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Why do the Rangers have the same problems, year, after year, after year, after year?

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Old
02-10-2011, 12:14 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Yeah but I have no regrets about that. The 2007 team that lost to Buffalo was my favorite since 1994. I loved that team, and a bounce here, a bounce there, they have a shot at the Cup. They were close to beating Buffalo.

Amen to that, people seem to forget how close we were that year. If Miller wasent a super hero that series would have been ours in 6.

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02-10-2011, 12:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The blame lies with Sather. That's the simple explanation.

In reality, it's a combination of everything that's happened under his tenure. The mistakes he made pulled this team into a state of mediocrity that was offset just enough by the acquisition of Jagr, and the emergence of Lundqvist to be "passable" to the fan base, and to the ownership.

It's nice to see that we're implementing more youth into our line up, and that we're putting a stronger emphasis on drafting and developing our own players. However, there will always be that part of me that dreads July 1st. Sather hasn't learned the error of his ways, he's just handcuffed himself enough that he's at the point where he cannot be the guy getting all the press on the first day of free agency.

Whats worse is that this mentality has rooted itself in the fan base. Even the majority of "hardcore" fans on this board are constantly discussing who we should go after at the deadline, and what free agents we can get on July 1st. I understand the desire for Richards, but when people star throwing out names like Connolly I feel like slapping them.

Then there's the issue of "bad contracts" getting in the way of us offering those same contracts to other people. Which just makes very little sense to me. "Buy out Drury so we can get Richards!" Okay, sure. So what happens if Richards signs elsewhere, or stays in Dallas? Do you think Sather is going to stick that money in his pocket for another day?

Build from within, then when you have a solid core, try and upgrade by trading redundant assets. If necessary, attempt to target a UFA. Sather has been doing it backwards for far too long.
Good points man, but if they do buyout Drury it doesent have to be Richards replacing him, id take pretty much anyone or even nothing and wait until a real chance arrives.

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02-10-2011, 12:33 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The blame lies with Sather. That's the simple explanation.

In reality, it's a combination of everything that's happened under his tenure. The mistakes he made pulled this team into a state of mediocrity that was offset just enough by the acquisition of Jagr, and the emergence of Lundqvist to be "passable" to the fan base, and to the ownership.

It's nice to see that we're implementing more youth into our line up, and that we're putting a stronger emphasis on drafting and developing our own players. However, there will always be that part of me that dreads July 1st. Sather hasn't learned the error of his ways, he's just handcuffed himself enough that he's at the point where he cannot be the guy getting all the press on the first day of free agency.

Whats worse is that this mentality has rooted itself in the fan base. Even the majority of "hardcore" fans on this board are constantly discussing who we should go after at the deadline, and what free agents we can get on July 1st. I understand the desire for Richards, but when people star throwing out names like Connolly I feel like slapping them.

Then there's the issue of "bad contracts" getting in the way of us offering those same contracts to other people. Which just makes very little sense to me. "Buy out Drury so we can get Richards!" Okay, sure. So what happens if Richards signs elsewhere, or stays in Dallas? Do you think Sather is going to stick that money in his pocket for another day?

Build from within, then when you have a solid core, try and upgrade by trading redundant assets. If necessary, attempt to target a UFA. Sather has been doing it backwards for far too long.
Okay, getting a player like Connolly is just a stupid decision for any team to make. Sather obviously took this team down the wrong road before the lockout. We should’ve started rebuilding in 98’. You know we were never that bad to get the kind of young talent that you can build a contender with. We’ve got some nice young players Here and a good core developing, but let’s not be delusional. We still need more talent all around. Sather has been doing a lot of backtracking post lockout to try to compensate But the players he brought in just didn’t work out. This shouldn’t mean that we stop looking for talent outside of this organization. Bringing in talent via UFA and trades is also part of the rebuilding process.

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Old
02-10-2011, 12:36 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Here's what I said:

The Red Wings didn't get lucky with Zetterberg. Most teams just never devoted enough scouting to Russia and Sweden. Zetterberg, Lundqvist, Datsyuk...IMO, it is HIGHLY unlikwly that we'll see players that good get drafted that late ever again. Everyone is scouting those nations now, because now everyone realizes the value of it.

