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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:35 AM
  #26
dredeye
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Originally Posted by TML4LIFE View Post
Burke said he has no interest in trading Beauchemin, why would he take thses prospects? It would take a big return for Burke to trade him, a 1st or Ashton may convince Burke otherwise.
Wrong Burke said he wasn't trying to trade him. Meaning he wasn't calling other g.m's trying to move him and that was what a month or two ago.

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:36 AM
  #27
Going Back to Cally
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Someone using HF rankings for anything other than laughing at?

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:53 AM
  #28
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To Tampa
Beauchemin, 2nd (more like a late first)

To Toronto
Carter Ashton, 1st

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:55 AM
  #29
The Fear Boners
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Originally Posted by LeafsFan2342 View Post
To Tampa
Beauchemin, 2nd (more like a late first)

To Toronto
Carter Ashton, 1st
Have another drink.

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:02 PM
  #30
Going Back to Cally
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Originally Posted by LeafsFan2342 View Post
To Tampa
Beauchemin, 2nd (more like a late first)

To Toronto
Carter Ashton, 1st
If Toronto's 2nd is more like a late first and Tampa Bay's 1st is more like a early 2nd which is the better pick?

Either way obviously no deal.

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:08 PM
  #31
Stephen
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Originally Posted by Superstar R Jones View Post
Someone using HF rankings for anything other than laughing at?
So you have a good farm system/Harju doesn't suck?

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:11 PM
  #32
Going Back to Cally
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So you have a good farm system/Harju doesn't suck?
Right and right.

If you want to read up on Lightning prospects go to boltprospects.com. As long as certain people write for hockeysfuture.com they should not be taken seriously regarding the Lightning.

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:11 PM
  #33
Stephen
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Really you are going to use HF rankings

Harju is 25 and could make the NHL on pretty much any other team, but SFY doesnt want him to be stuck in a 4th line/13th forward role so is waiting till next season to give him adequate time to mature, Detroit style.

He has drawn comparisons to fellow swede Johan Franzen, who himself didnt make the NHL till he was 26. And also bear in mind Franzens best season in the SEL he had 12 goals and 18 assists in 49 games aged 24. Compared to Harjus best season in the SEL aged 22 scored 27 goals and 22 assists in 55 games, as well as PPG in the playoffs.

But you are right HF rankings are much more useful than real facts like those.
Oh right, because everyone who is a 'late bloomer' makes it. We got plenty of those in Toronto, thanks.

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:16 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
So you have a good farm system/Harju doesn't suck?
Not a good farm system, but it isnt as devoid of talent as HF would have you believe middle of the pack I would say, remember when they gave Stamkos a bad grade as well? How did that turn out for them?

Honestly why are you so sure Harju is a crap player?

Edit: Ahaha Harju is 11th but Mihalik is 8th. That should tell you everything about HF. Im guessing its because Mihalik was a 1st rounder, which to HF is clearly everything.


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Old
02-06-2011, 12:18 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Not a good farm system, but it isnt as devoid of talent as HF would have you believe middle of the pack I would say, remember when they gave Stamkos a bad grade as well? How did that turn out for them?

Honestly why are you so sure Harju is a crap player?

Because he sees them on the Leafs every week.....knows what they look like would be my guess....

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:23 PM
  #36
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Oh right, because everyone who is a 'late bloomer' makes it. We got plenty of those in Toronto, thanks.
I never said they do, but how many are as successful as Harju?

A year younger than Brunnstrom and his scores at the same age are a lot higher, 49 points in 55 games compared to 37 in 54 games.

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Old
02-06-2011, 12:50 PM
  #37
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No, definitely not. We trade a solid #3 d-man for a potential top 6 and bottom six forward. Do you realize how many forwards do not reach their potential? Beauch is a proven playoff performer with a cup ring. If you want to make any sort if run this season, you will need better defense, else you will be Washington v. 2.0.

I know Beauch is 1st in turnovers but we have 3 Toronto d-man in the top 5 so obviously it is a coaching issue. However beach is 5th overall in blocked shots and can log significant amounts of time if another key d-man is injured. Right now, you are an offensive dynamite team but in the playoffs your weakness (defense) will be exposed...

Anything short of ashton( who isn't even a sure thing), is not enough. Even if those prospects did realize their full potential (bottom sixer and fringe top 6 forward), I would still have problems doing it. We have enough of those players. The reason why we suck is because we don't have any top end talent at forward. This trade doesn't help us at all. If yzerman pulls something like this off, he really is amazing. Two b/c prospects for a #3 d-man with a cup ring. OK

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Old
02-06-2011, 10:24 PM
  #38
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I wouldn't do this, not this season at least. Not knocking on Tampa's prospects, but Beauchemin can eat the minutes big time and if the Leafs traded him away, they would feel a huge immediate impact. As it stands, we are being held hostage by Boston which puts us in a unique situation as a rebuilding team who cannot afford to make trades that throw away the future, but at the same time cannot make themselves immediately worse. If this were next season and we had our own draft pick, trade/tank away,

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Old
02-06-2011, 10:50 PM
  #39
The Fear Boners
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
No, definitely not. We trade a solid #3 d-man for a potential top 6 and bottom six forward. Do you realize how many forwards do not reach their potential? Beauch is a proven playoff performer with a cup ring. If you want to make any sort if run this season, you will need better defense
So why are you trying to trade us FB?
Quote:
Anything short of ashton( who isn't even a sure thing), is not enough. Even if those prospects did realize their full potential (bottom sixer and fringe top 6 forward), I would still have problems doing it. We have enough of those players. The reason why we suck is because we don't have any top end talent at forward. This trade doesn't help us at all. If yzerman pulls something like this off, he really is amazing. Two b/c prospects for a #3 d-man with a cup ring. OK
Don't ever question the #3 d-man with a cup ring.

