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02-09-2011, 12:47 PM
  #101
IdealisticSniper
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So Dreger says Snow is trying to trade for a goalie since they are down to their 5th string guy right now.

Wonder if we can get a late pick for Smith from him now.

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02-09-2011, 01:02 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
I dont want Montador near this team. You guys think Kubina or Ohlund are slow....ha.
C'mon, now. Speed is nice but it isn't the end-all, be-all characteristic of skating. Montador is strong on his skates and is pretty solid, from what I've seen, positionally. His game isn't flashy but, in short, he has repeatedly demonstrated he can be effective in the minutes he logs. If Buffalo stumbles over the next few weeks and drops out of the playoff picture, he'll be a low-cost rental in terms of assets required to obtain him and payroll impact. And he's off the books come July 1.

Also, it's not like Seabrook is known for his wheels. It's the other elements of his game that make him so desirable, am I right?

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02-09-2011, 01:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
So Dreger says Snow is trying to trade for a goalie since they are down to their 5th string guy right now.

Wonder if we can get a late pick for Smith from him now.
Would be nice. I would like to see Janus get some time in Norfolk as well.

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02-09-2011, 01:35 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
C'mon, now. Speed is nice but it isn't the end-all, be-all characteristic of skating. Montador is strong on his skates and is pretty solid, from what I've seen, positionally. His game isn't flashy but, in short, he has repeatedly demonstrated he can be effective in the minutes he logs. If Buffalo stumbles over the next few weeks and drops out of the playoff picture, he'll be a low-cost rental in terms of assets required to obtain him and payroll impact. And he's off the books come July 1.

Also, it's not like Seabrook is known for his wheels. It's the other elements of his game that make him so desirable, am I right?
Seabrook is a decent skater. Montador is a horrible skater. Theres a reason he is known as the traffic cone in Buffalo.

Montador is ok for zone coverage, but on rushes he constantly gets beat. If the price isnt more than a 4th or something than it wouldnt be bad but still.

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02-09-2011, 01:43 PM
  #105
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I'm still interested in Kevin Bieksa.

I don't get to watch Vancouver all that much, but I notice that Bieksa has 6 goals this season.

For comparison: Beauchemin has 2, Kaberle 3, and Regehr 1.

Inconsistent or not, 6 goals would put him as 2nd on our team in terms of defensemen tallies.

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02-09-2011, 01:54 PM
  #106
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Aren't Canuck defenders dropping right and left? They probably need to keep him just to fill out the roster.

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02-09-2011, 01:56 PM
  #107
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Unfortunately the Nucks aren't in a position to deal Bieksa. Edler is out, Ballard got knocked the other night, and Ehrhoff is a pending UFA who they'll likely hang on to since there pushing for the Cup.

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02-09-2011, 02:10 PM
  #108
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I think if they miss out on a impact defensemen and all these other teams load up there we should counteract with another scorer. Maybe Hemski.

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02-09-2011, 02:23 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Seabrook is a decent skater. Montador is a horrible skater. Theres a reason he is known as the traffic cone in Buffalo.

Montador is ok for zone coverage, but on rushes he constantly gets beat. If the price isnt more than a 4th or something than it wouldnt be bad but still.
If Montador is a horrible skater, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the skating of Ohlund and Kubina.

Also, Montador wouldn't turn us into a serious cup contender, but it would help with our depth on D and he is an upgrade over Jones. Montador can bring a helpful type of grit and toughness as well, which doesn't hurt in a playoff run. For a low price, it wouldn't be a bad acquisition at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I'm still interested in Kevin Bieksa.

I don't get to watch Vancouver all that much, but I notice that Bieksa has 6 goals this season.

For comparison: Beauchemin has 2, Kaberle 3, and Regehr 1.

Inconsistent or not, 6 goals would put him as 2nd on our team in terms of defensemen tallies.
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Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
Unfortunately the Nucks aren't in a position to deal Bieksa. Edler is out, Ballard got knocked the other night, and Ehrhoff is a pending UFA who they'll likely hang on to since there pushing for the Cup.
This.

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02-09-2011, 02:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by BoltzBalla View Post
I think if they miss out on a impact defensemen and all these other teams load up there we should counteract with another scorer. Maybe Hemski.
Edmonton is a team on the upswing, I'd think they'd want to hang onto him. He's also under contract for one more season at 4.1 million. Good deal.

There's also the issue of not giving away too much in order to gain a player like that. I've liked Hemsky for many years now, so maybe I'm overrating him.

Speaking of Edmonton, rumor is that they're talking to Atlanta about Bogosian. Now there's a guy I'd want on our team, but that seems especially unlikely to happen.

At any rate, I'd rather keep the offensive core together. It's the defense that presents the best opportunity to upgrade.


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02-09-2011, 02:44 PM
  #111
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
If Montador is a horrible skater, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the skating of Ohlund and Kubina.