As you can see (though I imagine you'll refuse to), I made absolutely no mention about first, second or third round picks. What I said that a player as good as Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Lundqvist would probably never be drafted as late as they were (which, of course, is 7th and 8th round) again.


Here's how you responded:

NUMBER 1

So you're saying there will never be a Parise again? late round 1sts, 2nds, 3rds. Come on there will always be guys who go well over their projections. maybe not a 7th steal like you're saying but you're completely leaving out steals in earlier rounds or late 1sts and that's important to note. We have to be the ones to catch lightning in a bottle which is what every team tries to do and generally 31 teams every year fail if you wanna be so black and white about it.

NUMBER 2
Even you can (hopefully) see that I never said anything like "there will never be a Parise again." What I said doesn't even come close to proclaiming anything of the sort (and why would it, when that claim would be totally absurd?). But that doesn't stop you from not only saying that this is what I said, but then proceeding to develop an entire argument based on that.

This, of course, is what you do nearly every time you try to "argue" my points (and by argue, I mean hijack a thread and do everything you possibly can to kill and bury it). I say one thing, and you twist it around into something that bears no resemblance to what I said, and then begin debating that point. I don't know if it's because you are afraid, or simply because you enjoy wasting people's time and detracting from the experience on the boards. But you aren't interested in having a debate with me. You're, in effect, debating yourself. This is when you aren't busy anointing yourself as an unofficial moderator by accusing various people who don't agree with your opinions of being trolls, despite the fact that you don't seem to know what the definition of a troll is.

NUMBER 3
When you actually want to address points that I've made, then there is a debate to be had. But I don't know how to have a debate with you and the other you.


NUMBER 4
I don't even think the stuff that I'm quoting is relevant. There would have to be importance there for anyone to be able to comprehend them, but what's actually there, in nearly every instance, is either something that you've perverted and misconstrued, something that you've repeated several times over, or something that is completely irrelevant to the discussion. While you may not care about the other people reading this board, I don't feel it's necessary for them to have to see this stuff 3-4-5 times on every page.


NUMBER 5
Sure it does. You're accusing me of saying something I didn't say, just like I've proven that you did in the above example. That means you are lying. Anyone who cares (and I can't imagine that any one does) can simply scroll up or click on the previous page and see how you repeat this pattern.


NUMBER 6
Right, like the Sharks, who were on the winning side of the two of the biggest ripoffs ever. You know, where they acquired a former #1 draft pick and a former #3 draft pick. Tell me, how many other trades that lopsided have occurred in the last 5 years? 10 years? Not many, I'd say. Maybe none.

That right there, that's been explained not only on the Ranger forum, but also on the main board more times than any human can possibly remember. In fact, every single "point" you made in this paragraph has been refuted time after time after time. Perhaps instead of wasting people's time and hijacking the thread with this nonsense, you could, for once, show some decency and use the 'search' function. That way, you can see how it is nearly impossible to be one of the top teams in this league consistently without, one way or another (and history shows quite clearly that there is one way that is far likelier to yield this result than any other) , having one (or in most cases, mupltiple) top 3 draft pick on the roster. And if you still disagree with that, then you can take up that argument in those threads. You're just not worth the time that it would take to play through that weak argument again.
NUMBER 1 See the part I bolded in there? Here let me copy and paste:
"maybe not a 7th steal like you're saying but you're completely leaving out steals in earlier rounds or late 1sts and that's important to note.

You didn't mention steals you just said no steals from the 7th based on being Euro I agreed that you said this but expanded on this idea because it leaves out some important things. This was all part of a much LARGER point about why I feel strongly you don't have to tank. You don't have to agree with me but if you continue to talk as if your method is the only one I will take the time to calmly explain the other side of the coin which is all I did.
Like i said and like what YOU quoted here I said it was important to note and that you didn't.

NUMBER 2 Like I said you said no more late steals but so what? There are still earlier round steals and will continue to be. you left that out and didn't acknowledge it at all so i pointed out that you left it out that's all. To be short this is me saying :"hey c'mon that's not fair what you're saying you're leaving out this..." That's all it is.

