HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Leino - Is this Guy Going to get Re-signed?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-27-2010, 05:14 PM
  #76
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 40,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
What's wrong with Coburn's contract?
I think it's cap hit is about 250k too much right now. If he keeps up what he's doing he'll grow into it, but based on the regular season last year...ew.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2010, 06:08 PM
  #77
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think it's cap hit is about 250k too much right now. If he keeps up what he's doing he'll grow into it, but based on the regular season last year...ew.
FWIW; Coburn's contract is on a scale and his salary is actually $200K less than his Cap hit... and next season he will be paid $200K above the Cap.

So what you said goes along the lines of what Homer signed him for this season... Over the course of his current contract Coburn will average $3.2M. Due to Current CBA procedures in Cap calculation he is a Cap liability for $200K higher than what Homer has said he's worth... and is paying him... and next season he will be paid $3.4M and be an asset of $200K Cap to spend.

So if what you say is correct and how Homer saw his production worth is correct Coburn will be doing what the Flyers want from him... and what he signed for.

So, with that information and what you posted, do you feel any better with Coburn's contract and Cap hit?... Or do you still feel his contract was too high over its course?


... I like the escalating contracts if projected correctly because they pay the cash in the manner of how it is earned -- again... if done correctly -- But that said, I also realize that they are often handed out to entice a player to sign here by giving upfront cash... In Coburn's case with the short-term contract though, I think it was a contract that allows him to progress and be compensated in that manner.

EDIT: And of course the escalated contracts ease the Cap hit in some years... which is good for the Flyers... and good if Cap limits rise and salaries follow on longer term deals.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 12-27-2010 at 06:15 PM.
Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2010, 06:14 PM
  #78
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 40,719
vCash: 500
That makes me feel better. But it fails to justify Shelley and Leighton's contracts. I see no real reason why Leighton should be paid more than 1 mil.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2010, 06:24 PM
  #79
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think it's cap hit is about 250k too much right now. If he keeps up what he's doing he'll grow into it, but based on the regular season last year...ew.
I believe he has found his stride with Kimmo again and is using his size and skate speed to his advantage more... IMO he has more of an edge and has become the steady D-man that we all saw when he came here.

I'm really loving the D-pairings and the maturation of Coburn and Carle... and Meszaros is way better than I expected... while OD is as steady as we could have asked for. Pronger and Kimmo are Pronger and Kimmo; what more need I say?

I have no idea what to expect fro Walker... and it appears that they may be able to use Bart properly as the 6th D-man.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2010, 06:35 PM
  #80
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
That makes me feel better. But it fails to justify Shelley and Leighton's contracts. I see no real reason why Leighton should be paid more than 1 mil.
Leighten's at $1.5M and $1.6M... Not much for a starter who is not a true #1... But Bob is $900K plus bonuses and Boosh is $925K... Personally I think Boosh could play as well as Leights, but I must admit that Leights had a nice run for the Regular Season and the Postseason up until he shat the bed in the finals... Still for two goalies the total cost is well below the NHL average I'd think... adding Bob was totally unexpected... and if Leighton would have not been hurt and played well his contract wouldn't be awful.


I have nothing to justify or even explain Shelley ... other than maybe... for some reason Goons in the East have become a desired quantity and the GMs feel they have to have one and are overpaying for them. I think it sucks and would have rather given the money to Asham.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2010, 06:43 PM
  #81
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 40,719
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Leighten's at $1.5M and $1.6M... Not much for a starter who is not a true #1... But Bob is $900K plus bonuses and Boosh is $925K... Personally I think Boosh could play as well as Leights, but I must admit that Leights had a nice run for the Regular Season and the Postseason up until he shat the bed in the finals... Still for two goalies the total cost is well below the NHL average I'd think... adding Bob was totally unexpected... and if Leighton would have not been hurt and played well his contract wouldn't be awful.


I have nothing to justify or even explain Shelley ... other than maybe... for some reason Goons in the East have become a desired quantity and the GMs feel they have to have one and are overpaying for them. I think it sucks and would have rather given the money to Asham.
Yeah, letting Asham go for Shelley is baffling. However, I just can't find a way to justify paying Leighton more than a million. I'd love to get that 550k of cap space back as a cushion or Leino fodder.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2010, 07:02 PM
  #82
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,418
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, letting Asham go for Shelley is baffling. However, I just can't find a way to justify paying Leighton more than a million. I'd love to get that 550k of cap space back as a cushion or Leino fodder.
Can't argue, I'd love him at a million... but it's possible $1M couldn't get it done... and since Homer wasn't going the more expensive goalie route, which would have taken much more than the amount he signed him for, and the available options for that range goalies were not any better than what he did... just a thought... He certainly knew what he was getting for that money.

