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Old
02-06-2011, 04:45 PM
  #76
Machinehead
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Here's an idea; either wait to see what happens with Del Zotto or draft one. We're not winning the Cup anytime soon, so why are we even thinking abut renting people?

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02-06-2011, 05:25 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
That highlight reel was almost every goal he's ever scored. Staal and Girardi both have more points than Babchuk. The Rangers have about as much use for Babchuk as they do the hairball my cat coughed up today.
So you're saying the Rangers have no use for a #7 D that has a good shot from the point? He has one more year left on his deal and provides the PP with a heavy shot, something that no one on this team has been able to use effectively.

Going off of that statement, you either do not pay enough attention to our PP, or you don't watch any of the games.

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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Here's an idea; either wait to see what happens with Del Zotto or draft one. We're not winning the Cup anytime soon, so why are we even thinking abut renting people?


The last couple of games the PP has sucked the life out of us. Having an improved PP can help immensely, especially with a team that has struggled on offense like we have lately. Having a good PP helps you win games, which will eventually help you reach the playoffs.

Even if we aren't contenders this year, getting to the playoffs would be great for all the young players. It gets them some playoff experience (even if it is just one round), which can only good for their confidence and development.

It's not like people are looking to sign a player long term to help out the PP. A cheap rental that will not cost us assets can only be helpful at this point of the season.

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02-06-2011, 05:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Here's an idea; either wait to see what happens with Del Zotto or draft one. We're not winning the Cup anytime soon, so why are we even thinking abut renting people?
Really? Not contenders anytime soon.

I think in about 2 years this team will be built to contend for a long time. Especially if we can land a top flight center.

Rangers really aren't that far off from being an elite team. Just because were in a slide, which may I remind you, happens to the best teams, doesn't mean they utterly suck.

Your quite the pessimist Machinehead and its getting in the way of your logic.

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02-06-2011, 06:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
Ehrhoff does score a lot on the PP, but the only place where he's excelled is Vancouver. He's a nice piece with a booming shot, but he's NOT the answer to our PP woes. Henrik Sedin (you may have heard of him) runs the show in Van City, and THAT'S the key to Ehrhoff's success just as much as his own skill is.

Huge difference between Richards and Ehrhoff.
Yes, in fact, I have heard of him. Swiss guy, right? I hear he has a twin also...

Not saying Ehrhoff even approaches Richards, in fact, level of play is not part of the equation here. Need is the prime factor here. We have center. We have too many centers, actually. Another center would limit playing time for the guys just taking off.

We DO NOT have a young D who can manage in all situations AND fire the puck. PPQB be damned, we don't need a passer. We need a guy who can drive pucks into the slot from high out.

Ehrhoff hasn't worked on other teams? Where else has he played but SJ? He's, what, 27-28? Jeez, he was in the YoungStars game like 4 yrs ago... Richards is not getting younger or better... why have him 7M on the cap for 7 yrs or so, if he's only going to be at his best the first two or three, and possibly (or as our luck would have it, probably) atrocious the last four or five?

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02-06-2011, 07:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by King Henrik 30 View Post
So you're saying the Rangers have no use for a #7 D that has a good shot from the point? He has one more year left on his deal and provides the PP with a heavy shot, something that no one on this team has been able to use effectively.
A heavy a shot? He has 29 goals in his entire career. It can't be that heavy. Let me reiterate; STAAL AND GIRARDI BOTH HAVE MORE POINTS THAN BABCHUK. These are the guys who already can't do a damn thing with our powerplay, and now you wanna bring in a guy who scores even less? Makes absolutely no sense.

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02-06-2011, 07:11 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Really? Not contenders anytime soon.

I think in about 2 years this team will be built to contend for a long time. Especially if we can land a top flight center.

Rangers really aren't that far off from being an elite team. Just because were in a slide, which may I remind you, happens to the best teams, doesn't mean they utterly suck.

Your quite the pessimist Machinehead and its getting in the way of your logic.
It's hard to be optimistic with this team. They invent new ways to **** up every year.

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02-06-2011, 09:41 PM
  #82
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How about we give Aaron Rodgers a try?

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02-07-2011, 06:11 AM
  #83
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it is very simple. but Girardi and Staal out as the first d pair. and Sauer and MDZ as the second. If the first pair doesn't score in about a minute then change.
even Eminger and Gilroy would be good.
It is our forwards that can't win an offensive zone face off or battle to get control of the puck .
Girardi in other years has done great on the pp. he can't do much with 20 secs here and there. I think Staal and Girardi would be great because Staal could go in deep to get control and get in front of the net and have Zuc cover at the point.
It is not rocket science.