You seem to keep jumping all over the place there. How many threads have been closed because of any debate involving me...none. Like I said it's the mods job if I'm so irrelevant or insulting I would have my psot removed. But I'm not saying anything insulting or critical of you whereas you are actually being very critical and insulting towards me. Says a lot.
NUMBER 3
You needed clarification. I provided. No need to complain...besides if what you said here...well then why respond?

NUMBER4
The mods would remove it if it was so irrelevant. You're talking about tanking has to happen to win...you need that elite guy. I agree you need the elite guy but you can get a steal in any draft in any sport who turns out elite every year except maybe basketball. So I don't agree the tank is the be all end all. I'm sorry you get so upset when people disagree with you but damn man "perverting" what you wrote? I think you are taking this stuff way too personal.

Roughly how many 1st rounders every year become elite? 80+ guys? after the first 2picks prob 1 per year. Some years 2 guys and then there's always some 2nd, 3rd ,etc rounder who makes it big. Just saying there are other ways besides tanking to get that elite guy. You said we NEED to tank. SO I did not pervert anything I addressed what you said and what you left out whether you left it out conveniently or not I dunno and don't care.

Also as many are saying here Sather sucks. That can't be overstated enough.

NUMBER 5
Buuuut you completely failed to prove that...In fact what you quoted to make your point had the counter to your "proof" right in it...

NUMBER 6
I could argue that Gabs a former what 3rd overall? Staal is an All Star Girardi is a first pairing undrafted FA, MZA could be a 1st, 2nd pairing 50 pt undrafted FA. McD plus the panning out of several late rounders (step, Sauer, Cally, AA)of our own puts us in that same position. ESPECIALLY if they continue to improve. Which they can, even you can't deny that out of hand of course they could improve but of course they could also bust or go backwards like MDZ has done. but I've never guaranteed they work out. Still I'm presenting both sides there and if I hypotehtically didn't then point it out and I'd say "true my bad I still think so-and so but you have a valid point there". So all I'm saying is mix of signings, some trades, panning out of what seems like an inordinate amount of picks so the CHANCE is there. Plus if we get B.R. icing on the cake to me. I'm sorry but i have to ask did I just say the Sharks? Thought I mentioned quite a few teams there...To leave those teams out without even addressing them says a lot. Again though if you don't want to talk I suggest not to post back. i have a life I don't go trolling and pouring through the threads on the off-chance they can disprove what i'm saying or approve what I'm saying. I gather my own opinions with my own observation and if you say something here that is right I will accept that. But you don't in this case not b/c any1 is wrong but b/c these are two opinions backed by nothing but either hopefuly observation, patterns, and circumstance. You and I are both speculating here.

Sting you're really misunderstanding what you're reading for whatever reason to the point where like with number1 you're saying I am lying or coloring words when the proof that i am not was in the same exact paragraph. maybe I'm writing too much but I'm trying to be fair and address the multitude of points you took the time to bring up. At this point clearly you have a fair valid and logical point but based on the recent history and setup of the time I have toa rgue that there is another fair, logical and valid point besides your own. I'll even say you're position is the more evidence based one so i'd say i honestly feel this team has a 40% shot in the next 5 years. Less than 50% but two three years ago i woulda said 15%. Due to Staal, AA, Girardi, Sauer, Cally, Dubs, hank, McD, continual development as well as Boyle, prust, getting Gabs AND the showing by teams like mon, philly, Chicago, I have upgraded that. I never expected Sauer and Girardi to be this good, to have a top 3 netminder in the league to pick up a 80pt 40 g guy in FA. I never expected Sauer and McD to come up and play like this. A lot of stuff more than I what I expected 2-3 years ago has happenned with the potential for more from guys like hagelin, Werek, Kreider, Grachev, Kundratek, Thomas, McI, and fasth. And again I'm only argueing that the team with this trajectory can become a perennial contender not a guaranteed cup winner. I feel we'll win a division or two make it to the finals once. I never argue for more or less than that.


