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Old
02-09-2011, 01:15 AM
  #76
JeffMangum
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I wouldn't offer a 7th rounder for Kaberle. He won't make a dramatic difference with this team. He won't be re-signed.

I feel like this about most rentals though.
Don't be ludicrous.

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02-09-2011, 01:17 AM
  #77
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Ranger's don't have the prospects(or one's their willing to give up) to get kaberle, so if he was to go to the NYR it would have be their 1st and no prospect coming back. Good thing there's a lot of buyers this year(mostly in the west) so the bidding is going to end with a 1st at least. Too bad he's not moving until he's 37 though.

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02-09-2011, 01:28 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by kesselsnapSHOT View Post
Ranger's don't have the prospects(or one's their willing to give up) to get kaberle, so if he was to go to the NYR it would have be their 1st and no prospect coming back. Good thing there's a lot of buyers this year(mostly in the west) so the bidding is going to end with a 1st at least. Too bad he's not moving until he's 37 though.
Quoting this for when you are horribly wrong.

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Old
02-09-2011, 01:38 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Quoting this for when you are horribly wrong.
Ok... But seriously what is wrong with moving your 1st for him? it's like kaberle's value has gone lower because of dreger. when just this morning a late-ish 1st for kaberle is great value for both teams and no one argues about the price being too high.

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02-09-2011, 02:15 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesselsnapSHOT View Post
Ok... But seriously what is wrong with moving your 1st for him? it's like kaberle's value has gone lower because of dreger. when just this morning a late-ish 1st for kaberle is great value for both teams and no one argues about the price being too high.
Why is this a seemingly common idea here? Why is a 2nd + mid prospect that much different than "just" a mid-to-late first? In reality, it's about equivalent in both the real world and whatever screwed-up logic is being employed to think otherwise here...

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02-09-2011, 08:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
The fact of the matter is the other teams do control how much you'll get in return. If you want something in return, for a rental, it's not going to be something significant.

The people who are not high on grachev are the same people not high on MDZ right now. He is only 20 playing in the AHL and finally starting to produce. Why would the Rangers give him up for a rental.

To NYR: Kaberle

To TOR: 2nd Round pick
Conditional 5th (Becomes a 4th if we make it past the 1st round, Becomes a 3rd if we make it to the ECF)
LOL You gave up that for Antropov! If you think Kaberle and Antropov were of equal value, you're a complete moron.

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02-09-2011, 08:23 AM
  #82
Megan Fox
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Brian Campbell returned a 1st and Bernier.
Joe Corvo returned a 2nd and a prospect.
Tomas Kaberle, a clearly superior player to both, will return LESS?

The idiocy in this thread astounds me. It's obvious some Rangers fans are the ones that want the moon but don't want/have the aassets they're willing to give up.

Leafs can't afford to part with Kaberle unless it improves the team. He has a NTC and probably wont wave anyways.

A healthy dose of reality from your friendly neighborhood Megan Fox.

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02-09-2011, 08:25 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
Brian Campbell returned a 1st and Bernier.
Joe Corvo returned a 2nd and a prospect.
Tomas Kaberle, a clearly superior player to both, will return LESS?

The idiocy in this thread astounds me. It's obvious some Rangers fans are the ones that want the moon but don't want/have the aassets they're willing to give up.

Leafs can't afford to part with Kaberle unless it improves the team. He has a NTC and probably wont wave anyways.

A healthy dose of reality from your friendly neighborhood Megan Fox.
Ever heard of leverage? Yeah. TOR has none.

I'd rather see him stay in TOR and then walk July 1st just for spite.

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02-09-2011, 08:26 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
Honestly, I'd rather let him walk than let other teams dictate the value of a player they don't have the rights to.
That's EXACTLY what I was talking about in my earlier posts, but yeah, I'll be..uh..what was it? "thinking before I click?"

