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Dishing the Dirt

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Old
02-13-2011, 10:50 AM
  #1
Sturminator
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Dishing the Dirt

I'm going to use this thread as a place for dumping any and all interesting information that I happen to stumble upon in my trips around the internet. Mostly, I've found a lot of interesting bits and pieces on pre-war players who are maybe still a bit faceless to many of us. I invite other posters who I know do their fair share of research to use this thread, as well. One rule: let's please save our information until all players mentioned are drafted, or at least leave undrafteds out of what we quote in the articles.

Ok, first off, an article on Moose Johnson's retirement:

Quote:
In the hockey world "Moose" Johnson for years has occupied much the same position as did Larry Lajoie in baseball. For 21 years Johnson has been the idol of the hockey fans. He has been cheered and jeered, with emphasis on the cheers. No matter what the reception he always played remarkable hockey.

Big and husky, he carried fear into the hearts of the opposing players when he took the puck down the ice. Criticism from the fan always brought out the best that was in him. Fighting mad he would take chances that meant the constant flirting with serious injury. His nose dives in an effort to beat some player to the puck, and his "poke check", in which he took a big chance of being slashed by opponents' skates, always provided a big thrill.

Johnson began playing in the east in 1901. His long reach, great speed, and powerful build soon attracted much attention. For years, he starred with the Montreal Wanderers, the 1906 world champions, and for six years either holder or runner-up for the Stanley Cup, hockey's most prized trophy.

Johnson has the longest reach of any professional hockey player. He accentuates this with the longest stick used in the game, making him effective as far as 91 inches from the puck. When the cheers of the home fans turned to jeers Johnson decided he was through. In his passing hockey loses a player who has done much to popularize the sport.

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02-13-2011, 01:07 PM
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A couple ridiculous videos of Valeri Kharlamov:





...and how Valeri's ankle got broken:


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02-13-2011, 01:34 PM
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A pretty hard one about Mickey MacKay:

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Mickey MacKay May Return to Oldtime Form - October 31, 1924

How far, if at all, has Mickey MacKay slipped since that fateful night in Seattle when xxxxxx laid MacKay's jaw open with a blow from his stick and brought on himself a perpetual banishment from the Pacific Coast Hockey League.

Never over robust, spectacular in style and always able to uncork a lightning flash of speed in the pinch, MacKay has been, in the eyes of the critics, self-elevated to that position by virtue of repeated seasons at the Arena, an in-and-outer. One night he looks like the star of old, the next he couldn't be seen through the world's largest telescope. Changes in league personnel, the flooding of the hockey market with star players and the general expected revolution in hockey practice now that Vancouver is merged with the Western Canada Hockey League, induced MacKay to do some thinking recently.

When he signed yesterday for another year with the club he has served so long, Mickey expressed a determination to get into first class shape ere the season opened and to stay that way. Perhaps it will be news to many of the close pursuers of the hockey stars to know that last year, in the opening game, MacKay stopped a hard driven shot with his good right thigh. By the time he was in the dressing room it was necessary to cut away his hockey clothes, so badly swollen was the injury. MacKay was not himself again until toward the end of the season. He was used only on the pinch till the series in the east and the final playoff, when he went with much of his old-time speed and abandon.

"I wasn't right last year," Mickey said recently, "and I know it. I couldn't seem to get going. This year I'm starting out early, taking the game seriously and will make an honest endeavor to deliver everything I possess in every game."

If Mickey carries out his preseason promises it may result in a comparative in-and-outer returning with a bang to stardom. MacKay joined Vancouver in 1915, coming here from Grand Forks, where he set the sticks ablaze with his form. MacKay leaped right into the forefront in hockey and for several years was among the league's leading scorers.


Last edited by Sturminator: 02-13-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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Old
02-13-2011, 06:22 PM
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So Mickey had some injuries and an off year, yet was still amongst the leagues leading scorers. What's the point?

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The Calgary Herald, March 8, 1923 - Victoria got a shock when they saw the Maroons line up to combat the Cougars at their own game. Much of the success of Victoria has been due to the two-men attack and the three-man defense which has been maintained during the last two months. Vancouver has been experimenting with this style for the last ten days, and they had it perfected in time for tonight's battle. They used Mickey MacKay as the third defense man, and he functioned in the form that made him famous as a rover in the days of seven-man hockey. Whenever the Cougars went flying through and managed to evade the two forwards, they seemed lost when they struck the Vancouver defense. There was always someone in the way no matter which route they took.