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Old
02-10-2011, 01:23 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
Nowhere did I say "You said there will never be a parise again".
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...7&postcount=35

Quote:
Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
So you're saying there will never be a Parise again?
I can't imagine that anyone is reading this complete utter waste of time, but if anyone is, please, try and find the same amusement in this as I am. At how completely and utterly full of **** this person is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
NUMBER 1 See the part I bolded in there? Here let me copy and paste:
"maybe not a 7th steal like you're saying but you're completely leaving out steals in earlier rounds or late 1sts and that's important to note.
I'm not leaving anything out. That wasn't the point being discussed. The other poster mentioned getting lucky, and brought up Zetterberg as an example. That's the example I responded to. If he'd brought up Parise, I would have responded to that example by directing him to look at the league leaders in points every year over the last 5 years and to notice what percentage of those players were drafted in the lottery, and what percentage weren't. But that isn't the example he brought up, so why would I have responded in that manner?

I'm not a mindreader, but apparently, you think you are.

Quote:
I asked if there are no more steals then that means no more parise's because you utterly failed to mention steals that are still going to be there. I don't expect you or anyone to always remember to include both sides of every story but when someone corrects you instead of getting defensive and read it like an attack why not just read it for what it is. me saying :"hey c'mon that's not fair what you're saying you're leaving out this..." That's all it is.
You haven't corrected me about anything. You just made an assumption, and an incorrect one at that. You assumed that I left out early round steals. But early round steals weren't being discussed. I didn't leave out anything. If you want to bring up early round steals as a subsequent point, that's fine. But don't accuse me of leaving them out of a discussion they were never a part of to begin with.

Quote:
The mods would remove it if it was so irrelevant. You're talking about tanking has to happen to win...you need that elite guy. I agree you need the elite guy but you can get a steal in any draft in any sport who turns out elite every year except maybe basketball. So I don't agree the tank is the be all end all. I'm sorry you get so upset when people disagree with you but damn man "perverting" what you wrote? I think you are taking this stuff way too personal.
And I think you're a tremendous liar who puts words in my mouth every single time you quote my posts. I could care less when people disagree with me. I love disagreement. Sometimes I argue points that contradict my own beliefs just to try and get an interesting dialogue going. PLENTY of people here disagree with me, including a couple who I think have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. But you know what, at least those people don't put words in my mouth. You're not disagreeing with my beliefs, because you aren't arguing my beliefs. You're arguing what you think my beliefs are. It's disturbing how things you absorb get completely lost in translation in your mind.

Quote:
You needed clarification. I provided. No need to complain...besides if what you said here...well then why respond?
Don't worry, this is my last response, because I'm done. I've just never seen someone on a message board who lies through their teeth so blatantly and goes to such great lengths simply to avoid debating what another poster actually says. I've never seen someone so determined to kill threads. You're no better than JOrts.

EDIT: Also, I've been a poster here for nearly 5 years. In that span, only two people have ever spent me private messages to try and argue with me. One of them was a bigot who leveed personal attacks against me and my ethnic background who has since reverted and actually numerous times tried to pass off my opinions from those arguments as his own. The other is you. I'm not sure which one offends me more. At least the former wasn't a liar. Please stop sending me private messages, I have absolutely no interest in conducting any sort of private discussion with you. You're one of the most disrespectful people I've ever encountered on a message board, and in my time, I've been a member of quite a few. Anyone here can say what they wish about me, but I don't attack anyone personally (lest they attack me first) and I don't lie or make accusations.

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Old
02-10-2011, 01:46 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post


This discussion starts and ends here.

Lack of a legitimate number one center? Slats tried and failed with Gomez and Drury. Could have had Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler or Zajac, but instead had Jessiman and Korpikoski.

Lack of PP stars? Redden, Wade. Kotalik, Ales. Among others. We've tried to address this and failed.

Ron Low. Bryan Trottier. Awful coaching hires.

My head nearly exploded when we had the Sather Appreciation Thread earlier this year. As long as the guy is running the franchise, we're going to continue to swing and miss.
Exactly. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain!!!

And let's not forget that the fool hired himself as manager and failed at that too.


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Old
02-10-2011, 03:25 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...7&postcount=35

I'm not leaving anything out. That wasn't the point being discussed. The other poster mentioned getting lucky, and brought up Zetterberg as an example. That's the example I responded to. If he'd brought up Parise, I would have responded to that example by directing him to look at the league leaders in points every year over the last 5 years and to notice what percentage of those players were drafted in the lottery, and what percentage weren't. But that isn't the example he brought up, so why would I have responded in that manner?

