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Old
02-14-2011, 04:59 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
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Official Glen Sather trade deadline quote book thread

Not sure if this should be in the trade speculation thread or not.

It's not everyday Sather tells us his thoughts. Seems Brooks got some info from Sather on background. Don't quote me but these are my thoughts.

Quote:
"The last few weeks have made it a little more difficult to evaluate because first we had all those injuries and now with the guys coming back we've lost our rhythm," GM Glen Sather told The Post after the match.

"I think we have enough depth in the organization where if a move would make sense we would probably do that now.

"But I'm not going to give up a valuable piece. I don't think that makes any sense."
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...-rss&FEEDNAME=

LB added the Rangers are in the market to rent for PP QB/PP shot and could explore a rental at center. They won't yield a valuable asset.

Brooks referred to Kaberle as a poor defender not worth valuable assets.

They won't pursue Weiss and Spezza or a center signed past this season because the Rangers believe they will sign Richards as a free agent on July 1.

Brooks added Sather could be interested in sending a #2 to NJ for Jason Arnott.

Sather tried to acquire Arnott from Nashville last June before the Debbies got him. Nashville wanted Ryan McDonagh and Sather balked. Sather had Arnott in Edmonton and traded him after Arnott fathered a child out of wedlock which sent small town Edmonton into a tizzy.


Last edited by RangerBoy: 02-19-2011 at 07:59 AM.
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02-14-2011, 05:01 AM
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Bryan Murray labeled Spezza as an untouchable on Saturday.

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02-14-2011, 05:24 AM
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Outside of the interview I don't hold much of what Brooks says with any weight. The Kaberle comment is laughable. I didn't read past that.

However the most important part of the interview;
"I think we have enough depth in the organization where if a move would make sense we would probably do that now."

Some of us who have been advocating the idea of adding additional pieces to a core we already have established are talking about what Sather mentioned; The fact that the organization has enough depth to explore. But no, let's stand Pat and not improve the club. A real rebuild explores through trade and signings as well. You just need the right balance. Relying on drafts alone will not work out.

So Sather wants to add 36 year old Jason Arnott? You really can't make this **** up.

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02-14-2011, 06:09 AM
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Cant wait for next week. First time I have no school on a trade dead line, expecially the NBA dead line .

I woudnt mind Kaberle in New York, for 2 seconds, Gilroy, and VTank.

Use your magic Slats!! Get some body good for us!

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02-14-2011, 06:25 AM
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Glen Sather

"But I'm not going to give up a valuable piece. I don't think that makes any sense"

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz1Dw2eMBpD

Valuable piece. First round pick. Young roster player. Top prospect.

Where did Sather say he was not willing to make a move which did not require giving up a valauble asset?

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02-14-2011, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Brooks referred to Kaberle as a poor defender not worth valuable assets.
This just gets on my nerves.

Kaberele's defense is most certainly what it is. But the only reason its pointed out is because he have played on a sheitty team for a long time. Its most certainly not worse then Dan Boyle's defense, or Kimmo Timmonen's defense.

Brooks says Kaberle is a poor defender and not worth giving up any assets for. I do not mind that Brooks trash Kaberle, in public, since we do not want to hype his price up. But in regards to the actual point, Torts won a cup with Dan Boyle, Id like to see Boyle on Toronto's blueline 3-4 years in a row. He -- IF ANYONE -- would have been seriously exposed. This is just how it is. This is a fact. On a good team, a nr 1 D can focus on playing offense night after night. The NR 1 D for Pittsburgh, SJ, Washington, Philly, Detroit, Chicago and co -- they do not play much defense. On a sheitty team, by default, a D like Kaberle really plays in a shut down role. His job description is more like Girardis/Sauers then Dan Boyle's. Thats life.