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02-07-2011, 07:35 AM
  #84
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Let me correct myself. He did, but the Devils had been working with him from the beginning. Every one just assumed he would be FA and the Rangers would sign him. Didnt happen. Same thing will happen with Richards.

I know what their ownership situation is like I dont need you talking down to me I am more well aware than you are.

Not to mention even if he does, I will bet my last dollar he doesnt come to the Rangers.
Rangers didn't go after Kovalchuk because we didn't have the cap space. Had nothing whatsoever to do with Kovalchuk's availability.

The only way Richards isn't available July 1st is if he re-signs with dallas before then. At this point, it seems unlikely, just as it was unlikely that Kovy would sign with NJ before last July 1st.

Will we have the money to sign Richards? Will we go after him? The first depends on what we do with Drury and how much the cap goes up, but it's very possible. Whether we will go after him remains to be seen. But one thing I will guarantee is that Richards will be UFA on July 1st.

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02-07-2011, 08:15 AM
  #85
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Rangers didn't go after Kovalchuk because we didn't have the cap space. Had nothing whatsoever to do with Kovalchuk's availability.
Believe me or not, but the Rangers had serious discussions about Kovalchuk and made serious inquiries last summer. They just couldn't make it work financially. But there were only three real contenders for his services, and they were one of them.

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Will we have the money to sign Richards? Will we go after him? The first depends on what we do with Drury and how much the cap goes up, but it's very possible. Whether we will go after him remains to be seen. But one thing I will guarantee is that Richards will be UFA on July 1st.
If he doesn't re-sign in Dallas, we're far and away the most logical destination for him.

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02-07-2011, 08:33 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I used to say this board was fickle, but I don't think that even sums it up anymore. I need something stronger to encapsulate the insanity around here. A 20 year old, 2nd year player struggling in the NHL? Woo doggy! That's a hot lead!

If we abandoned every player when the experts around here had written them off, we'd be watching Dubinsky, Staal, Lundqvist, and Callahan develop into core pieces somewhere else.


..and Fowler? Seriously? You guys just make me laugh.
Well, if you're talking to me, I am not writing off Del Zotto, or suggesting we get rid of him. Let him develop, see what happens.

But for those who insisted there is no way on earth we should have drafted Fowler, because we already have Del Zotto, that argument does not look so good right now.

Obviously, being the attack board this is, people will jump on that statement and say I have written Del Zotto off at 20 years old anyway...even though I specifically said I haven't.


Last edited by Jersey Girl: 02-07-2011 at 09:06 AM.
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02-07-2011, 09:07 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
Really? Not contenders anytime soon.

I think in about 2 years this team will be built to contend for a long time. Especially if we can land a top flight center.

Rangers really aren't that far off from being an elite team. Just because were in a slide, which may I remind you, happens to the best teams, doesn't mean they utterly suck.

Your quite the pessimist Machinehead and its getting in the way of your logic.
conversely, they arent that far off from being the devils, who by the way managed to put up 4 goals against Price the day after the rangers made him look unbeatable.
The rangers are a brian boyle and brandon prust away from being a bottom dweller, think about it.
Personally, i dont think saying this team isnt going to contend anytime soon isnt so much pessimistic as it is realistic. there is an ocean of difference between contending for a long time and utterly sucking and this team is hanging on to a life raft somewhere in the middle of it. Where it winds up depends primarily on the dope smoking a cigar in the rafters and a smug moron behind the bench, cant say im overly optimostic the raft will find land anytime soon.

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02-07-2011, 09:12 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Well, if you're talking to me, I am not writing off Del Zotto, or suggesting we get rid of him. Let him develop, see what happens.

But for those who insisted there is no way on earth we should have drafted Fowler, because we already have Del Zotto, that argument does not look so good right now.

Obviously, being the attack board this is, people will jump on that statement and say I have written Del Zotto off at 20 years old anyway...even though I specifically said I haven't.
I believe the biggest reason the Ranger's pick McIlrath over Fowler is that they believed that MDZ was and is their PP QB of the future.With that said the Ranger's haven't had a defense-man as tough as McIlrath since Beukeboom.McIlrath might become the most feared fighters in the league in a few years,my problem is even if he drops the gloves once a game or a few times a week as a D-man we will be playing short handed on the blue line.Personally I don't like having my D-men as tough guys every time he goes off we're down to 5 D-men where as if it's a winger some one from one of the other lines can jump in.While I do like the choice to pick McIlrath over Fowler for the future there's no question that Fowler shouldn't have been looked at as an upgrade over MDZ he should have been looked as an upgrade over Gilroy or any of the other D-man in the system that the Ranger's thought were going to turn out to be offense D-man.