I did not simply say "You're saying there will never be a Parise again" If I spelled it out perfectly and even more implicitly it would be "You made no mention of the fact that though there may not be a zetterberg in the 7th round there will definitely be more Parise's. To mention that is important to your point about needing to get elite talent and tanking.
You haven't corrected me about anything. You just made an assumption, and an incorrect one at that. You assumed that I left out early round steals. But early round steals weren't being discussed. I didn't leave out anything. If you want to bring up early round steals as a subsequent point, that's fine. But don't accuse me of leaving them out of a discussion they were never a part of to begin with.
I only responded to points that were on topic. All other nonsense I responded to you in PM. In the interest of sparing the board yes I PM'd you about the irrelevant stuff. If the mods choose to leave it up then fine but the stuff about your 5 years is irrelevant to me. Nowhere in this thread did I insult or attack you and I calmly took the time to explain everything you misread in as non insulting and simple a way as I could think of. By all means if my PM is anything horrible or harassing put it up or send it to a mod but it's not. Just me addressing the concerns that you had which weren't relevant to this thread. I have never derailed a thread like you are accussing me of so I feel this was a logical step to take to avoid doing that.

But I didn't assume you left out anything about earlier steals...you didn't put anything in about earlier round steals so you DID leave it out. You felt it's not relevant to your response to that poster but you do talk about needing to tank to get the elite player and I responded to all of what you wrote including that. Perhaps when you initially wrote it you didn't mean for those points to be connected but to bring up the tank to get an elite player leads to me saying "Hey wait what about the steals that are there every single year?" And I referred to it as catching lightning in a bottle so i'm not saying the Rangers can do it but if you look at my response NUMBER 6 I do talk about why I feel good while simultaneously acknowledging you also have a valid logical arguement too. I just don't know how to be much more graceful and respectful of your position than that.

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02-10-2011, 09:01 PM
  #83
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Check the name plate on the door of the Rangers President and GM for the answer.

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Old
02-11-2011, 04:47 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
Exactly. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain!!!
+1 for answering with a Hollywood classic.

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02-11-2011, 05:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Its not that i dont think hes putting an honest effort in... I know that he wants to succeed here- its just that I think he's stubborn, old-fashioned and does more reacting than actually thinking things through completely. . And hes not paying nearly enough attention to the details IMO, like simple communication or scouting. I think that all manifests itself into issues like the one i pointed out.

Its really a philosophical difference in the approach of General Managing that i have a really big problem with, his close-door policy with the media and fans, and his complete ignorance of player evaluation. Like you mentioned, so many of his faults can be summarized when you look that Redden deal.
I actually think the problem is that he's soooo out of touch with what the league has become. He's one of the good old boys from a time long forgotten. He doesn't care as much about winning as he does about being a cigar smoking nhl bigwig that get to buy and sell peoples lives.
If winning was his 1st priority I'd be shocked by numerous moves this team has made. He has an absent owner that let hm play hockey god. He gets to collect his fat paycheck, smoke his stoagies and bark at people on the phone, he thinks he's a mafia boss, he has no idea what an honest days work is anymore...

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Old
02-11-2011, 08:07 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
I actually think the problem is that he's soooo out of touch with what the league has become. He's one of the good old boys from a time long forgotten. He doesn't care as much about winning as he does about being a cigar smoking nhl bigwig that get to buy and sell peoples lives.
If winning was his 1st priority I'd be shocked by numerous moves this team has made. He has an absent owner that let hm play hockey god. He gets to collect his fat paycheck, smoke his stoagies and bark at people on the phone, he thinks he's a mafia boss, he has no idea what an honest days work is anymore...
I think you underestimate how much The Wizard wants to win. He was considered a hockey god in the 1980s when he was riding on the fact that he "found" Gretzsky, Messier, et al and delivered 4 Stanley Cups. He cemented that reputation when his team managed to win another Stanley Cup after TGO left. He desparately wants to win one more cup before he retires. All the wheeling and dealing he's done is in the vain attempt to somehow get back to the promised land. The Dolans may only care about filling MSG 44 times a year and then feasting on the playoff revenue, but the Jackass they hired very much wants to win. He tried to buy championship before the lockout and pretty much tried to do it after Jagr's team suprised everyone by playing so well after the lockout, but signed the wrong players. Now, he's handcuffed and trying to do what he should have started to do nearly 11 years ago. But, the game has passed him by. I suspect most people in hockey know that, but the person signing his checks doesn't and is willing to let him keep trying for as long as he wants to.

