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Versteeg for Cody Hodgson

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Old
02-12-2011, 10:07 PM
  #76
mstad101
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Originally Posted by tokenmetalhead View Post
Hodgson is NOT A TOP PROSPECT ANYMORE. The guy is putting up MEDIOCRE numbers in the AHL. Sure he may find his game down the road but the Hodgson in junior and WJC's is not the Hodgson you see this season. You are probably looking at a Daniel Cleary at this point (highly regarded prospect who flopped early on, and didn't improve into top-9 forward status until later in his career).

Toronto has Versteeg, a key contributor to the Blackhawks' deadly 3rd line on the team that won the Cup... last season. As I recall, that 3rd line was a HUGE reason why they went as far as they did. And Versteeg has improved his offensive numbers this season and gets played in all situations (for those defending or overblowing Hodgson's two-way game).

I would agree that Hodgson's ceiling is higher than Versteeg's, but you are a blind homering Canucks fan if you can't admit Hodgson's realistic ceiling is probably around what Versteeg is doing right now. Maybe Hodsgon scores a few more goals and a few less assists, that's it though.
Yeah because missing a full year of skating doesn't screw with your development.
Comeon man, see the whole aspect of everything, he missed time, n has struggled with consistency as a Rookie pro hockey player.
But during his time in the NHL, he was impressive in 9 mins a night. Scored a nice goal, n did well setting another up. Obviously not a 4th line guy. But brings leadership n offensive capabilities to the table.

In reality, we move Hodgson in a package for a #1st line caliber player to play with Kesler.

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02-12-2011, 10:07 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BrianA View Post
token,
I agree with everything said except Hodgson had and will regain #1 centre talent.It was injuries and Canuck depth that set him back,not attitude or lack of skill.
He is good kid who will regain his form.
He would definitely have to regain some form to become a decent NHLer at this point. But how much form is he going to regain? The last two years have swayed my opinion of him (I used to think he would really be something, myself).

I am seeing him as a 50-60 point player TOPS right now, with likely 45-55 point regularity in his prime and high bust potential. Also might take him a few more years just to get back there. He has had injuries early in his career and has a perceived attitude problem regarding not getting a chance in Vancouver. He is still a good prospect with high boom/bust potential, but no one can deny his transition to the pro level has been much worse than what people hoped for.

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02-12-2011, 10:11 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
Yeah because missing a full year of skating doesn't screw with your development.
Comeon man, see the whole aspect of everything, he missed time, n has struggled with consistency as a Rookie pro hockey player.
But during his time in the NHL, he was impressive in 9 mins a night. Scored a nice goal, n did well setting another up. Obviously not a 4th line guy. But brings leadership n offensive capabilities to the table.

In reality, we move Hodgson in a package for a #1st line caliber player to play with Kesler.
Of course he would not do well as a 4th liner, players of his ilk rarely do. But I'm really not seeing 1st line potential with him anymore. I suppose things can change and I know he is better than he has played this year, but you can't discount the season he's having either. It also means that he is further away from the NHL than other top prospects.

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02-13-2011, 12:24 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by tokenmetalhead View Post
Of course he would not do well as a 4th liner, players of his ilk rarely do. But I'm really not seeing 1st line potential with him anymore. I suppose things can change and I know he is better than he has played this year, but you can't discount the season he's having either. It also means that he is further away from the NHL than other top prospects.
And how many people were seeing future Art Ross and Hart trophies for Hank Sedin in 2001?

As has been said about a billion times, the Canucks can afford to take their time waiting for Hodgson to develop. He got his cup of coffee with the big team, now he's back down on the farm to get ice time. It's not like Versteeg is the only guy on the planet the Canucks could trade for here.

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02-13-2011, 12:51 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by tokenmetalhead View Post
He would definitely have to regain some form to become a decent NHLer at this point. But how much form is he going to regain? The last two years have swayed my opinion of him (I used to think he would really be something, myself).

I am seeing him as a 50-60 point player TOPS right now, with likely 45-55 point regularity in his prime and high bust potential. Also might take him a few more years just to get back there. He has had injuries early in his career and has a perceived attitude problem regarding not getting a chance in Vancouver. He is still a good prospect with high boom/bust potential, but no one can deny his transition to the pro level has been much worse than what people hoped for.
You mean because we're letting him develop slowly?

Here are the list of Vancouver skaters that have developed slowly under Vancouver's system:

Daniel/Henrik Sedin - didn't break out until 2005/06 (when they were 25/26); played in 4 NHL seasons before reaching 70+; first NHL games came at 20.

