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HNIC- Versteeg/Beauchemin

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Old
02-06-2011, 02:22 PM
  #126
T M L
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Originally Posted by Im Old Gregggg View Post
**** that noise

i dont want wheeler anywhere near my team and a 2nd doesnt help much
No kidding! Toronto does not need anymore 4th line garbage! NO WAY! Keep him far from Toronto!

Why do Boston fans always think they are getting Kaberle? I don't care how good the return would be ... I would not give him to Boston for any deal! Boston gets NOTHING from Toronto ever again!

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02-06-2011, 02:24 PM
  #127
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As a neutral fan, I wouldn't trade Horton for Versteeg straight up let alone adding Kaberle. Horton is tin man. He has absolutely no drive, desire, or heart in his game. At least Versteeg gives a consistent effort.

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Old
02-06-2011, 02:29 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
As a neutral fan, I wouldn't trade Horton for Versteeg straight up let alone adding Kaberle. Horton is tin man. He has absolutely no drive, desire, or heart in his game. At least Versteeg gives a consistent effort.
Sounds like Kessel sometimes. All jokes aside, thats to bad cause the skill is definitely there.

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Old
02-06-2011, 02:30 PM
  #129
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I would do the both vancover trades and the boston trade.

I would do versteeg for schroeder + 1st because burke might be able to flip those assets at the draft (where he usually does a good job) for a better player. I know that it is very likely that neither the first nor schroeder will be as good as versteeg- but they have value. I know that with versteeg, vancouvers depth will be over the top and probably win the cup- so it works for them (although at a steep price), however it works for us too. Think of it this way:
Versteeg for 1st, Schroeder and Rome (probably the biggest piece of this trade- lederp wont play)

At the draft, burke will have various pieces to play around with. Our second will be so low, that basically add our third, and we have a late first. Now you have:

1st, 1st, Schroeder.

Or you add a 4th to schroeder for a low first and you have

1st, 1st, high second.

We will also have cap space.

In other words, a trade for a top line frowad would be versteeg + 2nd +3rd/4th, which is good imo

If burke was able to pull versteeg for stalberg + paradis + didomenico then imagine what he could do with those assets. Last year- with that- we could have had someone like sharp. Yes no one is available now, but that does not mean that burke can not stock the cupboards with future assets. Any cap strapped would give us a legit first line forward for those assets.

Personally I feel versteeg was never in burkes long term plans. He went to the market to get a top forward with size and came back with versteeg.... There was no market for what he was looking for, so he got the next best valuable asset in versteeg- for future trades. Versteeg doesnt follow burke's top 6 bottom 6 model. If he could land us a legit forward with size- I would be more than happy with the trade.


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Old
02-06-2011, 02:31 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
So because you think Horton is overated means he has zero value. Got it. This trade is an effort for Burke to find someone that can create chemistry with Kessel which should be a huge goal of his. Versteeg was brought in with that thought in mind and it obviously hasn't worked out that way. Horton who is as good or better than Versteeg may be able to bring that chemistry and he's all of one year older locked in for two more years.

Not at all, just not to the Leafs. Burke has shown a propensity for picking players with hard working attitudes. Horton just doesn't fit that. Horton is not a playmaker. He wouldn't fit with Kessel.

Besides, unless the Leafs are clearly winning a deal with the Bruins, no trade is going to happen anytime soon.

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02-06-2011, 02:34 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Lazy Geno View Post
Perhaps packaging him with Beauch would fetch a good return, but what playoff team is going to give away a big center or LW?
Exactly. Let alone one that plays in their top six.

That being said, both Versteeg and Beauchemin bring Stanley Cup experience and would complement a playoff team nicely.

It's completely understandable why they'd both be highly desirable assets to a contender, but I can't begin to put together what a team would give up. It would probably have to come from a team with a glut of depth in a particular position that could afford the price tag to upgrade in other areas.

