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Old
02-13-2011, 12:59 AM
  #26
Oilmageddon*
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[QUOTE=Brian Boyle;30878145]You people with you "<>" make me laugh, like it's that much of a simple matter here.

Kulemin and Weiss are both absolutely fantastic players, and both are very good in their own end, let alone being top-notch offensive given their rosters. Kulemin projects to be a 30-30 winger in his prime who is big, strong on the boards, and is good around the net. He's 24. Weiss, on the other hand, is entering his prime as one of the best 1b centers in the league. Speedy, can put up ~60 points, and is also great in his own end. Both are leaders, and both are on great contracts.

So "<" won't be solving anything here. If you insist on using one of those god awful signs, I would say that "=" may suffice.[/QUOTE> > =

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Old
02-13-2011, 12:59 AM
  #27
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So if Kulimen and Weiss are similar in value and Toronto needs a centre why dont we remove montreal from the deal and trade Kulimen+ probably a late pick or prospect for weiss?

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:00 AM
  #28
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Would not trade Kulemin straight up for any asset in either team's system.

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:06 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieRunsValhalla View Post
Weiss > Kulemin not close


That is just stupid. Why is is "not close"? Wanna explain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theneuf33 View Post
So if Kulimen and Weiss are similar in value and Toronto needs a centre why dont we remove montreal from the deal and trade Kulimen+ probably a late pick or prospect for weiss?
Because Kulemin is a big body, and our only effective winger who has both grit and a good scoring touch. He is a horse, and very effective along the boards, down low, and excellent defensively. One of our main needs other than a top 6 center is a winger with size and grit. So as you can tell, creating one whole to fill another one is pointless.

Kulemin is a good all around player, and I personally believe his ceiling his higher than Weiss'.

Leafs aren't looking to move him for the aforementioned reasons.

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:53 AM
  #30
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Comparisons aside, the real question of this thread should be: "Why would any team want Rostislav Olesz and his contract?"

That, alone, makes it a bad trade.

Olesz doesn't get criticized like others with bad contracts in the NHL because he plays in South Florida, but he's easily one of the worst contracts in the league. It's been a nightmare for the Panthers organization.

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:55 AM
  #31
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Old
02-13-2011, 01:57 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonbs View Post
3 way deal: unpredictable toronto, florida and contender montreal

Toronto Gets:
Montreal Conditional 3rd/4th
Rostislav Olesz (3.1)

Florida Gets:
Nikolai Kulemin (2.3)
Montreal 2nd Rnd pick
David Desharnais

Montreal Gets:
Fredrik Sjostrom (.75)
Stephen Weiss (3.1)
Is this supposed to be a joke?

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:59 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple Axel View Post
Stephen Weiss says hello.
Hi Steve, sorry you are still not as good as Kulemin though

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Old
02-13-2011, 07:12 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
No he actually doesn't. Kulemin is the better player who still has potential to pot 30 goals while playing very well defensively. He's an ideal powerforward in the making.
Haha. Kulemin better than Weiss? Get the **** out of here.


Last edited by AwesomePanthers: 02-13-2011 at 07:24 AM.
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Old
02-13-2011, 07:15 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post


That is just stupid. Why is is "not close"? Wanna explain?



Because Kulemin is a big body, and our only effective winger who has both grit and a good scoring touch. He is a horse, and very effective along the boards, down low, and excellent defensively. One of our main needs other than a top 6 center is a winger with size and grit. So as you can tell, creating one whole to fill another one is pointless.

Kulemin is a good all around player, and I personally believe his ceiling his higher than Weiss'.

Leafs aren't looking to move him for the aforementioned reasons.
Weiss is a by far better player. Don't just compare stats. If Weiss had any effective winger on his line he's points would increase drastically.

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Old
02-13-2011, 07:16 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonbs View Post
3 way deal: unpredictable toronto, florida and contender montreal

Toronto Gets:
Montreal Conditional 3rd/4th
Rostislav Olesz (3.1)

Florida Gets:
Nikolai Kulemin (2.3)
Montreal 2nd Rnd pick
David Desharnais

Montreal Gets:
Fredrik Sjostrom (.75)
Stephen Weiss (3.1)
Not nearly enough value for Toronto, too much for Montreal.

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Old
02-13-2011, 08:12 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomePanthers View Post
Weiss is a by far better player. Don't just compare stats. If Weiss had any effective winger on his line he's points would increase drastically.
Kulemin makes others around him better. It's too bad Weiss isn't capable of doing the same.

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Old
02-13-2011, 08:16 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megan Fox View Post
Kulemin makes others around him better. It's too bad Weiss isn't capable of doing the same.
It's not Weiss fault that our forwards can't hit the net. But I'm sure Kulemin has that effect.

