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Old
02-11-2011, 07:41 PM
  #26
irishlaxburger2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
Victor Hedman??? lol

For Tampa to get DZ, they gotta give a little more than Hedman.

He misses the net just as much as Del Zotto. I like Del Zotto's upside a hell of a lot more than Hedman's.
Decent troll attempt

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Old
02-11-2011, 07:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by irishlaxburger2 View Post
Decent troll attempt
WTF you talking about?

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Old
02-11-2011, 07:45 PM
  #28
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what is the point of this thread ?

NY gets victor hedman ?

seriously ?

tell me again why tampa is going to do this ?

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Old
02-11-2011, 07:46 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
what is the point of this thread ?

NY gets victor hedman ?

seriously ?

tell me again why tampa is going to do this ?
I think Tampa would do it. I might be biased.

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Old
02-11-2011, 07:48 PM
  #30
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did anyone see Brian Engbloms' new hair cut? He looks like he is working at "I got worms".

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Old
02-11-2011, 08:20 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
Victor Hedman??? lol

For Tampa to get DZ, they gotta give a little more than Hedman.

He misses the net just as much as Del Zotto. I like Del Zotto's upside a hell of a lot more than Hedman's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
WTF you talking about?
DZ has more upside than Hedman

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Old
02-11-2011, 08:33 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishlaxburger2 View Post
DZ has more upside than Hedman
I think so. I'm not that big of a fan of Hedman's.

How many Lightning games have you watched?

And that's not being a troll. Just speaking my opinion.

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02-11-2011, 08:39 PM
  #33
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With "upside" I'm talking about potential.

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02-11-2011, 08:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
With "upside" I'm talking about potential.
Yea...I know.

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Old
02-11-2011, 09:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by bmundus View Post
I did not ask who is better, I know Hedman is.
The Rangers are in a spot this year to improve in a few positions but it would mean giving up some prospects. Would you keep what you got and let your prospects pan out or do you try to improve so that we can win a cup in a year or two?
With MDZ and Stamkos being childhood friends, I thought we might be able to get Hedman for less then some teams.
Why on Earth would TB trade Hedman??? Why even talk about it? I just don't get it.

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Old
02-11-2011, 10:41 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
MDZ's upside is a #4 defenseman, who contributes 40-55 points. A More phyisical Kaberle.

Hedman's upside is a 1A defenseman, with floor of a great #3

Its no contest.
i just cant agree with that. #4? I see mdzs upside as a top pairing puck mover. He has all the tools; he just needs proper coaching, development, and to get his confidence back.

ps: sorry for the bad grammar, on a phone.


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Old
02-11-2011, 10:48 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Hedman was drafted 2nd overall. Del Zotto was drafted 20th overall. Trust me, there's a reason. To say MDZ=Leetch is way, way off imo. Offensively, it's a stretch, but maybe, and that's a big MAYBE. Defensively, not in a trillion years. Leetch was one of the top 5 defensive players in the league in his day. Del Zotto will never be close to that. I wouldn't make the trade now though because DZ's stock is on the down compared to last season.

And don't forget that we're talking about Brian Leetch here. You can just throw that name around like nothing.
Brian Leetch took YEARS (I'd argue 7 or 8) to become a solid NHL defenseman. Prior to that, he was complete garbage.

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Old
02-12-2011, 12:25 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
MDZ's upside is a #4 defenseman, who contributes 40-55 points. A More phyisical Kaberle.

Hedman's upside is a 1A defenseman, with floor of a great #3

Its no contest.
Now let's be truthful, what #4 defensenan scores 40-55 points nowadays? That kind of production would atleast make him a #2 defenseman.