I can see the San Jose Sharks having an interest, as they have three potentially top-notch centers in Thornton / Pavelski / Couture. They could use to shore up their blueline with the departure of Rob Blake, and given that franchise's frustration with winning in the post-season, bringing in a guy fresh from a Stanley Cup run in Versteeg wouldn't be a bad idea. That being said, Sharks fans are very attached to both of their younger centers, the team as a whole has been playing better lately, and they have a reasonably safe top-six without any pressing need for a guy like Versteeg.

Boston might be another option, although Nonis should harness Brian Burke in restraints if he contemplates making another deal with Bean Town again. Montreal and Washington are both teams that could use boosts to their blueline and their offensive production, but I don't see what either club would really be willing to offer to make the trade work on our end.

It's a head-scratcher.

I wouldn't mind keeping both guys. Beauch takes a lot of heat, but he's a minute-eater.

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02-06-2011, 02:46 PM
  #132
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Not at all, just not to the Leafs. Burke has shown a propensity for picking players with hard working attitudes. Horton just doesn't fit that. Horton is not a playmaker. He wouldn't fit with Kessel.

Besides, unless the Leafs are clearly winning a deal with the Bruins, no trade is going to happen anytime soon.
I actually think Horton and Kessel would be great linemates obviously IMO. They would however still need a center however. Bozak's time with Kessel should be finished after this season. I'd consider replacing the 2nd with the B's first to help Burke save a little face. I think that would make them clear winners in the deal

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02-06-2011, 02:47 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
As a neutral fan, I wouldn't trade Horton for Versteeg straight up let alone adding Kaberle. Horton is tin man. He has absolutely no drive, desire, or heart in his game. At least Versteeg gives a consistent effort.
There was no trade involving Horton alone for the two. I would say he can be a little streaky but no drive, desire or heart is really over reaching.

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02-06-2011, 02:49 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by The Management View Post
Exactly. Let alone one that plays in their top six.

That being said, both Versteeg and Beauchemin bring Stanley Cup experience and would complement a playoff team nicely.

It's completely understandable why they'd both be highly desirable assets to a contender, but I can't begin to put together what a team would give up. It would probably have to come from a team with a glut of depth in a particular position that could afford the price tag to upgrade in other areas.

I can see the San Jose Sharks having an interest, as they have three potentially top-notch centers in Thornton / Pavelski / Couture. They could use to shore up their blueline with the departure of Rob Blake, and given that franchise's frustration with winning in the post-season, bringing in a guy fresh from a Stanley Cup run in Versteeg wouldn't be a bad idea. That being said, Sharks fans are very attached to both of their younger centers, the team as a whole has been playing better lately, and they have a reasonably safe top-six without any pressing need for a guy like Versteeg.

Boston might be another option, although Nonis should harness Brian Burke in restraints if he contemplates making another deal with Bean Town again. Montreal and Washington are both teams that could use boosts to their blueline and their offensive production, but I don't see what either club would really be willing to offer to make the trade work on our end.

It's a head-scratcher.

I wouldn't mind keeping both guys. Beauch takes a lot of heat, but he's a minute-eater.
B's want nothing to do with Beauch

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Old
02-06-2011, 02:50 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
There was no trade involving Horton alone for the two. I would say he can be a little streaky but no drive, desire or heart is really over reaching.
Well, MIN 2nd and Zach freakin' Hamil aren't really that important.The core of the deal is Kaberle + Versteeg for Horton, and frankly, Toronto loses big time on that.

Horton is laaaaazy. It annoys me to no end because of much talent he has. He also has quite possibly the worst shot accuracy in the league. He couldn't hit the ocean from a boat with his shot.

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02-06-2011, 02:57 PM
  #136
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Who the hell suggested Versteeg for Schroeder + 1st was a good deal?

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02-06-2011, 02:58 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
I actually think Horton and Kessel would be great linemates obviously IMO. They would however still need a center however. Bozak's time with Kessel should be finished after this season. I'd consider replacing the 2nd with the B's first to help Burke save a little face. I think that would make them clear winners in the deal
If Kadri had Kessel and Horton as line mates to break into the NHL with he could very well be the center they need. Kessel and Horton may be the most underacheiving 30 goal guys in the NHL but if they ever find the intensity needed look out.

