I dont want Montador near this team. You guys think Kubina or Ohlund are slow....ha.
C'mon, now. Speed is nice but it isn't the end-all, be-all characteristic of skating. Montador is strong on his skates and is pretty solid, from what I've seen, positionally. His game isn't flashy but, in short, he has repeatedly demonstrated he can be effective in the minutes he logs. If Buffalo stumbles over the next few weeks and drops out of the playoff picture, he'll be a low-cost rental in terms of assets required to obtain him and payroll impact. And he's off the books come July 1.
Also, it's not like Seabrook is known for his wheels. It's the other elements of his game that make him so desirable, am I right?
C'mon, now. Speed is nice but it isn't the end-all, be-all characteristic of skating. Montador is strong on his skates and is pretty solid, from what I've seen, positionally. His game isn't flashy but, in short, he has repeatedly demonstrated he can be effective in the minutes he logs. If Buffalo stumbles over the next few weeks and drops out of the playoff picture, he'll be a low-cost rental in terms of assets required to obtain him and payroll impact. And he's off the books come July 1.
Also, it's not like Seabrook is known for his wheels. It's the other elements of his game that make him so desirable, am I right?
Seabrook is a decent skater. Montador is a horrible skater. Theres a reason he is known as the traffic cone in Buffalo.
Montador is ok for zone coverage, but on rushes he constantly gets beat. If the price isnt more than a 4th or something than it wouldnt be bad but still.
Unfortunately the Nucks aren't in a position to deal Bieksa. Edler is out, Ballard got knocked the other night, and Ehrhoff is a pending UFA who they'll likely hang on to since there pushing for the Cup.
Seabrook is a decent skater. Montador is a horrible skater. Theres a reason he is known as the traffic cone in Buffalo.
Montador is ok for zone coverage, but on rushes he constantly gets beat. If the price isnt more than a 4th or something than it wouldnt be bad but still.
If Montador is a horrible skater, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the skating of Ohlund and Kubina.
Also, Montador wouldn't turn us into a serious cup contender, but it would help with our depth on D and he is an upgrade over Jones. Montador can bring a helpful type of grit and toughness as well, which doesn't hurt in a playoff run. For a low price, it wouldn't be a bad acquisition at all.
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python
I'm still interested in Kevin Bieksa.
I don't get to watch Vancouver all that much, but I notice that Bieksa has 6 goals this season.
For comparison: Beauchemin has 2, Kaberle 3, and Regehr 1.
Inconsistent or not, 6 goals would put him as 2nd on our team in terms of defensemen tallies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Downie
Unfortunately the Nucks aren't in a position to deal Bieksa. Edler is out, Ballard got knocked the other night, and Ehrhoff is a pending UFA who they'll likely hang on to since there pushing for the Cup.
I think if they miss out on a impact defensemen and all these other teams load up there we should counteract with another scorer. Maybe Hemski.
Edmonton is a team on the upswing, I'd think they'd want to hang onto him. He's also under contract for one more season at 4.1 million. Good deal.
There's also the issue of not giving away too much in order to gain a player like that. I've liked Hemsky for many years now, so maybe I'm overrating him.
Speaking of Edmonton, rumor is that they're talking to Atlanta about Bogosian. Now there's a guy I'd want on our team, but that seems especially unlikely to happen.
At any rate, I'd rather keep the offensive core together. It's the defense that presents the best opportunity to upgrade.
Last edited by Felonious Python: 02-09-2011 at 02:34 PM.
If Montador is a horrible skater, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the skating of Ohlund and Kubina.
Also, Montador wouldn't turn us into a serious cup contender, but it would help with our depth on D and he is an upgrade over Jones. Montador can bring a helpful type of grit and toughness as well, which doesn't hurt in a playoff run. For a low price, it wouldn't be a bad acquisition at all.
This.
I would say that Ohlund and Kubina arent great skaters either. But they make up for it in other way in my opinion. Similar to Montador really. Which is another reason why I dont think he would be the prime target because frankly it just adds another dman similar to two we have already.
If Montador is a horrible skater, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the skating of Ohlund and Kubina.
Also, Montador wouldn't turn us into a serious cup contender, but it would help with our depth on D and he is an upgrade over Jones. Montador can bring a helpful type of grit and toughness as well, which doesn't hurt in a playoff run. For a low price, it wouldn't be a bad acquisition at all.
FWIW, Jones was leading all defensemen in ice time in last night's blow out and still was +1. Kubina or Ohlund look far more out of place than Jones lately.
FWIW, Jones was leading all defensemen in ice time in last night's blow out and still was +1. Kubina or Ohlund look far more out of place than Jones lately.
Jones played slightly less bad than everyone else, and didn't really factor into anything when he was on for the goals. Coming into the game I'm pretty sure he was dead last in +/- among our D as well. His play speaks for itself, Montador is easily a better option.
Are you the same one who said Jones was better than Bieksa?
I was the one that said this year his production was on par and Bieksa was playing poorly, yes, well before Edler went down. I mean I guess we could use blanket statements to try to prove points, but whats the fun in that?
Montador is already struggling, he will be FAR FAR worse in our system that relies on mobility and a decent first pass.