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Old
02-13-2011, 11:10 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonbs View Post
3 way deal: unpredictable toronto, florida and contender montreal

Toronto Gets:
Montreal Conditional 3rd/4th
Rostislav Olesz (3.1)

Florida Gets:
Nikolai Kulemin (2.3)
Montreal 2nd Rnd pick
David Desharnais

Montreal Gets:
Fredrik Sjostrom (.75)
Stephen Weiss (3.1)
Why not.....



Toronto

Weiss

Florida

Desharnais
Sjostrom
2nd round pick (Montreal)

Montreal

Kulemin




The original deal kind of doesn't help Montreal or Toronto's needs. I think Weiss would go to Toronto IMO. Toronto is in a better franchise position than Florida at this point. Weiss is from Toronto as well. He would waive to go there IMO.

Toronto needs - #1 center, not a winger.
Montreal needs - Top 6 winger with size and is somewhat consistent. Not a center.
Florida needs - Youth and Picks. Looks like a minor rebuild on an already current rebuild is coming.

Frolik was dealt off for a very small package deal with youth. Didn't get enough. I think Desharnais is going to be a good little fiesty center for years to come. I think he would step right in with Florida and do well. They get a 2nd round pick which is decent as well. They get a PKer as well in Sjostrom to fill out the roster for the remainder of the year.

It just makes sense for Kulemin to come to Montreal and Weiss to Toronto instead of the other way, given the teams needs.

Montreal

Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
Kulemin Gomez Cammalleri
Pouliot Eller Kostitsyn
Moen Halpern Darche

ex. White, Pyatt

Toronto

Lupul Weiss Kessel
MacArthur Grabovski Versteeg
Armstrong Bozak Crabb
Brent Boyce Brown

ex. Rosehill, Orr

Florida

Booth Matthias Skille
Stillman Santorelli Higgins
Dvorak Desharnais Olesz
Bernier Reasoner Sjostrom

ex. Hordichuk, Thomas


Last edited by BigHabs: 02-13-2011 at 11:36 AM.
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Old
02-13-2011, 11:22 AM
  #40
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Why would the Leafs trade Kulemin and Sjostrom and receive Olesz and a conditional pick in return? Just plain dumb

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Old
02-13-2011, 12:02 PM
  #41
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Make all the excuses you want for Weiss, he had Horton and Frolik to play with, both of whom are better than any C that Kulemin played with.

Despite being projected as a surefire number one C for the last decade, Weiss has reached 60 points twice, at the ages of 26 and 27 and is not on pace to do it this year. He also has 8 seasons of NHL experience and has played his whole life on North American ice. He's 5ft11 195. He can skate very well and can make plays decently but lacks much finish, he's also solid in his own end. He has yet to elevate the play of those around him significantly despite playing first-line minutes for most of his career. Weiss will be 28 in April and is on a good contract.

Kulemin will be 24 for the rest of the season before turning 25 in July, and he has only 3 years experience on North American ice. He is huge, 6ft1 225 lbs and extremely difficult to knock off of the puck. In his 3rd season, the first one where he's played the majority of the season in the top 6 (despite still playing second fiddle to Kessel), he's on pace for 31 goals and 29 assists which is that same 60 point figure I mentioned about Weiss. Kulemin is a monster on the boards and clears space for his linemates to operate. The fact of the matter is for the last two seasons, whatever line Kulemin played one was the hot one. He elevates the play of guys like Bozak, Grabovski and MacArthur, players who were all relatively insignificant before playing with him. His skating is excellent, in fact, he actually won the Leafs fastest skater competition against notable burners like Kessel, Lebda, Brown and Sjostrom this year, and Stalberg and Kessel last year. He has a quick release, hits like a truck, can play a shutdown role and playmakes as well is he scores. Where he differs from Weiss is that he has had a consistent development pattern and has naturally progress where as Weiss has been flip-flopping, despite the fact that Kule was supposed to be a nothing 2nd round pick. The 30 goal plateau that he is on pace to reach is something Weiss has never done before. His contract, at 2.35 mill is a steal, and he still has room to elevate his game.

I get the Leafs players are underrated around here, it doesn't help that us Leaf fans ***** about our players and expose their flaws more than anyone else either. No one however has a single complaint about Kulemin, but in the same respect no one appreciates how unique his skill set is. He has
  • Size
  • Speed
  • Shot
  • Playmaking
  • Defensive Prowess
  • Physicality
  • Versatility

I'm telling you right now, if Kulemin was on a team like Vancouver or Philly, he'd get a lot more respect and appreciation. I would not trade him for anything short of a completely ridiculous offer. He his our only forward with size and so many different tools at his disposal. So no, I would not even consider trading him for Weiss, and not even for Booth, or Florida's 1st or Gudbranson. Unless its a #1C or franchise d-man, Kule better stay.

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Old
02-13-2011, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Desharnais is a very intelligent player with tons of work ethic who has gotten better every season he's played in every league. Habs say no until they have a year to evaluate this.