But I am sure Brooks and everyone else would be all giddy about getting Dan Boyle, while Tomas Kaberle is seen as a pretty bad option. There is no sense behind that. Put Sergei Zubov in his prime on this years Toronto and it certainly wouldn't have been that pretty always. The bottom line is that its a fundamental difference for a offensiveminded D these days to play on sheitty teams or good teams. The difference in momentum is so big compared to how it was 5 years ago when things just shifted back and forth, and every team could keep things even by just not making misstakes.

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Old
02-14-2011, 06:55 AM
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Arnott?

But, why . . . ?

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02-14-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
This just gets on my nerves.

Kaberele's defense is most certainly what it is. But the only reason its pointed out is because he have played on a sheitty team for a long time. Its most certainly not worse then Dan Boyle's defense, or Kimmo Timmonen's defense.

Brooks says Kaberle is a poor defender and not worth giving up any assets for. I do not mind that Brooks trash Kaberle, in public, since we do not want to hype his price up. But in regards to the actual point, Torts won a cup with Dan Boyle, Id like to see Boyle on Toronto's blueline 3-4 years in a row. He -- IF ANYONE -- would have been seriously exposed. This is just how it is. This is a fact. On a good team, a nr 1 D can focus on playing offense night after night. The NR 1 D for Pittsburgh, SJ, Washington, Philly, Detroit, Chicago and co -- they do not play much defense. On a sheitty team, by default, a D like Kaberle really plays in a shut down role. His job description is more like Girardis/Sauers then Dan Boyle's. Thats life.

But I am sure Brooks and everyone else would be all giddy about getting Dan Boyle, while Tomas Kaberle is seen as a pretty bad option. There is no sense behind that. Put Sergei Zubov in his prime on this years Toronto and it certainly wouldn't have been that pretty always. The bottom line is that its a fundamental difference for a offensiveminded D these days to play on sheitty teams or good teams. The difference in momentum is so big compared to how it was 5 years ago when things just shifted back and forth, and every team could keep things even by just not making misstakes.
Personally I like both Boyle and Timmonen more than Kaberle but neither are available and you're right that throughout their careers they've consistently had better situations than Kaberle to get the best out of them. I'd like to see the Rangers try to get Kaberle because they need a guy who can set up and make plays from the point on the pwp. As for getting Dan Boyle I look at his getting nearly $7 mil per for 3 more seasons after this and I think--well, maybe not.

If the Rangers do go after Kaberle they need to keep from paying too much for him. As well I wouldn't be giving Tomas a long term contract afterwards. I'm very leery of giving early-mid thirties players long term contracts--so I view this more or less as a rental--especially if they're really going to go hard after Richards in the summer. If that's the case it's either one or the other. There is only so much money we have to go around and Rangers first have to make sure there's enough left over for their RFA's.

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02-14-2011, 07:30 AM
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Trading away valuable assets for players that won't be here beyond this season doesn't make sense.

Trading an asset at the draft for Brad Richards' rights and getting him locked in, makes sense.

Have to have patience for the big fish. Don't waste time on the Arnott's and Kaberle's. They don't make us a contender.

Richards does.

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02-14-2011, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Personally I like both Boyle and Timmonen more than Kaberle but neither are available and you're right that throughout their careers they've consistently had better situations than Kaberle to get the best out of them. I'd like to see the Rangers try to get Kaberle because they need a guy who can set up and make plays from the point on the pwp. As for getting Dan Boyle I look at his getting nearly $7 mil per for 3 more seasons after this and I think--well, maybe not.

If the Rangers do go after Kaberle they need to keep from paying too much for him. As well I wouldn't be giving Tomas a long term contract afterwards. I'm very leery of giving early-mid thirties players long term contracts--so I view this more or less as a rental--especially if they're really going to go hard after Richards in the summer. If that's the case it's either one or the other. There is only so much money we have to go around and Rangers first have to make sure there's enough left over for their RFA's.
Id probably take Kaberle over both Boyle and Timmonen, he is a tad behind both on the PP blueline, but IMHO is better the both at coming out of his own end. He makes the players around him better so to speak (McCabe probably owes him 99% of every cent he have made over 3m per or something like that). But it can certainly be debated.

