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The Rangers are watching Sheldon Souray

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Old
02-07-2011, 08:57 AM
  #151
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This seems like a Sandis Ozolinsh situation.... except the Rangers actually picked him up. Over the hill PP specialist that makes a lot of money -- historically its like Germany invading Russia after Napolean failed doing the same thing.... lets not make the same mistake twice.

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02-07-2011, 08:59 AM
  #152
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I’m neutral on Souray. It’s worth a shot if it works out. If it doesn’t I don’t think it’s going to affect pursing Richards or anyone else for that matter. I highly doubt that Richards will become available this season given Dallas’ is
Playing well. NYR management will not trade for a player they can pursue as a UFA. There are no guarantees we’ll get him in the offseason either. I don’t believe we should turn down any move In the present to help our team right now, because of uncertainty in the future.

You can mention that players are what they are right now, not what they used to be, yet sometimes it’s worth taking a Chance on a talented player that had a bad season or two. Players are human and just because they don’t have A career filled with year after year of continual success doesn’t mean they’re past it or washed up either.

Prior to his injury and falling out with Edmonton he was able to put up 53p in 09’ (23g/30a - 81gp) with and Edmonton team that was just as bad as they are now! He suffered injuries and had a fallout with management. Edmonton is one of the worst places for an NHL player to wind up for more ways than one. I don’t blame him for being unhappy there.

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02-07-2011, 09:06 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I'm sure he scored his 26 goals in 07-8 and 23 goals in 08-09 by accident too.
Edit::

Yeah and in 06-07 Drury had 69 points 37 goals!!!! and I dont think any one here believes that was anything but an accident and look where he is now. Your point is moot.

He is worse than Redden defensively and his offense is gone. Some players fall off earliers than others.

If we want a PP solution IMO Kaberle is the most realistic and favorable solution for the Rangers.


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02-07-2011, 09:09 AM
  #154
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Yeah and in 06-07 Drury had 83 points and I dont think any one here believes that was anything but an accident and look where he is now. Your point is moot.
Lol where'd you get those stats? Drury never even hit 70 points in his career, let alone 80.

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02-07-2011, 09:12 AM
  #155
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This whole look at Redden, look at Drury argument is pure BS! Totally different circumstances and everyone situationIs different. For that matter we should’ve passed on Wolski? He’s very talented but couldn’t stick with Colorado or Phoenix?Should’ve passed up on Fedetenko, he’s old right? Eminger’s was a joke until he played solid hockey for us!

There’s risk involved anytime you take on a player whether UFA or trade. There is no sure thing. You have a build a sucessful team through a variety of methods.

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02-07-2011, 09:13 AM
  #156
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Lol where'd you get those stats? Drury never even hit 70 points in his career, let alone 80.
I thought the year he was in Buffalo playing with Briere and that ridiculous Buffalo team when he scored the goal in the playoffs with 7.7 seconds left he had scored a ton that year.

I was wrong on the points but he scored 3y goals. Was that an accident? Its looking like it now. Souray, like Drury and Redden, can't really hack it in the NHL any more.


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02-07-2011, 09:17 AM
  #157
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This whole look at Redden, look at Drury argument is pure BS! Totally different circumstances and everyone situationIs different. For that matter we should’ve passed on Wolski? He’s very talented but couldn’t stick with Colorado or Phoenix?Should’ve passed up on Fedetenko, he’s old right? Eminger’s was a joke until he played solid hockey for us!

There’s risk involved anytime you take on a player whether UFA or trade. There is no sure thing. You have a build a sucessful team through a variety of methods.
If Souray's contract was up at the end of this year and acquiring him would not cause us to use the bonus cushion, I'd agree with you. But given his contract, it's too big of a risk for too small of a potential gain. Are we a Sheldon Souray away from winning the cup? Are we a Sheldon Souray away from anything? I don't think so.

Odds are much better that he will fail here than he will succeed. And the last thing this team needs is another unproductive player taking up cap space.

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02-07-2011, 09:19 AM
  #158
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This whole look at Redden, look at Drury argument is pure BS! Totally different circumstances and everyone situationIs different. For that matter we should’ve passed on Wolski? He’s very talented but couldn’t stick with Colorado or Phoenix?Should’ve passed up on Fedetenko, he’s old right? Eminger’s was a joke until he played solid hockey for us!

There’s risk involved anytime you take on a player whether UFA or trade. There is no sure thing. You have a build a sucessful team through a variety of methods.
Those circumstances are apples to oranges. Fedentenko is 30? and hasnt been demoted to the minors and is struggling there.

Souray is a 34 year old. Drury is 34. Redden is 32? 33?

Eminger is 27, Wolski is 24? and Feds is 30?

Not to mention compare the contracts. Wolski makes the most at around 3.8.

The younger guys have not had a fall off like the older ones. They may have had a DOWN year but the top three have significantly dropped off as players. Drury has 0 goals this year and is making 7 mil. How is that the same as signing Fedetenko to a cheap 1 mil contract and him scoring a few goals for us?

