When does Moller get a chance? I've never been much of a fan of his, but he's averaging about a point-per-game in the AHL right now. I'd rather give him a shot then acquire another mediocre 2nd/3rd liner.
We're going in circles. I think I'm done with this. I concede. You guys are right, I'm wrong. Stay the course. God forbid they take a risk to improve the team.
There is no right or wrong. We are all in this together, it's just a matter of a difference of opinion. You want to improve the team, and are positive about our future, and that's something we can all agree on. It's just a matter of how we improve that we differ on.
When does Moller get a chance? I've never been much of a fan of his, but he's averaging about a point-per-game in the AHL right now. I'd rather give him a shot then acquire another mediocre 2nd/3rd liner.
I would like to see this as well. That being said, the next time Oscar shows up in LA he needs to have a completely different mindset. He needs to generate some offense whether he is skating on the 1st line or the 4th line, all while being responsible in his own zone.
Sorry Oscar, but that is what it takes to be a forward on a TM-coached team.
I figured the age thing would come into play.....I should have addressed it earlier.
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Versteeg will still be a UFA before any of that happens
, just like Demitra, regardless of age.
Toronto got 2 decent picks for a guy. Philly got a guy who will bump a lesser player off the depth chart, and he has excelled in the playoffs.
win-win
I guess, but if that's the case, isn't like 80 per cent of the team a UFA in the next three years? They have to keep some guys around, why not start with a 24 year old winger on a team with very little scoring depth?
You can't seriously be bringing up point projections for guys who have played 15 and 5 games this season. Bottom line is Versteeg would have improved LA and all this talk about him being a 3rd liner in CHIC is like calling Jordan Staal a 3rd line center! You can argue his trade worth, but IMO he is an upgrade over LA's current LW's in terms of goal scoring and offensive play.
I balanced Parse's by showing his stats from last year, and for Sturm he's outperformed Versteeg in the past.
Based on his 3 20 goal seasons. What have the Kings tried on the top line? Loktionov, Dwight King, Richardson, Ponikarovsky, Clifford... maybe you disagree but I think Versteeg is better than all those options. That is just my opinion. Apparently, I'm in the minority.
I think you are not the minority.
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf
1) You are missing the point. Erase Gaborik's name and insert any 30 goal scorer. I just used Gaborik as an example because of the rumors about the Rangers getting rid of him. That is why I said hypothetical...
2) Simmonds can do what Brown can do. I guess we'll just have to disagree on that. I fully expect to see one or the other traded at some point. You have to give to get and those are a couple of our more valuable trading pieces.
3) I never said a damn thing about our prospects making Scuderi, Greene and Mitchell being redundant. We have a stocked cupboard and eventually those guys are going to have to be moved to make room for new guys. Or are you under the idea that the Kings will hold onto all of them until they know if they've panned out or not?
4) Again, it has nothing to do with being a bust. The Kings could pick the next Datsyuk in the draft. You aren't going to know for 3-4 years at the earliest and probably closer to 5. I'd sure the Kings are contending for a Cup by then but I guess you're willing to wait an eternity.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Toronto is not in the same position as the Kings. They are abottom dweller not expected to make the playoffs. They also have a GM that is a tad erratic.
A classic understatement.
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Originally Posted by kingsfan
I think we need to resign Williams as well, but we won't be entering with the same roster. Schenn and Loktionov for sure should be making the team full time, and any time you can ad players of those abilities it will improve the play of the wingers they are with. If we resign Williams, add Schenn and Loktionov and maybe Mollar as well, we are increasing our offense from within.
We can also add a guy like Vertseeg at the draft at a likely much better cost, the draft is when a lot of offensive talent is available for trade, see past draft day deals for reference.
How many spots do you think are going to open up if we re-sign JW?
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf
^ Well i guess Kopitar is just a pain in the ass to play with. Nobody seems to fit..
We're going in circles. I think I'm done with this. I concede. You guys are right, I'm wrong. Stay the course. God forbid they take a risk to improve the team.
I personally hope the GM has some testes and is prepared to take this team to the next level next season. I sure as hell hope we don't read things like "something will come up" or "the kids need to get better". I'm not advocating blowing the ship up or selling the farm or whatever other catchphrase you'd like, I just want the team to be better and I think hoarding your prospects/picks is a poor strategy. Again, I'm not saying get rid of them for the sake of making a move. I'm just saying we got plenty of assets to move that are replacable in the long term and the team needs help. Everyone knows that. There is no question this team needs help scoring and that ain't happening from within or UFA. Where does that leave us? Trades. The GM can either pony up or we'll be going into next season with largely the same roster quite possibly missing key vets with rookies as their replacement. That doesn't scream incremental improvement to me.
Patience, my friend. We need to let everything just develop and ripen from within The cost of UFA's and trades is too and too risky. Better we wait and let everyone else gamble on winning. Its like my grnadmother used to say: "Slow and steady wins the race" She died in a fire!
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf
Trying to understand what Brian Burke is thinking is a waste of time. I thought they were rebuilding while staying competitive? Does trading Versteeg for draft picks suggest that? I don't think even Brian Burke knows what he is trying to do.
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!
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Originally Posted by kingsfan
CURRENT 50 goal scorer, or maybe we should ask about Mike Modano if he gets healthy before the trade deadline too?
I just checked the stats, and under your interpretation of CURRENT (as in NOW), there are no 50 goal scorers. But I'd take Milan Hejduk in a heart beat, for a rental price, and that aint a first round pick. Now would Colorado deal him here? Doubtful
I guess, but if that's the case, isn't like 80 per cent of the team a UFA in the next three years? They have to keep some guys around, why not start with a 24 year old winger on a team with very little scoring depth?