But like I said, Boyle or Timmonen definitely aren't better defensively then Kaberle. Nor more physical. Nor anything. Both are in fact much smaller then him, and while Kaberle hardly is a punishing D, he won't be taken advantage of to the same extent as the much smaller Boyle and Timmonen.

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02-14-2011, 07:40 AM
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Sather also spoke to Arthur Staple yesterday

Quote:
"Every team has issues, every team has ebbs and flows," Sather said. "You can't start panicking about all the things that happen.

"I think we can compete [in the playoffs]. It doesn't mean we're going to do anything [at the deadline] or not do anything. The whole goal this season has been to keep these young guys going as well as they can, to create a team that takes some ownership in itself. It took us a while to get to that stage, but we're getting there."
Quote:
Sather spoke like a man who understands that, which means the names being bandied about on the rumor websites - Bryan McCabe, Tomas Kaberle, Joni Pitkanen, Dennis Wideman - most likely are just that, rumors.

The Rangers may not be a Stanley Cup contender yet, but trading a high draft pick or a coveted prospect for a two-month rental won't change that.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/column...-ice-1.2683946

Message from Rangers management. Don't Panic.


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02-14-2011, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
This just gets on my nerves.
Why?

Darren Dreger said on the Bill Watters show last week that Kaberle was worth(AT BEST) a 2nd round pick and a prospect. On Wednesday night during the Habs-Bruins,the TSN panel were discussing Kaberle. More clarification on the kind of prospect. B-level prospect.

Judging from Sather's comments,he would move a #2 and a B-level prospect for Kaberle but according to other reports;Burke wants top assets. #1 pick. Top prospect. Young roster player preferably a forward.

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02-14-2011, 08:02 AM
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We may not love it but Sather seems to pull off minor moves like Sjostrom, Backstrom, Morris...............I figure something like that around a Dman is coming with smaller parts on the way out

Turn EC info a better C and turn Gilroy into a better dman. Thats my hope


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02-14-2011, 08:09 AM
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Burke is so screwed. He played this one all the way down to a second rounder and knows it.

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02-14-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
We may not love it but Sather seems to pull off minor moves like Sjostrom, Backstrom, Morris...............I figure something like that around a Dman is coming with smaller parts on the way out
Problem is, imo theres really no cheap guys like morris and antropov. Both cheap value and cap wise, that are young and have careers ahead of them.


And I think the value for kaberle is just that a second and a B level prospect. And burkes not going to take that, but HE DOESN'T HAVE TO, people don't seem to understand kaberle is poor defensively, he's top notch offensively from the blue line and he's not a cancer to the team. Hes a large part of the teams successes and Burke is in no way itching to trade kaberle, but if an offer comes along and the return is worth more than he is worth to the team. But people act like Burke is being forced to trade kaberle, if he did he'd be back at square one looking for a PPQB just like everyone else.

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02-14-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Why?

Darren Dreger said on the Bill Watters show last week that Kaberle was worth(AT BEST) a 2nd round pick and a prospect. On Wednesday night during the Habs-Bruins,the TSN panel were discussing Kaberle. More clarification on the kind of prospect. B-level prospect.

Judging from Sather's comments,he would move a #2 and a B-level prospect for Kaberle but according to other reports;Burke wants top assets. #1 pick. Top prospect. Young roster player preferably a forward.
Now we have two topics; how good Kaberle is and what he is worth. The last topic is extremely easy to answer; he is worth what it will take to make Toronto move him (if he waives). Market price on a open market is not hard to define.

Market value can change. Had someone asked me 12-24 month ago what Spezza was worth on the trade market, I would have said nothing basically. I mean, why trade for someone with a 7m contract when you just could have signed a 7m player on the UFA market for free? Nowadays, with the shortage of playmaking centers out there, and the completely bare UFA market -- if a Spezza is put in play, someone would give up a lot for him. Hed have a ton of value for a team like Edm, and a bunch of other franchises in this league. And on the market you only have Richards, and there will probably be 10 desperate suiters for him. So nowadays he have value.

