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Old
02-07-2011, 02:10 PM
  #51
SteenMachine
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
If Ottawa could do this -- you bet your ### they would be all over it. They have just as much a desire for a quick turnaround as Toronto does. As the OP mentioned, Kessel is an extremely good fit for Spezza with the only caveat being leadership because neither of them have an ounce of it.

Toronto on the other hand doesn't do this. Their track record of developing forwards drafted in the first round is horrendous, and like Ottawa, they've got no interest in losing more games next year.
Really how many bottom dwellers does he have to end up on before it's safe to say Kessel doesn't make you a playoff threat?

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02-07-2011, 02:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
Really how many bottom dwellers does he have to end up on before it's safe to say Kessel doesn't make you a playoff threat?
He had no problem making the B's the league's best offensive team in his last year there.

Kessel hasn't made Toronto a playoff threat because Toronto hasn't had the players to get 40+ goals out of him. Ottawa does.

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Old
02-07-2011, 02:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
RNH wont be ready for you guys next year, Larsson wont be effect next year and i doubt you'd want him since you guys are loaded in the D. LAdeskog will be ready but wont be effective as asap for sure.
We don't care about effectiveness next year. It's not like the Sens will be contending for a cup.

So in that case, Ottawa says no.

And to the OP, as a member of the grammar police, I must inform you that "too" is the incorrect use of the word. Instead, it should be "to".

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Old
02-07-2011, 02:15 PM
  #54
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
He had no problem making the B's the league's best offensive team in his last year there. Kessel hasn't made Toronto a playoff threat because Toronto hasn't had the players to get 40+ goals out of him. Ottawa does.
This is a recurring fundamental problem with you. Kessel didn't MAKE the Bs the best offense, he had HELP. Krejci had a career year, and Savard had 83 points.

Yes he was a huge contributor, but to call him the sole cause is laughable.

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02-07-2011, 02:17 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
This is a recurring fundamental problem with you. Kessel didn't MAKE the Bs the best offense, he had HELP. Krejci had a career year, and Savard had 83 points.

Yes he was a huge contributor, but to call him the sole cause is laughable.
Thank you.

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02-07-2011, 02:22 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
This is a recurring fundamental problem with you. Kessel didn't MAKE the Bs the best offense, he had HELP. Krejci had a career year, and Savard had 83 points.

Yes he was a huge contributor, but to call him the sole cause is laughable.
Of course he had help -- no one player is going to make a team have the league's best offence on his own. What we do know -- is that he was a major catalyst. Without him (while he was the only significant change), Boston went from the league's 2nd best to the league's worst. Defensively they went from the league's best defensive team to 2nd best defensive team (so no significant change).

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Old
02-07-2011, 02:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Of course he had help -- no one player is going to make a team have the league's best offence on his own. What we do know -- is that he was a major catalyst. Without him (while he was the only significant change), Boston went from the league's 2nd best to the league's worst.
Yes everyone on the team completely underperforming was directly the result of losing Kessel. Makes a lot of sense.

Ridiculous logic.

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Old
02-07-2011, 02:27 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Of course he had help -- no one player is going to make a team have the league's best offence on his own. What we do know -- is that he was a major catalyst. Without him (while he was the only significant change), Boston went from the league's 2nd best to the league's worst. Defensively they went from the league's best defensive team to 2nd best defensive team (so no significant change).
And Ottawa is at least 3 years away from having a shot at being the best or even a top 3 defensive team. Oh and they don't have Thomas and Rask... I mean seriously they're not out of the playoffs by 25 goals, they're out of the playoff because they have a lot of holes to fill.

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Old
02-07-2011, 02:38 PM
  #59
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Yeah, I like the symmetry of the Landeskog pick though. From a business standpoint, the marketers would love it. Alfie mentors younger version of himself etc. You can't really miss with either pick though. And I guess having a young Canadian kid wouldn't be a tough sell either in the nations capital. I just think Melnyk could cash in on Alfie's popularity.
For sure the symmetry of it is almost storybook - especially with the way Landeskog plays the game, but when it all comes down to it, the Sens need an infusion of skill up front. Can Landeskog present that? Definitely. Can RNH? In a big way. As you say, hard to go wrong (hopefully!).

