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A Divided Kopitar Cannot Stand

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Old
02-11-2011, 11:24 PM
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Zad
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A Divided Kopitar Cannot Stand

When JDM told me his thoughts on the Kopitar situation or, better written, his perspective on it, my first thought was "****ing brilliant". Now that he has written about it, I had to share it.

Click on the link for more.

Quote:
Anze Kopitar. The new hot button issue. 1 goal in 20 games. 2 in 25, or something like that. Lots of assists, but to say Kopi is in a scoring drought is…well, it’s accurate. The numbers in one column aren’t there for our star center and it’s all anyone can talk about at the moment.

It sparks a debate, one Dean Lombardi has caused for two years now, one-sided though it may have been and it all arises from one question: Is there any point to acquiring another high-end forward if Kopitar isn’t pulling his own weight? For such a short question, it sure does ask a hell of a lot or, rather, it raises more questions such as is getting Kopi a winger a bailout and therefore the wrong message to send? Will it matter who is on his wing if he can’t dominate on his own. ****, Crosby does his thing as well as anyone with Pascal Dupuis on his wing, and we all know nothing good ever came from anyone named Pascal.

Well, I hate to break it to you, but Kopitar is not Crosby… Kopitar has played every game in 2011.
http://lakingsnews.com/2011/02/11/a-...can-not-stand/

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02-11-2011, 11:37 PM
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Amazing.

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02-11-2011, 11:47 PM
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Amazing article

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02-12-2011, 12:24 AM
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Good, well-reasoned article, but, as a wise man once said, he's not getting paid $6.8M to be a Michal Handzus.

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02-12-2011, 12:25 AM
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JDM
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Good, well-reasoned article, but, as a wise man once said, he's not getting paid $6.8M to be a Michal Handzus.
Don't blame Kopitar for being what the team has not only asked him to be, but necessitated him to be.

How much is too much to expect of one player, regardless of how good they are or how much they are getting paid? Every great player has had great players next to them... those that have not have never won ****.

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02-12-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Don't blame Kopitar for being what the team has not only asked him to be, but necessitated him to be.

How much is too much to expect of one player, regardless of how good they are or how much they are getting paid? Every great player has had great players next to them... those that have not have never won ****.
Hey, you yourself mentioned who Crosby plays with. And no, I'm not expecting Kopitar to be Crosby.

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02-12-2011, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Hey, you yourself mentioned who Crosby plays with. And no, I'm not expecting Kopitar to be Crosby.
Yes, but he has someone whose nickname is Geno playing behind him. He is not the only star forward on that team, which is my point.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk.

Crosby, Malkin.

Sedin, Sedin.

Flyers are a bit different as they have like 7 great weapons up front.

Toews, Kane.

Lecavalier, St. Louis, Richards.

Kopitar.... ummmmmmm. Dwight King?

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02-12-2011, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Yes, but he has someone whose nickname is Geno playing behind him. He is not the only star forward on that team, which is my point.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk.

Crosby, Malkin.

Sedin, Sedin.

Flyers are a bit different as they have like 7 great weapons up front.

Toews, Kane.

Lecavalier, St. Louis, Richards.

Kopitar.... ummmmmmm. Dwight King?
C'mon a small experiment necessitated due to injuries and your going to use that to make that point.

Try more like Kopitar, Williams, Smyth

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02-12-2011, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Yes, but he has someone whose nickname is Geno playing behind him. He is not the only star forward on that team, which is my point.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk.

Crosby, Malkin.

Sedin, Sedin.

Flyers are a bit different as they have like 7 great weapons up front.

Toews, Kane.

Lecavalier, St. Louis, Richards.
Don't look for me to argue that it wouldn't be great if the Kings were to get a second legitimate offensive threat to complement Justin Williams ( - j/k (or am I?))

The point is, great players don't beg for GMs to get those players, they don't think (much less say) that nobody needs to be great as long as everyone's good, they don't as much like winning as they absolutely hate losing, and our little boy has long ways to go in his path of becoming that player.

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02-12-2011, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
C'mon a small experiment necessitated due to injuries and your going to use that to make that point.
That was a joke.

