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Team Building Exercise on Steroids: Habs lose 8-6 in the craziest game of the year.

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Old
02-10-2011, 11:02 AM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Fel 96 View Post
I hope nobody forget the Habs have a game tonight and fortunately, that game should be a decent one.
Hopefully they come out strong, they lost last time they played the Isles.

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02-10-2011, 11:03 AM
  #827
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Originally Posted by 11Goat11 View Post
Proud of the boys last night, they were never intimidated and if not for some shoddy defence and a couple of bad bounces would have won that game. All those crying out saying it was embarrassing for the Habs, please.. Thorton, Campbell, and Hunwick should be embarrassed for excessively beating non-fighters, when our players showed some class and didn't do the same i.e Pouliot and Price.

There is only 1 team that gives Montreal fits because of toughness and that is the Flyers, and that has more to do with their skill level than toughness. The Bruins aren't as talented as the Flyers and that is why we usually have no trouble beating them. Montreal doesn't need any goons, just a few more tougher players that can skate and fight.
Hunwick is a Colorado Avalanche now, and certainly not known for physical play regardless. Were you thinking of Boychuk? [/QUOTE]


Last edited by Habs 4 Life: 02-10-2011 at 11:23 AM.
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02-10-2011, 11:04 AM
  #828
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all this stuff about krejci is ridiculous. he ended up picking a fight with someone he didn't know could drop him (but is by no means a fighter) after his linemate threw an unnecessary hissy fit. that's hockey. if he didn't want to fight, he shouldn't have picked a fight after his linemate lashed out for no reason.

but re: his potential injuries, it's as simple as this. i don't hope that krejci is hurt because i have anything against krejci. i hope that krejci is hurt because the b's just lost savard and we're 4 pts behind them in the race for 3rd. so the b's sudden weakness down the middle might compare to the season ending injuries to markov and gorges that have decimated our defense (and here and there our power play).

so bruins fans can whine all they want about class (which is absurd in many ways) but this is hockey and it is an 82 game season. noone gets anywhere without injuries to their rivals (i personally don't think we'd be 4 pts back if markov and gorges were in the line-up) and to pretend otherwise is naive. so i don't hope krejci is hurt in a way that sacrifices his long-term career or anything like that. but the more games he misses (for picking a stupid fight after getting carried away with his teammates brutish swag) the better for us. so i'm not that sympathetic. that is all.

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02-10-2011, 11:07 AM
  #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Milles View Post
Thornton took advantage of Hamrlik.
To be honest, Hamrlik deserved everything he got.

He is a main reason why the whole melee started. The Moen/Ference fight was starting, and he fired a slapshot towards the Bruins net long after the play was dead. That's why Thornton went after him.

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02-10-2011, 11:07 AM
  #830
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He's right though. There's a reason why we've been arguing about toughness for some time now. It's a need. You won't see it in every game, but you will see it often...and in games like this it's more evident. The Devils outmuscled the Habs too.
Oh he's right, no doubt about it. But still, Frogurt is right: their first win against us in a very long time and they're suddenly becoming Joe Advice. Their PGT is funnier than all of this morning's newspaper funnies combined. I say let them have some fun. If the next game is a hockey game, they're in big trouble.

About last night's game:
1) Both defences were horrible, so the 14 goals were pretty unimpressive in that context.
2a) Most Flyers players can beat the spit out of half our roster. The Bruins, on the other hand, acted like smalltown thugs. The funny thing is, PK was about to go against Horton but then Lucic got into it. And they're calling PK a coward. They praise a guy that waits for the refs to hold someone before hitting them. Brave man. The Bruins are a fake tough team. Pyatt, Spacek and Max got a taste of it last night. When you start pumelling guys like that and continue to do so even if it's obvious they don't want to fight and are unable to do so, this just mean you're 5 years old in the head.
2b) Chara: rooting for that guy in a scrum/fight is like rooting for the Harlem Globetrotters. Of course he's going to beat you up! What's the challenge!?
3) c/o Bs fans: Pouliot is a non fighter. That DK guy got punched hard. Deal with it (see, I can also give advice).
4) About the USA chants: it's not about where the players are from, it's about what city they represent. Last night it was a USA team vs a canadian team. I couldn't care less about the chants.
5) We need toughness. Not a goon, a tough guy, a real one. Not because we need to play the kind of game we saw last night and it's also not about killing everyone on the opposing team, it's about giving our smaller players (ie 70% of the roster) more confidence.