Ryan Kesler - didn't break out until 2008/09 (when he was 24/25), played 111 games in the AHL; first NHL games at 19.

Alexandre Burrows - didn't break out until 2008/09 (when he was 27/28), played 241 games in the AHL/ECHL; first NHL games at 24.

Jannik Hansen - having his first full year on the Canucks without having played in Manitoba (he is 24 now), played 129 games in the AHL; first NHL games at 21.

Mason Raymond - broke out his second year at 24 years old, played 31 games in the AHL; first NHL games at 23.

Kevin Bieksa - broke out in 06 when he was 25, played 108 games in the AHL; first NHL games at 24.

Alex Edler - broke out in 08/09 when he was 22, played 49 games in the AHL; first NHL games at 20.

Corey Schneider - didn't play in the NHL until he was 22, played 136 AHL games.

Most of the prominent players developed Canucks have played in the AHL for a significant chunk of time and 4/9 saw action before the age of 22. Hodgson played his first NHL games as a 20 year old. The Canucks have zero worries.

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02-13-2011, 01:29 AM
  #81
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02-13-2011, 01:51 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by AntonRodin View Post
Raymond for Kadri
Win.

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02-13-2011, 02:28 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by tokenmetalhead View Post
Of course he would not do well as a 4th liner, players of his ilk rarely do. But I'm really not seeing 1st line potential with him anymore. I suppose things can change and I know he is better than he has played this year, but you can't discount the season he's having either. It also means that he is further away from the NHL than other top prospects.
But see, despite the fact we have depth, and a very nice chance at winning this year. Cody is in the best environment to succeed long term.
If we keep him around, he learns to win at every level, n comes in n succeeds as a player in the NHL.
Just because he's a top prospect doesn't mean he has to make the jump his first year as a pro.

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02-13-2011, 03:19 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by tokenmetalhead View Post
I absolutely agree with your post here. I definitely agree that Vancouver does NOT need Versteeg. My point is people over-rate Hodgson, I think there are many people who still think he's gonna be a 35+ goal, 70+ point 1st line centre.

I don't even know what Vancouver really "needs" anyways, this year they are one of the best teams in the NHL and are very strong at pretty much every position possible. Maybe they could use a slightly better goalie to ensure they win every year but who doesn't? Their forwards and defence are great-to-awesome. They really shouldn't be doing anything with their roster, especially anything involving acquiring another tweener 2nd/3rd liner.
? Really ?

I know it's off topic, but Luongo doesn't have a regulation loss in ... months.

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02-13-2011, 03:55 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Canuckle View Post
Win.
I don like to get involved in threads like these but you would have to be stupid to trade Hodgson for Kadri. Im sorry but I just dont see anything I like in Kadri as a NHL player. Hodgson has had some injuries that have slowed his development down(and keep in mind he is on the top team int he entire league, TOP TEAM IN THE LEAGUE) but he is player I see as being a top talent in this league. I have watched him play enough instead of looking at the stats to see he has vision and talents combined that will make him a very good player in this league(barring more significant injuries). Kadri on the other hand not so match, I just dont see anything that I think will make him a good NHL player. And I say all this with complete honesty. Sorry.

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02-13-2011, 04:15 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by alesmarv View Post
I don like to get involved in threads like these but you would have to be stupid to trade Hodgson for Kadri. Im sorry but I just dont see anything I like in Kadri as a NHL player. Hodgson has had some injuries that have slowed his development down(and keep in mind he is on the top team int he entire league, TOP TEAM IN THE LEAGUE) but he is player I see as being a top talent in this league. I have watched him play enough instead of looking at the stats to see he has vision and talents combined that will make him a very good player in this league(barring more significant injuries). Kadri on the other hand not so match, I just dont see anything that I think will make him a good NHL player. And I say all this with complete honesty. Sorry.
dude, you just waisted a lot of time...
Raymond for kadri

Win


get it?

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02-13-2011, 04:17 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by tokenmetalhead View Post
Hodgson is NOT A TOP PROSPECT ANYMORE. The guy is putting up MEDIOCRE numbers in the AHL. Sure he may find his game down the road but the Hodgson in junior and WJC's is not the Hodgson you see this season. You are probably looking at a Daniel Cleary at this point (highly regarded prospect who flopped early on, and didn't improve into top-9 forward status until later in his career).