Fine... Smyth? Not a star anymore. Brown? Hah. Loki, maybe one day. Simmer, no way. Stoll... we can't even all agree if he is a 2nd line center let alone a great one. Parse... who? Williams is the closest thing on this team to a star forward outside Kopitar, but in no way is Williams a star forward. He's a very good to great forward, but not nearly on the level of any of the other players I mentioned or the other star forwards that winning teams possess outside of their #1 centers.

Though to be fair, it wasn't a small experiment. It was the best damn answer Murray or Lombardi had early on in the season to a problem they have yet to rectify.

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02-12-2011, 12:38 AM
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Zad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
C'mon a small experiment necessitated due to injuries and your going to use that to make that point.

Try more like Kopitar, Williams, Smyth
Williams is the only one that supports the position and even then, misses the point. We are talking about top line winger, a star. I love Justin but a star he is not.

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02-12-2011, 12:40 AM
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JDM
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Don't look for me to argue that it wouldn't be great if the Kings were to get a second legitimate offensive threat to complement Justin Williams ( - j/k (or am I?))

The point is, great players don't beg for GMs to get those players, they don't think (much less say) that nobody needs to be great as long as everyone's good, they don't as much like winning as they absolutely hate losing, and our little boy has long ways to go in his path of becoming that player.
Who said Kopi is begging?

Lombardi drafted Clifford because you can't paint stripes on a cat and expect it to be a tiger. So why does he keep approaching Kopitar with a paint brush instead of a forward of his caliber?

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02-12-2011, 12:46 AM
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My sentiments exactly.

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"I think part of his game is he’s over aggressive at times, which I like. We’ll tame that. I’d rather tame a lion than paint stripes on the kitty cat." - Dean Lombardi discussing Brayden McNabb
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02-12-2011, 12:46 AM
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johnjm22
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I agree that the coaching staff could handle Kopitar better, and of course you're always going to benefit from playing with better linemates, but that article didn't put a single shred of blame on Anze, which is ridiculous.

Why can't he score in the shoot out? or on the power play anymore? Is it because of defensive responsibilities, and linemates in those situations too?

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02-12-2011, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I agree that the coaching staff could handle Kopitar better, and of course you're always going to benefit from playing with better linemates, but that article didn't put a single shred of blame on Anze, which is ridiculous.

Why can't he score in shoot out, or on the power play anymore? Is it because of defensive responsibilities, and linemates in those situations too?
Shootouts are shootouts, goaltenders always have the advantage and sometimes it is not your day. The powerplay is inept across the board. It also doesn't help that Kopitar is made to play the half-board and to try and setup defensemen who shoot into shins all day long because other teams know all they have to do is cover the shooting lanes from the slot and our system fails. Our defensemen are told to force the shot from the point, and our opposition knows it.

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02-12-2011, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I agree that the coaching staff could handle Kopitar better, and of course you're always going to benefit from playing with better linemates, but that article didn't put a single shred of blame on Anze, which is ridiculous.

Why can't he score in the shoot out? or on the power play anymore? Is it because of defensive responsibilities, and linemates in those situations too?
To be honest, I meant to write about the powerplay and I forgot to.

Powerplay... well that has been a sore spot for the entire team the entire season, save for some short spells and a game or two of DD and JJ being on fire.

The shootout... don't give a ****. Not a problem for this team in any way really. Or atleast, much MUCH lower on the list of problems.

Sure there is blame to be put on Anze. Guess I figured that one was obvious... the stick is still in his hands. He's definitely in a slump and its definitely not the first time its happened. This was more in response to people flinging around the notion that Kopi's heart isn't in the game or that he is playing POORLY, which is horse ****. His offense has slipped pretty far off the map, but he is still playing well in every other facet of the game.

My point is that perhaps sending a message TO Kopitar is the right thing to do, instead of sitting on your hands and waiting for him to deliver you a message. Two way streets. Just because it all hinges on Kopitar doesn't mean we should do everything to reinforce him.

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02-12-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Who said Kopi is begging?
Ok, maybe begging is a strong word, but wasn't it our glorious captain and assistant captain saying two offseasons ago how much they wanted a top-line scorer to get acquired to help them? I think that was during the Gaborik summer, but I'm not gonna scour the Hammonddom to find the quote.

