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Pierre Mcguire thinks LA has to be aggressive at the deadline

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Old
02-05-2011, 05:46 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Most of us did set an attainable goal for the team at the beginning of last season and that was to battle for a playoff spot. They exceeded expectations, made the playoffs and scared the crap out of a good Vancouver team. How some expected that team to go from that level (while getting younger) to being cup contenders baffles me. Of course some people can only think linearly.
You missed my point.

Making the playoffs last season and scaring another team was an attainable goal, but was just the first step in a series of what should be attainable goals. At some point, this isn't going to be a young team anymore and the expectations are going to be much higher - either that or this will to continue to be a young team and the current core will have moved on.

What is that point? While it's true that this team has more potential than some of the earlier teams, they don't hang banners and schedule parades for potential. At some point, they MUST produce on the ice.

If the Kings are in the exact same place 3 seasons from now, will you still be willing to stay the course with DL at the helm? What about 5 seasons?

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02-05-2011, 06:22 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You missed my point.

Making the playoffs last season and scaring another team was an attainable goal, but was just the first step in a series of what should be attainable goals. At some point, this isn't going to be a young team anymore and the expectations are going to be much higher - either that or this will to continue to be a young team and the current core will have moved on.

What is that point? While it's true that this team has more potential than some of the earlier teams, they don't hang banners and schedule parades for potential. At some point, they MUST produce on the ice.

If the Kings are in the exact same place 3 seasons from now, will you still be willing to stay the course with DL at the helm? What about 5 seasons?
For me, that point is next season. If you look through my posts over the past two years, I've largely been focused on seeing us take that jump next year. I expect a big move in the off-season, likely at the NHL draft, and then a strong season with at least a trip to the third round. We should have the experience built up in our younger players to do that, mixed with a strong core of veterans and hopefully have added two top six forwards to our stable, on top of what we have currently.

We are set in goal, pretty much set on D, and have a good core of forwards, we just need to keep what we have and insert two point producers, one of which is a goalscorer with 40-50 goal potential. To me, DL has 12 months to make that a reality.

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02-05-2011, 06:48 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You missed my point.

Making the playoffs last season and scaring another team was an attainable goal, but was just the first step in a series of what should be attainable goals. At some point, this isn't going to be a young team anymore and the expectations are going to be much higher - either that or this will to continue to be a young team and the current core will have moved on.

What is that point? While it's true that this team has more potential than some of the earlier teams, they don't hang banners and schedule parades for potential. At some point, they MUST produce on the ice.

If the Kings are in the exact same place 3 seasons from now, will you still be willing to stay the course with DL at the helm? What about 5 seasons?
Making the playoffs last season turned out to be an attainable goal. It was not expected that the team would get a 6th seed.

Yes, at some point this isn't going to be a young team anymore, but in 4 or 5 years with the list of players currently on the roster that are under 25 years of age and what they have in the pipeline, they are hardly going to be old now are they. Every key player will still be less than 29 years old.

Teams with management that isn't patient with a young team will never hang a banner. We have already seen evidence to support that claim.

BTW, for a young team, the Kings are producing on the ice. The Pacific Division top to bottom is the most competitive in the NHL. The Kings are right in the thick of it.

The bold part: Like I said, linear thinking without taking into account that vets continue to be replaced by younger players. How are you going to feel next season watching Schenn, Loktionov and/or Moller, and maybe Voynov making mistakes. I only ask because the majority of people here tend to pencil two or more of those guys into the lineup for next season. Would you rather trade those youngsters for more experienced vets so the Kings have a chance at going to the 2nd round of the playoffs next season? Not very wise IMO.


Last edited by KINGS17: 02-05-2011 at 06:59 PM.
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Old
02-05-2011, 07:46 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Making the playoffs last season turned out to be an attainable goal. It was not expected that the team would get a 6th seed.

Yes, at some point this isn't going to be a young team anymore, but in 4 or 5 years with the list of players currently on the roster that are under 25 years of age and what they have in the pipeline, they are hardly going to be old now are they. Every key player will still be less than 29 years old.

Teams with management that isn't patient with a young team will never hang a banner. We have already seen evidence to support that claim.

BTW, for a young team, the Kings are producing on the ice. The Pacific Division top to bottom is the most competitive in the NHL. The Kings are right in the thick of it.

