HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Flyers vs Flyers Alumni & Rejects - 2/13/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-14-2011, 02:39 PM
  #176
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
I did say typically. When I said its a problem I meant in the eyes of fans. Should have mentioned that in the first place. Since you don't see most of what a captain does, fans like to see the captain be ur best player or ur best role player. Its not some hard and fast rule. Though I do think if I looked at all the captains around the league, which I might do later at home if I remember, I bet most would fall into one of those two categories.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:40 PM
  #177
johnjm22
16,005
 
johnjm22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barstow, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,390
vCash: 500
You have to ask WHY Brown was picked as captain. He took it upon himself to help other young players transition to the NHL, so they didn't have to go through what he went through. It fit in with Lombardi's idea of changing the culture around the Kings franchise.

I don't know if he's the best captain, but he was the only real option at the time.

johnjm22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:43 PM
  #178
two out of three*
 
two out of three*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to two out of three* Send a message via AIM to two out of three*
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Not denying what he gave to the team, but where was he the best role player? He wasn't really even the best defensive defenseman the Kings had during his years as Captain, and what other role was he going to fill, if not that?

Mattias was certainly a solid player, but no more or less valuable than Brown is now. Norstrom had really only one duty he could perform well - playing stay-at-home D. He didn't fight, didn't even hit all that much, didn't score, wasn't a terrific passer or stickhandler, etc.
He wasn't the best defensive defenseman? I'm sorry, who was?

And he didn't just perform it "well.." He was one of the BEST. Mattias was a terrific skater, and I beg to differ.. Norstroms first pass out of the zone was ALWAYS good.

two out of three* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:43 PM
  #179
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... How would you explain Mattias Norstrom, then?
Thats easy:

The best defensive defenseman on the team. A leader by example and work ethic. The epitomy of a veteran role player.

Next question, please.

DIEHARD the King fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:45 PM
  #180
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
I think I might have to take This further, do a little research and write and article. This is an interesting discussion.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:45 PM
  #181
Chruceg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Because I think Greene brings more intangibles on the ice. I don't know what goes on in the locker room but I have a good feeling Greene is more vocal there too. Comparing brown to the rest of the NHL RWs has nothing to do with comparing him to the rest of the kings players. Its a false start on an argument since one has nothing to do with the other.
If you can answer this question I promise to drop it.

How can a player be one of the very best in the league at his position but not be the best at his role on his own team?

Chruceg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:46 PM
  #182
two out of three*
 
two out of three*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to two out of three* Send a message via AIM to two out of three*
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I did say typically. When I said its a problem I meant in the eyes of fans. Should have mentioned that in the first place.
Getzlaf
Chara
Iginla
Staal
Toews
Foote (best role player)
Nash
Morrow
Lidstrom
Mikko Koivu
Shea Weber
Weight
Drury
Alfreddsson
Richards
Doan
Crosby
Thornton
Lecavlier
Phaneuf
Sedin
Ovechkin

I would say that you, sir, are correct.

two out of three* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 02:56 PM
  #183
DeeMeck
Registered User
 
DeeMeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,366
vCash: 50
At the time Brown was the best choice.

He committed himself to L.A. at a discount. Very big in the community. L.A. is tattooed on his butt.

Sure, there may be better options now...but I don't see a change coming. I would mostly prefer brown taking it upon himself to grow with the team and captaincy.

DeeMeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 03:01 PM
  #184
JT Dutch*
Cult of Personality
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
He wasn't the best defensive defenseman? I'm sorry, who was?

And he didn't just perform it "well.." He was one of the BEST. Mattias was a terrific skater, and I beg to differ.. Norstroms first pass out of the zone was ALWAYS good.
... Norstrom wasn't a plus player for even one season of his run as Kings' Captain. As for the best defensive defenseman, it was Aaron Miller for the first couple seasons. After that, you could make a case that the Kings really didn't have a shutdown D, and several defensemen had better numbers: Corvo before the lockout did, and after the lockout, Gleason and Dempsey did. Again, Norstrom was alright, but his prime years were in the past by the time the C was on his sweater.

Norstrom was Captain because he was the senior King, and the guy who appeared at the time to be the one who would retire with the team and lend stability. This is what Brown is, now.

JT Dutch* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 03:03 PM
  #185
lumbergh
Registered User
 
lumbergh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 1,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
Mattias was a terrific skater, and I beg to differ.. Norstroms first pass out of the zone was ALWAYS good.
You mean off the glass and out of the zone to the opposing defender? If that's what you mean by first pass being good, then yes, Norstrom's first pass was ALWAYS good.

lumbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 03:12 PM
  #186
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
If you can answer this question I promise to drop it.

