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Parise to Van

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Old
02-06-2011, 07:57 PM
  #151
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You know your wrong when a Rangers fan sides with the Devils fans.

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02-06-2011, 07:59 PM
  #152
kyle evs48
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Originally Posted by Kitsbeach133 View Post
All I have been saying is both players are great ... Parise isnt Cosby and Kesler isnt some unproven AHL'er .... neither player would be traded for each other ... and neither would have add to the deal ....

AND IF Parise wants out of NJ .... you won't be getting a top end player back ...
Parise > Kesler

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Old
02-06-2011, 08:04 PM
  #153
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Parise > Kesler, yet Kesler is being grossly underrated by Eastern Conference fans, prompting Vancouver fans to grossly underrate Parise. Story of thread. Both very good players and both teams are lucky to have them.

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02-06-2011, 08:05 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Parise > Kesler
Offense - Parise , and Kesler isnt far behind
Defense - Kesler , Parise isnt far behind
Work Ethic - Equal
Age - Equal
Leadership - Dont know enough about Kesler leadership role


Last edited by Devils Trap: 02-06-2011 at 09:07 PM.
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02-06-2011, 08:06 PM
  #155
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This thread is still silly.

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02-06-2011, 08:10 PM
  #156
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Yeah, Pronger, Luongo, Thornton and Heatley sure got an equal calibre player back. The proposal is brutal, but if you're trading Parise, you're going to get screwed on the return.

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02-06-2011, 08:33 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Yeah, Pronger, Luongo, Thornton and Heatley sure got an equal calibre player back. The proposal is brutal, but if you're trading Parise, you're going to get screwed on the return.
Looking that most recent deal...

Pronger = Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, first-round picks in 2009 and 2010 and a conditional third-round pick in 2010 or 2011.


I'd say that is pretty significant if you ask me.

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02-06-2011, 08:34 PM
  #158
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You know your wrong when a Rangers fan sides with the Devils fans.
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02-06-2011, 08:41 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Yeah, Pronger, Luongo, Thornton and Heatley sure got an equal calibre player back. The proposal is brutal, but if you're trading Parise, you're going to get screwed on the return.
This !!!

You just dont see a top end player going one way and a top end player + coming back ...

People just need to remember Kesler would have more goals if he was getting top line minutes! The reason hes having a great year this year is because he's on the 1st pp unit. Hes gotten most of his goals playing against the other teams top line.

Again I think Parise is a great player he just not worth more Kesler at the moment

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02-06-2011, 08:44 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Yeah, Pronger, Luongo, Thornton and Heatley sure got an equal calibre player back. The proposal is brutal, but if you're trading Parise, you're going to get screwed on the return.
Wow.

Luongo: Goalie's never get back significant returns
Heatley: Forced a trade and would only waive NTC for Sharks, therefore lowering his value
Pronger: Got an incredibly solid package back, but was 35 at the time.
Thornton: Exception, not the rule. It was just a bad trade by the Bruins, plain and simple

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02-06-2011, 08:48 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
The Devils hangup
Bill Cosby hangs up

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02-06-2011, 08:52 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Wow.

Luongo: Goalie's never get back significant returns
Heatley: Forced a trade and would only waive NTC for Sharks, therefore lowering his value
Pronger: Got an incredibly solid package back, but was 35 at the time.
Thornton: Exception, not the rule. It was just a bad trade by the Bruins, plain and simple
LOL so keep going then ... Find me a trade (that wasnt in the 80's where hafe a team would be traded) where a top end telent was traded and got back another top end talent + back ??? all the talk about Kesler or Edler + back for Parise is just simply a joke

Pronger got a soild package ... but it wasnt anything what you guys are thinking your getting .... thats my point ... your looking at a Roster prospect and a couple picks maybe alittle more or less depending on who is involved!

