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I hope we get nobody at the trade deadline

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Old
02-15-2011, 04:45 PM
  #101
DeeMeck
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Just for perspective, which player would you want? Shouldn't be too hard to figure out these 2 players...stats are to date

1) 214gp 34g-49a-83p

2) 210gp 58g-78a-136p Calder finalist

Say what you want about intangibles of player 1...but a 50+ point difference in 2 and a half seasons is ALOT. Yes, player 2 is 2 years older than player 1
1 is Simmonds

2 is Versteeg

I really don't get all the hate for Versteeg. Versteeg also has 26 points in 39 playoff games.

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02-15-2011, 04:46 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
If you aren't willing to pay the price, somebody else will (and did). You'll be sitting here for a long time trying to get the perfect value. DL is going to have to bend over and take it if he wants to improve the team. There just isn't any other way he is going ot get it done. It is a sellers market and teams aren't going to give players away because they know that there aren't very many options out there. There isn't anything available via free agency this summer either. There is no way around it, DL is going to have to part with something valuable if he wants to fill that hole or add some scoring in some capacity. There is no way around it.
Exactly. It's not like players are knocking down Dean's door asking to get traded to L.A.

If Dean wants a player he will have to offer the highest bid.

Sitting on his hands and waiting for the right deal is a bad idea. It will NEVER happen because another team will always overpay and outbid Dean.

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02-15-2011, 04:49 PM
  #103
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
My answer to your question given that this will be a 90 point team with a young core? Continue to upgrade the roster and draft well. Don't panic by making stupid "quick fix" trades that are the trademark of all poorly run teams. Make sure that the young core players take ownership for their own success and continue to develop and stay focused.
I think this is about the time that DL needs to be aggressive in improving the roster. If they miss the playoffs or receive another early exit, I think they need to look close at who really are the key pieces to this team and start plugging holes. I guess it totally depends on what is available in the trade market because that is only way I think the team is going to improve. In which case, I fully expect to see some valuable prospects, picks and potentially roster players moved. What are the team's strengths and weaknesses? Strengths = goaltening and defense. Weakness = goal scoring. More specifically, top 6 wingers. The Kings stand to lose Justin Williams this offseason too as it stands now. There is nobody on the UFA market that is going to replace his production. The Kings almost HAVE to re-sign him.

The bottom line is, you say don't make quick fix trades, well, what if there is nothing out there? Are we going into next season with virtually the same roster and expecting different results? Are these young guys going to improve that much? Is that a fair expectation without help? These are all questions I think the answer is "no".

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02-15-2011, 04:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
But I do disagree that Versteeg and Ponikarovsky are interchangable.
Ponikarovsky fits TM's style far better than Versteeg, so no, they are not interchangeable. Lombardi got the better guy for Murray's team than Versteeg. I don't know what adding Versteeg would accomplish. The Kings' biggest need is not depth scoring, it is primary scoring. Versteeg does not address that need.

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02-15-2011, 04:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
Ponikarovsky fits TM's style far better than Versteeg, so no, they are not interchangeable. Lombardi got the better guy for Murray's team than Versteeg. I don't know what adding Versteeg would accomplish. The Kings' biggest need is not depth scoring, it is primary scoring. Versteeg does not address that need.
Versteeg would put up 20 goals on the left wing of the top line. Who in the Kings line up can or is going to do that? The answer is nobody. The guy is 24 years old too. Everyone keeps talking about how our players are going to keep getting better. We'll the same applies to Versteeg right?

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02-15-2011, 04:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I think this is about the time that DL needs to be aggressive in improving the roster. If they miss the playoffs or receive another early exit, I think they need to look close at who really are the key pieces to this team and start plugging holes. I guess it totally depends on what is available in the trade market because that is only way I think the team is going to improve. In which case, I fully expect to see some valuable prospects, picks and potentially roster players moved. What are the team's strengths and weaknesses? Strengths = goaltening and defense. Weakness = goal scoring. More specifically, top 6 wingers. The Kings stand to lose Justin Williams this offseason too as it stands now. There is nobody on the UFA market that is going to replace his production. The Kings almost HAVE to re-sign him.

The bottom line is, you say don't make quick fix trades, well, what if there is nothing out there? Are we going into next season with virtually the same roster and expecting different results? Are these young guys going to improve that much? Is that a fair expectation without help? These are all questions I think the answer is "no".
If there is nothing out there then there is nothing out there!