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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Lombardi drafted Clifford because you can't paint stripes on a cat and expect it to be a tiger. So why does he keep approaching Kopitar with a paint brush instead of a forward of his caliber?
Because the canvas on which he wants to use that paintbrush and the right to paint whatever the **** he wants on it was included in the $6.8M per year price.

Look, I think everyone involved here shares the blame. Lombardi has his share, so certainly does that god-awful "coach" of ours, among others. However, by no means do the facts that Lombardi hasn't been successful yet in rounding out the top lines, or that Terry Murray is in all kinds of ways challenged, absolve Kopitar from not asserting himself as he should, as he's capable of, as he's paid to be. I don't mind him not succeeding without adequate help, but I do mind him not trying hard enough as he's biding his time until that help arrives.

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02-12-2011, 01:06 AM
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I do t think kopi is biding his time for help. Nor do think he is dogging it out there. I think he is in a scoring slum and that we need help for when those slumps happen, as they will with all players. Kopi knows he has to be better right now.

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02-12-2011, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
To be honest, I meant to write about the powerplay and I forgot to.

Powerplay... well that has been a sore spot for the entire team the entire season, save for some short spells and a game or two of DD and JJ being on fire.

The shootout... don't give a ****. Not a problem for this team in any way really. Or atleast, much MUCH lower on the list of problems.

Sure there is blame to be put on Anze. Guess I figured that one was obvious... the stick is still in his hands. He's definitely in a slump and its definitely not the first time its happened. This was more in response to people flinging around the notion that Kopi's heart isn't in the game or that he is playing POORLY, which is horse ****. His offense has slipped pretty far off the map, but he is still playing well in every other facet of the game.

My point is that perhaps sending a message TO Kopitar is the right thing to do, instead of sitting on your hands and waiting for him to deliver you a message. Two way streets. Just because it all hinges on Kopitar doesn't mean we should do everything to reinforce him.
I only brought up shoot outs because they demonstrate Kopitar's current lack of offensive execution. He's what? 0 for his last 5? That's very un-Kopitar like. Have you ever seen him flub a shoot out attempt like that last one in Calgary? I haven't. Something is clearly wrong with him.

I never question his heart though. I know it's there. Did you see his body language when he came back to bench after the aforementioned shootout attempt? It was sad. Probably the saddest I've ever seen him look.

As for the power play, this is from Quisp:
Quote:
On the power-play, Kopitar's 6th among Kings forwards in G/60. That sounds better, until you realize he's last among the forwards who have scored on the PP at all. Everyone below Kopitar has played less than 50 minutes PP time all year. Kopitar leads the team, with 196 minutes.
Ouch. And you can't blame the Kings PP for it. Team is average with the man advantage. Not good, not bad, just average.

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02-12-2011, 01:11 AM
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A most insightful piece.

If only it can be most inciteful, should the right person read it

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02-12-2011, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Goallum View Post
Ok, maybe begging is a strong word, but wasn't it our glorious captain and assistant captain saying two offseasons ago how much they wanted a top-line scorer to get acquired to help them? I think that was during the Gaborik summer, but I'm not gonna scour the Hammonddom to find the quote.

Because the canvas on which he wants to use that paintbrush and the right to paint whatever the **** he wants on it was included in the $6.8M per year price.

Look, I think everyone involved here shares the blame. Lombardi has his share, so certainly does that god-awful "coach" of ours, among others. However, by no means do the facts that Lombardi hasn't been successful yet in rounding out the top lines, or that Terry Murray is in all kinds of ways challenged, absolve Kopitar from not asserting himself as he should, as he's capable of, as he's paid to be. I don't mind him not succeeding without adequate help, but I do mind him not trying hard enough as he's biding his time until that help arrives.
What exactly is the expectation here my bright south county friend? That Kopitar play excellent defense and offense? That he shut down the opposing team's top line while scoring goals and clicking at a point per game pace? That he break through Murray's system built around the perimeter with a cycle to the point and intercept the puck before it reaches the defenseman and take it in himself? If so, me thinks thou dost protest too much.

Anze is excelling on one end of the ice and struggling at the other. A true slump is that of Dustin Brown, who brings nothing to either.