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02-13-2011, 06:23 PM
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Cyclone Taylor vs. Newsy Lalonde

vs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Kieran, New York Times, March 27th 1930
The greatest player that ever pulled a pair of skates on his feet. That's who Cyclone Taylor was. And a fighter! I remember the night he and Newsy Lalonde had it out on the ice, and then, after the game, Newsy was getting on a street car and Taylor, coming up from behind, grabbed him by the leg and pulled him off. They fought in the snow for an hour.

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02-13-2011, 06:34 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sabre View Post
Cyclone Taylor vs. Newsy Lalonde

vs.
I wonder about this quote. This is the kind of thing that would have been mentioned in Taylor's biography or in the book about the Patricks. And the impression I got about Lalonde/Taylor is that they were friendly rivals and that's it.

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02-13-2011, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I wonder about this quote. This is the kind of thing that would have been mentioned in Taylor's biography or in the book about the Patricks. And the impression I got about Lalonde/Taylor is that they were friendly rivals and that's it.
Are you saying that someone just imagined that happened? It was the direct words from a guy to a reporter, a guy that talked as if he saw lots of Taylor and Lalonde in his day.

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02-13-2011, 09:10 PM
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Are you saying that someone just imagined that happened? It was the direct words from a guy to a reporter, a guy that talked as if he saw lots of Taylor and Lalonde in his day.
To me, that quote is obviously not true. Most likely it's from a humour piece and not meant to be taken seriously.

Even the roughest hockey players usually didn't fight off the ice, let alone Taylor. I believe after Joe Hall and Newsy Lalonde had a nasty scrap on the ice and one was hauled into court, the other one showed up to defend him.

Also, off-ice real life fights don't go on for anywhere close to an hour. Rarely as long as a minute, outside of Hollywood.

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02-13-2011, 09:14 PM
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Also, off-ice real life fights don't go on for anywhere close to an hour. Rarely as long as a minute, outside of Hollywood.
You sound like a man speaking from personal experience.

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02-13-2011, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
To me, that quote is obviously not true. Most likely it's from a humour piece and not meant to be taken seriously.

Even the roughest hockey players usually didn't fight off the ice, let alone Taylor. I believe after Joe Hall and Newsy Lalonde had a nasty scrap on the ice and one was hauled into court, the other one showed up to defend him.

Also, off-ice real life fights don't go on for anywhere close to an hour. Rarely as long as a minute, outside of Hollywood.
The article itself was anything but humorous.. look it up yourself. The date is right there.

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Old
02-13-2011, 09:26 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boy Wonder View Post
The article itself was anything but humorous.. look it up yourself. The date is right there.
I think it's humourous.

like, who fights for an hour? really.

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02-13-2011, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I think it's humourous.

like, who fights for an hour? really.
Then you'd be a fool.

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02-13-2011, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
You sound like a man speaking from personal experience.
Fraid not. But I've been in high school. One on one fights are posturing and maybe10 seconds of actual fighting. Real fights quickly turn into one-sided beatings as soon as someone gets an edge unless someone pulls them apart.

Quote:
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The article itself was anything but humorous.. look it up yourself. The date is right there.
Just looked it up. Kieran's column is just passing on the monologue of some guy he met "out on the town" (probably somewhere where Prohibition was not observed) about old time hockey players.

Do people seriously think that the story happened as written, on the word of some guy in a bar?

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02-13-2011, 09:36 PM
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seventieslord
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Then you'd be a fool.
If I fought for an hour? Yes, I'd be a fool. How stupid would I have to be to not finish the job in 60 minutes? How stupid would my opponent have to be?

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02-13-2011, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
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Do people seriously think that the story happened as written, on the word of some guy in a bar?
God, no.

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02-13-2011, 09:38 PM
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I think the point of the story was to show that Taylor would fight back if provoked.