How can a player be one of the very best in the league at his position but not be the best at his role on his own team?
Because your argument is illogical. You are saying that since brown is one of the top RW scorers in the league, therefore he must be the best role player on the Kings. You don't see how that doesn't follow? You are saying A +2 therefore pi. To me, your logic goes like this: I am one of the richest people in the country, therefore I spend my money better than anyone in the state. Almost follows, but doesn't follow, because you are talking about two different categories. Just like, Brown is one of the top scoring RWs in the league, but that doesn't make him the top scorer on the Kings. Brown could hit more than anyone in the league, but still not be the hardest hitter on the Kings. See the difference yet? One of your arguments (brown being best in the league at something) is predicated on his position. The other (brown being the best at his role on the team) is independent of his position.

And this whole "best role player" thing isn't definitive anyways, its open to opinion and interpretation. I think Brown is one of the better right wings in the league, but I like Greene's set of leadership skills and the on-ice examples he sets more than what Brown brings in the intangibles department. But again, I don't see what goes on in the locker room, therefore this argument is only half full.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 03:58 PM
  #187
William H Bonney
Registered User
 
William H Bonney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sierra Nevada
Country: United States
Posts: 19,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chruceg View Post
I think it's crazy that people refuse to accept the fact that Brown is 17th out of all RW in scoring, and tied for 58th out of all forwards in scoring, while being in the top five in the league in hits. Only twelve teams in the league have a RW with more points than Brown. Every single guy ahead of him is one of the premier right wing scorers in the NHL. And I can guarantee that no other right winger hits as much as he does. I mean if he put up numbers similar to Simmonds then maybe people would have a case.

I just fail to understand how he isn't first line talent.

I don't get it.

I won't get it.
It's because Brown is such a peaks and valleys type of player. He goes on stretches like he's on right now (2 goals, 4 assists in the last 21 games) right after going a great run (7 goals, 12 assists in 12 games). Brown has always been a frustrating player offensively because he has more offensive skill than people give him credit for but there's often a disconnect between that skill and his results. I wouldn't say Brown is an ideal first line talent but he can be a first line player. The problem is on our team we thrust him, by necessity, into a "skill" role on that 1st line when you'd much rather have him in a "passenger" role.

Brown will always be frustrating to an extent but a lot of that is circumstance. He's being asked to be something that is an inappropriate allocation of his skill set. A lot of people think Brown is a selfish player but that didn't start until Lombardi/Murray challenged Brown (and Kopitar) to elevate their games and blah blah blah. There's nothing wrong with a 25-30/25-30 guy a year that is always one of the league leaders in hits. And once we (Lombardi, Murray, fans) stop trying to believe Brown will be anything more than that outside of a career year, we'll all be happier.

__________________
"I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough." - Mark Twain.
William H Bonney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 04:23 PM
  #188
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by William H Bonney View Post
It's because Brown is such a peaks and valleys type of player. He goes on stretches like he's on right now (2 goals, 4 assists in the last 21 games) right after going a great run (7 goals, 12 assists in 12 games). Brown has always been a frustrating player offensively because he has more offensive skill than people give him credit for but there's often a disconnect between that skill and his results. I wouldn't say Brown is an ideal first line talent but he can be a first line player. The problem is on our team we thrust him, by necessity, into a "skill" role on that 1st line when you'd much rather have him in a "passenger" role.

Brown will always be frustrating to an extent but a lot of that is circumstance. He's being asked to be something that is an inappropriate allocation of his skill set. A lot of people think Brown is a selfish player but that didn't start until Lombardi/Murray challenged Brown (and Kopitar) to elevate their games and blah blah blah. There's nothing wrong with a 25-30/25-30 guy a year that is always one of the league leaders in hits. And once we (Lombardi, Murray, fans) stop trying to believe Brown will be anything more than that outside of a career year, we'll all be happier.
Did you mean Frolov?

DIEHARD the King fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:12 PM
  #189
TonySCV
Moderator
One More Time
 
TonySCV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,894
vCash: 500
BTW... a couple of folks have alluded to this in this thread, but that win vs. Philly was not just another ordinary win. Philly was healthy, rested and is the odds-on favorite to come out of the east this year. The Kings had no business winning that game on paper, but they did.

That Philly win was pretty special for a lot of reasons and was easily one of the most significant regular season wins this team has had in ages.

TonySCV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:28 PM
  #190
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
BTW... a couple of folks have alluded to this in this thread, but that win vs. Philly was not just another ordinary win. Philly was healthy, rested and is the odds-on favorite to come out of the east this year. The Kings had no business winning that game on paper, but they did.