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Old
02-07-2011, 02:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Yes everyone on the team completely underperforming was directly the result of losing Kessel. Makes a lot of sense.

Ridiculous logic.
That's what happens when you take away the effectiveness of a top line. Everyone else has to pick up slack they aren't capable of doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
And Ottawa is at least 3 years away from having a shot at being the best or even a top 3 defensive team. Oh and they don't have Thomas and Rask... I mean seriously they're not out of the playoffs by 25 goals, they're out of the playoff because they have a lot of holes to fill.
You're nuts if you think that Eugene Melnyk is prepared to watch his team be a loser for the next 3 years.

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Old
02-07-2011, 03:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
That's what happens when you take away the effectiveness of a top line. Everyone else has to pick up slack they aren't capable of doing.
Yes, so losing Phil Kessel is why we went from 2nd to 30th in the league in scoring.

Sounds about right.

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Old
02-07-2011, 03:07 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
Too Ott: Kessel
Too Tor: 1st round pick

I know my fellow Sens fan will curse me out....But Kessel is the ideal Winger for Spezza...Kessel would be a 40+ scorer with Spezz....
You could make a case for the value there. It'd be a good return for Toronto too, though of course it would throw a rather harsh light on the original trade.

It is a point in Kessel's favor that he transcends the "win now"/"build for the future" choice - he fits into both.

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Old
02-07-2011, 03:21 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
That's what happens when you take away the effectiveness of a top line. Everyone else has to pick up slack they aren't capable of doing.



You're nuts if you think that Eugene Melnyk is prepared to watch his team be a loser for the next 3 years.
So Melnyk wouldnt be willing to lose for a couple of years to get back a perennial Cup contender, yet MLSE is perfectly willing to lose for a few DECADES, and still not have even a playoff contender, let alone a Cup contender. Gee, I wonder why that is? Oh yeah, because Leaf fan zombies keep shelling out obscene amounts of cash to watch a bottom feeder with no hope in sight? That's a pretty sad commentary on the Leaf organization, and especially their fan base.

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Old
02-07-2011, 09:13 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
RNH wont be ready for you guys next year, Larsson wont be effect next year and i doubt you'd want him since you guys are loaded in the D. LAdeskog will be ready but wont be effective as asap for sure.
Landeskog will most definitely be effective along side Spezza. Early ROY pick for next year if Ottawa drafts him IMO. 30/30 from this guy in the NHL makes him better than Couturier/Nugen-Hopkin scoring 90 pts.

In fact, you look at Spezza's talent and game and then you look at Landeskog's finishing and space creating battles and puck work and grit........he fits with Spezza better than even the goal scoring Heatley did. Not in terms of points but effectiveness.

Nugen-Hopkins probably doesn't make the team full-time. 9 games max unless he gets on roids. Couturier's game will I think take little longer to translate from the Q to the NHL similar to Lecavalier, plus Fisher would be blocking him for at least next year unless he is moved.

Landeskog through will be money in Ottawa and could be playing 19+ mins a night as Ottawa's #1 LW even as an 18 year old rookie because of his power style 2 way game combined with his 6-2 210 frame and offensive talent. A fan fav also.

Of all the players available this june, Landeskog is by far most ready to make an impact in the NHL. I don't even see Larsson making a huge impact in say Edmonton as learning how to play D effectively takes longer even if you are a phenom.