There are very few teams in the NHL today with an excess of 30 goal scorers. If they have them, they are likely looking for a roster player of the same caliber that fills a hole for them or a MAJOR prospect.

So, in order to get that type of scorer what bargaining chips do the Kings have? Schenn, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, and maybe Brown are about it. Are you willing to trade any of those players for a 30 goal scorer? And if you are, can you guarantee that the player you acquire will resign with the team when his next contract is up? If the answer to either question is "no" then stop complaining.

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02-15-2011, 05:01 PM
  #107
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The low 1st, Bergfors, and Cormier weren't MAJOR prospects, and that was for a 50-goal scorer.

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02-15-2011, 05:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
If there is nothing out there then there is nothing out there!

There are very few teams in the NHL today with an excess of 30 goal scorers. If they have them, they are likely looking for a roster player of the same caliber that fills a hole for them or a MAJOR prospect.

So, in order to get that type of scorer what bargaining chips do the Kings have? Schenn, Doughty, Johnson, Quick, and maybe Brown are about it. Are you willing to trade any of those players for a 30 goal scorer?
I wouldn't trade Doughty for anyone in league. Sure I'd trade him for Crosby but lets be realistic.

I'm willing to part with Schenn if he is included in a package that returns a legitimate 1st/2nd line center who is not older than 28 y/o. Otherwise, I wouldn't move him.

I'd move Brown without a hesitation depending on who is coming back.

I wouldn't move Quick. I'd move Bernier upon protest but it'd have to be a very valuable player.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Kings move future picks which is why I'd be a big fan of a Versteeg type deal. Sure it isn't the big hoorah everyone seems to be anticipating in the next year or so. But it does give you some additional scoring and it doesn't cost you any assets you've spent time and money developing. I also wouldn't be against Simmonds or Brown going for the right player. What I really have a hard time with is people putting such a high value on our draft picks for this year. First off, from all accounts the draft isn't all that talent laden. Secondly, the org hasn't invested anything into those players (time or money). Lastly, those players, if the ever make the NHL, it won't be for another 3-4 years at the earliest.

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02-15-2011, 05:12 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
The low 1st, Bergfors, and Cormier weren't MAJOR prospects, and that was for a 50-goal scorer.
it was for a potential rental as well with a HUGE resigning risk and price tag.

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02-15-2011, 05:14 PM
  #110
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First rounders this year are overvalued by some in this thread. It is looking pretty poor as far as top end talent goes for this years draft. LA has a pretty full stockpile of prospects. You can always grab a winger with a second, if a first gets a solid proven youngish player then pull the damn trigger and don't look back. This year's pick should absolutely be in play unless we are picking top 5.

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02-15-2011, 05:15 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I wouldn't trade Doughty for anyone in league. Sure I'd trade him for Crosby but lets be realistic.

I'm willing to part with Schenn if he is included in a package that returns a legitimate 1st/2nd line center who is not older than 28 y/o. Otherwise, I wouldn't move him.

I'd move Brown without a hesitation depending on who is coming back.

I wouldn't move Quick. I'd move Bernier upon protest but it'd have to be a very valuable player.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Kings move future picks which is why I'd be a big fan of a Versteeg type deal. Sure it isn't the big hoorah everyone seems to be anticipating in the next year or so. But it does give you some additional scoring and it doesn't cost you any assets you've spent time and money developing. I also wouldn't be against Simmonds or Brown going for the right player. What I really have a hard time with is people putting such a high value on our draft picks for this year. First off, from all accounts the draft isn't all that talent laden. Secondly, the org hasn't invested anything into those players (time or money). Lastly, those players, if the ever make the NHL, it won't be for another 3-4 years at the earliest.
Fair response but a couple of points.

Count up the players in the league that meet your criteria...there aren't many and they are all HIGHLY coveted.

If this year's draft isn't that exciting to you, what makes you think it is exciting to a GM who has the 30 goal scorer you want. There are no mysteries in the NHL amongst the GM's. Why would I trade a young signed 30 goal scorer to you for a risky draft pick in a bad year who MAY play for my team in 3-4 years?

I hate to burst your bubble with reality but those are the facts.