I wonder if he would have acted differently had he any hint that Bob would jump right in and he and Boosh would do as well as they have as a team. I haven't discounted the thought that he may just move Leights and go with Boosh and the Kid... I'd even consider that for another year past this if it works out this season. I honestly think that something has to give, and Boosh is stating a great case for it not being him that goes. That said, the best insurance is to demote Bob who can be recalled whenever needed.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2010, 03:31 AM
  #83
Andrew Knoll
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Andrew Knoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,355
vCash: 500
it's gonna take some creative maneuvers, buy outs and/or salary burials.

i foresee a short term deal to let things get sorted out. he's been too steady to let walk without a fight and there are some dead weight salaries in the organization.

Andrew Knoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2010, 02:09 PM
  #84
rban*
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Or like Coburn, Leighton, Shelley (who knows why), and those are just the guys currently on the team.
Well, if the likes of Giroux, Pronger, Richards, Carter are NOT being overpaid, while Leighton and Shelley are .... that means the overall amount of overpayment is not very high .... cuz Leighton and Shelley and these guys are lower in the depth chart and making less money on average....

You know what I'm saying? It hurts a team if their top players are being overpaid rather than their lesser players.

Like, if a guy is worth 5 mil/yr and you're paying him 6-7 mil, that accounts for 1-2 mil of overpayment....

Whereas if someone should really be paid 1 mil but u've got him at 1.2 or 1.3 mil.... you can sorta say
'meh, a 200,000 overpayment....in the grand scheme of things, with a 57 million dollar budget, does 200k really make a huge difference'....

<And yes I know a whole bunch of 200-300 k overpayments can add up .. every penny counts in a cap world etc etc ... but still ...>

I'm just glad Philly isnt making big overpayments on major pieces of the team, like the Laughs with Phaneuf ... in comparison the Philly overpayments look somewhat trivial, like a 4th line guy somewhere that's getting 200k too much ....

rban* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2010, 02:26 PM
  #85
agrudez*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 2,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
Well, if the likes of Giroux, Pronger, Richards, Carter are NOT being overpaid, while Leighton and Shelley are .... that means the overall amount of overpayment is not very high .... cuz Leighton and Shelley and these guys are lower in the depth chart and making less money on average....

You know what I'm saying? It hurts a team if their top players are being overpaid rather than their lesser players.

Like, if a guy is worth 5 mil/yr and you're paying him 6-7 mil, that accounts for 1-2 mil of overpayment....

Whereas if someone should really be paid 1 mil but u've got him at 1.2 or 1.3 mil.... you can sorta say
'meh, a 200,000 overpayment....in the grand scheme of things, with a 57 million dollar budget, does 200k really make a huge difference'....

<And yes I know a whole bunch of 200-300 k overpayments can add up .. every penny counts in a cap world etc etc ... but still ...>

I'm just glad Philly isnt making big overpayments on major pieces of the team, like the Laughs with Phaneuf ... in comparison the Philly overpayments look somewhat trivial, like a 4th line guy somewhere that's getting 200k too much ....
Timonen and Briere both got about 1-1.5M than they were worth because Philly was a tough sell to FAs after the season we had just had. Hartnell also makes at least half a mil more than he should. Coburn got half a mil more than his play before the contract deserved (got paid on potential). Players we traded for like Carle and Mesz get paid 0.5-1M more than they should.

The over-expenditures add up pretty quick, imo, and are only compounded by signings like Shelley and Leighton (and ones like Lupul before that).

agrudez* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 08:27 AM
  #86
Betts11
Registered User
 
Betts11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cherry hill,NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 131
vCash: 500
After acquiring Versteeg is Leino going to be resigned? Looking at the roster right now and the cap space its impossible. Are they gonna move some people? Or is he just gonna be traded?

Betts11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 08:30 AM
  #87
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Depends on how much the cap goes up, and whether Holmgren wants to deal a D man I guess

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 08:31 AM
  #88
JagerPuck
Registered User
 
JagerPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: the 215
Country: United States
Posts: 2,588
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JagerPuck
I dont know as much as I want it to happen, I for some reason, dont see it happening.

JagerPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 08:48 AM
  #89
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betts11 View Post
After acquiring Versteeg is Leino going to be resigned? Looking at the roster right now and the cap space its impossible. Are they gonna move some people? Or is he just gonna be traded?
People have been telling us it's impossible for years.

They said that Briere would be the biggest albatross in the NHL.

They said locking up Richards at a reasonable price would be impossible.

They said acquiring another big name defenseman would be impossible.

They said that hanging onto both Carter and Giroux would be impossible.

They said that acquiring another multi-million dollar contract at the deadline without dropping roster assets would be impossible.

They've been saying all this nonsense about impossibilities and how every year is the year the Flyers implode their assets and how Holmgren is running this ship aground...

Has it happened yet?

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 09:00 AM
  #90
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
It's definitely not impossible.