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02-09-2011, 08:30 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesselsnapSHOT View Post
Ok... But seriously what is wrong with moving your 1st for him? it's like kaberle's value has gone lower because of dreger. when just this morning a late-ish 1st for kaberle is great value for both teams and no one argues about the price being too high.
It's not because of Dreger, it's because of a flooded market.

Other GMs are saying "well, if Burkie wants the moon for Kaberle, let's go see what Calgary wants for Babchuk, or Carolina for Corvo, or maybe we can get by with just a triggerman like Foster."

Combined with contract value being at its lowest and no team with long-term interest in trading (MTL/BOS/PHI/NYR are the supposedly interested parties) and Kaberle's real market value is lower than it has ever been.

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Old
02-09-2011, 08:30 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
Ever heard of leverage? Yeah. TOR has none.

I'd rather see him stay in TOR and then walk July 1st just for spite.
No leverage ? Tomas Kaberle plays for the Leafs and we don't have to trade him. Your team is the one that wants him so don't complain when your crappy offers are rejected.
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
That's EXACTLY what I was talking about in my earlier posts, but yeah, I'll be..uh..what was it? "thinking before I click?"
Aww good for you!

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Old
02-09-2011, 08:35 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
LOL You gave up that for Antropov! If you think Kaberle and Antropov were of equal value, you're a complete moron.


Player value is not dictated strictly by player skill.

If Ovechkin, Stamkos, Crosby and Malkin all suddenly became UFA and only 3 teams were interested in signing them, the competition is not between the teams, but between the players - 4 guys competing for 3 spots. Someone's going to have to do something to make themselves more available or more accessible or risk being left in the dust - and if Crosby wants $12m but Stamkos is willing to come play for 9, Stamkos is the one that gets the spot - and Crosby can sit on his ass on the sofa until his demands become more reasonable.

That's Burke's situation - he may be holding the best player, but if there aren't enough interested teams, his decision becomes "something or nothing". That can change given who gets dealt where and for how much, but as of right now, Kaberle's value is at it's nadir.

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02-09-2011, 08:37 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
No leverage ? Tomas Kaberle plays for the Leafs and we don't have to trade him. Your team is the one that wants him so don't complain when your crappy offers are rejected.


Aww good for you!
Answer me this.

Would you rather have a mid-round pick for Kaberle, or nothing at all? Given the ****storm the Leafs have dragged this guy through with the incessant trade rumors, do you truly believe he'll actually want to re-sign?

Furthermore, if he does wish to re-sign, why not deal him and re-sign him on 7/1?

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02-09-2011, 08:54 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
Answer me this.

Would you rather have a mid-round pick for Kaberle, or nothing at all? Given the ****storm the Leafs have dragged this guy through with the incessant trade rumors, do you truly believe he'll actually want to re-sign?

Furthermore, if he does wish to re-sign, why not deal him and re-sign him on 7/1?
Nothing at all.

If Kaberle is harbouring any resentment at all, it should not be at Brian Burke or the Leafs organization. We've been nothing but courteous with Kaberle the past two years - constantly reinforcing the notion that Kaberle has a NTC and Brian Burke wont ask him to waive. It's the media that creates these issues, and if Kaberle wants nothing to do with the Toronto media then we wont hold it against him.

The perception that Kaberle will walk as a UFA is likely just a fable - Kaberle has consistently maintained that he wants to stay. Lots of people compare this situation to the Sundin fiasco, but the fact is Kaberle has not been treated as poorly as Sundin

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02-09-2011, 09:04 AM
  #90
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I like Kaberle and i don't hate the idea of him as a rental. But not at the expense of Werek. Give that kid time and he will make an impact in NY. 2nd rounder, all day long. Maybe Bourque or Vtank. But don't trade Werek for him.

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02-09-2011, 09:07 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
Nothing at all.