That Philly win was pretty special for a lot of reasons and was easily one of the most significant regular season wins this team has had in ages.
Not to mention we hadn't won in Philly since 2000 (of course we have played there much since then) but even still.

That game was huge. Reminded me again of how we can play with any team when we want to!

But we could still use a scoring LW. See if you can pick one up at the Grocery -T.

DIEHARD the King fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:46 PM
  #191
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
The problem is that typically your captain is either your best role player or one of your top three players overall. Brown is neither of those now. At the time he was named captain, he was one of our better role players, but now Matt Greene & Handzus are our best role players. At the time, Brown was also one of our top 3 or 4 overall players, but now he is not, with Johnson, Doughty, Kopitar, Williams, Quick and possibly Smyth all ahead of him in that department as well.

So when he received the captaincy, he fit the bill. One of our top three overall players and one of, if not our best role player. Now that the team has changed, he doesn't fit into either of those typically captain categories.
I'm confused...Brown isn't right for captain because he doesn't fit in your arbitrary box???

KingLB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:51 PM
  #192
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
For ****s sake, how mdny frigging times do I have to say typically? It seems no matter how much you hedge your comments with tags like 'typically' or 'usually' or whatever, everyone is still going to assume you said always and forever no matter what until the end of time.

If u bothered to read I said he doesn't fit into ur typical category of captains, not that he wasn't right for it. Oy vey.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:55 PM
  #193
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Thats easy:

The best defensive defenseman on the team. A leader by example and work ethic. The epitomy of a veteran role player.

Next question, please.
Ok, this is where I gotta stop everything! This is the exact definition of Dustin Brown. Brown is the most coachable player on the team...everything Murray wants Brown brings everyyyyyy game. Not only that but who is one of the players that leads to off season work outs in LA oh yea Brown....

Its like people can't find stuff to bash Brown so they make stuff up (not you in particular)....yesterday it was Brown has average speed .....today Brown is a 3rd liner, even though he is top60 in scoring (aka a first liner)....now we hear about how great all these other captains were for these great traits that Brown actually posses.

KingLB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:55 PM
  #194
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
Sorry for the little explosion. Just got frustrated having explained that one post in great detail in many ways only to have it boiled down incorrectly.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:56 PM
  #195
TonySCV
Moderator
One More Time
 
TonySCV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
For ****s sake, how mdny frigging times do I have to say typically?
Typically it's in the 3-4 range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Sorry for the little explosion. Just got frustrated having explained that one post in great detail in many ways only to have it boiled down incorrectly.
You're having a nasty case of the Mondays. "I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."

TonySCV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 07:58 PM
  #196
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
Lol. Tony is teh smarts. This Monday is definitely a tiresome one. BTW, don't recognize the quote. Where is it from?

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 08:00 PM
  #197
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,132
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
For ****s sake, how mdny frigging times do I have to say typically? It seems no matter how much you hedge your comments with tags like 'typically' or 'usually' or whatever, everyone is still going to assume you said always and forever no matter what until the end of time.

If u bothered to read I said he doesn't fit into ur typical category of captains, not that he wasn't right for it. Oy vey.
Then why say it?? If your gonna make a statement make it definitive instead of leaving an out in case you are wrong or aren't willing to make a stand...

"Kopitar might not lead us to a cup".....now in a few years no matter what happens I'm safe on this comment...But in reality I said nothing.

The way you worded it makes it seem like you are against Brown, I am for, so I'm gonna defend my stance. I could put "you might" before my statement if it will make you happier.

And just read your added post...I got no problem, I just wanna know where you stand...so I know what position you are arguing from.

KingLB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 08:04 PM
  #198
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Then why say it?? If your gonna make a statement make it definitive instead of leaving an out in case you are wrong or aren't willing to make a stand...

"Kopitar might not lead us to a cup".....now in a few years no matter what happens I'm safe on this comment...But in reality I said nothing.

The way you worded it makes it seem like you are against Brown, I am for, so I'm gonna defend my stance. I could put "you might" before my statement if it will make you happier.

And just read your added post...I got no problem, I just wanna know where you stand...so I know what position you are arguing from.
He's not TYPICALLY standing for anything at this point. In fact I think if he had it to do all over again, he'd remain seated!

DIEHARD the King fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 08:04 PM
  #199
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
So I shouldn't say anything unless I have a black and white view of it? Then I would rarely ever post aS I see very few things in the to be black and white.

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2011, 08:07 PM
  #200
JDM
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 9,968
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
He's not TYPICALLY standing for anything at this point. In fact I think if he had it to do all over again, he'd remain seated!
This post is particularly funny when I consider that today at work There was a big debate and even a poll on whether u sit or stand while wiping your ass.

Seriously...

JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.