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02-06-2011, 08:57 PM
  #163
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Quote:
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Bill Cosby hangs up
lol that deal is rejected quickly by NJ

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02-06-2011, 09:05 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
Offense - Parise , and Kesler isnt far behind
Defense - Kesler , Parise isnt far behind
Work Ethic - Parise
Age - Equal
Leadership - Dont know enough about Kesler leadership role
I believe they're tied in work ethic, tbh. Nobody in the world would have dreamed Kesler's wrist shot would have been as lethal as it is today. Some posters (not going to name names) went as far to say that his wrister couldn't even break a pane of glass. He's been going over it every summer and improving that facet of his game, along with others. Very much lets his game do the talking now.

Don't know much about Parise's leadership qualities, but Kes is an Ass. Cap. on the Canucks. He's definitely gone from third-line pest to first line center due to various factors but the most significant one in my mind would be his father calling him out and the birth of his kids. His demeanor on and off the ice has changed drastically... really emerging as one of the key locker room guys he was touted to be when he was drafted. Come a long way from the 'St. Louis' Kesler he's notorious for.

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02-06-2011, 09:07 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saren View Post
I believe they're tied in work ethic, tbh. Nobody in the world would have dreamed Kesler's wrist shot would have been as lethal as it is today. Some posters (not going to name names) went as far to say that his wrister couldn't even break a pane of glass. He's been going over it every summer and improving that facet of his game, along with others. Very much lets his game do the talking now.

Don't know much about Parise's leadership qualities, but Kes is an Ass. Cap. on the Canucks. He's definitely gone from third-line pest to first line center due to various factors but the most significant one in my mind would be his father calling him out and the birth of his kids. His demeanor on and off the ice has changed drastically... really emerging as one of the key locker room guys he was touted to be when he was drafted. Come a long way from the 'St. Louis' Kesler he's notorious for.
ok thanks so thanks about equal leadership, and I agree Kesler's offensive game has improved by alot.

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02-06-2011, 09:11 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Kitsbeach133 View Post
LOL so keep going then ... Find me a trade (that wasnt in the 80's where hafe a team would be traded) where a top end telent was traded and got back another top end talent + back ??? all the talk about Kesler or Edler + back for Parise is just simply a joke

Pronger got a soild package ... but it wasnt anything what you guys are thinking your getting .... thats my point ... your looking at a Roster prospect and a couple picks maybe alittle more or less depending on who is involved!
I really can't, because players like Parise, a 25 year old 40 goal scorer, just aren't traded. Despite what some people think, keeping Parise will NOT be a cap casualty for the Devils, and it seems like he enjoys it here in NJ and loves the organization. I would be incredibly surprised if he wanted out.

Teams would be lining up at the Lou's door to try and acquire Parise if he was made available. Edler + 1st is not an outlandish price by any means, considering what some other teams could offer.

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02-06-2011, 09:15 PM
  #167
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I love Parise. One of my favourite players. Devils should (and almost certainly will) re-sign him to a long term contract and make him a devil for life.

With that said, there are serious risks attached to him. He's broken PPG once 90p and 40g exactly once each in his career. He's recovering from a major surgery right now. Exactly what Parise are you going to be getting next year? Are you getting a 35g-45a-80p Parise with terrific two way play? Are you getting a 45g-45a-90p Parise with terrific two way play? The stats may not look all that different but one of those players is a top-10 forward in the league, the other is on the outside of top-15 looking in.

I would not trade Kesler for Parise simply because Kesler has a guaranteed contract for the next 5 years at a decent price and is a center. That is not me trying to say Kesler is more proven or even a better player but there are a lot of questions Parise will answer next season.

Similarly, I wouldn't even think of trading Edler for Parise. Parise is in all likelihood the better player but Edler is on an absolute bargain of a contract right now and the next 2 years. Parise is under no obligation to sign under market value and for any longer than the next year.

Devils have no reason to trade Parise unless he demands a trade and if he does, Canucks have no reason to send back Kesler or Edler. Canucks can put together a very attractive package of young players (something around Schneider, Hodgson, Raymond, Schroeder, Picks, etc.) but if the Devils want an elite player back, they'll have to look somewhere else.