Last edited by 4thliner*: 02-07-2011 at 09:33 PM.
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Old
02-07-2011, 09:27 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
So Melnyk wouldnt be willing to lose for a couple of years to get back a perennial Cup contender, yet MLSE is perfectly willing to lose for a few DECADES, and still not have even a playoff contender, let alone a Cup contender. Gee, I wonder why that is? Oh yeah, because Leaf fan zombies keep shelling out obscene amounts of cash to watch a bottom feeder with no hope in sight? That's a pretty sad commentary on the Leaf organization, and especially their fan base.
No he wouldn't -- if he had an opportunty to rapidly accelerate a rebuild like this, he'd be all over it. There's also no guarantee that losing will automatically make you a cup contender.

I'm not sure what gives you the idea that MLSE was/is willing to lose for a few decades. They were perennial playoff contenders pre-lockout, and have done everything they can to get back into the playoffs post-lockout.

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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Yes, so losing Phil Kessel is why we went from 2nd to 30th in the league in scoring.

Sounds about right.
He was the major reason.

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Old
02-07-2011, 09:31 PM
  #66
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Kessel is going nowhere. Just add him to the long list of bad trades made in Toronto

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:18 AM
  #67
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Toronto does not want to trade Kessel.

Im getting a good laugh from reading the comments of Sens fans in this thread saying no to the proposal in the OP.

Kessel is playing with and AHL winger amd a 3rd line centre (on a decent team). His results arent there but its not entirely his fault. His attitude sucks but he is still worth more than Ottawa's 1st in 2011.

Burke would accept no less than Cowen and that 1st.
We all know Ottawa wouldnt do that so lets all just move on to better topics.

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:23 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
He had no problem making the B's the league's best offensive team in his last year there.

Kessel hasn't made Toronto a playoff threat because Toronto hasn't had the players to get 40+ goals out of him. Ottawa does.
nope, spezza sucks, remember? Also alfie and kovy are old, and fisher is a 3rd line center at best.

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:25 AM
  #69
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Yeah kessel wont be moved he is a top line player that they paid, an unfortunate heavy price to get .They will look to add pieces around him through trade or fa

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:53 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by CarknerCountry View Post
Too Ott: Kessel
Too Tor: 1st round pick

I know my fellow Sens fan will curse me out....But Kessel is the ideal Winger for Spezza...Kessel would be a 40+ scorer with Spezz....
seeing Spezza and Kessel together in ottawa would make me sick I understand we get a 1st but I DON'T want to see one of our top rivals get better

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:13 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
nope, spezza sucks, remember? Also alfie and kovy are old, and fisher is a 3rd line center at best.
Actually, Spezza is a premier playmaker (much like Kessel is a premier goalscorer) who needs to be playing with a great goalscorer in order to maximize his effectivness (again, much like Kessel needs to be playing with a premier playmaker to maximize his effectiveness).

Alfie & Kovy are old, and Fisher is problably a really good 3rd line centre at this point in his career, but that really doesn't matter. All those 2 would need is a hardworking guy to go into the corners to be one of the most successful lines in the league.

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:42 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Yes, so losing Phil Kessel is why we went from 2nd to 30th in the league in scoring.

Sounds about right.
well, losing 36 goals without bringing in anyone to pick up the slack can alone cause a pretty big drop... but yea, I'm gonna guess it had something to do with some guys getting injured.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:19 AM
  #73
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Ya not going to happen

Kessel for someone in 3 or 4 years might be as good as Kessel, nah a big no from Toronto's side

How about Spezza for 2012 first rounder? Same proposal just from the other side

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:05 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
RNH wont be ready for you guys next year, Larsson wont be effect next year and i doubt you'd want him since you guys are loaded in the D. LAdeskog will be ready but wont be effective as asap for sure.
Put it this way. If we pick up Larsson, we can trade one of Rundblad or Karlsson. If it's the latter, he'd have more trade value than Kessel, so there'd be no point in trading that pick.

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Old
02-08-2011, 12:13 PM
  #75
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Jfried
I would not say they would model there team after toronto sure the leafs are winnign a bit buts till not great.Ottawa will or atleast should set them selfs up for the future get a top 5 pick and build from there.

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