Not to mention if he really bombs and gets sent down, thats another either 2.7 or 5.4 mil towards our summer cap which we already have 6.5 towards from Redden which decreases our $$ power.

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02-07-2011, 09:19 AM
  #159
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You can mention that players are what they are right now, not what they used to be, yet sometimes it’s worth taking a Chance on a talented player that had a bad season or two. Players are human and just because they don’t have A career filled with year after year of continual success doesn’t mean they’re past it or washed up either.
We're also talking about a player with a history of injuries and where 5-10 goals is the norm. Remember, he put up those 20 goal seasons only twice in his career. If he was consistently putting up those numbers and ran into a couple of bad seasons (and was a shade younger), I'd agree. But the chances of the Rangers miraculously rejuvinating this guy seems, to me, a stretch of reason. He's not even scoring in the AHL, which, again to me, is another bad sign. Sure, we can dump him in the AHL with Redden, but we're still chewing $9 million of wasted cap space during the summer. Souray's not going to come in and change the team's fortunes. Why waste the cap space?

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02-07-2011, 09:25 AM
  #160
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If Souray's contract was up at the end of this year and acquiring him would not cause us to use the bonus cushion, I'd agree with you. But given his contract, it's too big of a risk for too small of a potential gain. Are we a Sheldon Souray away from winning the cup? Are we a Sheldon Souray away from anything? I don't think so.

Odds are much better that he will fail here than he will succeed. And the last thing this team needs is another unproductive player taking up cap space.

Your reservations are noted here but with some many variables I can’t see Souray’s contract prohibiting the NYR from Other pursuits. My guess is that management does not want to trade any assets For a temporary solution on the PP. We would agree to that. Any trade of assets should be for players that Will impact this club for years to come.

I see this as the NYR entertaining the idea of Souray as a low budget way to address the PP.Burke wants a kings ransom for Kaberle so that’s a pass. We’re worse off with Macabe. Again this is not about us
Winning the cup here! Lol! This is about getting a functioning PP so that we don’t lose the games we should be winning.

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02-07-2011, 09:32 AM
  #161
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Disagree all you want, it's still the truth. Look at the numbers. Or continue to ignore them and believe what you want.
No need to be ignorant. Everyone and anyone has the right to their opinion. When and if Souray makes it into the NHL we will see if he's as bad as you and others advertise him to be. Personally, I don't think he is. I've seen him play live in Hershey but that's besides the point. I think we have a solid hard working team in place and there is room for improvement. I think Souray is an improvement over Gilroy and Del Zotto(at the moment). The financial situation after picking up Souray is being blown way out of proportion. Here we have the need for a PP QB/shooter and we're going to let 2.7 million get in the way of that? In fact, I'd rather let Stepan and Anisimov develop down the middle instead of blowing loads on a Richards who's turning 31. The only question some have is how affective Souray can be. To me, the question is how healthy can he be rather than how affective.

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02-07-2011, 09:33 AM
  #162
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We're also talking about a player with a history of injuries and where 5-10 goals is the norm. Remember, he put up those 20 goal seasons only twice in his career. If he was consistently putting up those numbers and ran into a couple of bad seasons (and was a shade younger), I'd agree. But the chances of the Rangers miraculously rejuvinating this guy seems, to me, a stretch of reason. He's not even scoring in the AHL, which, again to me, is another bad sign. Sure, we can dump him in the AHL with Redden, but we're still chewing $9 million of wasted cap space during the summer. Souray's not going to come in and change the team's fortunes. Why waste the cap space?
It seems as Souray’s career progressed he became a high scoring PP specialist. I realize he wasn’t always that player. Every player is different. Again I’m not necessarily advocating getting Souray or miraculously regenerating him. I think some of the arguments against getting him such as: look at Redden, look at Drury how did that work out? Is total crap.

I believe the NYR are entertaining options without having to part with prospects or picks unnecessarily which we can all Agree on. Although I agree that the summer cap hit is the best argument against Souray, for all we know, Ranger management may already know that Redden will play elsewhere and be off the books. It’s hard to imagine they would Pursue this deal otherwise.

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02-07-2011, 09:35 AM
  #163
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No need to be ignorant. Everyone and anyone has the right to their opinion. When and if Souray makes it into the NHL we will see if he's as bad as you and others advertise him to be. Personally, I don't think he is. I've seen him play live in Hershey but that's besides the point. I think we have a solid hard working team in place and there is room for improvement. I think Souray is an improvement over Gilroy and Del Zotto(at the moment). The financial situation after picking up Souray is being blown way out of proportion. Here we have the need for a PP QB/shooter and we're going to let 2.7 million get in the way of that? In fact, I'd rather let Stepan and Anisimov develop down the middle instead of blowing loads on a Richards who's turning 31. The only question some have is how affective Souray can be. To me, the question is how healthy can he be rather than how affective.
i agree.