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02-06-2011, 09:22 PM
  #168
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Jesus Christ. Parise didn't get major surgery. He had minor exploratory knee surgery to remove excess garbage in his knee. There is literally no reason to think he won't be back as good as ever. It's not like football where you blow out your knee and you may be done forever. You don't put as much stress on your knee in hockey as in other sports. I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.

If Franzen can come back from a torn ACL without a single hitch, then Parise can and will come back from this.

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02-06-2011, 09:22 PM
  #169
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Bertuzzi was coming off of a 71 point season when he was traded for Luongo...

Anaheim recieved Lupul, Sbsia +++ and Lupul was coming off a 25 goal 50 point season.

Thornton Trade was pretty bad even still it was three roster players and Brad Stuart looked like stud defensemen at the time.

Heatley was a rush trade and still returned Michalek and Cheechoo.... Michalek was pretty consistant 60 point player (high 50's) at the time and he was young. I guess Cheechoo was a flyer but still only two years removed from a 50 goal season...Michalek seemed pretty valuable to me at the time.

EVERY ONE of those trades had multiple roster players...And at the time those players values where better before they were trade....

The Heately and Thornton cases seem more like poor player evaluations than only garbage being offered. And probably fianances had more to do with those two trades than anything else.


Last edited by JimEIV: 02-06-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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02-06-2011, 09:39 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by JimEIV View Post
Bertuzzi was coming off of a 71 point season when he was traded for Luongo...

Anaheim recieved Lupul, Sbsia +++ and Lupul was coming off a 25 goal 50 point season.

Thornton Trade was pretty bad even still it was three roster players and Brad Stuart looked like stud defensemen at the time.

Heatley was a rush trade and still returned Michalek and Cheechoo.... Michalek was pretty consistant 60 point player (high 50's) at the time and he was young. I guess Cheechoo was a flyer but still only two years removed from a 50 goal season...Michalek seemed pretty valuable to me at the time.

EVERY ONE of those trades had multiple roster players...And at the time those players values where better before they were trade....

The Heately and Thornton cases seem more like poor player evaluations than only garbage being offered.
He also needed out of vancouver asap ... and IMHO I think some on the inside knew he wasnt going to be the same ....

I dunno ... i just didn't like NJ fans saying it was kesler or edler and start adding from there ... i think thats silly and just dont see any team giving up anything like that!

Some top end players are traded for a good set of assets but i really havnt seen a trade like Edler a 1A young great Dman on a wicked contract and a 1st for a very good forward.

thats all .....

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02-06-2011, 09:51 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
Jesus Christ. Parise didn't get major surgery. He had minor exploratory knee surgery to remove excess garbage in his knee. There is literally no reason to think he won't be back as good as ever. It's not like football where you blow out your knee and you may be done forever. You don't put as much stress on your knee in hockey as in other sports. I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand.

If Franzen can come back from a torn ACL without a single hitch, then Parise can and will come back from this.
Ah, sorry, my mistake. I forgot no hockey player has ever had their career derailed by knee injuries. If one player managed to recover from a knee injury that surely must mean every single player will.

Look - I'm not trying to tell you Parise will suck when he returns. I'm saying that his knee injury has raised concerns in my mind and I'd be cautious about predicting what kind of stats he's going to be putting up when he returns. And don't try to tell me I'm just ragging on him, I'm worried about Edler recovering from "minor" back surgery too. And that's only putting him out 2-3 months, not 6.

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02-06-2011, 10:30 PM
  #172
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Ah, sorry, my mistake. I forgot no hockey player has ever had their career derailed by knee injuries. If one player managed to recover from a knee injury that surely must mean every single player will.