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02-11-2011, 08:08 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
+1 for answering with a Hollywood classic.
Come on dedalus, I've only been calling him that since this board started!

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02-11-2011, 10:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
I think you underestimate how much The Wizard wants to win. He was considered a hockey god in the 1980s when he was riding on the fact that he "found" Gretzsky, Messier, et al and delivered 4 Stanley Cups. He cemented that reputation when his team managed to win another Stanley Cup after TGO left. He desparately wants to win one more cup before he retires. All the wheeling and dealing he's done is in the vain attempt to somehow get back to the promised land. The Dolans may only care about filling MSG 44 times a year and then feasting on the playoff revenue, but the Jackass they hired very much wants to win. He tried to buy championship before the lockout and pretty much tried to do it after Jagr's team suprised everyone by playing so well after the lockout, but signed the wrong players. Now, he's handcuffed and trying to do what he should have started to do nearly 11 years ago. But, the game has passed him by. I suspect most people in hockey know that, but the person signing his checks doesn't and is willing to let him keep trying for as long as he wants to.
He got lucky. It happens.

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02-12-2011, 06:49 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post


This discussion starts and ends here.

Lack of a legitimate number one center? Slats tried and failed with Gomez and Drury. Could have had Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler or Zajac, but instead had Jessiman and Korpikoski.

Lack of PP stars? Redden, Wade. Kotalik, Ales. Among others. We've tried to address this and failed.

Ron Low. Bryan Trottier. Awful coaching hires.

My head nearly exploded when we had the Sather Appreciation Thread earlier this year. As long as the guy is running the franchise, we're going to continue to swing and miss.
This sums it up. Minimum 1 bad signing a year.

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02-12-2011, 08:32 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
Come on dedalus, I've only been calling him that since this board started!
Then I demand credit for finally getting around to congratulating you on it.

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Old
02-12-2011, 07:23 PM
  #91
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One of the problems we have this year is we lose a lot of games in regulation. Why can't we get it into overtime and at least get one point?

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Old
02-12-2011, 08:30 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
One of the problems we have this year is we lose a lot of games in regulation. Why can't we get it into overtime and at least get one point?
Maybe the team isn't good enough.

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02-12-2011, 08:34 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Banger View Post
He got lucky. It happens.
Well then, either Ranger fans will have to hope lightening strikes twice or be willing to wait another 54 years for a Stanley Cup.

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02-12-2011, 08:39 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
Then I demand credit for finally getting around to congratulating you on it.
I'll get around to it in a couple of years...

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02-13-2011, 08:06 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
I think you underestimate how much The Wizard wants to win. He was considered a hockey god in the 1980s when he was riding on the fact that he "found" Gretzsky, Messier, et al and delivered 4 Stanley Cups. He cemented that reputation when his team managed to win another Stanley Cup after TGO left. He desparately wants to win one more cup before he retires. All the wheeling and dealing he's done is in the vain attempt to somehow get back to the promised land. The Dolans may only care about filling MSG 44 times a year and then feasting on the playoff revenue, but the Jackass they hired very much wants to win. He tried to buy championship before the lockout and pretty much tried to do it after Jagr's team suprised everyone by playing so well after the lockout, but signed the wrong players. Now, he's handcuffed and trying to do what he should have started to do nearly 11 years ago. But, the game has passed him by. I suspect most people in hockey know that, but the person signing his checks doesn't and is willing to let him keep trying for as long as he wants to.
it certainly seems like this is true finally but even though as I'm optimistic as anyone I'm still not convinced he's doing what he ought to have done until it's done. I still feel like he's waiting for cap room and then BAM the next kotalik and higgins are coming in. or the next Drury. Though I am sooo looking forward to the teams future and think we all should be I think it's still likely there's a big Sather screw up on the horizon. Right now I think it's almost a coin flip that we win a division and make it to the finals in the next5 years. I'd say it's more like 85 % the Pens make it. So we still have a ways to go and it's def tough to imagine with Sather.