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02-12-2011, 12:29 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Brian Leetch took YEARS (I'd argue 7 or 8) to become a solid NHL defenseman. Prior to that, he was complete garbage.
Didn't Brian Leetch score over 100 points in his second year in the NHL? Brian Leetch got better defensively as his career went on but he was always a pretty solid defenseman whose strong point was always offense

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Old
02-12-2011, 01:56 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Brian Leetch took YEARS (I'd argue 7 or 8) to become a solid NHL defenseman. Prior to that, he was complete garbage.
We are talking about the same Brian Leetch, yes? He had more points as a rookie than Del Zotto has so far in a year and a half. Almost double. Leetch was never garbage, and why we're even comparing one of the greatest of all time, to some kid who's decent is beyond me. Del Zotto isn't fit to shine Leetch's skates. Del Zotto is a pretty good, but not great, offensive player, who struggles defensively. Leetch on the other hand was tremendous on both sides of the puck, was absolutely brilliant, and was a great leader. People here are forgetting how great Leetch was. He was arguably the greatest Ranger of all time, and arguably the greatest American of all time. His name shouldn't even be spoken in the same sentence as non hall of famers.

And btw, as far as, "7 or 8 years", he won the Norris in his 4th.

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Old
02-12-2011, 07:57 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Hedman was drafted 2nd overall. Del Zotto was drafted 20th overall. Trust me, there's a reason. To say MDZ=Leetch is way, way off imo. Offensively, it's a stretch, but maybe, and that's a big MAYBE. Defensively, not in a trillion years. Leetch was one of the top 5 defensive players in the league in his day. Del Zotto will never be close to that. I wouldn't make the trade now though because DZ's stock is on the down compared to last season.

And don't forget that we're talking about Brian Leetch here. You can just throw that name around like nothing.
Wow am I getting old?

I'm not sure how old you are but I feel like I've seen Leetch play in his prime and you haven't.

Leetch was very underrated defensively, but in no way shape or form was he a top 5 defensive defenseman. No shot. He was far from that, however he held his own and never seemed to shake off the reputation of being great offensively, but subpar defensively which I believe he garnered earlier in his career.

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Old
02-12-2011, 08:23 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
Now let's be truthful, what #4 defensenan scores 40-55 points nowadays? That kind of production would atleast make him a #2 defenseman.
Not when you factor in how dreadful he is in his own end.

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02-12-2011, 09:02 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by bmundus View Post
so you would give up Kreider and MDZ for Hedman?
Did I write that? I can't seem to find where I wrote that. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I haven't seen enough of Kreider to have an accurate feel for what he will turn out to be, but from what I've seen, I'd put him ahead of any of the other young, unproven Rangers prospects, so I wouldn't feel qualified to pull the trigger on that deal.

Back to the point:

Hedman is probably going to end up a great all-around dman. DelZotto might end up a great offensive dman. He might also end up a horrific defender. No contest.

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02-12-2011, 11:53 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Did I write that? I can't seem to find where I wrote that. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I haven't seen enough of Kreider to have an accurate feel for what he will turn out to be, but from what I've seen, I'd put him ahead of any of the other young, unproven Rangers prospects, so I wouldn't feel qualified to pull the trigger on that deal.

Back to the point:

Hedman is probably going to end up a great all-around dman. DelZotto might end up a great offensive dman. He might also end up a horrific defender. No contest.
did you read what i wrote two comments down? i was trying to prove a point. this is not Hedman for MDZ straight up. Its MDZ + for Hedman. I think the + would be a nice package for TBL.
This is really a thread on: Do you stay the course or try to upgrade now?

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Old
02-12-2011, 12:49 PM
  #45
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MDZ has quite a few years to go before I personaly consider him a bust. The only problem I have with him at this point, and it's beyond his control, and it's something I noticed last night vs. ATL. is that he is small which leads me to my next point.

If NYR Mgmt. decided to chose MDZ over John Carlson in the draft, I'm assuming due to his higher offensive upside as Carlson was/is more balanced between offence & defence, then why do they insist on making MDZ into a complete defenceman instead of playing him to his strength and pairing him with a stay at home stud like Staal or Girardi? Left or right side positioning aside.

If they had no intentions of letting him run wild when they drafted him and coincidentally like he did in the stellar 1st half of his rookie season, then shouldn't we have drafted Carlson instead?

Comparing MDZ to Hedman is like comparing apples to oranges in style of play, draft year, size.