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02-15-2011, 05:17 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Versteeg would put up 20 goals on the left wing of the top line. Who in the Kings line up can or is going to do that? The answer is nobody. The guy is 24 years old too. Everyone keeps talking about how our players are going to keep getting better. We'll the same applies to Versteeg right?
If Poni played consistently on the first line, and got first line PP time, he'd pot 20 without a problem. Hell, Parse probably would have done the same if he didn't get hurt.

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02-15-2011, 05:17 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Knight of the Realm View Post
First rounders this year are overvalued by some in this thread. It is looking pretty poor as far as top end talent goes for this years draft. LA has a pretty full stockpile of prospects. You can always grab a winger with a second, if a first gets a solid proven youngish player then pull the damn trigger and don't look back. This year's pick should absolutely be in play unless we are picking top 5.
That is what I'm saying.

I'm sure there is a team out there that might move a legitimate top line winger for Brown, a D prospect (Muzzin, Voynov and Martinez) and the Kings' first rounder. I'd have no problem seeing that go down.

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02-15-2011, 05:18 PM
  #114
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Playoff teams aren't oving their 30-goal scorers.

Non-playoff teams typically only move rentals. The Penguins still have a pretty good cupboard despite making the move for Hossa. We have the kind of prospect depth to make that kind of move. Solid prospect, 1st rounder, and some fillers, which we have plenty of in guys like Lewis and Richardson.

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02-15-2011, 05:23 PM
  #115
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Fair response but a couple of points.

Count up the players in the league that meet your criteria...there aren't many and they are all HIGHLY coveted.

If this year's draft isn't that exciting to you, what makes you think it is exciting to a GM who has the 30 goal scorer you want. There are no mysteries in the NHL amongst the GM's. Why would I trade a young signed 30 goal scorer to you for a risky draft pick in a bad year who MAY play for my team in 3-4 years?

I hate to burst your bubble with reality but those are the facts.
You aren't bursting anyone's bubble. Like I said in my last post, I'd bet that Brown, a d prospect and the Kings' 1st could get a 30 goal scorer. It should.

Now I don't think the Kings SHOULD trade for Marian Gaborik but do you think the Rangers would accept that package if they are in fact looking to move Gaborik?

Why did Brian Burke just trade away a young guy he traded for this past summer? Who really knows wtf is going on in some of these guys' minds? The Kings traded up in a weak draft to pick Thomas ****ing Hickey.

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Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
If Poni played consistently on the first line, and got first line PP time, he'd pot 20 without a problem. Hell, Parse probably would have done the same if he didn't get hurt.
I'm sorry but if that were true, why isn't he up on that line? He has been replacable everywhere else in the line up. If TM though Poni could be scoring at that pace, he'd have him there. I completely disagree.

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02-15-2011, 05:25 PM
  #116
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We didn't trade up for Hickey...we were trying to trade down and get him later in the 1st round.

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02-15-2011, 05:33 PM
  #117
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We didn't trade up for Hickey...we were trying to trade down and get him later in the 1st round.
You're right.. got my wires crossed. I was thinking of Teubert.

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02-15-2011, 05:35 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
You aren't bursting anyone's bubble. Like I said in my last post, I'd bet that Brown, a d prospect and the Kings' 1st could get a 30 goal scorer. It should.

Now I don't think the Kings SHOULD trade for Marian Gaborik but do you think the Rangers would accept that package if they are in fact looking to move Gaborik?
Well, if I'm the Rangers I certainly do accept that proposal! I get a cap friendly 25-30 goal scorer who plays physical, a solid d prospect, and a 1st. I give up a $7.5 million china doll.

Now, if I'm the Kings I've got Gaborik to fill a hole at LW but now I've got a major hole at RW and no d prospect or 1st either! And God forbid that my new china doll LW gets hurt again (as he certainly will).

How have I improved the Kings with that deal????

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02-15-2011, 05:36 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post

I'm sorry but if that were true, why isn't he up on that line? He has been replacable everywhere else in the line up. If TM though Poni could be scoring at that pace, he'd have him there. I completely disagree.
WHY?? Are you seriously asking that question or did you forget who is coaching? Prior to this season, the guy scored 21 - 21 (71 games) - 18 (66 games) - 23 - 21. Much of that time he was not on the first line. Are you telling me that after scoring 20+ every season in the last five except when he lost 16 games to injury, he suddenly lost the ability to score goals, at the age of 30? Really, that's the argument you're making?

