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Trade Deadline Speculation 2 (Zipay: Prospect and a 2nd rounder in play for rental)

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Old
02-15-2011, 08:58 AM
  #26
bobbop
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
We have been hearing Karbele rumors for 2 years now. This guy has done nothing in Toronto in years,why do we want him?
Uhhh...he's on pace for (another) 50 point season. And he's acknowledged as one of the best power play QBs in NHL.

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02-15-2011, 08:59 AM
  #27
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In a somewhat weak draft? If you can get someone like Kaberle for a pick and a low level prospect? You do it. An established NHL player is almost always (and certainly in this case) more valuable than a draft pick.

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02-15-2011, 08:59 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Why? Most of 2nd rounders are not Dubinskis. Definitely not Kaberles.
That's exactly the reason you want to have more picks.

Edt: Also dangling a 2nd rounder on draft day could move us up in the first round.

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02-15-2011, 09:00 AM
  #29
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Trade a 2nd and 1st to move up in the draft.. I want a top 5 dammit!

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02-15-2011, 09:01 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
We have been hearing Karbele rumors for 2 years now. This guy has done nothing in Toronto in years,why do we want him? To be the new Whipping Boy?
I'm with you on that. While his assist's are definitely impressive, I've never watched a Leaf's game and thought, Wow, I wish we had Kaberle...

Plus, I have a feeling Kaberle is going to fetch more than the 2nd and prospect we're shopping. Especially if Fisher can get a 1st rounder and Versteeg a 1st + 3rd.

Granted, Versteeg is a guy who can put up some decent numbers, but I did not expect Fisher to pull that much back for Ottawa.

I have to imagine Kaberle will be one of the bigger-named D-men available, and Burke's going to use that to get as much in return as possible. I don't think the prospect and 2nd rounder may be enough to even get him...

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02-15-2011, 09:07 AM
  #31
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I can deal with giving up a 2nd rounder and maybe a 4th or 5 th in addition, but if Burke wants more, he should go a get it from another team.

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02-15-2011, 09:08 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
We have been hearing Karbele rumors for 2 years now. This guy has done nothing in Toronto in years,why do we want him? To be the new Whipping Boy?

Nothing? What are you basing that on? The guy has 46 power play points over the last two seasons. He has 85 point total in thje past two seasons. He currently would be 3rd on the Rangers in points behind Dubinsky and Gaborik.

The Rangers need PP help bad. He is a PP specialist.

If they do not overpay with anything more than a 2nd and a mid prospect, not a top prospect then I am totally ok with it. Before that happens though, this club should be sitting in a playoff position by the deadline. If they are on the outside looking in then no way should they do it.

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02-15-2011, 09:11 AM
  #33
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The reason Fisher and Versteeg can bring back first round draft picks is that they are not rentals. Fisher has two years to run on his contract and Versteeg has another year. Not unlike Wolski.

I suspect rental market will be cheap again this year much like last year. Draft choices are worth more in a salary capped world. One only needs to look at the NFL and how draft choices have appreciated in value since the salary cap was instituted.

I don't see a rental out there worthy of a first. What you are seeing right now is lots of posturing. Once teams figure it out, you'll see guys like Phillips, Kaberle, Kovalev etc. move for seconds and even lower.


Last edited by bobbop: 02-15-2011 at 09:21 AM.
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Old
02-15-2011, 09:13 AM
  #34
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Without using stats or the words 'puck mover', can someone tell me what makes Kaberle a good defenseman?

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02-15-2011, 09:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The reason Fisher and Versteeg can bring back first round draft picks is that they are not rentals. Fisher has two years to run on his contract and Versteeg has another year. Not unlike Wolski.

I suspect rental market will be cheap again this year much like last year. Draft choices are worth more in a salary capped world. One only needs to look at the NFL and how draft choices have appreciated in value since the salary cap was instituted.

I don't see arental out there worthy of a first. Once teams get that joke, you'll see guys like Phillips, Kaberle, Kovalev etc. move for seconds and even lower.
But Fisher has 2 overpaid years left.

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02-15-2011, 09:16 AM
  #36
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Why would people be against getting Kaberle? Especially if it's for a "low" price? The Rangers could definitely make some noise in the playoffs if the PP start working consistently. Kaberle is GREAT on the power-play and who knows, maybe he even wakes Gaborik up.

I've said it before but this team reminds me of 03-04 flames. One player over 50 points and a hot goaltender. But all the grit and heart in the world. And they came one game from winning the cup.

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02-15-2011, 09:16 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Without using stats or the words 'puck mover', can someone tell me what makes Kaberle a good defenseman?
Outlet passes
Smooth-skating
Great vision
Great PP QB
Logs a ton of minutes
Can play in all situations
Has scored 40+ points on basement teams for years

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02-15-2011, 09:16 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Without using stats or the words 'puck mover', can someone tell me what makes Kaberle a good defenseman?
236 points in 433 games since the lockout. Basically good for 1/2 a point a game plus. We haven't gotten that kind of offensive production consistently from a defenseman since Brian Leetch.


Kaberle is one of the top 10 PP defenseman in the league. And with guys like Girardi, Staal, and Sauer, we can deal with the fact he isn't a top pairing guy defensively.