Toronto has Versteeg, a key contributor to the Blackhawks' deadly 3rd line on the team that won the Cup... last season. As I recall, that 3rd line was a HUGE reason why they went as far as they did. And Versteeg has improved his offensive numbers this season and gets played in all situations (for those defending or overblowing Hodgson's two-way game).

I would agree that Hodgson's ceiling is higher than Versteeg's, but you are a blind homering Canucks fan if you can't admit Hodgson's realistic ceiling is probably around what Versteeg is doing right now. Maybe Hodsgon scores a few more goals and a few less assists, that's it though.
I am so, so glad that the canucks don't employ management/scouts who think this way.

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02-13-2011, 04:24 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Bgav View Post
dude, you just waisted a lot of time...
Raymond for kadri

Win


get it?
Raymond has lots of potential is a more complete player but is lacking hockey sense, At this point and his age and coming up contracts if salary cap became a issue(and the bonus cushion was in effect) I would gladly take a shot at Kadri. I might not see much potential in him that I like but he still has potential and is young. That counts for something.

Edit: I get it and thats why I will stay well clear of the trade threads...they suck me in

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02-13-2011, 07:17 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by NFITO View Post
$2-2.5mill.

The Canucks already have 3 of them who are all either better than, or equal to Versteeg in any case, with Burrows, Raymond and Samuelsson.

You don't want Versteeg in a 3rd line role at that salary... and it doesn't make much sense to have one of the above, at their salaries, in a 3rd line role either.

The Canucks don't need Versteeg, because he doesn't really upgrade any of the current top-6 wingers the team has (Daniel, Burrows, Raymond, Samuelsson), and even if you argue he does, is whatever upgrade he possibly brings worth your organization's top prospect?

I am curious though - how many Leafs fans, even if their team was a contender right now, would even consider a Raymond for Kadri swap? The values are pretty much equal here.
Most in hockey would trade their top prospect for a 24 year old who can help push them over the top this season.....if you have a chance to win now, you go for it. If you dont get how important role players are, they clearly you missed your team getting out matched the last 2 years.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Versteeg would be a huge upgrade over Hansen on the 3rd line and couple possibly provide that depth scoring the team is lacking.

Yes, Hodgson is a top prospect.....one who will never see his day in Vancouver. With Henrik and Kesler up the middle, Hodgson was drafted as the best player available and can now be used to address another position.....seeing centre and goal are the 2 positions set for the next 5 years at least.

Planning on keeping him on the Moose till hes 25......that should do wonders for his value and confidence

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02-13-2011, 07:18 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BrianA View Post
Canucks want grit and play-off experience.Versteeg offers plenty of both at an affordable price.He is young with many years ahead of him

Leafs need a young centre with a huge upside.Hodgson has battled injury and the Canuck depth at centre but he is only 20.
That would be a disaster move by the Canucks.

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02-13-2011, 09:58 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Most in hockey would trade their top prospect for a 24 year old who can help push them over the top this season.....if you have a chance to win now, you go for it. If you dont get how important role players are, they clearly you missed your team getting out matched the last 2 years.

Correct me if Im wrong, but Versteeg would be a huge upgrade over Hansen on the 3rd line and couple possibly provide that depth scoring the team is lacking.

Yes, Hodgson is a top prospect.....one who will never see his day in Vancouver. With Henrik and Kesler up the middle, Hodgson was drafted as the best player available and can now be used to address another position.....seeing centre and goal are the 2 positions set for the next 5 years at least.

Planning on keeping him on the Moose till hes 25......that should do wonders for his value and confidence
1) Versteeg is absolutely worthless on a 3rd line of a team that is playing at (actually over) the salary cap. He does not fit at $3mill on this team's 3rd line. It would screw the team's salary cap and force them to move other players. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Do they not have a grasp of the salary cap?

2) No one said that Hodgson would be kept on the Moose till 25. Yet another poster that likes to exaggerate his point in order to sell it.

3) Hodgson isn't confined to play the center position. Just like Kesler isn't confined to that position. Kesler has already proven he can succeed on the wing... Hodgson has also played on the wing in his most recent NHL game. If Hodgson is ready to contribute to a top-6 position, there is no reason why he can't be put in a top-6 position. Hell, it could even allow the Canucks to permanently put Kesler next to the Sedins, were he's shown he can excel on the PP. If he no longer has to carry that 2nd line (again, if Hodgson proves ready), then you have a dynamic top line with Kesler playing next to the Sedins - basically a much better version of Burrows there. Again, he plays there regularly on the PP, and it's arguably the top PP unit in the league.