MDZ & Carlson are both staying true to the path their Jr. careers took.

So are we miss using MDZ? Or would Carlson have been the better pick for our team concept?

That is what this thread should have been about.

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Old
02-12-2011, 01:45 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
MDZ has quite a few years to go before I personaly consider him a bust. The only problem I have with him at this point, and it's beyond his control, and it's something I noticed last night vs. ATL. is that he is small which leads me to my next point.

If NYR Mgmt. decided to chose MDZ over John Carlson in the draft, I'm assuming due to his higher offensive upside as Carlson was/is more balanced between offence & defence, then why do they insist on making MDZ into a complete defenceman instead of playing him to his strength and pairing him with a stay at home stud like Staal or Girardi? Left or right side positioning aside.

If they had no intentions of letting him run wild when they drafted him and coincidentally like he did in the stellar 1st half of his rookie season, then shouldn't we have drafted Carlson instead?

Comparing MDZ to Hedman is like comparing apples to oranges in style of play, draft year, size.

MDZ & Carlson are both staying true to the path their Jr. careers took.

So are we miss using MDZ? Or would Carlson have been the better pick for our team concept?

That is what this thread should have been about.
you have a good point, I really did not start this to be any diss on MDZ. I like his game. he needs some help right now but he is what everyone said he would be high risk high reward.
we can look back and see who would have been a better pick all day long, what i want to see is if we should give up a roster player a mid level prospect and a 1-2 round draft pick for an immediate upgrade. or do we stay the course.
I do think MDZ is making what the coaches want him to do harder then it is. They dont want him to change his game as much as just play simple and not force plays. I do think he needs to be paired with Sauer.

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Old
02-12-2011, 04:31 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
Wow am I getting old?

I'm not sure how old you are but I feel like I've seen Leetch play in his prime and you haven't.

Leetch was very underrated defensively, but in no way shape or form was he a top 5 defensive defenseman. No shot. He was far from that, however he held his own and never seemed to shake off the reputation of being great offensively, but subpar defensively which I believe he garnered earlier in his career.
I thought Leetch was great defensively. I think his defense was overshadowed by the fact that he came into the league and scored 23 goals as a rookie and then proceeded to put up a 100 points. He was far from a liability on defense. He was just an all-around great player, without much weakness in his game. That's why he's in the hall of fame.

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02-12-2011, 04:36 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I thought Leetch was great defensively. I think his defense was overshadowed by the fact that he came into the league and scored 23 goals as a rookie and then proceeded to put up a 100 points. He was far from a liability on defense. He was just an all-around great player, without much weakness in his game. That's why he's in the hall of fame.
I may not think of him as being as good in his own end as you, but i will say, he handled Jags one on one better then most other O defenders. He was underrated in his own end for sure.

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Old
02-13-2011, 01:15 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
I thought Leetch was great defensively. I think his defense was overshadowed by the fact that he came into the league and scored 23 goals as a rookie and then proceeded to put up a 100 points. He was far from a liability on defense. He was just an all-around great player, without much weakness in his game. That's why he's in the hall of fame.
Just curious - how old are you?

His D is not overshadowed because his O was so great. He was poor defensively in his early years. He never fully shook that reputation, even after he established himself as a solid defender.

Scott Neidermayer, Sergei Zubov, Al MacInnis, Nik Lidstrom, Ray Bourque were all great offensive defensemen that also were known for their strong defensive play. Their O did not overshadow their D.

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02-13-2011, 07:36 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
Just curious - how old are you?

His D is not overshadowed because his O was so great. He was poor defensively in his early years. He never fully shook that reputation, even after he established himself as a solid defender.

Scott Neidermayer, Sergei Zubov, Al MacInnis, Nik Lidstrom, Ray Bourque were all great offensive defensemen that also were known for their strong defensive play. Their O did not overshadow their D.
I saw Leetch's entire career and felt he was at worst an average defender for the first couple of years, before evolving into an extremely difficult defender to beat.

He was absolutely never a defensive liability as Del Zotto has been, to date.

The best offensive dman who was a defensive liability was Paul Coffey.

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