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02-15-2011, 09:21 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
236 points in 433 games since the lockout. Basically good for 1/2 a point a game plus. We haven't gotten that kind of offensive production consistently from a defenseman since Brian Leetch.


Kaberle is one of the top 10 PP defenseman in the league. And with guys like Girardi, Staal, and Sauer, we can deal with the fact he isn't a top pairing guy defensively.
Nice stats.

His next contract is gonna be upwards of 5-6 million so do we want to "deal with the fact he isn't a top pairing guy defensively" at that money?

Or are you looking at it as a rental?

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02-15-2011, 09:22 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Nice stats.

His next contract is gonna be upwards of 5-6 million so do we want to "deal with the fact he isn't a top pairing guy defensively" at that money?

Or are you looking at it as a rental?
I don't think he will make that type of money. More along the lines of 4.5 million/year.

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Old
02-15-2011, 09:23 AM
  #41
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But Fisher has 2 overpaid years left.
Not in the opinion of many people. He's a Dubinsky/Callahan type player and that's the money they are looking at.

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02-15-2011, 09:29 AM
  #42
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I have little to no interest in signing Kaberle long term, or even past this season.

He is a LD, and we have Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto who one would hope, with our future-minded D will be the 3 moving forward.

Unless bringing in Kaberle boosts our PP to 18+% (unlikely) chances are he will be used merely as a rental/ experiment.

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02-15-2011, 09:29 AM
  #43
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Still not seeing the light on Kaberle. We are not built for a run in the PO's. We can't even ice a 1st line. To give up a 2nd rounder for a 2 month rental is too much, regardless of the benefits. It doesn't change the fact that we are not close to a cup. We have no need to sign Kaberle at years end at over 4M/yr when there is a shot at getting Richards. Rentals I feel are not warranted for this club and a rental(offensive defenseman) will not change the outcome of the PO picture, if there is one. I still got to go with the draft-even if it is weaker, so they say.

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02-15-2011, 09:32 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I don't think he will make that type of money. More along the lines of 4.5 million/year.
Im not sure about that considering what last years guys got, Martin and Gonchar in particular.

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02-15-2011, 09:45 AM
  #45
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Kaberle's numbers on the PP aren't that different than Redden's, at least before he came to NY.

A single player can't fix a power play strategy that's inherently flawed. We all know that Torts and Sullivan either aren't capable of, or aren't willing to, make a wholesale change to what goes on out on the ice with the man advantage, so I don't see how Kaberle has any value to this team.

If you're going to bolster the defense, do it with someone that plays their best WITHOUT the puck. That's what's lacking as you work your way down the depth chart on the blue line.

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Old
02-15-2011, 09:47 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Not in the opinion of many people. He's a Dubinsky/Callahan type player and that's the money they are looking at.
It should also be pointed out that acquiring Fisher provides real marketing value to the Preds that doesn't exist anywhere else in the league. They didn't just acquire Mike Fisher, they acquired Mr. Carrie Underwood. I know it sounds funny to those of us who are "pure" hockey fans, but to a team in that market, it makes a difference in terms of fan interest, media coverage and overall relevance - and that adds up to additional revenue dollars for the team.

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02-15-2011, 09:49 AM
  #47
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Still not seeing the light on Kaberle. We are not built for a run in the PO's. We can't even ice a 1st line. To give up a 2nd rounder for a 2 month rental is too much, regardless of the benefits. It doesn't change the fact that we are not close to a cup. We have no need to sign Kaberle at years end at over 4M/yr when there is a shot at getting Richards. Rentals I feel are not warranted for this club and a rental(offensive defenseman) will not change the outcome of the PO picture, if there is one. I still got to go with the draft-even if it is weaker, so they say.
Completely agreed. If we could get him for something ridiculous like Weise and a pair of fourths - sure, why the heck not? But even at the "modest" price of a 2nd and a 2nd tier prospect, I don't think it's the right move for this organization at this time.

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Old
02-15-2011, 09:54 AM
  #48
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It could be Kabs but a second rounder would not do it. It would take a first rounder plus a mid level prospect or player right now. Just look at what they got for Versteeg and since i live in T.O i kno the asking price will be even higher. I dont kno if its even worth it the way are team is made up this year. Kabs needs a team that plays a mroe puck possesion control game, he would have fit our team 3 years ago more than this team. Seriously if we want Kabs we could have kept Rozi as i watch Kabs a lot and the only difference i see is Kabs skating ability with the puck is def greater and is more smooth, with better passes. But Rozi Defensive abiltiies are def better and is no far off in the Offensive game.

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02-15-2011, 09:59 AM
  #49
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This season for the Leafs is done. Burke has to know that. They're in the cellar and don't have a pick, there's really no reason to compete. They either "rebuild" by taking a second and a decent prospect for Kaberle, Kabs get's overpayed for, or Kaberle walks for nothing and Burke's head is on a pike held up by the Toronto fanbase.

Also it's still ridiculous how some of you guys criminally underrate Kaberle. I'd sure as hell take him over a guy like Valentenko.

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02-15-2011, 10:02 AM
  #50
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Id rather keep both seconds and sign Pitkanen.

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