Look - I'm not trying to tell you Parise will suck when he returns. I'm saying that his knee injury has raised concerns in my mind and I'd be cautious about predicting what kind of stats he's going to be putting up when he returns. And don't try to tell me I'm just ragging on him, I'm worried about Edler recovering from "minor" back surgery too. And that's only putting him out 2-3 months, not 6.
From what I've read, and I don't want to play the elitist card but I'll tell you I have studied plenty about sports injuries in college the last four years, Parise's injury wasn't serious. Had he played on it for an entire season, he probably would have done some damage but he tweeked it in the preseason and it took only a month to realize there was something seriously wrong. They caught everything early on and performed exploratory surgery to see what the deal was. There wasn't any ligament damage or broken cartilage and bones so there isn't much to recover from and he probably could have been back in a week or so had the Devils been in serious contention. If the Devils continue to surge, he'll be back next month and I really have no reason to believe that he won't be fine. Plenty of serious players have come back from much more serious injuries.

If this were football where you constantly plant your foot and put your knee into unstable positions, then yeah there would be cause for concern. Very rarely do you put anywhere near as much pressure on the knee in hockey so this shouldn't be a lingering easy. Parise should be fine once he gets up to game speed and gets his conditioning back to normal.

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02-06-2011, 11:15 PM
  #173
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From what I've read, and I don't want to play the elitist card but I'll tell you I have studied plenty about sports injuries in college the last four years, Parise's injury wasn't serious. Had he played on it for an entire season, he probably would have done some damage but he tweeked it in the preseason and it took only a month to realize there was something seriously wrong. They caught everything early on and performed exploratory surgery to see what the deal was. There wasn't any ligament damage or broken cartilage and bones so there isn't much to recover from and he probably could have been back in a week or so had the Devils been in serious contention. If the Devils continue to surge, he'll be back next month and I really have no reason to believe that he won't be fine. Plenty of serious players have come back from much more serious injuries.

If this were football where you constantly plant your foot and put your knee into unstable positions, then yeah there would be cause for concern. Very rarely do you put anywhere near as much pressure on the knee in hockey so this shouldn't be a lingering easy. Parise should be fine once he gets up to game speed and gets his conditioning back to normal.
I've also studied various sports injuries at University. By no means am I an expert and you seem to know your stuff, but the impression I got from speaking to an Arthroscopic Surgeon (guest lecturer) was that pretty much all knee injuries are cause for concern. It's certainly fantastic news that there wasn't any ligament damage but you'll have to excuse me if I don't share your optimism for his long term health.

I wish Parise nothing but the best and truly hope he'll recover to 100% but I grew up watching guys like Bure... I'm a little sensitive to the whole knee injury thing. Even when there isn't ligament damage I'm concerned for the long term health of the player.

But really... this is all an aside. My original point is still very much valid. Injury or not, I'm not sure if Parise is truly a consistent 45g-50a-95p player or a consistent 35g-45a-80p player who had a career year in 2008-2009. The first stat line describes a top-10 player in the game (when combined with Parise's superb defensive play)... the second stat line is still extremely good but probably sits just outside the top-15 for forwards.

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02-07-2011, 01:10 AM
  #174
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Big argument over the obvious, Kesler in Vancouver is the USA coming of a Trevor Linden...we know what we have and love it, no one in Vancouver's camp TODAY would take a Praise over Kesler, IMO no one in the league Today would do that. Leadership,PK,PP,defense and now offense Kesler is the toast of the day...add in a great contract Vancouver has the leading Asset. One time 20 years ago NJ was the joke of the game (Gretzky quote I believe) under new and obvious stellar management they built a winner from within and a first class system.....something Canuck fans are seeing in the Gillis era.....not a hope in hell will this team (and it's GM) give up more then 2 blue chip prospects for anybody.....we need em to fit in in this new cap era

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02-07-2011, 02:04 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by DevsFan7545 View Post
Offense - Parise , and Kesler isnt far behind
Defense - Kesler , Parise isnt far behind
Work Ethic - Equal
Age - Equal
Leadership - Dont know enough about Kesler leadership role
What leadership has Parise provided?

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