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02-07-2011, 09:44 AM
  #164
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It seems as Souray’s career progressed he became a high scoring PP specialist. I realize he wasn’t always that player.
Every player is different. Again I’m not necessarily advocating getting Souray or miraculously regenerating him. I think some of the arguments against getting him such as: look at Redden, look at Drury how did that work out? Is total crap.

I believe the NYR are entertaining options without having to part with prospects or picks unnecessarily which we can all
Agree on. Although I agree that the summer cap hit is the best argument against Souray, for all we know, Ranger management may already know that Redden will play elsewhere and be off the books. It’s hard to imagine they would
Pursue this deal otherwise.
I see it more as two really good PP seasons, rather than something he progressed towards, the way, say, Knuble became a potent scorer. In between those two really good seasons, were two really bad injury-plagued seasons. That, to me, seems the norm.

It's not a move that would send me into a rage. But I think it's a blind and out-of-ideas move. More checkers than chess (if that makes sense hehe).

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02-07-2011, 09:50 AM
  #165
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I see it more as two really good PP seasons, rather than something he progressed towards, the way, say, Knuble became a potent scorer. In between those two really good seasons, were two really bad seasons PP-wise.

It's not a move that would send me into a rage. But I think it's a blind and out-of-ideas move. More checkers than chess (if that makes sense hehe).
i get what you're saying and i agree. at best it's PP improvement on the cheap. Better than moving assets for Kaberle, who i wouldn't mind getting for the right deal if we could keep him around for a few years. i despise moving players for rentals that aren't part of the big picture.

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02-07-2011, 09:52 AM
  #166
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i get what you're saying and i agree. at best it's PP improvement on the cheap. Better than moving assets for Kaberle, who i wouldn't mind getting for the right deal if we could keep him around for a few years. i despise moving players for rentals that aren't part of the big picture.
While I agree with you about the Rentals part, Kaberle can play a much better DEFENSIVE game than Souray and will immensely help the PP. I would rather give up assets to get a quality player than give up nothing to get one whos skills have clearly diminished.

Now thats not to say Kaberle's skills can't do the same thing but as of right now he is still playing solid NHL level hockey. Something Souray can barely do at the AHL.

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02-07-2011, 09:57 AM
  #167
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While I agree with you about the Rentals part, Kaberle can play a much better DEFENSIVE game than Souray and will immensely help the PP. I would rather give up assets to get a quality player than give up nothing to get one whos skills have clearly diminished.

Now thats not to say Kaberle's skills can't do the same thing but as of right now he is still playing solid NHL level hockey. Something Souray can barely do at the AHL.
yes i would much rather have Kaberle. no contest. I just don't want to give up too much, and if we do, never for a rental. Burke would want a lot imo.

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02-07-2011, 09:58 AM
  #168
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While I agree with you about the Rentals part, Kaberle can play a much better DEFENSIVE game than Souray and will immensely help the PP. I would rather give up assets to get a quality player than give up nothing to get one whos skills have clearly diminished.

Now thats not to say Kaberle's skills can't do the same thing but as of right now he is still playing solid NHL level hockey. Something Souray can barely do at the AHL.
Why are we even comparing Kaberle and Souray? Kaberle IMO is a world class defensmen. It would be nice to have him, but at what cost?

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02-07-2011, 01:54 PM
  #169
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Rangers scouts get an eyeful of Souray, and don't like what they see "It was his job to lose."— source. Too slow for AHL, let alone NHL.

SportsnetSpec Mark Spector Sports
Yes, not what Oil/Tambellini wanted to hear. Souray struggled badly with pace of AHL game

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02-07-2011, 02:01 PM
  #170
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That settles that.

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02-07-2011, 02:11 PM
  #171
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Thank FSM. Souray is awful.

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02-07-2011, 02:13 PM
  #172
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SportsnetSpec Mark Spector Sports

Rangers scouts get an eyeful of Souray, and don't like what they see "It was his job to lose."— source. Too slow for AHL, let alone NHL.

SportsnetSpec Mark Spector Sports
Yes, not what Oil/Tambellini wanted to hear. Souray struggled badly with pace of AHL game
Good. I was very worried they were actually going to claim him.

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02-07-2011, 02:13 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Dredden View Post
SportsnetSpec Mark Spector Sports

Rangers scouts get an eyeful of Souray, and don't like what they see "It was his job to lose."— source. Too slow for AHL, let alone NHL.

SportsnetSpec Mark Spector Sports
Yes, not what Oil/Tambellini wanted to hear. Souray struggled badly with pace of AHL game
Exactly...it is what it is. We can look at past seasons and say maybe...or do the reasonable thing and see Souray for the player he is today: an aging defender whose skills are below AHL standards.

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02-07-2011, 02:16 PM
  #174
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This team needs to find some experience on the back end before it haunts us down the stretch here.

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02-07-2011, 02:17 PM
  #175
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Thankfully, levelheadedness rules the day. Souray is the Oilers version of Redden, he was going to be of no help to us.

I find it a bit concerning that the Rangers even considered him as an option and went as far as to scout him. But one must expect these things with Sather as GM.

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