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Old
02-08-2011, 04:11 PM
  #76
pld459666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Booth is better than Wolski and arguably Dubinsky.

But the point is, Stepan doesn't play with those players primarily. And he's 20. Considering he's only scoring 5 points less while being 7 years younger doesn't scream "MAJOR UPGRADE!" to me.
Never insinuated that he's a "MAJOR UPGRADE"

However, even with the down season that Gaborik is having he's still producing 4 points for every 5 games. Guess who'e benefitting from that?

Stepan is a nice player, and regardless of the number you continue to point to, (5 points less while playing on a much more talented team) he's still not nearly on the same level as Weiss.

He will get there, but he's not there now.

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Old
02-08-2011, 04:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
At this point, sure, but Booth has recovered from the concussion admirably. He's on pace for 23 goals on a terrible team. He scored 31 in 72 games just 2 years ago. You can't discredit this guy's ability.

He's definitely better than Wolski. He many not have the talent, but he has the desire/heart that makes him more valuable to any team than an unmotivated Wolski. He's also a better goal scorer.
producing points on a bad team doesn't necessairly mean that you are a good player. It could mean that you are the guy that is being played the most at PK, PP and ES.

Not trying to discredit Booth at all, and prior to the concussion (they never fully recover) I wouldn't have minded him, but as it is, he's no better than Wolski and not as good as Dubi and since we cannot discount the effects that head injuries have on players and the styles they play post concussion I would not expect Booth to get back to the 60 point days any time soon

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Old
02-08-2011, 05:15 PM
  #78
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Really not a fan of Spezza myself. Lots of good reasons for and agains tin this thread but I don't think he';s going to be the type of player we need he's just not playing at that high a level. I feel there are big risks with BR too but at least he has been playing at that level and I think he will another 2-3 years. With this team and a 90 pt B.R. we're cup contenders or winners. Plus by the time he starts to decline Drury and redden are off the books so it doesn't cripple us to have his 7 mil cap hit either. SO we'll natrually have Prust and Boyle underperforming at 4 mil per or something ridiculous haha

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02-08-2011, 05:18 PM
  #79
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What if Richards and Gaborik aren't the match made in heaven we all want them to be, assuming we even do manage to get Richards. Then what? That's an awful lot of cap space (approx $14m) invested on two guys.

Approx $3m for a 60p player (Weiss) is good bang for your buck. And allows you to upgrade other areas of the roster.

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02-08-2011, 05:21 PM
  #80
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For the record, I'd prefer Richards because he's clearly the better player.

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02-08-2011, 05:24 PM
  #81
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Spezza - Grachev, Zuccarello, Gilroy, 1st

Richards - Kreider, Thomas, MDZ, 1st

Kaberle - Werek, Vtank, 1st

Then we can be in last place for the next 10 years.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:00 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Spezza - Grachev, Zuccarello, Gilroy, 1st

Richards - Kreider, Thomas, MDZ, 1st

Kaberle - Werek, Vtank, 1st

Then we can be in last place for the next 10 years.
You forgot Dubi, Callahan, 1st for Kessel

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:02 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
What if Richards and Gaborik aren't the match made in heaven we all want them to be, assuming we even do manage to get Richards. Then what? That's an awful lot of cap space (approx $14m) invested on two guys.

Approx $3m for a 60p player (Weiss) is good bang for your buck. And allows you to upgrade other areas of the roster.
That's not reason enough to not go after a player though. If the Pens offered us Crosby would you not do it because he and Gaborik might not be a match made in heaven or because Crosby recently suffered a concussion? What about Ovechkin because he's having a down year by his standards? What if he came here and then decided he wanted to pursue a tennis career? What if the sky falls tomorrow?

"What if's" exist in every situation. You don't discount every situation, especially a great opportunity like this because of that. It's not like we're trying to sign Marc Savard or Sheldon Souray for big money and multiple years. It's Brad Richards. More than PPG player over the past 3-4 years and no signs of declining. He's the game-changer we need. He immediately changes the entire dynamic of the team the second he gets here. And if Gaborik can't get going playing with him, then that's Gaborik's fault, not Richards. We've tried enough centers with Gaborik and he's not doing enough on his own. It's that simple.

Richards is the TYPE of player we need, and he just so happens to be available for zero assets this offseason. Nothing but cap-space. He's in his prime and his game isn't based on dynamic speed or strength. His game is about his vision. He will be a very productive player for another 5 years at least, as long as he stays healthy (a risk with EVERY player).