If Kaberle is harbouring any resentment at all, it should not be at Brian Burke or the Leafs organization. We've been nothing but courteous with Kaberle the past two years - constantly reinforcing the notion that Kaberle has a NTC and Brian Burke wont ask him to waive. It's the media that creates these issues, and if Kaberle wants nothing to do with the Toronto media then we wont hold it against him.

The perception that Kaberle will walk as a UFA is likely just a fable - Kaberle has consistently maintained that he wants to stay. Lots of people compare this situation to the Sundin fiasco, but the fact is Kaberle has not been treated as poorly as Sundin
Fair enough - I can respect that angle. I do think you'd be very much in the minority of most Leafs fans though.

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02-09-2011, 09:40 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by BPD View Post
Fair enough - I can respect that angle. I do think you'd be very much in the minority of most Leafs fans though.



Not at all. It's very unlikely that Kaberle will traded; not sure why everyone is wasting their time on something that will most likely not happen.

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Old
02-09-2011, 09:44 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
Value's about right, but I think I'd pass. Leafs don't really need another two-way center. We need to start picking up some skilled winger prospects.

Would the Rangers have any interest at all in Kreider for Kaberle+? Toronto could also eat some salary if it's required.
Nope but you guys underestimate Werek. I think his ceiling is a 2nd line center 50-55 point player.

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02-09-2011, 09:45 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
Brian Campbell returned a 1st and Bernier.
Joe Corvo returned a 2nd and a prospect.
Tomas Kaberle, a clearly superior player to both, will return LESS?

The idiocy in this thread astounds me. It's obvious some Rangers fans are the ones that want the moon but don't want/have the aassets they're willing to give up.

Leafs can't afford to part with Kaberle unless it improves the team. He has a NTC and probably wont wave anyways.

A healthy dose of reality from your friendly neighborhood Megan Fox.
Dreger even said his value is a 2nd round pick and a prospect and Im sorry hes more reliable and credible than you.

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Old
02-09-2011, 09:46 AM
  #95
Megan Fox
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Dreger even said his value is a 2nd round pick and a prospect and Im sorry hes more reliable and credible than you.
Sheep.

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Old
02-09-2011, 09:47 AM
  #96
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If it came down to it I am sure Sather would give up a 2nd and Valentenko even though I am looking forward to him crushing teams players in the near future.

In the end as a Ranger fan I don't want to see prospecs go. I would give up a 2nd only because they have two in the Sanguinetty to Carolina deal and the later pick was Fasth who looks like a steal. I would likely to Sangs for Fasth straight up so moving the 2nd for a PP QB like a Kaberle is fine

On the other hand I see why Leaf fans want more but I just don't think Burke has any leverage.

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Old
02-09-2011, 10:13 AM
  #97
Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
Sheep.
At first, most leaf fans thought he would be worth a first and a TOP prospect.

The rest of HF continued to say it was too much.

Then they wanted just a 1st and a prospect

Still, the rest said it was too much.

Dreger says 2nd and a prospect at best. Thats where around the majority of us have been saying his value is. Not that the majority here is always right (Keith V Ballard debate) but every but most fans happened to be dead on.


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Old
02-09-2011, 10:17 AM
  #98
Megan Fox
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At first, most leaf fans thought he would be worth a first and a TOP prospect.

The rest of HF continued to say it was too much.

Then they wanted just a 1st and a prospect

Still, the rest said it was too much.

Dreger says 2nd and a prospect at best. Thats where around the majority of us have been saying his value is. Not that the majority here is always right (Keith V Ballard debate) but every but most leaf fans happened to be dead on.
The majority of you have one chromosome too many.

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Old
02-09-2011, 10:19 AM
  #99
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The majority of you have one chromosome too many.
Because Im right? And you are obviously gender confused with a name like megan fox but its okay you'll figure it out one day.

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Old
02-09-2011, 10:21 AM
  #100
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Just ignore that fool. He's doing his little clueless act on purpose to get a rise out of people.

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