Who really knows? I mean the guy traded two first round picks for a winger. If he was smart, he'd start shipping off all those UFA's over the next few years and start from scratch. Trading 2 first round picks basically set him back 2 years in his rebuild.
I balanced Parse's by showing his stats from last year, and for Sturm he's outperformed Versteeg in the past.
This year and last year Parse has numbers that project to 15G-20A-35PTS over an 82 game schedule. As for Sturm I predicted last yr he would end up a King but coming off an injury he has not been the same player and is an UFA at yrs end. Though i fully expect Lombardi to sign him to a one year deal at around $2M to prove himself again.
Versteeg fully fits into LA's rebuild as he is young, under contract and played in the playoffs AND WHL which Lombardi loves LOL!
I would like to see this as well. That being said, the next time Oscar shows up in LA he needs to have a completely different mindset. He needs to generate some offense whether he is skating on the 1st line or the 4th line, all while being responsible in his own zone.
Sorry Oscar, but that is what it takes to be a forward on a TM-coached team.
I don't think his mind set was ever in question. Oscar is the type whose work ethic and attitude you never have to worry about. He's gonna work his ass off, and do what he's told. It's just a matter of how developed his game is. I think he's getting close.
I guess, but if that's the case, isn't like 80 per cent of the team a UFA in the next three years? They have to keep some guys around, why not start with a 24 year old winger on a team with very little scoring depth?
never mind...you obviously would rather dream stuff up than have a discussion.
How many spots do you think are going to open up if we re-sign JW?
A few. I doubt Zeus comes back, or Poni or Sturm, so those three for sure. Maybe more if we trade someone away.
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I just checked the stats, and under your interpretation of CURRENT (as in NOW), there are no 50 goal scorers. But I'd take Milan Hejduk in a heart beat, for a rental price, and that aint a first round pick. Now would Colorado deal him here? Doubtful
Yeah, exactly. If you look back in the thread when I mentioned about 50 goal scorers, it was in reply to someone's post about the cost of renting Kovalchuk last year. Obviously Hejduk ain't that. Would I give up a 2nd and a second-tier prospect/pick for Hejduk? Likely, but not the 1st and two prospects or whatever it was NJ gave to rent Kovalchuk for Hejduk.
never mind...you obviously would rather dream stuff up than have a discussion.
What am I dreaming up? You said they wouldn't keep him due to UFA status. I said you need to keep some guys around, and given his age and need in TO, you'd think he'd fit in well to keep long-term.
When does Moller get a chance? I've never been much of a fan of his, but he's averaging about a point-per-game in the AHL right now. I'd rather give him a shot then acquire another mediocre 2nd/3rd liner.
I was actually pissed about this earlier in the season. He is performing in the AHL, was called up here and performed well yet again, was sent back down and continues to perform well, yet we still see the likes of Handzus playing on Kopitar's wing. I like how well we are performing, but as soon as these lines go south as they are supposed to (remember we have had trouble scoring, even throughout this superb road trip, only one goal against the Pens, one goal till the third period against the Caps, one goal against Philly...). If we can't score more than a goal, we are going to fall on our faces and start losing, and we need to be looking at real solutions for that spot. If Sturm can't perform, we need to bring up some AHL performers and see where they stand or pull the trigger on that trade.
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"It has not been a good day. I lost my glasses early this morning and I had to go buy a pair of 79 dollar reading glasses today. 79 bucks. You can literally get them at Costco, three-for-20." - Darryl Sutter's response to going up 2-0 in the series.
So if right now Lou offered Dean is signed Parise for Schenn, Bernier, and Voynov you wouldn't want him to do it?
I'm only against most of the proposed deals because they're for players that wont make a difference (Versteeg, Booth ect). But if we can get a legit young top line talent, that improves the team now, and in the future, then I'm all for it.
Your answer is in the last paragraph of my response. Its a rare thing when legitimate star players are dealt and each situation is different. If we had to pay Bernier, Voynov and Schenn for Parise then I would have to think long and hard about it. He is coming off an injury that was very very extensive and is what is commonly referred to as a whoa boy in that it tends to slow a player down and make them allot more cautious. It doesn't mean that he won't go on to be his usual self but the knee isn't like the elbow and there haven't been really any Tommy John success stories in the NHL regarding such serious knee injuries that also don't involve allot of difficulties as well.
But lets make the player say Malkin instead of Parise even then I would have to think long and hard before considering such a deal. Malkin is a generational talent or close to it but has also been seriously injured so it isn't a no brainer also, if the cost is that high then I would have to consider what moving those pieces would do to impact our overall down the line prospects. In a case like Parise and or Malkin's I would like make the deal (even though I know that it would likely be a deal that would include at least one key roster player) but it would take allot of thought.
I would like to see this as well. That being said, the next time Oscar shows up in LA he needs to have a completely different mindset. He needs to generate some offense whether he is skating on the 1st line or the 4th line, all while being responsible in his own zone.
Sorry Oscar, but that is what it takes to be a forward on a TM-coached team.
... If Moller is out there on the fourth line with, say, Lewis and Westgarth - it would be hilariously ridiculous to ask him to generate offense. Moller isn't Sidney Crosby; he's not going to be able to cover for a couple hacks and still put points on the board. Hell, Kopitar has struggled with a problem similar to that all season long.
If Moller managed to stay on the plus side of the +/- ledger while playing on the fourth line, that in itself would be a minor miracle.
The cost of UFA's and trades is too and too risky. Better we wait and let everyone else gamble on winning. Its like my grnadmother used to say: "Slow and steady wins the race" She died in a fire!