Also, Montador wouldn't turn us into a serious cup contender, but it would help with our depth on D and he is an upgrade over Jones. Montador can bring a helpful type of grit and toughness as well, which doesn't hurt in a playoff run. For a low price, it wouldn't be a bad acquisition at all.





This.
I would say that Ohlund and Kubina arent great skaters either. But they make up for it in other way in my opinion. Similar to Montador really. Which is another reason why I dont think he would be the prime target because frankly it just adds another dman similar to two we have already.

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02-09-2011, 02:44 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
If Montador is a horrible skater, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the skating of Ohlund and Kubina.

Also, Montador wouldn't turn us into a serious cup contender, but it would help with our depth on D and he is an upgrade over Jones. Montador can bring a helpful type of grit and toughness as well, which doesn't hurt in a playoff run. For a low price, it wouldn't be a bad acquisition at all.
FWIW, Jones was leading all defensemen in ice time in last night's blow out and still was +1. Kubina or Ohlund look far more out of place than Jones lately.

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02-09-2011, 02:49 PM
  #113
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Seabrook would be so awesome

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Old
02-09-2011, 04:40 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
FWIW, Jones was leading all defensemen in ice time in last night's blow out and still was +1. Kubina or Ohlund look far more out of place than Jones lately.
Jones played slightly less bad than everyone else, and didn't really factor into anything when he was on for the goals. Coming into the game I'm pretty sure he was dead last in +/- among our D as well. His play speaks for itself, Montador is easily a better option.

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02-09-2011, 05:52 PM
  #115
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Not really.

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02-09-2011, 06:09 PM
  #116
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guys guys c'mon. were obviously not contenders roloson is washed up and bipolar and the defense is worst in the nhl and hedman is only a sophomore.

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Old
02-09-2011, 06:47 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Not really.
I disagree

Are you the same one who said Jones was better than Bieksa?

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02-09-2011, 06:53 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
I disagree

Are you the same one who said Jones was better than Bieksa?
I was the one that said this year his production was on par and Bieksa was playing poorly, yes, well before Edler went down. I mean I guess we could use blanket statements to try to prove points, but whats the fun in that?

Montador is already struggling, he will be FAR FAR worse in our system that relies on mobility and a decent first pass.

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02-09-2011, 07:06 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
I was the one that said this year his production was on par and Bieksa was playing poorly, yes, well before Edler went down. I mean I guess we could use blanket statements to try to prove points, but whats the fun in that?

Montador is already struggling, he will be FAR FAR worse in our system that relies on mobility and a decent first pass.
Mobility, like Ohlund, Kubina, Smaby, Jones etc...

Montador didn't really have a bad first half of the season (so far) and he played well last year. In terms of being far worse in our system, I think it's the adjustments Montador would have to make to fit into the system rather than his ability to actually play well here, and the system itself. Getting used to a new system anywhere takes time and possibly presents some initial issues, but if Boucher can ice a regular D corps with the likes of Ohlund, Kubina and Jones, I don't think Montador would be a huge problem. Again, I can easily live without a deal for him being made, but I think he'd provide some depth and is a better player than Jones. Come playoff time, a gritty, veteran depth D-man isn't bad to have at a low price.

As for the Bieksa thing, I actually remember you saying how their stats were similar, but I specifically remember someone saying they prefer Jones over Bieksa. I don't think it was you though.

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02-09-2011, 07:56 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
I was the one that said this year his production was on par and Bieksa was playing poorly, yes, well before Edler went down. I mean I guess we could use blanket statements to try to prove points, but whats the fun in that?

Montador is already struggling, he will be FAR FAR worse in our system that relies on mobility and a decent first pass.
I think the point that is being missed is that Montador is a more realistic acquisition than Seabrook when you take into account the parameters (not moving any early round picks) that Yzerman has claimed he is going to follow when considering making any move.

Other options are certainly out there, but you have to consider whether those alternatives will cost in terms of assets and whether they will come with an expiring and inexpensive contract, because those seem to be of significant interest to Yzerman. Perhaps Yzerman makes a departure from his brief-yet-established M.O. and cashes in a few of the significant chips from the prospect cupboard and stock of draft picks, but, really, I wouldn't count on it. Thus, it's without the expectation for the Lightning to make a bold move that Montador starts make a heck of a lot of sense.

I mean, at the very (unlikely) worst he replaces Smaby as the 7th defenseman.