UFAs:
Zherdev
O'Donnell
Boucher
Leino

RFAs:
Powe
Nodl
Carcillo

Zherdev and Carcillo go for sure IMO. Shelley could always be waived. That frees up some cap space. However you have a large Giroux raise coming into effect, a small Carter raise, and possibly small raises for Powe, Nodl, Boucher, and OD if he wants to come back. A healthy cap increase would certainly help.

If Leino has a reasonable asking price, he'll be back I think.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 09:03 AM
  #91
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Walker and Leighton could be problems too

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 09:04 AM
  #92
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Walker and Leighton could be problems too
Not in the AHL they can't be.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 09:08 AM
  #93
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Yes but if Holmgren does he did with both Jones and Gauthier, he will try and get them in the NHL somewhere.

Leighton could easily be our default backup to Bob next year as he is already signed. Not saying I like that, but I think it is very likely. Plus Lappy's 1.15 will have to be LTIR'd again which sucks

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 09:45 AM
  #94
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
This is what we will have to deal with in the offseaon, assuming cap goes up 3mil.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Blair Betts ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
/ Matt Walker ($1.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,669,155; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $1,730,845

That is a lot of waiving/dealing to do.

It is possible we resign Leino, but he may go the way of Kunble.

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 10:04 AM
  #95
i am dave
Registered User
 
i am dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Corner of 1st & 1st
Country: United States
Posts: 2,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Walker and Leighton could be problems too
Leighton will be on an expiring contract, and won't have to pass recall waivers in the summer, so he might have trade value. Walker will be dead weight for the duration unless someone REALLY needs a bad defenseman.

i am dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 10:08 AM
  #96
SeanVT395
It's Not Even Close
 
SeanVT395's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 3,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
This is what we will have to deal with in the offseaon, assuming cap goes up 3mil.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Jeff Carter ($5.272m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Kris Versteeg ($3.083m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Blair Betts ($0.700m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
/ Matt Walker ($1.700m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $62,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,669,155; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $1,730,845

That is a lot of waiving/dealing to do.

It is possible we resign Leino, but he may go the way of Kunble.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but shouldn't Walker and Leighton not count towards the cap? And if Lappy doesn't come back can't he just stay on LTIR (because retiring would bring his cap hit back) or would that be cap circumvention?

SeanVT395 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 10:09 AM
  #97
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 11,056
vCash: 500
Latest....there is a real chance he is lost if in the offseason he gets a better offer which is very possible. We shall see but the Versteeg addition did complicate things. We'll see who gets unloaded between now and the offseason as well. He can get signed but it might be dicey...

Quote:
No deal for Leino


One repercussion of the Flyers' trade for Versteeg - besides Nik Zherdev and Jody Shelley sitting out last night - is that a contract extension for Ville Leino will officially have to wait until the offseason, when a new salary-cap scale is revealed.

"With our tagging space, we'll probably have a little difficulty signing him," Holmgren said on XM Radio's "NHL Live" yesterday.

The Flyers' tagging-rule dilemma - which limits next year's salary commitments to the amount of this year's salary cap - was first reported by the Daily News in November. Through agent Bill Zito, it is believed Leino is expecting a deal somewhere in the $3 million neighborhood.

Leino, who has 13 goals and 26 assists, is in the final year of a deal that pays him $800,000 this season. With Versteeg, the Flyers have $57.4 million tied up for next season and the maximum amount available to spend is currently $59.4 million, though that is expected to go up by about $3 million in the summer.



Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1E8Pk8Bo8
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 10:15 AM
  #98
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanVT395 View Post
Correct me if i'm wrong, but shouldn't Walker and Leighton not count towards the cap? And if Lappy doesn't come back can't he just stay on LTIR (because retiring would bring his cap hit back) or would that be cap circumvention?
In the Off season Leighton and Walker are automatically put back up on the Flyers NHL roster. again. So Holmgren would have to waive or trade them, or someone else pretty early on in the offseaon.


Lappy will have to placed on LTIR, and who knows maybe Lappy will try and make a comeback?

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 10:23 AM
  #99
might2mash
Post-apocalyptic
 
might2mash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Bend
Country: United States
Posts: 4,616
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to might2mash
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
In the Off season Leighton and Walker are automatically put back up on the Flyers NHL roster. again. So Holmgren would have to waive or trade them, or someone else pretty early on in the offseaon.


Lappy will have to placed on LTIR, and who knows maybe Lappy will try and make a comeback?
Incorrect. You can go over the cap by as much as 10% in the off-season. That will be our limiting factor until they can be sent down.

might2mash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-16-2011, 10:33 AM
  #100
KimiFerrari
Messi Is God
 
KimiFerrari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal, Qc
Country: Argentina
Posts: 3,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Incorrect. You can go over the cap by as much as 10% in the off-season. That will be our limiting factor until they can be sent down.
As some people have mentioned in other threads, that 10% only happens after July 1st. Which hopefully is correct info.

So unless you consider July 1st early in the offseaon, which you might, but in the case considering Leino, then it is probably too late.

KimiFerrari is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.