Great game to watch, but I wanted the 2 points.

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02-10-2011, 11:12 AM
  #831
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Just a reminder, this is the Habs board. If you want to talk politics, or about world issues, this is the board that you go too.

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02-10-2011, 11:24 AM
  #832
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Oh he's right, no doubt about it. But still, Frogurt is right: their first win against us in a very long time and they're suddenly becoming Joe Advice. Their PGT is funnier than all of this morning's newspaper funnies combined. I say let them have some fun. If the next game is a hockey game, they're in big trouble.

About last night's game:
1) Both defences were horrible, so the 14 goals were pretty unimpressive in that context.
2a) Most Flyers players can beat the spit out of half our roster. The Bruins, on the other hand, acted like smalltown thugs. The funny thing is, PK was about to go against Horton but then Lucic got into it. And they're calling PK a coward. They praise a guy that waits for the refs to hold someone before hitting them. Brave man. The Bruins are a fake tough team. Pyatt, Spacek and Max got a taste of it last night. When you start pumelling guys like that and continue to do so even if it's obvious they don't want to fight and are unable to do so, this just mean you're 5 years old in the head.
2b) Chara: rooting for that guy in a scrum/fight is like rooting for the Harlem Globetrotters. Of course he's going to beat you up! What's the challenge!?
3) c/o Bs fans: Pouliot is a non fighter. That DK guy got punched hard. Deal with it (see, I can also give advice).
4) About the USA chants: it's not about where the players are from, it's about what city they represent. Last night it was a USA team vs a canadian team. I couldn't care less about the chants.
5) We need toughness. Not a goon, a tough guy, a real one. Not because we need to play the kind of game we saw last night and it's also not about killing everyone on the opposing team, it's about giving our smaller players (ie 70% of the roster) more confidence.

Great game to watch, but I wanted the 2 points.

Totally agree with you....we need a bit of toughness/size so we can deal with people like Lucic being able to sit in front of the net. We don't need a parade of goons so we can street fight the B's. We can already beat the B's in an actual game of hockey.

Flyers are another story. If we want to be able to compete with the Flyers, we need a couple of bigger bodies. Brewer, Penner, maybe throw some skates on Hulk Hogan?

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02-10-2011, 11:25 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Nightslyr View Post
Hunwick is a Colorado Avalanche now, and certainly not known for physical play regardless. Were you thinking of Boychuk?



Is it as bad as booing another country's anthem, as the Montreal crowd did a few years ago?
Yeah Boychuk, fake tough guy.

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02-10-2011, 11:27 AM
  #834
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Old
02-10-2011, 11:28 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Ayatollah Chowmeini View Post
all this stuff about krejci is ridiculous. he ended up picking a fight with someone he didn't know could drop him (but is by no means a fighter) after his linemate threw an unnecessary hissy fit. that's hockey. if he didn't want to fight, he shouldn't have picked a fight after his linemate lashed out for no reason.

but re: his potential injuries, it's as simple as this. i don't hope that krejci is hurt because i have anything against krejci. i hope that krejci is hurt because the b's just lost savard and we're 4 pts behind them in the race for 3rd. so the b's sudden weakness down the middle might compare to the season ending injuries to markov and gorges that have decimated our defense (and here and there our power play).