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02-14-2011, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
So Mickey had some injuries and an off year, yet was still amongst the leagues leading scorers. What's the point?
It is what it is. He seems to have gotten physically pretty beat up throughout his career. I think the physical punishment such a small star player must have taken likely explains MacKay's very up and down scoring finishes during his prime, and the "in-and-outer" characterization. MacKay also turned in some pretty lackluster playoff performances in Vancouver (especially when he was the team's offensive star), and was specifically criticized for it. But I've also got tons of quotes about MacKay's defensive excellence (whereas about Taylor I have found literally nothing) and speed. Yes, the Millionaires seem to have tried using MacKay in the Frank Nighbor role when they played 6 man hockey, though in the 7 man Western game he seems to have been more offense-minded.

We'll revisit MacKay later. He plays a pretty big role in some of the research I'm pulling together.


Last edited by Sturminator: 02-14-2011 at 03:30 AM.
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02-14-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
It is what it is. He seems to have gotten physically pretty beat up throughout his career. I think the physical punishment such a small star player must have taken likely explains MacKay's very up and down scoring finishes during his prime, and the "in-and-outer" characterization. MacKay also turned in some pretty lackluster playoff performances in Vancouver (especially when he was the team's offensive star), and was specifically criticized for it. But I've also got tons of quotes about MacKay's defensive excellence (whereas about Taylor I have found literally nothing) and speed. Yes, the Millionaires seem to have tried using MacKay in the Frank Nighbor role when they played 6 man hockey, though in the 7 man Western game he seems to have been more offense-minded.

We'll revisit MacKay later. He plays a pretty big role in some of the research I'm pulling together.
It just seems strange in context with what he did that season.

He was tied for the PCHA goal scoring title, and finished 3rd overall in points. He was also the top scorer for the PCHA in inter-league matches aginst the WCHL. His play against the other PCHA teams seems to be his "outer" portion.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TxFkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=93oNAAAAIBAJ&pg=43 69,1095048&dq=mickey+mackay&hl=en

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02-14-2011, 09:51 AM
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It just seems strange in context with what he did that season.

He was tied for the PCHA goal scoring title, and finished 3rd overall in points. He was also the top scorer for the PCHA in inter-league matches aginst the WCHL. His play against the other PCHA teams seems to be his "outer" portion.
Yeah, the context of the report is strange, because MacKay did have, to all appearances, a good offensive season the year before. I am more interested in the commentary on his career, because I had always wondered about his strange up and down scoring levels out west.

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02-14-2011, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Yeah, the context of the report is strange, because MacKay did have, to all appearances, a good offensive season the year before. I am more interested in the commentary on his career, because I had always wondered about his strange up and down scoring levels out west.
In large part it had to do with the up and down nature of scoring league wide and on his team.

Here are the goals per game averages from the first 5 years of his PCHA career from the Hockey Compendium, and his teams totals for GF and assists. I'll throw in the NHA/NHL for comparison.

YearPCHA GPGTeam GFTeam AssistsNHA/NHL GPG
1914-1510.09115558.12
1915-167.9275397.53
1916-179.641318010.24
1917-186.9070439.93
1918-195.8272458.22

Vancouver was the top team in GF all 5 years.

Certainly his broken ankle bone in 15-16 contributed to an off year. His broken jaw in 18-19 left a huge mark on the PCHA landscape for years to come, starting with that years playoff race.

He didn't miss that many actual games, but one does have to wonder how much time he spent as a spare.

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02-14-2011, 11:18 AM
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bm67 is clearly getting atd fever again

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02-14-2011, 11:45 AM
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bm67 is clearly getting atd fever again
I've never lost interest in the history, the players, or even assembling a great team, just in all the rest of the crap that goes with the draft.

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02-14-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67 View Post
I've never lost interest in the history, the players, or even assembling a great team, just in all the rest of the crap that goes with the draft.
learn not to give a blank and enjoy drafting different great players in each draft

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02-14-2011, 12:06 PM
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I've never lost interest in the history, the players, or even assembling a great team, just in all the rest of the crap that goes with the draft.
which crap?

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02-14-2011, 12:36 PM
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which crap?
Complaining about the time limit after waiting only 10 minutes since the last pick, or asking for someone to be skipped after waiting an hour, for one thing.

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