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02-07-2011, 09:14 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by rody View Post
it is very simple. but Girardi and Staal out as the first d pair. and Sauer and MDZ as the second. If the first pair doesn't score in about a minute then change.
even Eminger and Gilroy would be good.
It is our forwards that can't win an offensive zone face off or battle to get control of the puck .
Girardi in other years has done great on the pp. he can't do much with 20 secs here and there. I think Staal and Girardi would be great because Staal could go in deep to get control and get in front of the net and have Zuc cover at the point.
It is not rocket science.
exactly, if the piles can control the puck on the power play with the likes of gervais and jurcina on the point. theres not reason why they should be ranked 15th and we're ranked 23rd on the PP. there's just no reason for it which is why its absolutely enraging. Good to know a career minor league coach can somehow get a team full of ahl'ers to figure it out.

p.s. who else is completely shocked to learn there are 7 teams in the league worse the the rangers on the pp? ...baffling.

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02-07-2011, 09:19 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
p.s. who else is completely shocked to learn there are 7 teams in the league worse the the rangers on the pp? ...baffling.
Alex Ovechkin has 3 PP goals in 54 games and Kovalchuk has 5 PP markers in 52. These two stats shock me a hell of a lot more.

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02-07-2011, 10:21 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Well, if you're talking to me, I am not writing off Del Zotto, or suggesting we get rid of him. Let him develop, see what happens.

But for those who insisted there is no way on earth we should have drafted Fowler, because we already have Del Zotto, that argument does not look so good right now.

Obviously, being the attack board this is, people will jump on that statement and say I have written Del Zotto off at 20 years old anyway...even though I specifically said I haven't.
Whether or not you're writing him off is irrelevant to me. You're writing off the opinion of others, but don't people to defend themselves? Let's try to be realistic here.

People are upset with Del Zotto because he's having a poor second year. Certainly not uncommon with sophomore players, but its compounded by the fact that he had an excellent rookie campaign. Your justification for taking Fowler is his excellent rookie campaign. Do you see what I'm getting at?

11 teams passed on Fowler. Many of them have a much greater need for a PMD than we do. Saying "We blew this one" not even a year after the fact is downright ridiculous. I'm not trying to be an ******* here, but the sensationalism around here is getting out of control. 20 minutes after the McIlrath selection, people were throwing out the term "Next Jessiman." That kind of nonsense is what puts me on tilt.

Fowler is putting up points, but he hasn't been any better defensively than Del Zotto has. They're both horrendous in their own end, which is why they both were considered top-10 talents that didn't go in the top-10 on draft day. Comparing them at two different points in their careers is silly.

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02-07-2011, 10:48 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Whether or not you're writing him off is irrelevant to me. You're writing off the opinion of others, but don't people to defend themselves? Let's try to be realistic here.
Of course people get to defend themselves, everyone is entitled to their opinion...including me.

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People are upset with Del Zotto because he's having a poor second year. Certainly not uncommon with sophomore players, but its compounded by the fact that he had an excellent rookie campaign. Your justification for taking Fowler is his excellent rookie campaign. Do you see what I'm getting at?
My justifcation for taking Fowler is not 'his excellent rookie campaign'. I lobbied for the selection of Fowler long before his excellent rookie campaign even started. You can look up my posts.

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11 teams passed on Fowler. Many of them have a much greater need for a PMD than we do.
This is irrelevant. 11 teams also passed on Marc Staal. 59 teams passed on Brandon Dubinsky, including the New York Rangers FIVE TIMES...in the 2004 entry draft we picked Al Montoya, Lauri Korpikoski, Darin Oliver, Dane Byers and Bruce Graham ahead of Dubinsky. The draft is a very inexact science. Many of the best players were passed over multiple times.

Does this mean Fowler is going to be a great player? Of course not. But being passed over 11 times is better than most NHL players can say.

Quote:
Fowler is putting up points, but he hasn't been any better defensively than Del Zotto has. They're both horrendous in their own end, which is why they both were considered top-10 talents that didn't go in the top-10 on draft day. Comparing them at two different points in their careers is silly.
Not comparing the two at all. Not me anyway. My point on draft day was that elite offensive defensemen are very diffucult to find, and if Fowler comes anywhere near elite (even halfway) that's pretty good...with or without Del Zotto

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02-07-2011, 11:11 AM
  #93
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Not comparing the two at all. Not me anyway. My point on draft day was that elite offensive defensemen are very diffucult to find, and if Fowler comes anywhere near elite (even halfway) that's pretty good...with or without Del Zotto
I don't agree with the statement that certain types of defensemen are harder to come by then others. Elite skill is hard to come by regardless of if it is offensive or defensive. We could probably land Kaberle for a 1st at this point, and if you don't think his offensive ability is near elite, then you need to give your head a shake (people always underrate Kaberle, not targeted at anyone in particular).