so bruins fans can whine all they want about class (which is absurd in many ways) but this is hockey and it is an 82 game season. noone gets anywhere without injuries to their rivals (i personally don't think we'd be 4 pts back if markov and gorges were in the line-up) and to pretend otherwise is naive. so i don't hope krejci is hurt in a way that sacrifices his long-term career or anything like that. but the more games he misses (for picking a stupid fight after getting carried away with his teammates brutish swag) the better for us. so i'm not that sympathetic. that is all.
Same here I laugh at all those who say he should have gotten after someone his size, like if Pouliot is a freaking fighter or something, what was that his 1st NHL fight? But what's funny is that guys like Chara who go after "non fighters" they find that totally right, like OMG they turtled away!

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02-10-2011, 11:37 AM
  #836
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Totally agree with you....we need a bit of toughness/size so we can deal with people like Lucic being able to sit in front of the net. We don't need a parade of goons so we can street fight the B's. We can already beat the B's in an actual game of hockey.

Flyers are another story. If we want to be able to compete with the Flyers, we need a couple of bigger bodies. Brewer, Penner, maybe throw some skates on Hulk Hogan?
Actually, I'm embarassed to say I'm a bit jealous of the Flyers. They have speed, toughness and 4 lines that can play. I hate them, but I wish we were more like them.

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02-10-2011, 11:41 AM
  #837
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I grew up watching hockey in the 80's. Gooning happened, but the Habs never got taken to the shed like last night. They stuck up for their players as well. We've been soft for over a decade now.
Not really true we had Begin, Souray, Rivet, Bouillon, Murray, Downey, Simpson, Komisarek and even Ivanans in 2005-2006 that team was not the most physical, but was not really intimidated and certainly not soft.

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02-10-2011, 11:41 AM
  #838
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Same here I laugh at all those who say he should have gotten after someone his size, like if Pouliot is a freaking fighter or something, what was that his 1st NHL fight? But what's funny is that guys like Chara who go after "non fighters" they find that totally right, like OMG they turtled away!
Only other fight I remember him having (with us) was beating up on Wade Redden and breaking his own hand. I think it's funny how B's fans get mad about the one fight we truly won all night (that they started).

If Krejci didn't want to fight, he shouldn't have. All those B's fans chanting "USA! USA!" should look at how they feel about the good ol' American myth of personal responsibility before they get their undies any further up their *****.

(And I am American.)

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02-10-2011, 11:47 AM
  #839
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Actually, I'm embarassed to say I'm a bit jealous of the Flyers. They have speed, toughness and 4 lines that can play. I hate them, but I wish we were more like them.
Don't like them, but gotta agree with you they are exactly the type of team I'd want the Habs to be. Ah well

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02-10-2011, 11:47 AM
  #840
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Oh he's right, no doubt about it. But still, Frogurt is right: their first win against us in a very long time and they're suddenly becoming Joe Advice. Their PGT is funnier than all of this morning's newspaper funnies combined. I say let them have some fun. If the next game is a hockey game, they're in big trouble.

About last night's game:
1) Both defences were horrible, so the 14 goals were pretty unimpressive in that context.
2a) Most Flyers players can beat the spit out of half our roster. The Bruins, on the other hand, acted like smalltown thugs. The funny thing is, PK was about to go against Horton but then Lucic got into it. And they're calling PK a coward. They praise a guy that waits for the refs to hold someone before hitting them. Brave man. The Bruins are a fake tough team. Pyatt, Spacek and Max got a taste of it last night. When you start pumelling guys like that and continue to do so even if it's obvious they don't want to fight and are unable to do so, this just mean you're 5 years old in the head.
2b) Chara: rooting for that guy in a scrum/fight is like rooting for the Harlem Globetrotters. Of course he's going to beat you up! What's the challenge!?
3) c/o Bs fans: Pouliot is a non fighter. That DK guy got punched hard. Deal with it (see, I can also give advice).
4) About the USA chants: it's not about where the players are from, it's about what city they represent. Last night it was a USA team vs a canadian team. I couldn't care less about the chants.
5) We need toughness. Not a goon, a tough guy, a real one. Not because we need to play the kind of game we saw last night and it's also not about killing everyone on the opposing team, it's about giving our smaller players (ie 70% of the roster) more confidence.