What's Kaberle's value? Whats Slats offering? Look, if I am in a negotiation, and people ask me what my "worst-for-me-offer" is, Id definitely not say it. If Slats say's that he is prepaired to offer a 1st, nobody will ask anything else then a 1st from him. We have weeks infront of us before the deadline, I am betting that Slats is prepaired to offer more then he says. But, I do not think he would do it for a "rental". We want a PPQB, for sure, and a center. There are plenty of decent PPQB's out there. From 21 y/o's to older guys. If someone calls Slats and asks if he is willing to deal Anisimov for a good young PPQB, would he listen? I can not see why he wouldn't. With Kaberle, for all we know Toronto could grant us a chance to talk with him before a deal, and Kaberle can express interest to sign like a 3 year 5.5m deal in NY -- all of a sudden we are not talking about a rental... Why not give up more then a 2nd and a b-tier prospect? It don't make any sense.

On the second topic, guys like Dreger said that Redden was a Norris Candidate and that Phaneuf were lock to win a handful of Norris Trophy's down the road. These guys have said a helluva lot of things over the years, and time after time in hindsight they were about as far off as it was possible to be. They want to create topic, and goes with the stream constantly but enhance it 10 times. A guy like Cheechoo gets hot and scores a bunch of goals -- no doubt -- he is a top 5 elite player in the world ever, it sounds like. There is never any context.

Kaberle is miles better then even a 100% healty, and throw in a handful of years younger, Sheldon Souray. He is a very good hockeyplayer. Defensively he is maybe a tad below avg (there are plenty and further plenty of pretty mediocre D's in this league) Nobody benefits from saying that in the press. What good could come out of it? Toronto sucks, its basically everyone else's fault then Kaberle (almost). Why make that point? Its better for the media to trash him, a angrey viewer is better then a viewer who do not care. Had Toronto been in the top 8 in the east, Kaberele would have been compared to Bobby Orr/Nik Lidström by guys like Dreger -- there is no inbetween. Its like when Montreal played well a few seasons back, boy was Markov hyped (a fine solid D, nothing spectacular, but solid and better then many others).

Listening to these guys, its sounds like Kaberle is as good as like a Jason Arnott or some other suspect.

People can have any opinion they want on Kaberle, but when its not compliant compared to their opinion on players just as good, and just as "flawed", as Kaberle, its annoys me.


Last edited by Ola: 02-14-2011 at 08:37 AM.
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Old
02-14-2011, 08:32 AM
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After what Philly did last year and the fact that it looks like it's just about getting hot in the playoffs, I really don't want to see the comment "They are not a Stanley Cup Contender."

How many times has it been proven that if you make the playoffs, you are a Stanley Cup contender?

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02-14-2011, 08:53 AM
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Sounds like things may be a little quiet at the Deadline for the Rangers. Not necessarily a bad thing.

I really thought they would swing something with the Sens but Murray pretty much doused that.

I like that Sather seems commited to not giving up too much via trade. I think Kaberle is worth a 2nd for sure, and maybe a mid level prospect. But...if this team doesn't win without him then a deal for Kaberle should be off the table for good.

On Arnott the Rangers missed the boat by 10 years! I mean the guy is what 36? Is he good on the faceoffs still? Guess i shouldn't judge the guy before I watch him for a while, but watching Devils games to me is like watching paint dry. Especially with Parise out of the lineup. But, if Arnott is really a potential candidate what is the price, and how likely is a deal between the Rangers and the Devils? I am guess that either Christensen, or Gilroy would be involved. Maybe a pick too. Hoipefully not a 2nd, I am not sold on sending a 2nd rounder to arguably your biggest division rival. Christensen and Gilroy are expendable, but the pick has value. If Sather steals him, then I guess I am ok with it. What about White, could he somehow be involved? He does have a relationship with Kovalchuk right?