The bold part: Like I said, linear thinking without taking into account that vets continue to be replaced by younger players. How are you going to feel next season watching Schenn, Loktionov and/or Moller, and maybe Voynov making mistakes. I only ask because the majority of people here tend to pencil two or more of those guys into the lineup for next season. Would you rather trade those youngsters for more experienced vets so the Kings have a chance at going to the 2nd round of the playoffs next season? Not very wise IMO.
You keep attributing things to me that I haven't suggested - never suggested trading anyone.

Here's the question that you keep avoiding: How long do you give DL to produce a relatively consistent Conference Finals or better team? This is what I consider should be the goal of the program - not just limping along hoping that potential pans out.
If we are still waiting for that result 5 seasons from now, are you willing to still stand behind DL?

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02-05-2011, 08:09 PM
  #155
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The Kings making the playoffs last year "ahead of schedule" is nothing short of revisionist history. In 2008/2009, they played well in the first part of the season, only to collapse at the end of the season(not unexpectedly for such a young team). However, heading into the 2009/2010 season, everything that came out of the Kings camp was that anything outside of a playoff appearance would be a failure.

http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...pectation.html

Dean Lombardi -
Quote:
I want to assure you that all of our end-of-season discussions with our players involved a clear message and understanding that next season carries an expectation that we will be playing playoff hockey.''
http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/04/28...-expectations/

Quote:
Going into this season, the Kings had a clear, simple goal: make the playoffs.

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02-05-2011, 08:22 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Making the playoffs last season turned out to be an attainable goal. It was not expected that the team would get a 6th seed.

Yes, at some point this isn't going to be a young team anymore, but in 4 or 5 years with the list of players currently on the roster that are under 25 years of age and what they have in the pipeline, they are hardly going to be old now are they. Every key player will still be less than 29 years old.
Teams with management that isn't patient with a young team will never hang a banner. We have already seen evidence to support that claim.

BTW, for a young team, the Kings are producing on the ice. The Pacific Division top to bottom is the most competitive in the NHL. The Kings are right in the thick of it.

The bold part: Like I said, linear thinking without taking into account that vets continue to be replaced by younger players. How are you going to feel next season watching Schenn, Loktionov and/or Moller, and maybe Voynov making mistakes. I only ask because the majority of people here tend to pencil two or more of those guys into the lineup for next season. Would you rather trade those youngsters for more experienced vets so the Kings have a chance at going to the 2nd round of the playoffs next season? Not very wise IMO.
I bolded the best part of your post, where the core is still under 30 four years from now. Barring any cap problems, this is huge. When people like Hollywood go on and on about how four years later we are back to where we were before, it's this that shows how wrong they are. Of all the players who have played at least 15 games with this team (I set it 15 so Sturm and Bernier can be included) only six are 30 or older, while 12 are 25 or younger.

Of those six, Sturm, Ponikarovsky and Handzus are off the books next year (and their $10.7 million) while Scuderi, Mitchell and Smyth are indeed key pieces, but not our elite players by any means.

Compare that with the 2005-2006 roster, the last year before DL came onboard, and eight players were at least 30 years old, while just seven guys 25 or under played at least 15 games, including George Parros and Sean Avery. We may be at the same place in the standings/points, but not even close in personnel. I'd take this team over the 2005-2006 squad anyday.

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02-05-2011, 09:13 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You keep attributing things to me that I haven't suggested - never suggested trading anyone.

Here's the question that you keep avoiding: How long do you give DL to produce a relatively consistent Conference Finals or better team? This is what I consider should be the goal of the program - not just limping along hoping that potential pans out.
If we are still waiting for that result 5 seasons from now, are you willing to still stand behind DL?
That is the goal of the program. You expect them to be a consistent conference final type team this year or next? I don't. I think we are going to have to wait for that until guys like Doughty, Bernier, Clifford, Simmonds, Johnson, Kopitar, Loktionov, Schenn, etc. are at least a few years older. The oldest of those I just mentioned is only 24 years old.

You don't want to limp along? How the hell are they limping along? I continue to see improvement from each and every one of the kids even if it is inconsistent. What would be your alternative to limping along? If you don't like the patience that is being exercised now, you must want to trade some kids. That is a recipe for failure. Or maybe you think by replacing Lombardi the kids suddenly get 3 or 4 years more mature overnight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
We may be at the same place in the standings/points, but not even close in personnel. I'd take this team over the 2005-2006 squad anyday.
Easily. It's a no brainer.