Great game to watch, but I wanted the 2 points.
Yeah its borderline retarded when you complain about one thing then cheer for the same thing in a game when it favors your team. If Pouliot had of hammered on Krejci or price hammered thomas (even though some on their board think since thomas had jersey he couldnt have got at him, intelligence right there) they would be outraged.
The subban thing is so true and why is it every time the habs play the bruins this year they always give some interview about how cheap the habs are and such. Krejci came out with some garbage after the cammalleri fight and now marchand talking all tough to the media. I guess its easy to talk tough when 8-15 other guys will fight before you.

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02-10-2011, 11:48 AM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Ayatollah Chowmeini View Post
Only other fight I remember him having (with us) was beating up on Wade Redden and breaking his own hand. I think it's funny how B's fans get mad about the one fight we truly won all night (that they started).

If Krejci didn't want to fight, he shouldn't have. All those B's fans chanting "USA! USA!" should look at how they feel about the good ol' American myth of personal responsibility before they get their undies any further up their *****.

(And I am American.)
yes but Krejci is "brave" for doing that

Sad the mentality of some fans

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02-10-2011, 11:59 AM
  #842
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Anyone else think the refs did an awful job and let the whole thing get completely out of control? After the first line brawl the only fighting major was to Price & Thomas who probably had the most tame fight of all. They shoulda been handing our majors & misconducts then, and warning the benches...
Yup agree with this.

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02-10-2011, 11:59 AM
  #843
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To be honest, Hamrlik deserved everything he got.

He is a main reason why the whole melee started. The Moen/Ference fight was starting, and he fired a slapshot towards the Bruins net long after the play was dead. That's why Thornton went after him.
You missed a part. From what I could see the whole thing got started, or at least that particular melee, when Ference took the skates right out from underneath Plekanec. Honestly I didn't see that part of the game - I'm just watching what video is available. Did the announcers mention the Ference trip?

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02-10-2011, 12:00 PM
  #844
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I have trouble with the "soft" label.

Calling the habs soft would imply that the habs crawl into their shells and wait for the game to end at the initiation of physical contact.
i used soft for lack of a better word, but i didn't necessarily mean that the team/players lack "heart".

I meant "soft" in the sense that we simply don't have players on our roster that play a "tough" style of game.

for example, guys like Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gill, Spacek, Pyatt, Pouliot (though he's been a little better in that department)... they almost NEVER finish a check, or take advantage of laying the body on a player by the boards who has the puck or has just released it.
Pyatt is a great example in this instance. Last night in the 3rd, he had someone completely lined up, the B's player had just touched the puck, had his side to the boards, saw Pyatt coming, and was even bracing for the hit... What does Pyatt do? He slows up and ends up barely "bumping" the player.
Why? not because Pyatt isn't willing to sacrifice his body (his PK shot blocking attests to that, not too mention his human punching bag display last night), but because he's not a "tough" player... he's not a player that is looking to punish the opposition when the opportunity presents itself.

now i don't want to get into a debate about why these guys play this way, or whether or not it benefits them/the team, my point is simply that we have too many players in that mold, and not enough in the mold of a Corson or Lemieux, who while not ONLY looking for that, certainly took pleasure in dishing out physical pain to the opposition.

I'd be fine to call this something other than "soft", as I realize that the label often implies a lack of "heart" or willingness to stand up for oneself. For the most part, our guys show a lot of both.

