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Old
02-16-2011, 01:59 PM
  #76
Jobal
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Any sport can succeed in Vancouver, provided the team is at least semi-competitive.

The market here is so diverse and rich ($) that there will be enough people to fill the seats for any sport.

Stu Jackson single-handedly ruined the city's enthusiasm for the Grizzlies. Man, that guy was a pathetic GM. He was like the Mike Milbury of the NBA.

I hope they give Vancouver another team, this time with a rich owner (Aquaman) who has demonstrated an eye for managerial talent.

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02-16-2011, 02:28 PM
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As betrayed as I feel about loosing the Grizz and the Sonics and as much as I think Stern is a total spineless tool and as much as I think the average ignorant American NBA prospect can go stuff themelves...I'd welcome the NBA back to Vancouver with open arms. With sucess of the Olympics I think a lot of that ignorant American stuff is deminished and the city would be huge to fixing the reputation of the league. I also like the idea of drafting the more worldly european players, and if the team drafted the next Steve Francis, I'd just let him sit at home until he figures out how the rest of the world works outside his own ego. After that first one I bet you it'd never happen again.

I don't care if Vancouver becomes the Oilers of the NBA. Ask Oiler fans if they'd rather not have a team at all.

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02-16-2011, 02:45 PM
  #78
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I don't understand the appeal of basketball. It isn't "smooth" like hockey, it's not hard hitting, I don't find many of the people involved with it paticularly appealing in anyway. What does it have going for it exactly?
I'd honestly rather pay to go to a Whitecaps game than see the NBA for free, and I don't even like soccer.

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02-16-2011, 04:10 PM
  #79
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If I had to choose between a NBA or a MLB team for the city of Vancouver, I would choose MLB baseball for one reason: outdoor baseball ballpark without having to build any dome. I would build a ballpark that would be able to see the back-drop of the mountain from the home plate close to the water, kind of similar to S.F. baseball stadium. Imagine the sunset with the mountain in the background in the outfield while the ball game is being played would be awesome, while holding 40,000 seats. Vancouver is perfect for baseball in the summer and onward to September.

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02-16-2011, 04:20 PM
  #80
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Dave Pratt is absolutely convinced the Hornets are coming here for sure. He played Stern's interview on the air and said "listen how he mentions all those other markets just to try and squeeze more money out of Aquillini." Uhh, maybe it's because owners in those markets want to buy them too? Yet, he's absolutely convinced.

I'm sure if/when this doesn't happen, Pratt will completely deny he believed it was happening.

I would prefer an MLB team as well, but open air MLB calibre baseball stadiums don't come out of thin air. We're not going to have one built after the BC Place renovations.

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02-16-2011, 05:05 PM
  #81
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I wouldn't mind this at all; I enjoyed the Grizzly games when they were here (unbelievably). It's been discussed 'ad nauseam' by media sources, but it would take a pretty major CBA over-haul during negotiations to make it workable though. I'd like to see a competitive basketball franchise here, but under the current framework it's basically impossible.

RE: MLB

If the NBA framework is unworkable here, then the MLB framework is doubly so. Add onto that I've never in my life heard a whisper of interest from the MLB in Vancouver, and the fact we have no realistic stadium, and I'd say it's pretty close to 'never happening'.

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02-16-2011, 05:11 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
I wouldn't mind this at all; I enjoyed the Grizzly games when they were here (unbelievably). It's been discussed 'ad nauseam' by media sources, but it would take a pretty major CBA over-haul during negotiations to make it workable though. I'd like to see a competitive basketball franchise here, but under the current framework it's basically impossible.

RE: MLB

If the NBA framework is unworkable here, then the MLB framework is doubly so. Add onto that I've never in my life heard a whisper of interest from the MLB in Vancouver, and the fact we have no realistic stadium, and I'd say it's pretty close to 'never happening'.
The MLB came to Vancouver and played a couple exhibition games at BC Place Stadium....the players hated it.

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Old
02-16-2011, 05:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
I agree with you about fighting but that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

One of the things that Canadians like about hockey is that the players are some of the best ambassadors in major league sports. The NBA has the worst ambassadors in the majors. That's my point.
Best ambassadors? Like ovechkin running around. Like pre 2010 Kesler and Burrows? Matt Cooke? Guys who stutter?


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Old
02-16-2011, 05:40 PM
  #84
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The MLB came to Vancouver and played a couple exhibition games at BC Place Stadium....the players hated it.
that's because BC Place is terrible for a baseball stadium. It's like the Kingdome was in Seattle. The Kingdome was an abomination of a baseball stadium. Gigantic concrete domed monstrosities with astroturf fields are not for baseball in the slightest. Hell, indoor stadiums in general are fading out for baseball on the whole. Now that the Twins have their outdoor park instead of HHH, I can't think of a pure indoor stadium in MLB aside from Tropicana in Tampa. It's either retractable roof stadiums or pure outdoor parks now.