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02-12-2011, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I only brought up shoot outs because they demonstrate Kopitar's current lack of offensive execution. He's what? 0 for his last 5? That's very un-Kopitar like. Have you ever seen him flub a shoot out attempt like that last one in Calgary? I haven't. Something is clearly wrong with him.

I never question his heart though. I know it's there. Did you see his body language when he came back to bench after the aforementioned shootout attempt? It was sad. Probably the saddest I've ever seen him look.

As for the power play, this is from Quisp:
Ouch. And you can't blame the Kings PP for it. Team is average with the man advantage. Not good, not bad, just average.
I've been busy as **** lately and missed the Calgary shootout so I can't comment on it.

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02-12-2011, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I only brought up shoot outs because they demonstrate Kopitar's current lack of offensive execution. He's what? 0 for his last 5? That's very un-Kopitar like. Have you ever seen him flub a shoot out attempt like that last one in Calgary? I haven't. Something is clearly wrong with him.

I never question his heart though. I know it's there. Did you see his body language when he came back to bench after the aforementioned shootout attempt? It was sad. Probably the saddest I've ever seen him look.
Kopitar has no confidence right now, and I think it really is as simple as that. It's not that he's deficient as a #1 center, not that he's not playing his hardest, not that he has poor linemates, or any other excuse. He's just inside his own head too much.

It's the same problem Doughty was having early in the season. DD turned things around, I'm sure Kopi will as well. He's too good not to. One lucky bounce goal and a nice snipe and he'll have his swagger back.

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02-12-2011, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I do t think kopi is biding his time for help. Nor do think he is dogging it out there. I think he is in a scoring slum and that we need help for when those slumps happen, as they will with all players. Kopi knows he has to be better right now.
Not purposely, he doesn't. He coasts (offensively) and that's become his modus operandi. Perhaps partially due to being zombified by Hairy Furry and his system, he stopped asserting himself whatsoever as that dominant take-the-bull-by-the-horns offensive threat. Scoring slumps are whiffing on the puck a lot, hitting the post a lot, not being able to beat the goalie too much because the timing is a little off. Getting half a sniff of a scoring chance every two games is something different all together.

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02-12-2011, 01:25 AM
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I posted this in the PGT, but it's probably better here. Just my general thoughts on this whole issue.


Irregardless of linemates, when Kopitar plays aggressive he produces, when he's lackadaisical, he does not produce.

Sure, the more skilled the line mates the better....BUT, a line mate isn't going to make Kopitar hungry or aggressive; that's on Anze.

This guy has led the entire NHL in scoring on more then one occasion, and his line mates had very little to do with it.

If we bring in another scorer, it will be to make up for Anze's lack of production, not to "help" it, because it can't be helped. Anze is such a force, that only he determines when he's productive, and when he's not.

Also, I think the coaching staff, Anze himself, and most of the posters around here misunderstand what makes Kopitar successful offensively. He's better as a scorer, not a playmaker that feeds scoring wingers. Think Jagr. Jaromir always racked up assists even though he was primarily considered a goal scorer. Sure, he was good passer, and often set people up, but many of his assists resulted from him creating scoring chances for himself first, and his linemates capitalizing on rebounds, or a last second pass when Jagr ran out of room. That's why he had so many assists, and that's why Smyth was racking up the points when playing with a hungry Anze early in the 09-10 season. Smyth, slow as he is, has a knack for being in the right place at the right time, and was able to take advantage of Kopitar's left overs. Williams at the time was just average. You could have put any competent NHLer in that spot and they would have been scoring points.

Now before I get laughed at for comparing Kopitar to Jagr, keep in mind I'm not comparing their specific skill sets. Obviously Jagr had better pucks skills, better instincts, and an amazingly strong lower body, but I think that when Anze is at his best, he has a similar effect on the game, and his linemate's production. AK has something in common with all the great scorers of the past decades; when he's on his game, he IS going to score regardless of whose around him.

Here's a couple Kopitar "assists" I found from his rookie year. You know, back when he created offense by actually trying to score goals for himself 1st.

Please watch:
http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...ent=LAK1220301

http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...ent=MIN1021657

http://video.kings.nhl.com/videocent...ent=LAK1153810

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