I think Pleks is a good example of what I mean. He has clearly added a "toughness" to his game over time. While he certainly isn't a guy who is dishing out big hits regularly, if you watch the way he forechecks and the way he plays along the boards, he gets far more physical and uses his body far more on the opposition than the bulk of our other smallish guys. I think he realized that despite being small, he could be more effective by physically pressuring the opposition whenever possible.

in contrast, a massive guy like Gill, who you'd expect to absolutely destroy people in the corners, rarely dishes out heavy hits... but I bet that he's developed this way as a result of realizing that he's more effective when he doesn't hit... and that's because his complete lack of mobility/foot speed means that any time he commits to a hit, he puts himself out of the play for too long.

so yes, I agree that our team DOES NOT lack heart or determination for the most part.

but call it soft or something else, it's clear that we DO lack players who can/want to dish out physical play to the opposition.

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You can definitely argue that the habs dont have fighters, but the team does not back down or get intimidated by physical play which is the opposite of soft.
you say this, but then follow with...

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The game was crazy tonight and I think both martin and julien will burn the game film as quick as possible... but hey, it was damn entertaining.

I think the key here was that the habs got caught up in boston's kind of game instead of utilizing their speed and composure which has prevailed so often against these Bs. The composure part really hurt the habs, and I think this lead to alot of missed assignments defensively.
I think a very strong argument could be made that we "got caught up in Boston's kind of game" as a result of physical intimidation, or at least the B's attempt at it.

when a guy like Lucic is running your goalie and cross checking him in the face, you have no choice but to respond, physically.

Our small "soft" guys end up stuck in a dilemma of trying to stick up for themselves/teammates, but to do so for most of them means getting away from their style of play.

Boston intimidation tactics is, imo, EXACTLY what took us off of our game.

If you have a Neil type who goes after Lucic right after that incident, the other guys can stick to their game...

and if you have a few Neil/Moen types sprinkled in the lineup, the Horton's and McQuaids of the world are all of a sudden a whole lot less likely to be throwing their weight around so violently.

it is precisely because the B's (or the flyers, or any other team with a little bit of toughness) can play that way without fear of repercussion, that they go over the top with our guys (and why our "chirping" is so reviled by them... all teams chirp, but most actually have some guys that can back it up, hence why the B's/Flyers are probably the worst at it, and yes that does make them serious hypocrites, but that's another story).

Not sure if you have played contact sports at a high level, but keeping one's composure when facing a team that KNOWS it can kick the crap of your team, is incredibly difficult. Even if as a team, you show great "balls" and don't back down, there are bound to be a few guys that it gets to, and once a shark smells blood... well we all saw what happened last night.

i've been on several teams that were younger/smaller than the opposition, and a credit to our coaches and players, we rarely backed down from anyone... but as far as sticking to our game plan and keeping our composure? well, unfortunately, far too often the need to focus on "not backing down" meant our team wasn't focusing on the other aspects we needed to win.

and if I'm the Bruins players, I'm licking my chops at the next chance to play montreal...

somehow, i don't think Spacek, Pyatt, MaxPac etc. are feeling the same way.

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02-10-2011, 12:11 PM
  #845
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Don't kill me, it ain't like that

On the Krejci thing, I'm fine with it. The game was intense, chippy, and it got out of hand real fast. Krejci decided to jump in, and he got smoked. That is his own fault for being the willing participant. To wish injury on the guy though? Pretty lame.

Needless to say, I want nothing to do with Montreal in the playoffs. My heart cannot take it anymore.

And because it's pretty much hfboards mandated, this is my obligatory usage of the word class.

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02-10-2011, 12:16 PM
  #846
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On the Krejci thing, I'm fine with it. The game was intense, chippy, and it got out of hand real fast. Krejci decided to jump in, and he got smoked. That is his own fault for being the willing participant. To wish injury on the guy though? Pretty lame.

Needless to say, I want nothing to do with Montreal in the playoffs. My heart cannot take it anymore.

And because it's pretty much hfboards mandated, this is my obligatory usage of the word class.
And yet, I believe we are the most common matchup in history of the NHL.

Wouldn't it be funny if, by the end, it's all end up with determining who's leader of the division, while the other one will automatically end up 6th place?