It's appropriate that a thread with this title eventually got to and ends with Sather sucks

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02-13-2011, 10:57 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
This team can't score, has a bantam-level powerplay, and has no big bodies to keep the opponent out from in front. These are the exact same problems the Rangers have had every year, since I'm knee-high to Theo Fleury. Why aren't they ever addressed?
The Rangers don't have the same problems year after year. You just haven't been around very long. Between Richter and Lunqvist the Rangers didn't have a goalie. There were years when the Rangers were a high scoring team and had no defense. There were more years when the Rangers had plenty of talent but no one tried. The Rangers have had various problems at various times and this is a pretty ridiculous premise.

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02-13-2011, 08:32 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The Rangers don't have the same problems year after year. You just haven't been around very long. Between Richter and Lunqvist the Rangers didn't have a goalie. There were years when the Rangers were a high scoring team and had no defense. There were more years when the Rangers had plenty of talent but no one tried. The Rangers have had various problems at various times and this is a pretty ridiculous premise.
The end result is still the same. And the same person has been running the franchase for nearly 11 years.

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02-13-2011, 09:33 PM
  #98
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The end result is still the same. And the same person has been running the franchase for nearly 11 years.
And this was going on prior to Sather.

Neil Smith's teams after the Cup were generally failures, as he traded away all the youth for long-shots at repeating '94. In effect, Sather was completely handcuffed early in his tenure as he had nobody in the system and few picks to try to build with. That's not to say Sather isn't to blame, but let's be a little honest about the WHOLE history.

Before that, Espo did the same. Craig Patrick before him.

This ISN'T just a Sather thing. It's been a RANGER thing.

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02-14-2011, 08:31 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by NCRanger View Post
And this was going on prior to Sather.

Neil Smith's teams after the Cup were generally failures, as he traded away all the youth for long-shots at repeating '94. In effect, Sather was completely handcuffed early in his tenure as he had nobody in the system and few picks to try to build with. That's not to say Sather isn't to blame, but let's be a little honest about the WHOLE history.

Before that, Espo did the same. Craig Patrick before him.

This ISN'T just a Sather thing. It's been a RANGER thing.
You're completely discounting the fact the Neil Smith actually brought the Stanley Cup here. If Sather had a Ranger Stanley Cup on his resume people would be much more tolerant of him. But the fact is, Sather has been here 11 years and has two playoff series wins to show for it.

Smith proved he could build a winner in New York. Sather has not proven anything.

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Old
02-19-2011, 07:23 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
Lack of Skill

Team simply has not been able to draft Elite level scoring. Maybe Cherry would have been that, but who knows.

Staal looks like he could get there on the blueline and of course Henrik, but none of our forwards, traditional scorers are elite skilled players.

I'm not bashing the draft. Its been MUCH better and these guys are decent good hard working... non elite players.

All the contenders have several homegrown Elite players. Crosby/Malkin, Brahvechkin/Backstrom, Carter/Richards, Dats/Zetterberg, Towes/Kane, Stamkos/St Louis (don't laugh TB is capable of messing teams up in the playoffs)

Rangers just have not drafted the Elite scorer, and its a hard role to fill ufa. Gabby is one guy, even when he's hot it's not enough.

All that said.... maybe Stepan develops into a dominant 1st line C. Maybe MZA develops into something really special. Thats what its going to take to make this team a contender. Its very hard today to build a contender UFA style
Agree with most of this, especially bold^.
Take an face value this was thread was not suggested as a means for witching and moaning, but as an effort to compile constructive suggestions/observations.

Timing is another factor.
NYR almost had it one year in early 70s.
Bobby Orr had 2 goals.
The replay showed one to one side the other to the other.
The goalie, Villemure, could not be faulted in either case.
In the first instance, he left very little room; in the second even less. This was so much so that on the replay, Orr seemed to make the puck stand sideways as it was shot.
You can't make this stuff up.

Sometimes its just not your year.
Orr was the only NHL guy who so dominated, singlehandedly, a la Jordan in the NBA.

But the rest of it is the premium on scoring.
The rink remains the same.

Players are faster, stronger... but so are reflexes.
The good G often beats the good Fs.

Elite exceptions to the rule, of course...

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