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02-15-2011, 05:44 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Well, if I'm the Rangers I certainly do accept that proposal! I get a cap friendly 25-30 goal scorer who plays physical, a solid d prospect, and a 1st. I give up a $7.5 million china doll.

Now, if I'm the Kings I've got Gaborik to fill a hole at LW but now I've got a major hole at RW and no d prospect or 1st either! And God forbid that my new china doll LW gets hurt again (as he certainly will).

How have I improved the Kings with that deal????
Lets just assume for arguments sake that Gaborik doesn't have serious health issues. Lets pretend he is a different player with similar stats but a bit healthier. A hypothetical if you will..

You lose a RW but as we're seeing right now, Dustin Brown is redundant with Wayne Simmonds in the line up. Wayne does everything Brown does and more.. and better. I have no question he'd be putting up the same numbers as Brown if he was getting the minutes Brown does.

The Kings have a zilliion D prospects and at some point in the near future, they are going to be losing these guys for nothing. You can't hold onto them all. Espeically as the Kings pass through more drafts and acquire more prospects.

Finally, the 1st rounder is of no consequence. Lets hope the pick is in the 20's. What have the Kings lost exactly? A shot in the dark for 5 years down the road? I mean really.. if we are going to hold onto those in hopes they'l be contributing when the Kings finally are contenders, we're really grasping at straws.

In my eyes, a move like that deals from a position of strength to add where the Kings are weak.

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02-15-2011, 05:48 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
The Kings could use Versteeg's goals.
Quote:
He would be better than any option the Kings have used on the top line LW spot all year.
I think at bare minimum, he would have given continuity to the line up down the stretch and dealing a 1st and 3rd would not have crippled the Kings in the long run.
Based on what? We've tried almost everyone on the top line, and what about Versteeg or his production makes you think he'd have done any better?

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02-15-2011, 05:49 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
Lets just assume for arguments sake that Gaborik doesn't have serious health issues. Lets pretend he is a different player with similar stats but a bit healthier. A hypothetical if you will..

You lose a RW but as we're seeing right now, Dustin Brown is redundant with Wayne Simmonds in the line up. Wayne does everything Brown does and more.. and better. I have no question he'd be putting up the same numbers as Brown if he was getting the minutes Brown does.

The Kings have a zilliion D prospects and at some point in the near future, they are going to be losing these guys for nothing. You can't hold onto them all. Espeically as the Kings pass through more drafts and acquire more prospects.

Finally, the 1st rounder is of no consequence. Lets hope the pick is in the 20's. What have the Kings lost exactly? A shot in the dark for 5 years down the road? I mean really.. if we are going to hold onto those in hopes they'l be contributing when the Kings finally are contenders, we're really grasping at straws.

In my eyes, a move like that deals from a position of strength to add where the Kings are weak.
Fine, so in a parallel universe where (1) Gaborik is not a china doll and (2) Simmonds is as good as Brown and (3) our d prospects are redundant because Scuderi, Green, and Mitchell have signed lifetime contracts, and (4) our 1st rounder is already a bust, then I totally agree with you.

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02-15-2011, 05:50 PM
  #123
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Not worth making a trade unless it's a legit 1st liner. We have enough marginal 2nd liners as is.

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02-15-2011, 05:51 PM
  #124
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Based on what? We've tried almost everyone on the top line, and what about Versteeg or his production makes you think he'd have done any better?
Ironically, Toronto is just as goal starved as the Kings and they didn't think enough of Versteeg to keep him around...interesting....I wonder why.

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02-15-2011, 05:53 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
WHY?? Are you seriously asking that question or did you forget who is coaching? Prior to this season, the guy scored 21 - 21 (71 games) - 18 (66 games) - 23 - 21. Much of that time he was not on the first line. Are you telling me that after scoring 20+ every season in the last five except when he lost 16 games to injury, he suddenly lost the ability to score goals, at the age of 30? Really, that's the argument you're making?
Maybe he would pot 20 if he was given time there the whole season? I really don't care to debate that. Il don't see him and Versteeg as interchangable players. Again, Versteeg has 3 20 goal seasons before Ponikarovsky had one. Ponikarovsky =/= Versteeg and that was the only point I was trying to make. There ain't no upside to Ponikarovsky and while he hasn't been given many chances, he has played on the top line and didn't perform all that well.

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