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02-10-2011, 12:21 PM
  #847
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Shawn Thornton beating up Hamrlik with a minute left in a 3 goal game says absolutely nothing about that team's willingness to stand up for each other. It's just a guy who's paid to fight getting a little carried away in an emotional game. Same for Campbell on Pyatt. There was no real message to be sent from that, other than that those guys are opportunistic and relentless when it comes to taking advantage of fighting non-fighters.

The Bruins "made their stand" against an easy target which sends a pretty hollow message to the league. It was what it was. A tougher team deciding to take liberties against another team they dislike late in the game. There's nothing really wrong with it, but trying to lionize their cause or the event is pointless.

It might have some significance if they ever do it against a team that fits into the context of your narrative. Such as, the team that shattered their hopes and confidence last year. Or the team who has a clown that destroyed the career of one of their best players. They've had the opportunity to send the relevant messages you speak about before, but they haven't (and I highly doubt they will in the future).
I'm not sure i necessarily disagree except to your point about making a stand against and "easy target". Boston did the exact same thing the other night against Dallas. Dallas started with a tough guy line-up and it didn't work out very well for them - both in terms of the fights or the result. In another recent game Ference jumped a guy that went low on Lucic (not that Lucic needed the protection), McQuaid took on a guy who ran Marchand, etc.. That all stems from the "non response" in the Savard and Bergeron situations and is a carry over. It's been happening all season. They've gone from being passive to aggressive. End of story.

Last night was a bit of an aberration, however. Most about the rivalry and the tightness in standing, but a lot attributed to the agitators (Marchand, Pacioretty, Subban). Tempers got heated and the Bruins had more firepower in that category.

Much of the tenor coming into the game stemmed from Pacioretty giving Chara the "get out of here, punk" shove after he scored the OT winner. A rookie agitator shoving a guy like Chara --- did he really expect that would serve as a lightning rod down the line?

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02-10-2011, 12:28 PM
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On the Krejci thing, I'm fine with it. The game was intense, chippy, and it got out of hand real fast. Krejci decided to jump in, and he got smoked. That is his own fault for being the willing participant. To wish injury on the guy though? Pretty lame.

Needless to say, I want nothing to do with Montreal in the playoffs. My heart cannot take it anymore.

And because it's pretty much hfboards mandated, this is my obligatory usage of the word class.

So Krejci got hurt from his fight?

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02-10-2011, 12:33 PM
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...Last night was a bit of an aberration, however. Most about the rivalry and the tightness in standing, but a lot attributed to the agitators (Marchand, Pacioretty, Subban). Tempers got heated and the Bruins had more firepower in that category...
Those two bolded words shouldn't be in the same sentence. And if it's based solely on that 'herculean' push he gave Chara at the end of that other game, that's ridiculous.

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02-10-2011, 12:36 PM
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I'm not sure i necessarily disagree except to your point about making a stand against and "easy target". Boston did the exact same thing the other night against Dallas. Dallas started with a tough guy line-up and it didn't work out very well for them - both in terms of the fights or the result. In another recent game Ference jumped a guy that went low on Lucic (not that Lucic needed the protection), McQuaid took on a guy who ran Marchand, etc.. That all stems from the "non response" in the Savard and Bergeron situations and is a carry over. It's been happening all season. They've gone from being passive to aggressive. End of story.

Last night was a bit of an aberration, however. Most about the rivalry and the tightness in standing, but a lot attributed to the agitators (Marchand, Pacioretty, Subban). Tempers got heated and the Bruins had more firepower in that category.

Much of the tenor coming into the game stemmed from Pacioretty giving Chara the "get out of here, punk" shove after he scored the OT winner. A rookie agitator shoving a guy like Chara --- did he really expect that would serve as a lightning rod down the line?

And yet the only response from Chara for that incident was a cheap slash to the back of Pacioretty's leg..

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