4) This is not a team that is desperate to put all their eggs in one basket right now. This is not like the Hawks last year, where they had key players hitting new contracts and had to tear up the team to win now. The Canucks core is locked up for years, and they don't have any ELCs that are getting big raises in coming years that will force them to gut their depth to accommodate. There is no reason to move your organization's top prospect to "go for it now" ... this team can go for it now while keeping that prospect... and they can go for it again next year, and the year after that, and the year after that. Their core is locked up, and still in the early side of their prime years.

5) Why is it so hard for people to understand that the Canucks don't need Versteeg? This is the #2 scoring team in the entire league... they are the #4 defensive team in the league. Where does Versteeg actually help? What the Canucks need - if they're going to send a top prospect out of town - is to address their actual weaknesses. Does Versteeg bring a physical presence that is lacking in the team's top-6? Is he cap friendly that he can plug into the bottom-6 and provide secondary scoring at a low price that fits a team that is already operating over the cap?

No... he's a smallish, overpaid 3rd liner who's contract is tied up through next season, and would further hand-cuff the Canucks ability to ice the deepest team possible next season.

Versteeg is not an answer in Vancouver. You'd have to insane to deal your organization's top prospect for a player that isn't the answer and doesn't address your club's needs - only adds to their strengths while hurting them cap-wise.

edit: my bad.. the Canucks now have the #1 GF/G and #1 GA/G team in the league.


Last edited by NFITO: 02-13-2011 at 10:18 AM.
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Old
02-13-2011, 11:23 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Most in hockey would trade their top prospect for a 24 year old who can help push them over the top this season.....if you have a chance to win now, you go for it. If you dont get how important role players are, they clearly you missed your team getting out matched the last 2 years.
Yeah I'm sure that Versteeg is the guy to push the Canucks over the top. Maybe over the top of the salary cap but that is about it.

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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Correct me if Im wrong, but Versteeg would be a huge upgrade over Hansen on the 3rd line and couple possibly provide that depth scoring the team is lacking.
So Versteeg is going to replace Hansen? As a top shutdown type player? So how does Versteeg get his points then? On the PP? Nope Hansen doesn't see PP time. Hansen does see a lot PK time as he is tied with Kesler at 2:23 a game, which ranks second among the forwards on the team. So it must be Versteeg is a bigger faster player with a better cap hit.

Ok so now we have sorta established that it isn't going to be Hansen he replaces in the lineup then who? Raymond? Sameulsson? Burrows? Well all three of these guys are scoring at a better clip than Versteeg and doing it in over 3 minutes less a game and and way, way, way less PP time. They also are all signed for $500,000 to a million less per season.

Torres, Tambellini, Glass? Two words. Salary Cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Yes, Hodgson is a top prospect.....one who will never see his day in Vancouver. With Henrik and Kesler up the middle, Hodgson was drafted as the best player available and can now be used to address another position.....seeing centre and goal are the 2 positions set for the next 5 years at least.

Planning on keeping him on the Moose till hes 25......that should do wonders for his value and confidence
So let me get this straight, He won't develop so trade him for a piece that doesn't make the team better just more expensive.

I'm sure that Gillis and the coach will find a spot for a good player in the top nine. On the Canucks the ninth forward in ice time a game is still getting almost 13 minutes a game. Only three Canuck forwards average over 17 minutes a game, I'm sure you can quess which ones, divvying up the rest depending on the game. My guess is with his contract and potential he will be in the mix next year.

My last point on this whole thing is that really do you see Burke and Gillis ever making a deal?

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Old
02-13-2011, 11:36 AM
  #93
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Your missing the point, the guy i quoted below is trying to rub it in that Edmonton has young talent and the Leafs dont. He named Omark, Petry and Roy who the Leafs all have comparables too and Hall, MPS and Eberle disregarding the fact that the Leafs have Kadri and Schenn. The point was if he is going to try and mock a team atleast do it well
You do realize that the post you quoted was in response to an unprovoked pot shot at Edmonton from a leafs fan right?

Don't forget to add this years first round selections to the convo,

We add Larsson/Couturier/RNH/Landeskog, how bout you brah?

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02-13-2011, 12:09 PM
  #94
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02-13-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianA View Post
Canucks want grit and play-off experience.Versteeg offers plenty of both at an affordable price.He is young with many years ahead of him

Leafs need a young centre with a huge upside.Hodgson has battled injury and the Canuck depth at centre but he is only 20.
steeger, GRIT those two dont really go in the same sentence together..
hes like 160 traped in a lillte girls body.

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