Weiss is not what we need. He's redundant on this team. We have players like him and he's getting tons of ice time in Florida. I don't want Stephen friggin Weiss being our ice-time leader just so he can hope to crack 60 points for us. That's not what winning is. Richards is an elite playmaker, and he helps us WIN. He does more than put up points. I don't think I need to get into the "trickle-down effect" that Richards would have on Stepan, Anisimov, and Boyle's matchups and confidence, allowing them to slot into much more suited roles.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:13 PM
  #84
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Honestly, I'd like Richards if they can get him for nothing but cash. Aside from that I don't think this team needs another player right now. They've got some good guys, they just need Gabby to break out and/or the PP to start working and then they'll really make some noise.

Connolly is worse than Gaborik in terms of injury and Spezza is too old to justify giving up young assets for.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:56 PM
  #85
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Should the Rangers target Bogosian?

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353002

According to McKenzie, he is at least somewhat available. Maybe we could swap Del Zotto ++ for him(2 players who could probably use a change of scenery)? Maybe he could be the answer to our problems on the PP? I personally would not mind including picks and prospects in a trade for this kid because he could be a huge part of our blueline for years to come.


Last edited by h0ckeyman: 02-08-2011 at 07:05 PM.
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Old
02-08-2011, 06:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Thinking about this and I'm not sure that there's anyone out there that we can get that can provide the needed assistance that this team needs.

In the Western Conference, 9 points seperate Nashville (4th in the West) from St. Louis (14th in the west)

That means that the West is pretty wide open to no less than 11 teams.

I highly doubt that the teams below the mendoza line are going to look to make any moves that weaken their current position.

That leaves Edmonton as the only Western team that may be willing to trade. However, I do not want Horcoff and they are not trading Sam Gagner. Hemsky has been in the IR twice this season already and we already have a groin issue to worry about in Gaborik. Penner doesn't provide the type of assistance that this team needs.

As such I do not think that a deal with Edmonton makes much (if any) sense.

In the Eastern Conference, there seems to be a more clear cut grouping of teams that have a legit shot at the PO's.

4 points seperate the Rangers (7th) and Atlanta (9th) further to that 9 points seperate Rangers (7th) from Buffalo (10th)

Of the teams that are on the outside looking in, you can eliminate 2 teams immediately (Devils and Islanders) as they are not going to trade with the Rangers.

We have a small grouping of teams from which to trade with as of today (as the deadline gets closer things may change, but 52+ games in for the league I get the feeling that what we see here today is not going to be drastically different in less than 3 weeks.

The teams that we can work with are Ottawa, Toronto, and to a lesser extent Florida and Buffalo (6 and 5 points out of a PO spot respectively)

So I put it to you, who do you target?

For me I think I may take a flier on Tim Connolly. He's a UFA after this season and is a solid playmaking center when healthy. He shouldn't cost much in terms of assets heading the other way and if he doesn't pan out, no harm no foul.

I would pass on Fisher as he has anothe ryear after this one at a 4 millino cap hit. He signed a 5 year deal in September 2007, that contract runs out at the end of the 2012 season. The style he's employed may have taken it's toll on him physically. Additionally, he's not the playmaking center thsi team needs/requires

Weiss from Florida is an interesting target, a solid playmaking center with good goal scoring ability, cap hit is manageable beyond this year and he's still pretty young. I just do not see Florida trading their #1 center for anything less than package that would be to much for us to do.

The wildcard I believe is Jason Spezza.

If the Rangers feel that their chances are slim at signing Richards come July (cause Dallas is not trading him thsi year) then targeting Spezza may not be a bad idea if it means that we can shed Drury's contract in the process. However, it may not make sense for the Rangers to go after Spezza if the asking price includes names like Kreider, Stepan, Anisimov.

If Ottawa is truly in the rebuilding stages, then an offer of Grachev, Zuccs, Gilroy and out 1st should be enough to get a deal done.

Part of that would be the insistance that they also take Chris Drury so that we can fit the salary.

My preference is Richards, but Spezza is as good a playmaking center, he's a notch better goal scorer and he's 3 years younger. Brad Richards will be 31 in May, Spezza will be 28 in June.

Thoughts?
limiting this posting only to those you specified, yes on Connolly if he's cheap enough, possibly even Spezza as a short term jump on offense. However, don't see Sens letting him go cheap.