(Not saying I wouldn't give him up for Stephen Weiss, but that value isn't realistic and why would Toronto give up Kulemin? To help out the Habs?)

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Old
02-13-2011, 12:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonbs View Post
3 way deal: unpredictable toronto, florida and contender montreal

Toronto Gets:
Montreal Conditional 3rd/4th
Rostislav Olesz (3.1)

Florida Gets:
Nikolai Kulemin (2.3)
Montreal 2nd Rnd pick
David Desharnais

Montreal Gets:
Fredrik Sjostrom (.75)
Stephen Weiss (3.1)
dumb ass habs fans.. wonder who wrote this...

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Old
02-13-2011, 12:23 PM
  #44
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: laugh:

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:25 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigfinn View Post
dumb ass habs fans.. wonder who wrote this...
Don't be a doosh. You're lucky to have a fanbase with the team you have.

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
Don't be a doosh. You're lucky to have a fanbase with the team you have.
ok....biggest hockey fanbase in the world.

doosh?? ya the guy who posted this one.. thats like me posting leafs habs trade
price + gionta for brett Lebda

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Old
02-13-2011, 02:59 PM
  #47
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Face it. If this deal will ever happen, and Kulemin will be dealt to any of the teams, Florida would have to give:

Gudbrandson
An excellent forward prospect who's Nhl Ready

Or if he goes to Montreal:
Eller
Pacioretty
Defensive prospect who's Nhl Ready.

Because Kulemin is near "Superstar" level if he scores 30 goals a season.

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Old
02-13-2011, 03:11 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
As a Panthers fan, I say hell yeah!
Anything to get rid of Rostislav Olesz.
Wait, we'll give you Kulemin and Sjostrom for him!

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Old
02-13-2011, 03:13 PM
  #49
dubplatepressure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripe4theSnipe View Post
Make all the excuses you want for Weiss, he had Horton and Frolik to play with, both of whom are better than any C that Kulemin played with.

Despite being projected as a surefire number one C for the last decade, Weiss has reached 60 points twice, at the ages of 26 and 27 and is not on pace to do it this year. He also has 8 seasons of NHL experience and has played his whole life on North American ice. He's 5ft11 195. He can skate very well and can make plays decently but lacks much finish, he's also solid in his own end. He has yet to elevate the play of those around him significantly despite playing first-line minutes for most of his career. Weiss will be 28 in April and is on a good contract.

Kulemin will be 24 for the rest of the season before turning 25 in July, and he has only 3 years experience on North American ice. He is huge, 6ft1 225 lbs and extremely difficult to knock off of the puck. In his 3rd season, the first one where he's played the majority of the season in the top 6 (despite still playing second fiddle to Kessel), he's on pace for 31 goals and 29 assists which is that same 60 point figure I mentioned about Weiss. Kulemin is a monster on the boards and clears space for his linemates to operate. The fact of the matter is for the last two seasons, whatever line Kulemin played one was the hot one. He elevates the play of guys like Bozak, Grabovski and MacArthur, players who were all relatively insignificant before playing with him. His skating is excellent, in fact, he actually won the Leafs fastest skater competition against notable burners like Kessel, Lebda, Brown and Sjostrom this year, and Stalberg and Kessel last year. He has a quick release, hits like a truck, can play a shutdown role and playmakes as well is he scores. Where he differs from Weiss is that he has had a consistent development pattern and has naturally progress where as Weiss has been flip-flopping, despite the fact that Kule was supposed to be a nothing 2nd round pick. The 30 goal plateau that he is on pace to reach is something Weiss has never done before. His contract, at 2.35 mill is a steal, and he still has room to elevate his game.

I get the Leafs players are underrated around here, it doesn't help that us Leaf fans ***** about our players and expose their flaws more than anyone else either. No one however has a single complaint about Kulemin, but in the same respect no one appreciates how unique his skill set is. He has
  • Size
  • Speed
  • Shot
  • Playmaking
  • Defensive Prowess
  • Physicality
  • Versatility

I'm telling you right now, if Kulemin was on a team like Vancouver or Philly, he'd get a lot more respect and appreciation. I would not trade him for anything short of a completely ridiculous offer. He his our only forward with size and so many different tools at his disposal. So no, I would not even consider trading him for Weiss, and not even for Booth, or Florida's 1st or Gudbranson. Unless its a #1C or franchise d-man, Kule better stay.
Excellent post, I agree completely.

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Old
02-13-2011, 03:17 PM
  #50
Leafs87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theneuf33 View Post
So if Kulimen and Weiss are similar in value and Toronto needs a centre why dont we remove montreal from the deal and trade Kulimen+ probably a late pick or prospect for weiss?
Because Kulemin's of age and potential. Plus they already have Booth who is right now Kulemin but a step up IMO

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