People also knock the McIlrath pick as based on need and not BPA, but the same thing could have been said about Fowler if we took him. It's a never ending circle.

Del Zotto is a 20 year old living in NYC. Once he gets his head on straight he will be fine.

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02-07-2011, 11:18 AM
  #94
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Tell me that playing against the Devils powerplay last game didn't make you the slightest bit uneasy. Having Kovalchuk's and Rolston's bomb from the point really gives them that dimension that we are missing. Not saying Souray is the answer but a bomb like his or Babchuk's would be greatly appreciated even if it is only as a 7th d.

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02-07-2011, 02:04 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
My justifcation for taking Fowler is not 'his excellent rookie campaign'. I lobbied for the selection of Fowler long before his excellent rookie campaign even started. You can look up my posts.

This is irrelevant. 11 teams also passed on Marc Staal. 59 teams passed on Brandon Dubinsky, including the New York Rangers FIVE TIMES...in the 2004 entry draft we picked Al Montoya, Lauri Korpikoski, Darin Oliver, Dane Byers and Bruce Graham ahead of Dubinsky. The draft is a very inexact science. Many of the best players were passed over multiple times.

Does this mean Fowler is going to be a great player? Of course not. But being passed over 11 times is better than most NHL players can say.Not comparing the two at all. Not me anyway. My point on draft day was that elite offensive defensemen are very diffucult to find, and if Fowler comes anywhere near elite (even halfway) that's pretty good...with or without Del Zotto
All I'm saying is that any feelings of remorse, finger pointing, or claims as to "I was right about Fowler!" are way, way premature. Fowler is a quality PMD, but he's got a LONG way to go to match the competence that even Del Zotto showed in his own end during his rookie year.

For every player that was passed over by multiple teams and became a successful NHLer, I can show you hundreds that never amounted to anything. There's a reason that top picks are so valuable, and there's a reason that NHL GM's don't start second guessing themselves after a player they didn't select makes it to the NHL before the guy that they took.

If Fowler turns into a regular NHLer while MDZ and McIlrath end up as AHL fodder, I'll probably tip my hat to all of the folks that shout "I told you so!" from the top of the Garden. But for now, I'm going to stick what I've seen first hand.

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02-07-2011, 02:13 PM
  #96
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The only way I trade MDZ is by calling St. Louis and seeing if Erik Johnson is available. Maybe there is a chink in the armor over there and they're really thinking of going with Alex Pietrangelo at their guy, then a left handed D for them could be MDZ.

I'd send them MDZ + Wolski for EJ and a #2.

Staal & EJ - IS a #1 line for the next decade.

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Matt gilroy+ 2nd round pick for kaberle.
Gilroy + Hagelin maybe but I wanna keep those picks.


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02-07-2011, 03:51 PM
  #97
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All I'm saying is that any feelings of remorse, finger pointing, or claims as to "I was right about Fowler!" are way, way premature. Fowler is a quality PMD, but he's got a LONG way to go to match the competence that even Del Zotto showed in his own end during his rookie year.
I'm not saying I was right about Fowler. I'm saying he's doing a good job at the point right now for Anaheim...which is very on topic in this thread. That doesn't mean Fowler is going into the Hall of Fame, but it doesn't mean he'll struggle in his sophomore year like Del Zotto is either. Time will tell.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree regarding Del Zotto's 'competence' in his own end last year.

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For every player that was passed over by multiple teams and became a successful NHLer, I can show you hundreds that never amounted to anything. There's a reason that top picks are so valuable, and there's a reason that NHL GM's don't start second guessing themselves after a player they didn't select makes it to the NHL before the guy that they took.
I was just addressing the fact that you mentioned that 11 teams passed on Fowler. That means nothing. As you said, some people who are passed on never make it to the NHL, and some become superstars. Once again, time will tell.

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If Fowler turns into a regular NHLer while MDZ and McIlrath end up as AHL fodder, I'll probably tip my hat to all of the folks that shout "I told you so!" from the top of the Garden. But for now, I'm going to stick what I've seen first hand.
Fowler just seemed to me like the better selection at the time, but I will be VERY happy to say I was wrong if McIlraith turns into a star.

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02-07-2011, 05:06 PM
  #98
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02-07-2011, 09:08 PM
  #99
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Mike Milbury just said: "...Your powerplay sucks basically."

He's right.

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02-07-2011, 10:12 PM
  #100
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What about giving Vtank a shot and sending MDZ down?

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