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Leino - Is this Guy Going to get Re-signed?

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Old
02-16-2011, 09:35 AM
  #101
Jester
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
People have been telling us it's impossible for years.

They said that Briere would be the biggest albatross in the NHL.
It HAS been a problem, and likely will be a problem again in the future.

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They said locking up Richards at a reasonable price would be impossible.
No they didn't. We had a ton of cap space back then... the concern was Carter as a RFA after that. It's one thing to be defensive of the job Holmgren has done, but you're making **** up here.

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They said acquiring another big name defenseman would be impossible.
No they didn't. I'm an arch salary-cap hawk and I was arguing for a year in advance that we needed to do this (and willing to spend more in cap hit than we ultimately did for Pronger).

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They said that hanging onto both Carter and Giroux would be impossible.
No one said that. The path to holding onto both them was always obvious: Gagne was done as a Flyer after his current contract expired.

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They said that acquiring another multi-million dollar contract at the deadline without dropping roster assets would be impossible.
We waived TWO roster players to create the space for Versteeg's contract. Two players that never should have been on the team in the first place, but that's another matter.

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They've been saying all this nonsense about impossibilities and how every year is the year the Flyers implode their assets and how Holmgren is running this ship aground...

Has it happened yet?
Look at the Phantoms. The time is coming when the bank is going to be asking for the Flyers to pay up.

You certainly have a point that creative (and risky) GMing by Holmgren is working out right now, but in the process you just flat out lied about these supposed "impossible" claims in order to get to your point. The Richards one is particularly hilarious. You can at least attempt to be a bit more intellectually honest in making your point. I don't know if that's because you are too young to have an accurate memory of 4 years ago, or because you're so incredibly defensive of Homer that you feel the need to create paper tigers in order to make him look better.

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02-16-2011, 09:37 AM
  #102
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http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm

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In addition, from July 1 to the last day of training camp, teams may exceed the Upper Limit by no more than 10%. For 2008-09, the absolute highest teams can go during the offseason (from July 1 to the end of training camp) is $62.37 million. Players who finished the prior season on LTIR are excluded for the purpose of offseason calculations.

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02-16-2011, 09:38 AM
  #103
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Remember, Leighton, Walker, and Lappy will all count towards our cap space this summer unless they are moved to another organization.

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02-16-2011, 09:39 AM
  #104
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I am fine with not signing him now, I just don't know if he is the type of player to commit more than 3 mill per year ??

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02-16-2011, 09:40 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I am fine with not signing him now, I just don't know if he is the type of player to commit more than 3 mill per year ??
I agree, he's a nice player... but I could live without him, especially at a 3+ number. That being said, it isn't like anyone on the Phantoms has a shot to step in and fill his role... so it's either Leino or another free agent... or a trade (and we're running rather low on crap to trade).

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02-16-2011, 09:41 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Remember, Leighton, Walker, and Lappy will all count towards our cap space this summer unless they are moved to another organization.
I am unsure about Lappy.

In my qoute from before it states;

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Players who finished the prior season on LTIR are excluded for the purpose of offseason calculations.
So he very well might not count.

Edit: At least towards the upper limit.

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02-16-2011, 09:44 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I am unsure about Lappy.

In my qoute from before it states;



So he very well might not count.

Edit: At least towards the upper limit.
Maybe... I'm pretty sure Rathje and co. counted each summer before being put back on, but maybe capgeek just wasn't paying that close attention to it unless it really came into play.

(On the upside, Lappy isn't a huge hit when talking about being over even if he is there...)

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02-16-2011, 09:47 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Maybe... I'm pretty sure Rathje and co. counted each summer before being put back on, but maybe capgeek just wasn't paying that close attention to it unless it really came into play.

(On the upside, Lappy isn't a huge hit when talking about being over even if he is there...)
Capgeek back then is not what it is now. It was good for the overall picture, but it has taken some leaps and bounds for its daily calculations and projected deadline cap allowance.

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02-16-2011, 09:48 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Capgeek back then is not what it is now. It was good for the overall picture, but it has taken some leaps and bounds for its daily calculations and projected deadline cap allowance.
Well... it isn't like Rathje has been off the books long. This past offseason was the first time he was gone.

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02-16-2011, 09:52 AM
  #110
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Well... it isn't like Rathje has been off the books long. This past offseason was the first time he was gone.
Well roughly 2 years is pretty long in the world of the internet

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02-16-2011, 05:33 PM
  #111
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Anyone who believes we didn't think we needed a top-flight d-man obviously missed the massive Bouwmeester arguments we had in the spring of 2009 (happy to say I was on the anti-J-Bouw, pro-Pronger side ).

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02-16-2011, 05:35 PM
  #112
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I was pro Pronger, Meh-JBow if i recall correctly

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02-16-2011, 06:36 PM
  #113
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No one was pro-Pronger because the Pronger deal came out of complete left field. Almost 0 indication that it was going to happen until a few hours before the draft started and a few rumbles started to come out.