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02-09-2011, 08:22 PM
  #121
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List of all pending UFA defensemen:

NameTeamCap HitNTC/NMC
Paul Mara ANH 750k 
Andreas Lilja ANH 750k 
Brent Sopel ATL 2.333m 
Freddy Meyer ATL 600k 
Mark Stuart BOS 1.675m 
Craig Rivet BUF 3.500m 
Steve Montador BUF 1.550m 
Steve Staois CGY 2.700m 
Anton Babchuk CGY 1.400m 
Adam Pardy CGY700k 
Joni Pitkanen CAR 4.000m 
Ian White CAR 2.999m 
Jay Harrison CAR 500k 
Jordan Henry CHI 600k 
Nick Boynton CHI 500k 
Adam Foote COL 1.250m NTC
Jan Hejda CLB 2.000m 
Karlis Skrastins DLS 1.375m 
Jeff Woywitka DLS 650k 
Nicklas Lidstrom DET 6.200m 
Ruslan Salei DET 1.100m 
Jonathan Ericsson DET 900k 
Jim Vandermeer EDM 2.300m 
Jason Strudwick EDM 750k 
Bryan McCabe FLA 5.750m NMC
Peter Harrold LA 583k 
Andrei Markov MTL5.750m NTC
Roman Hamrlik MTL 5.500m NTC
James Wisniewski MTL 3.250m 
Hal Gill MTL 2.250m 
Shane O'Brien NSH 1.600m 
Alexander Sulzer NSH 650k 
Andy Greene NJ 738k 
Radek Martinek NYI 1.500m 
Steve Eminger NYR 1.125m 
Chris Phillips OTT 3.500m NTC
Sean O'Donnell PHI 1.300m 
Ed Jovanovski PHO 6.500m NTC
Niclas Wallin SJ 2.500m NTC
Kent Huskins SJ 1.700m 
Eric Brewer STL 4.250m NTC
Tomas Kaberle TOR 4.250m NTC
Kevin Bieksa VAN 3.750m 
Sami Salo VAN 3.500m NTC
Christian Ehrhoff VAN 3.100m 
Andrew Alberts VAN 1.050m 
Scott Hannan WSH 4.500m NMC


Last edited by LightningStrikes: 02-09-2011 at 08:40 PM.
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Old
02-09-2011, 08:57 PM
  #122
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With our health issues I don't think anybody would be against trading for a defenseman, depending on cost. Not sure what Jones has to do with it though, he would be at worst a seventh defenseman since Boucher typically does 11-7.

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02-09-2011, 09:11 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
Mobility, like Ohlund, Kubina, Smaby, Jones etc...

Montador didn't really have a bad first half of the season (so far) and he played well last year. In terms of being far worse in our system, I think it's the adjustments Montador would have to make to fit into the system rather than his ability to actually play well here, and the system itself. Getting used to a new system anywhere takes time and possibly presents some initial issues, but if Boucher can ice a regular D corps with the likes of Ohlund, Kubina and Jones, I don't think Montador would be a huge problem. Again, I can easily live without a deal for him being made, but I think he'd provide some depth and is a better player than Jones. Come playoff time, a gritty, veteran depth D-man isn't bad to have at a low price.

As for the Bieksa thing, I actually remember you saying how their stats were similar, but I specifically remember someone saying they prefer Jones over Bieksa. I don't think it was you though.
I said at the beginning of the year based on pay, play, and production i'd prefer Jones because they were very similar and I had doubts about Bieksa rebounding to his old form pre-achillies cut.

So yes, I did say it and I stand by it at the time I said it - i'm not sure anyone expected Bieksa to rebound the way he has (actually rounding out his defensive game i'm guessing out of a lack of former speed), so good on him.
Quote:
I think the point that is being missed is that Montador is a more realistic acquisition than Seabrook when you take into account the parameters (not moving any early round picks) that Yzerman has claimed he is going to follow when considering making any move.

Other options are certainly out there, but you have to consider whether those alternatives will cost in terms of assets and whether they will come with an expiring and inexpensive contract, because those seem to be of significant interest to Yzerman. Perhaps Yzerman makes a departure from his brief-yet-established M.O. and cashes in a few of the significant chips from the prospect cupboard and stock of draft picks, but, really, I wouldn't count on it. Thus, it's without the expectation for the Lightning to make a bold move that Montador starts make a heck of a lot of sense.

I mean, at the very (unlikely) worst he replaces Smaby as the 7th defenseman.
I understand that completely and discussed that about a page or so back. Do we go for a homerun trade and try to go deep in the playoffs by getting a Phillips type, or do we play it safe and cheap and stand pat or go after a kid buried in the minors that we think we can work in? We have a few different options, i'm sure... but at the same time we have to focus on the long term, we need a kid that will be ready to step into the top six in 1-2 years (Ashton, Panik, Connolly) and to get a few of these defensive prospects working.

I'm betting we hold steady and just try to get some guys playoff experience now and see what UFA/draft time brings us, but you never know.

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02-09-2011, 09:13 PM
  #124
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I get the feeling there's not going to be much movement unless it's for someone like Phillips but I think we'd get outbid on that one unless he decides he'd only waive his NTC for the Lightning.

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02-09-2011, 09:18 PM
  #125
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I get the feeling there's not going to be much movement unless it's for someone like Phillips but I think we'd get outbid on that one unless he decides he'd only waive his NTC for the Lightning.
Ottawa would most defiantly want Ashton in return.....only prospects......look at the asking price on fisher, trading with ott is out of our league

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