Wish Larry could have gotten more out of Slats about the team scouting the Jackets. I believe I read that here. Originally my guess is Tyutin becuase that has rumored in the recent past. People have mentioned Hejda too. Hejda doesn't add anything offensive to the Blueline so he doesn't address that need. Is he anymore physical than say Eminger has been this year? Not sure, just asking here. He's bigger and he blocks more shots...but is Hejda the type of player that can impose his will? Maybe it's Klesla they are looking at? But, what is the pricetag on the Jackets Dmen? I hope that Del Zotto isn't moved for any of them. Too early to give him up unless there is a bigger name involved.

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02-14-2011, 08:59 AM
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please stay away from kaberle slats. the hype here for that kid is weird. toronto are sick of him. do not make him our problem and do not trade away anything of value. stay the course.

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02-14-2011, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
After what Philly did last year and the fact that it looks like it's just about getting hot in the playoffs, I really don't want to see the comment "They are not a Stanley Cup Contender."

How many times has it been proven that if you make the playoffs, you are a Stanley Cup contender?
I would rather the Rangers be the under dog going in, just as they were against Buffalo in 06-07 when they should have won that series.

This team plays better as the under dog and with the group of guys they have if they are the under dog the whole way through the playoffs I have a good feeling about what can happen if they can make the playoffs.

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02-14-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
After what Philly did last year and the fact that it looks like it's just about getting hot in the playoffs, I really don't want to see the comment "They are not a Stanley Cup Contender."

How many times has it been proven that if you make the playoffs, you are a Stanley Cup contender?
Philly was a vastly underachieving team, with a wealth of playoff experience. They had top notch players at every position, tho it was a surprise they made it to the finals it wasn't mind-blowing. Phillis team last year was on a different level than the rangers now, the east is to strong now for us to beat out the best teams in a 7 game series. As much as I'd like to see it happen, I try to stay realistic and see this team is overachieving and I don't think we have the pieces to make an 8th seed cup run like Philly did.

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02-14-2011, 09:10 AM
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The term "Stanley Cup Contender" is an arbitrary phrase used by advocates of tanking, and large UFA signings.

Its all numbers and probabilities and percentage points. Nothing more. Any team still alive has a chance to win the cup.

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02-14-2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
After what Philly did last year and the fact that it looks like it's just about getting hot in the playoffs, I really don't want to see the comment "They are not a Stanley Cup Contender."

How many times has it been proven that if you make the playoffs, you are a Stanley Cup contender?
none, I think its like no team under a 5 seed has ever won the cup

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02-14-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
On the second topic, guys like Dreger said that Redden was a Norris Candidate and that Phaneuf were lock to win a handful of Norris Trophy's down the road. These guys have said a helluva lot of things over the years, and time after time in hindsight they were about as far off as it was possible to be. They want to create topic, and goes with the stream constantly but enhance it 10 times. A guy like Cheechoo gets hot and scores a bunch of goals -- no doubt -- he is a top 5 elite player in the world ever, it sounds like. There is never any context.
I'm not sure when exactly you are referring to, but while the media IS often very wrong, the Redden signing was almost universally panned by the press as a disaster-to-be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY
The term "Stanley Cup Contender" is an arbitrary phrase used by advocates of tanking, and large UFA signings.

Its all numbers and probabilities and percentage points. Nothing more. Any team still alive has a chance to win the cup.
It's been over 30 years since a team lower than the 5th seed has won the Stanley Cup. In the vast majority of cases, one of the top 3 seeds from either conference wins.

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Old
02-14-2011, 09:25 AM
  #25
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So I'm reading the article thinking this is fine, Sather is approaching this smartly. No top prospects no top draft choice. Deal depth in the organization because we are at that point.

Where's the problem here?

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