playoff hunt (and they are AHEAD of LA right now), I doubt they are sellers

Kaberle - nice to have but a PMD is not a pressing need

Backes - St Louis would be idiots to trade him...and they won't unless the overpayment is huge

Hejduk - See Brunette explanation...Colorado is in the thick of the playoff hunt...why are they sellers?
I think Brunette is the only one that could any sense for us, since we aen't likely to spend a lot of assets at the trade deadline IMO. It's for next year we are ggearing up.

Backes could cost more than we want to pay, Kaberle just doesn't adress our biggest need and I doubt Hejduk leaves Colorado ever. Brunette might go though.

I also like the Stillman suggestion.

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02-05-2011, 02:09 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
If we're doing playoff rentals, I vote Cory Stillman.
Cory Stillman is still in the league??

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02-05-2011, 01:13 PM
  #147
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Cory Stillman is still in the league??
In Florida, 21 points in 37 games including 13 in 17 games since coming back from injury.

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02-05-2011, 01:38 PM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
So, he had a 5 year plan to build a contender.
We have a generation talent in Doughty, the #1 defender of the silver medal olympian team, a franchise #1 center, two #1 goalies, two faceoff beasts,
one of the most complete players the Kings ever had, several 30 goal scorer
and a container full of high end prospects.

After 5 years we had 6 playoff games.............................

You call this ahead of schedule ??????

Is this what 20 years of losing make out of fans ????? Just money spending zombies without any will to win anymore without any expectations ?????
Right now Lombardi could day whatever he wants and the fans would believe that.
Obviously he is way behind his 5 years plan and the fans come up with strange calculations that his 5 years are actually 3 years.......

Am i alone here with the thought that we have the talent to play for the top 1 spot in the western conference and should have a PP of 30%. ????

All of the bottom 4 playoff teams have way worse rosters than we have, how can anyone defend that fact ????
Our whole coaching staff has exactly 0 stanley cups despite being with the best teams.
Lombardi has always been good in building something to a mediocre point and never went past this point. This is why the coaching staff and the management fits perfect.

How can you guy ignore all these facts and believe all this is leading us anywhere near to the cup ???????

I mean we don't know where to put all of our Stanley Cups because we are always doing right.
But i don't want to accept that anymore.
We are not a hospital for staff egos.......... who doesn't take the team a couple of steps ahead has to be gone, simply and plain. Same for the Management.
I can't believe that anyone here is still supporting Kompon. We have the weapons to have a 30% PP and drive fear into the opponents.
Hell........... even the opponents TV comentators scout us after 20 seconds and laugh about us.
In 5 years you expect a bottom feeder to become instant Cup contenders? The team is very competitive and YOUNG. It's the NHL with a lot of competition. The Kings aren't the only team striving for success. The window of opportunity is barely becoming open and with the youth of the team is likely to remain open for many years to come.

Take a few deep breaths...

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02-05-2011, 03:16 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by ShowtimeDynasty View Post
In 5 years you expect a bottom feeder to become instant Cup contenders? The team is very competitive and YOUNG. It's the NHL with a lot of competition. The Kings aren't the only team striving for success. The window of opportunity is barely becoming open and with the youth of the team is likely to remain open for many years to come.

Take a few deep breaths...
You are aware that this is almost word for word the same thing that we heard during the Dave Taylor era, aren't you? Lots of posters were preaching patience - success was right around the corner...

DT had nearly 10 years to turn it around. Despite the patience, it never happened.

At some point, you have to set an attainable goal for DL's program to measure its success. There's lots of talk here that next year's team won't be as good as this year's team if they don't re-sign most of the aging UFAs - so are we talking about Year 7 or Year 8?

...and I can hear some of you saying "as long as it takes". That assumes that success will inevitably happen - hardly a "given"

Where should that line of accountability be? If we are still here approaching the trade deadline in the 2013 season and the Kings aren't one of the truly contending teams that have already demonstrated playoff success, would it be time to make a change?

2014? 2015? 2016? Ever?

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02-05-2011, 03:32 PM
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KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowtimeDynasty View Post
In 5 years you expect a bottom feeder to become instant Cup contenders? The team is very competitive and YOUNG. It's the NHL with a lot of competition. The Kings aren't the only team striving for success. The window of opportunity is barely becoming open and with the youth of the team is likely to remain open for many years to come.

Take a few deep breaths...
But of course 18, 19, and 20 year olds should become Stanley Cup Champions within 5 years. Either that or they should be traded for older players that can get the job done and be Stanley Cup Champions.

After all that is the recipe for success that the Kings have followed in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
At some point, you have to set an attainable goal for DL's program to measure its success. There's lots of talk here that next year's team won't be as good as this year's team if they don't re-sign most of the aging UFAs - so are we talking about Year 7 or Year 8?
Most of us did set an attainable goal for the team at the beginning of last season and that was to battle for a playoff spot. They exceeded expectations, made the playoffs and scared the crap out of a good Vancouver team. How some expected that team to go from that level (while getting younger) to being cup contenders baffles me. Of course some people can only think linearly.

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