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02-05-2011, 09:15 PM
  #158
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let me just repeat that...........

We have Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, Williams, Smyth, Stoll,
Scuderi, Bernier, Schenn, Loktionov.........

and your progress target is to battle for a playoff spot after being 6th last year ?????

Oh boy.......... no wonder the players voted for Murray being easy to play for.

Our staff is full of excuses and backdoors to leave all expectations behind.
How do you wanna motivate the young players if anything is allowed ???

Actually Lombardi should step forward right now and give out the target to clinch the division title. It's just 9 points.

But... yeahhh... we are ahead of schedule... who needs a winning spirit

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02-05-2011, 09:22 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
The Kings making the playoffs last year "ahead of schedule" is nothing short of revisionist history. In 2008/2009, they played well in the first part of the season, only to collapse at the end of the season(not unexpectedly for such a young team). However, heading into the 2009/2010 season, everything that came out of the Kings camp was that anything outside of a playoff appearance would be a failure.

http://www.insidesocal.com/kings/200...pectation.html

Dean Lombardi -

http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/04/28...-expectations/
This is one of the more intelligent posts I have seen in some time. I suppose they should have told the players we expect you to compete hard for a playoff spot, but if you don't make it, it's about what we expected.

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02-05-2011, 09:23 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
let me just repeat that...........

We have Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, Williams, Smyth, Stoll,
Scuderi, Bernier, Schenn, Loktionov.........

and your progress target is to battle for a playoff spot after being 6th last year ?????

Oh boy.......... no wonder the players voted for Murray being easy to play for.

Our staff is full of excuses and backdoors to leave all expectations behind.
How do you wanna motivate the young players if anything is allowed ???

Actually Lombardi should step forward right now and give out the target to clinch the division title. It's just 9 points.

But... yeahhh... we are ahead of schedule... who needs a winning spirit
How far are they out of 4th or 5th right friggin' now? Winning spirit? I don't see any quit in them.

EDIT: Don't look now 2 pts out of 4th in the WC and 5 points out of 1st in the Pacific Division and Dallas is very catchable. The Stars have been allowing almost 40 shots in every game recently.


Last edited by KINGS17: 02-06-2011 at 01:13 AM.
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Old
02-05-2011, 11:29 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
let me just repeat that...........

We have Kopitar, Brown, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, Williams, Smyth, Stoll,
Scuderi, Bernier, Schenn, Loktionov.........

and your progress target is to battle for a playoff spot after being 6th last year ?????

Oh boy.......... no wonder the players voted for Murray being easy to play for.

Our staff is full of excuses and backdoors to leave all expectations behind.
How do you wanna motivate the young players if anything is allowed ???

Actually Lombardi should step forward right now and give out the target to clinch the division title. It's just 9 points.

But... yeahhh... we are ahead of schedule... who needs a winning spirit
Oh NOW Stoll can be included in a positive manner for you? You've spent three years telling everyone he's crap with a hockey stick, and now suddenly he's a piece of a core which should be gunning for the cup? Get real. Btw, we don't have Schenn, he's in the WHL, not really sure how he's supposed to contribute to a cup run this season.

In case you haven't looked, we are in some pretty good company. As I post this, we have the exact same record as the Chicago Blackhawks, last years' cup winners. The Sharks, the other Western Conference finalist from last year, is only four points ahead of us, and were where we are until a recent three game winning streak.

We currently have the second best goals for-against differential at +20, tied with Chicago and behind only Vancouver (at an unreal +54). We actually have a better goal differential than teams like Detroit and San Jose. We are inconsistent, a by product of a young team, but when we are good, we are dominant, not just eeking by like previous Kings squads.

Frankly, I expect a strong push down the stretch, especially now that we are largely healthy, and getting the few missing bodies back in the next three weeks likely. Our netminding is very good, and our blueline has played great. We just need to start chipping in a few more goals, and getting back guys like Sturm and Parse will help. Additionally, DL will likely make some sort of trade, even if it's small, to help add to the attack, and any additional offense will make a big difference the way the team is playing.

While the Kings have been inconsistent this year, I doubt anyone can question their winning spirit.

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