I was the one that said this year his production was on par and Bieksa was playing poorly, yes, well before Edler went down. I mean I guess we could use blanket statements to try to prove points, but whats the fun in that?
Montador is already struggling, he will be FAR FAR worse in our system that relies on mobility and a decent first pass.
Mobility, like Ohlund, Kubina, Smaby, Jones etc...
Montador didn't really have a bad first half of the season (so far) and he played well last year. In terms of being far worse in our system, I think it's the adjustments Montador would have to make to fit into the system rather than his ability to actually play well here, and the system itself. Getting used to a new system anywhere takes time and possibly presents some initial issues, but if Boucher can ice a regular D corps with the likes of Ohlund, Kubina and Jones, I don't think Montador would be a huge problem. Again, I can easily live without a deal for him being made, but I think he'd provide some depth and is a better player than Jones. Come playoff time, a gritty, veteran depth D-man isn't bad to have at a low price.
As for the Bieksa thing, I actually remember you saying how their stats were similar, but I specifically remember someone saying they prefer Jones over Bieksa. I don't think it was you though.
I was the one that said this year his production was on par and Bieksa was playing poorly, yes, well before Edler went down. I mean I guess we could use blanket statements to try to prove points, but whats the fun in that?
Montador is already struggling, he will be FAR FAR worse in our system that relies on mobility and a decent first pass.
I think the point that is being missed is that Montador is a more realistic acquisition than Seabrook when you take into account the parameters (not moving any early round picks) that Yzerman has claimed he is going to follow when considering making any move.
Other options are certainly out there, but you have to consider whether those alternatives will cost in terms of assets and whether they will come with an expiring and inexpensive contract, because those seem to be of significant interest to Yzerman. Perhaps Yzerman makes a departure from his brief-yet-established M.O. and cashes in a few of the significant chips from the prospect cupboard and stock of draft picks, but, really, I wouldn't count on it. Thus, it's without the expectation for the Lightning to make a bold move that Montador starts make a heck of a lot of sense.
I mean, at the very (unlikely) worst he replaces Smaby as the 7th defenseman.
With our health issues I don't think anybody would be against trading for a defenseman, depending on cost. Not sure what Jones has to do with it though, he would be at worst a seventh defenseman since Boucher typically does 11-7.
Mobility, like Ohlund, Kubina, Smaby, Jones etc...
Montador didn't really have a bad first half of the season (so far) and he played well last year. In terms of being far worse in our system, I think it's the adjustments Montador would have to make to fit into the system rather than his ability to actually play well here, and the system itself. Getting used to a new system anywhere takes time and possibly presents some initial issues, but if Boucher can ice a regular D corps with the likes of Ohlund, Kubina and Jones, I don't think Montador would be a huge problem. Again, I can easily live without a deal for him being made, but I think he'd provide some depth and is a better player than Jones. Come playoff time, a gritty, veteran depth D-man isn't bad to have at a low price.
As for the Bieksa thing, I actually remember you saying how their stats were similar, but I specifically remember someone saying they prefer Jones over Bieksa. I don't think it was you though.
I said at the beginning of the year based on pay, play, and production i'd prefer Jones because they were very similar and I had doubts about Bieksa rebounding to his old form pre-achillies cut.
So yes, I did say it and I stand by it at the time I said it - i'm not sure anyone expected Bieksa to rebound the way he has (actually rounding out his defensive game i'm guessing out of a lack of former speed), so good on him.
Quote:
I think the point that is being missed is that Montador is a more realistic acquisition than Seabrook when you take into account the parameters (not moving any early round picks) that Yzerman has claimed he is going to follow when considering making any move.
Other options are certainly out there, but you have to consider whether those alternatives will cost in terms of assets and whether they will come with an expiring and inexpensive contract, because those seem to be of significant interest to Yzerman. Perhaps Yzerman makes a departure from his brief-yet-established M.O. and cashes in a few of the significant chips from the prospect cupboard and stock of draft picks, but, really, I wouldn't count on it. Thus, it's without the expectation for the Lightning to make a bold move that Montador starts make a heck of a lot of sense.
I mean, at the very (unlikely) worst he replaces Smaby as the 7th defenseman.
I understand that completely and discussed that about a page or so back. Do we go for a homerun trade and try to go deep in the playoffs by getting a Phillips type, or do we play it safe and cheap and stand pat or go after a kid buried in the minors that we think we can work in? We have a few different options, i'm sure... but at the same time we have to focus on the long term, we need a kid that will be ready to step into the top six in 1-2 years (Ashton, Panik, Connolly) and to get a few of these defensive prospects working.
I'm betting we hold steady and just try to get some guys playoff experience now and see what UFA/draft time brings us, but you never know.
I get the feeling there's not going to be much movement unless it's for someone like Phillips but I think we'd get outbid on that one unless he decides he'd only waive his NTC for the Lightning.
I get the feeling there's not going to be much movement unless it's for someone like Phillips but I think we'd get outbid on that one unless he decides he'd only waive his NTC for the Lightning.
Ottawa would most defiantly want Ashton in return.....only prospects......look at the asking price on fisher, trading with ott is out of our league