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Old
02-06-2011, 10:56 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I don't think it's a stretch to say we wouldn't be getting much if we got Harju. A 25 year old who can't make the NHL, who is ranked 11th in Lightning prospects, and the Lightning themselves are 24th in organizational rankings isn't something to lose sleep over.
Your first problem with this post and your thinking. Getting your information from HFBoards prospect rankings.

Harju is EXACTLY what you TO fans are saying you need (big bodied goal scoring winger) and exactly what Burke likes with the exception that hes not American lol.

As for the trade, I wouldnt like giving up Harju but depending on how long Lundin is out, Beauch could be pretty useful, especially during the playoffs. Hes solid but not spectacular. Im fine with moving Blair. As much as I like him, there wont be a spot for him on this team any time soon so he deserves a chance elsewhere. And in TO he could definitely be an upgrade on their bottom six right now.

Its decent value IMO. The question would be if both GMs would do it to change their teams respectively.

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:11 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Then I doubt a trade will be made.
deal

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:15 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
I never said they do, but how many are as successful as Harju?

A year younger than Brunnstrom and his scores at the same age are a lot higher, 49 points in 55 games compared to 37 in 54 games.
if you're not PPG in the AHL by age 25, chances are slim you're going to do too much in the NHL. Not the player the Leafs need, not by a long-shot.

Next thing you know we're gonna hear about how great a prospect MA Pouliot is.

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:33 PM
  #43
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
if you're not PPG in the AHL by age 25, chances are slim you're going to do too much in the NHL. Not the player the Leafs need, not by a long-shot.

Next thing you know we're gonna hear about how great a prospect MA Pouliot is.
Ah yes, the AHL. Where if you dont play there by a certain age, your career expires.

Oh and by the way, he has 35 points in 40 games and is a +13 in his first year playing NA hockey and was an AHL All Star.

Keep talking about players you know nothing about. Youve never heard of him so therefore he cant be good.

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:39 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
if you're not PPG in the AHL by age 25, chances are slim you're going to do too much in the NHL. Not the player the Leafs need, not by a long-shot.
That is quite the standard you have there. If the goal is to be as obstinate as possible, you win.

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Old
02-06-2011, 11:47 PM
  #45
glucker
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Ah yes, the AHL. Where if you dont play there by a certain age, your career expires.

Oh and by the way, he has 35 points in 40 games and is a +13 in his first year playing NA hockey and was an AHL All Star.

Keep talking about players you know nothing about. Youve never heard of him so therefore he cant be good.
Harju's numbers are ok, but really, what do you expect him to become? It's been implied here by a few people that he's top-6 or nothing... so we're not getting a guy who can play in a checking role... The Leafs already have their 2nd line going forward, in Kulemin-Grabo-MacA... Do you see Harju replacing any of those guys? His AHL numbers are barely better than their NHL numbers... or do you see him as a top line player that could play with Kessel? Because if that's what he is, then I apologize... but something tells me that's not what he'll become.

As it stands he's a decent 25 year-old AHLer, who may make a good 2nd liner. Something the Leafs don't need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
That is quite the standard you have there. If the goal is to be as obstinate as possible, you win.
No, the goal is to look at things realistically.

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Old
02-07-2011, 12:07 AM
  #46
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No, the goal is to look at things realistically.
Ok then, then be realistic. Is it realistic to condemn a kid who in his first year in the AHL is operating at a .9 points per game ratio, instead of a point per game ratio? Did you go look at his stats, draw a line above his name, and decide that everything under that line was garbage? There might be two or three players currently playing in the AHL who meet your standard.

Face it, you can't get past his age, 24 yrs old isn't sexy enough. I get it, but you should still be a bit more objective in deciding what is valuable and what isn't; as somebody in this thread has already invoked the name of Johan Franzen whom Harju has been compared to since he was drafted, and who didn't crack and NHL lineup until 26. Harju has been NHL ready for a couple of years now, he just opted not to come over until the Lightning fielded their current lineup of stars.

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Old
02-07-2011, 12:16 AM
  #47
glucker
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
Ok then, then be realistic. Is it realistic to condemn a kid who in his first year in the AHL is operating at a .9 points per game ratio, instead of a point per game ratio? Did you go look at his stats, draw a line above his name, and decide that everything under that line was garbage? There might be two or three players currently playing in the AHL who meet your standard.

Face it, you can't get past his age, 24 yrs old isn't sexy enough. I get it, but you should still be a bit more objective in deciding what is valuable and what isn't; as somebody in this thread has already invoked the name of Johan Franzen whom Harju has been compared to since he was drafted, and who didn't crack and NHL lineup until 26. Harju has been NHL ready for a couple of years now, he just opted not to come over until the Lightning fielded their current lineup of stars.
I am looking at age, simply because it's not abnormal for an older prospect to be taking advantage of the AHL... and I've seen lots of AHLers put up huge numbers down there, only to do nothing at the NHL level.

Generally, the longer a forward takes to get to the NHL, the less of an impact he makes once he gets there. And sure, Harju could come in and be awesome... but it's a longshot, and not one worth dealing Beauchemin for.

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Old
02-07-2011, 12:53 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by glucker View Post
I am looking at age, simply because it's not abnormal for an older prospect to be taking advantage of the AHL... and I've seen lots of AHLers put up huge numbers down there, only to do nothing at the NHL level.

Generally, the longer a forward takes to get to the NHL, the less of an impact he makes once he gets there. And sure, Harju could come in and be awesome... but it's a longshot, and not one worth dealing Beauchemin for.
Hey, I'm just asking that you look at the entire circumstance. Its unfair to narrow his accomplishments the way you have. Its fine to look at age, but only as part of the picture as a whole..

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