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02-06-2011, 03:01 PM
  #138
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No it doesn't and who replaces him? Again, Komi does not.

A team that half rebuilt/retooled does not trade a top 5 pick from 3 years ago. It makes ZERO sence to deal Schenn and anyone saying he and Komi are similar has not been watching. Komi is not close to Schenn. It's not opinion, it's a fact.

Also, you're thinking who should go based on the short term?
The only thing your right about is that a team in the middle of a rebuild shouldn't be looking to trade a 5th overall pick from a few years ago.

However, if your arguement against trading Komisarek is that we can't get a decent return, then your should be wanting to trade Schenn because he'll get an excellent return. They're very similar players at this point in their careers. At this point, you have to explore both options and see which one makes more sense.

If Schenn can get you Rick Nash and the best Komisarek can get you is Scott Gomez, we're trading Luke Schenn. If Luke Schenn can only get you a guy like Devin Setoguchi, and Komisarek can get you a guy like Milan Michalek, we're trading Komisarek. Reality is somewhere in between there.

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02-06-2011, 03:04 PM
  #139
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Is that the final decision?

I thought LeBad was gonna win out
I use Leb Duh myself

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02-06-2011, 03:13 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by dredeye View Post
I actually think Horton and Kessel would be great linemates obviously IMO. They would however still need a center however. Bozak's time with Kessel should be finished after this season. I'd consider replacing the 2nd with the B's first to help Burke save a little face. I think that would make them clear winners in the deal
done done done.

We win the tradevalue wise but you become a better team. Guess it works out. However trading kaberle would leave big gap.

I would still do it.

And I cant believe hortons accuracy is that bad. Every time he plays agianst toronto he snipes the hell out of our team. I mean deflects of the top corner and in.

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02-06-2011, 03:15 PM
  #141
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Colorado would be an ideal place for both. Young team that could use a big minute d-man and cup experience. But I guess with Foppa back, I would assume they are just looking for defence to shore things up.

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02-06-2011, 03:18 PM
  #142
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Colorado would be an ideal place for both. Young team that could use a big minute d-man and cup experience. But I guess with Foppa back, I would assume they are just looking for defence to shore things up.
What are you gonna give us for them?

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02-06-2011, 03:22 PM
  #143
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What are you gonna give us for them?
I would add considerably if we could get statsny or duchene but its an obvious pipe dream. They have somefringe second liners with size but there really is nothing that works out between us.

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02-06-2011, 03:31 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
I would add considerably if we could get statsny or duchene but its an obvious pipe dream. They have somefringe second liners with size but there really is nothing that works out between us.
They werent even on my mind, I was thinking more O'reilly and someone else or maybe around Hisson?

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02-06-2011, 03:34 PM
  #145
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Uh... Bozak, even on pace for 32 points, signing for 1M? Really? Is he that bad? I thought he had potential to be a top line centre?
Bozak > J Staal...or so we were told

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02-06-2011, 03:38 PM
  #146
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Bozak > J Staal...or so we were told
I'd probably describe him around a Bolland type. Not even close to Staal

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02-06-2011, 03:41 PM
  #147
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I'm perfectly happy with Versteeg, but I don't mind Beauchemin being traded to upgrade the team, we need to shed some salary on D too, and we have Keith Aulie who is pretty much ready to jump in, he looked very sound defensively in his short stint earlier in the season.

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02-06-2011, 03:45 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Outrageous Leafs Fan View Post
Projected 3rd Line next year w/ a legit top line centre:

Versteeg (3.1M) - Bozak (~1.9M) - Armstrong (3M)

Sure, it's one hell of a 3rd line, but it's just too much to pay, rather get a vet for around 1M to take the left wing or call up Mueller/Caputi.
wont be a problem as long as the leafs dont brutally overpay / acquire an overpaid goalie.

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02-06-2011, 03:46 PM
  #149
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I'd probably describe him around a Bolland type. Not even close to Staal
bolland is way more physical than bozak, not a good comparison whatsoever.

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02-06-2011, 03:47 PM
  #150
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bolland is way more physical than bozak, not a good comparison whatsoever.
Better then Staal...

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