I also pass on Fisher, and Weiss is a productive player, but doesn't excite me with lots of potential. Again, don't see panthers parting with him when a Red Wings, for example, might pay more.

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Old
02-08-2011, 06:59 PM
  #87
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Also like Richards more than Spezza, but i get your point. Some have complained Spezza turned into a give-away machine early in the season...
It's closer than you think.
Big thing is no crazy contracts 5, 6, 7 years...

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:06 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He's better than Stepan and Anisimov

Stepan may someday be as good as Weiss is today. Anisimov? Doesn't have the same offence and Weiss is as good as Arty is defensively.
Way overrated, IMO!
stats are close, that I give you ---

but wouldn't part with either Stepan or AA for Weiss

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02-08-2011, 07:15 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
Trade at the draft for his rights? I'd be willing to send Wolski their way, if they want him. Clears more cap room, and opens up the left side for one of Grachev or Kreider. Thoughts?
I follow you; how about the flip side?
has there been any discussion, assuming this can be enforced, that

Stars not sure they 100% can have $$ to sign Richards, even though possibility of playoff $$ makes sense for them to do so;

so

rather than he walks for nothing,
Trade to NYR for
___________________ fill in the blank, assets / price we can both live with;

now here's the kicker!
The deal is predicated on NYR not agreeing to sign him til say, 30 days after Richards free agency begins.

That gives Stars til then to come up with scratch...
Gives Richards short term view of free agency market now...
Gives NYR Richards for balance of this season --- no guarantee thereafter
so he comes to us 'comparatively' cut rate, helps us with our playoff push..

thoughts...

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Old
02-08-2011, 07:16 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Spezza - Grachev, Zuccarello, Gilroy, 1st

Richards - Kreider, Thomas, MDZ, 1st

Kaberle - Werek, Vtank, 1st

Then we can be in last place for the next 10 years.

Let's say we got Richards for prospects. Then what? How far would this team go? Instead of losing in the first round, we'd lose in the second. Big freakin' difference.

It's not worth it. I want to have the maximum cap flexibility in the summer of 2013 when we have a better idea as to where our youth is.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:04 PM
  #91
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What about Huselius? Even though he's signed thru next season.

Good wild card name

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:14 PM
  #92
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What about Huselius? Even though he's signed thru next season.

Good wild card name
He has almost $5 million left on that contract. Pass.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Let's say we got Richards for prospects. Then what? How far would this team go? Instead of losing in the first round, we'd lose in the second. Big freakin' difference.

It's not worth it. I want to have the maximum cap flexibility in the summer of 2013 when we have a better idea as to where our youth is.
Connolly for McIlrath and a 2nd.

Saku Koivu for Kundatrek and Bourque.

Lets trade them all away

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02-08-2011, 09:30 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Connolly for McIlrath and a 2nd.

Saku Koivu for Kundatrek and Bourque.

Lets trade them all away
Why the **** would you do that? You're ****ing insane

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:37 PM
  #95
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Why the **** would you do that? You're ****ing insane
He's being sarcastic

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02-08-2011, 09:38 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
Why the **** would you do that? You're ****ing insane
I think he's being sarcastic. At least I hope so. But even with the sarcasm/kidding around, the first post of proposals was sorta humorous, the second one was just unnecessary.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:40 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=353002

According to McKenzie, he is at least somewhat available. Maybe we could swap Del Zotto ++ for him(2 players who could probably use a change of scenery)? Maybe he could be the answer to our problems on the PP? I personally would not mind including picks and prospects in a trade for this kid because he could be a huge part of our blueline for years to come.
Bogosian would be a great target, but "wowing" Atlanta with an offer kind of scares me.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:43 PM
  #98
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Bogosian would be a great target, but "wowing" Atlanta with an offer kind of scares me.
Too bad Waddell isn't the GM anymore, Slats could make it something like Redden for Bogosian, ala Zhitnik for Coburne.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:48 PM
  #99
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Let's target nobody. We're not ready this year anyway.

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Old
02-08-2011, 09:52 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Let's target nobody. We're not ready this year anyway.
I know I'm in the minority but I still think this team can make noise in the playoffs. They have not played awful during this slump. They've been in every game. The glaring difference as I continue to mention is their PP. Had they possessed a better PP they might have won all of the games during this slump. Not scoring last night with a 5-on-3, and the penguins game comes to mind with the 5 minute major assessed to J.Staal. Those are two games they would have won imo.

They are going to come out of this slump. They will win friday against atlanta and get back on track.

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