The camps were either pro giving J-Bo the type of money he would want or anti giving J-Bo the type of money he would want, with most people citing the need for cap space to resign Carter and Giroux as the main sticking point for either side.

I was in the give a d-man money (not necessarily J-Bo, but some top flight dman - although I did rather like the idea of Timonen-Parent, Carle-J-Bo, Coburn-some guy defense pairings) and worrying about those contracts later. If Carter couldn't be fit then so be it, I have always prioritized defense over offense.

PS. I have photographic long term memory, but brutal short term memory. I don't know what I had for breakfast until 2 months after the fact - at which point I could tell you the exact texture, color, shape and sound it made when I chewed of the food.

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02-16-2011, 06:54 PM
  #114
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Everyone knew Pronger was going to get dealt going into that offseason... whether we were going to cut the deal was another matter, but it was well known we were interested in a D after our pursuit of Jay-Bo.

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02-16-2011, 07:19 PM
  #115
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there were Pronger to Flyers rumors at the deadline before the offsean when we got him

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02-16-2011, 07:20 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Everyone knew Pronger was going to get dealt going into that offseason... whether we were going to cut the deal was another matter, but it was well known we were interested in a D after our pursuit of Jay-Bo.
I never once heard the name Pronger associated with the Flyers before the draft began. In fact, I was watching the draft on a built in TV on a spin bike at the gym and when the announcers said the Flyers grabbed a dman I assumed it was J-Bo because I hadn't heard any other names.

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02-16-2011, 10:26 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
I never once heard the name Pronger associated with the Flyers before the draft began. In fact, I was watching the draft on a built in TV on a spin bike at the gym and when the announcers said the Flyers grabbed a dman I assumed it was J-Bo because I hadn't heard any other names.
Pronger was available because Anaheim was getting bent over by the cap, and everyone knew it. The two available guys were Jay-Bo and Pronger, and we went hard in for Pronger (who apparently we almost dealt for at the deadline as well). It didn't really come out of thin air... Jay-Bo seemed like the more "obvious" choice, but Pronger was going to be moved somewhere.

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02-17-2011, 04:22 PM
  #118
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This is actually significantly more bleak than I thought.

Excluding Laperriere, we have 16 players signed for $56.3M. BUT, there is no bonus cushion next year, so the $1.7M of bonuses for Bob and JVR will count against the cap. So we need 6-7 players at only have $1.4M plus the change in the cap to sign them.

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02-17-2011, 04:52 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
This is actually significantly more bleak than I thought.

Excluding Laperriere, we have 16 players signed for $56.3M. BUT, there is no bonus cushion next year, so the $1.7M of bonuses for Bob and JVR will count against the cap. So we need 6-7 players at only have $1.4M plus the change in the cap to sign them.
We have been filling out our roster this whole time without abusing the bonus cushion yet, why would you be concerned by it now? I don't think anyone really considered it as a good option.

If we do manage to keep everyone, then the one real concern I see is not having that 1-2mill in cap space to carry throughout the year. It can play a big part at the trade deadline, as you can see are able to significantly go over the cap limit at this time of the year.

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02-17-2011, 05:02 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
We have been filling out our roster this whole time without abusing the bonus cushion yet, why would you be concerned by it now? I don't think anyone really considered it as a good option.

If we do manage to keep everyone, then the one real concern I see is not having that 1-2mill in cap space to carry throughout the year. It can play a big part at the trade deadline, as you can see are able to significantly go over the cap limit at this time of the year.
Next year, the potential bonuses for JVR and Bob count against the cap immediately from day 1, instead of only when they are reached.

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02-17-2011, 05:05 PM
  #121
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Next year, the potential bonuses for JVR and Bob count against the cap immediately from day 1, instead of only when they are reached.
Yes, but we have filled out the roster assuming the bonus are met already. It doesn't change much.

Although it may affect the max cap deadline calculations, but I have no idea on that.

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02-17-2011, 05:21 PM
  #122
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This season. We have $58M committed to 16 players for 2011-2012, including bonuses.

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02-17-2011, 05:28 PM
  #123
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Actually we will have 19 players on the roster with a cap hit of;

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CAP PAYROLL: $60,669,155 with BONUSES: $1,700,000.
I posted this on the last page. That also depends on how the Lappy LTIR works.

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02-17-2011, 05:53 PM
  #124
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I'm only counting people on the roster right now.

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=24

17 for $57.4 + 1.7M bonuses = $59.1M, but Lappy will not be playing in all likelihood, so 16 for $58.

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02-17-2011, 06:00 PM
  #125
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I'm only counting people on the roster right now.

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=24

17 for $57.4 + 1.7M bonuses = $59.1M, but Lappy will not be playing in all likelihood, so 16 for $58.
Ok, but as we stated before on the last page. Leighton and Walker will be back on the roster come the end of the season. Not that they can't be moved/waived, but for now they have to be counted.

I don't mind ignoring Lappy, because there is a statement that says if a player finishes the season on LTIR they don't count towards the calculations.

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