I don't think that baseball would work here since it would need a big, proper stadium. I mean, maybe if they had done that crazy waterfront soccer stadium that they planned for the Whitecaps they could've made it a hybrid soccer/baseball stadium. But even the reno'd BC Place is not really good for baseball.

But on the topic of the NBA here, I'd love for a team to come back, but I'm not sure where my loyalties would lie. I was a big Grizzlies fan when they were here. They basically got me into basketball. My first favorite basketball player was Byron Scott in his year with the Grizz. I still have my Shareef jersey in a closet too even though it's like 3 sizes too small for me now. But they were gone within like 6 years and since then I've been a Raptors fan for the last 9-10 years. Maybe it's because my NHL allegiance is already with an out-of-town team so it makes me less inclined to feel a need to be a home-town guy, but I'm not sure if a team comes back that I can ditch the Raps and choose a new team. I suppose the best case scenario would be a situation where I cheer for both teams until they play each other and then it's one over the other.

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Old
02-16-2011, 05:45 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Horse View Post
I don't understand the appeal of basketball. It isn't "smooth" like hockey, it's not hard hitting, I don't find many of the people involved with it paticularly appealing in anyway. What does it have going for it exactly?
I'd honestly rather pay to go to a Whitecaps game than see the NBA for free, and I don't even like soccer.
Let's ask Savard about hart hitting.


If all you say is true that hockey would be successful in the US.

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Old
02-16-2011, 06:18 PM
  #86
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I used to be a huge NBA fan (moreso than NHL) but after the way they treated Vancouver last time, and watching the league just get worse and worse...no thanks.
Seattle fans feel the same way:

http://sonicsgate.org/movie/

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02-16-2011, 06:27 PM
  #87
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Really, $300m is the price of a franchise?

Hard to see how they could make it work with that much up front investment. They'd have to use profits from the Canucks to subsidize the NBA team, which might impact the Canucks' flexibility in other ways. Think of the Ehrhoff trade - they could justify eating $1.7m in the minors because they're rolling in dough. With an NBA team siphoning off that extra dough, maybe that trade doesn't happen.

So a thumbs down from me. Maybe revisit in a few years after the Whitecaps have got things rolling a bit.

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02-16-2011, 07:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
that's because BC Place is terrible for a baseball stadium. It's like the Kingdome was in Seattle. The Kingdome was an abomination of a baseball stadium. Gigantic concrete domed monstrosities with astroturf fields are not for baseball in the slightest. Hell, indoor stadiums in general are fading out for baseball on the whole. Now that the Twins have their outdoor park instead of HHH, I can't think of a pure indoor stadium in MLB aside from Tropicana in Tampa. It's either retractable roof stadiums or pure outdoor parks now.

I don't think that baseball would work here since it would need a big, proper stadium. I mean, maybe if they had done that crazy waterfront soccer stadium that they planned for the Whitecaps they could've made it a hybrid soccer/baseball stadium. But even the reno'd BC Place is not really good for baseball.

But on the topic of the NBA here, I'd love for a team to come back, but I'm not sure where my loyalties would lie. I was a big Grizzlies fan when they were here. They basically got me into basketball. My first favorite basketball player was Byron Scott in his year with the Grizz. I still have my Shareef jersey in a closet too even though it's like 3 sizes too small for me now. But they were gone within like 6 years and since then I've been a Raptors fan for the last 9-10 years. Maybe it's because my NHL allegiance is already with an out-of-town team so it makes me less inclined to feel a need to be a home-town guy, but I'm not sure if a team comes back that I can ditch the Raps and choose a new team. I suppose the best case scenario would be a situation where I cheer for both teams until they play each other and then it's one over the other.
The NHL is my #1 fav sport, nothing else comes close, so there is no way I could cheer for a second NHL team. When the Canucks get knocked out, I usually have a hard time picking a team to root for to finish the playoffs.

However, in the 90's I had no problem cheering for the Blue Jays, Mariners and Expos in that order. It's not like they ever met in a playoff series anyway. I always had a soft spot for baseball, I played in Babe Ruth little leagues as a teen, and as a math nut, I liked the statistical side to the game. Unfortunately, neither the Mariners or the Blue Jays have done anything significant in a long time, and my interest has faded a lot.

As for basketball, I'd watch the Grizzlies games on TV. I knew they were terribad, I just wanted to see them upset other teams and maybe push for a playoff spot. The way the team relocated left a bad taste in my mouth, and I never could get into cheering for the Raptors, let alone any NBA team. If they came back though, I'd pay attention and watch the games on TV. For my entertainment dollar though, I'd rather pay to watch the Canucks by a large margin.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
I suppose the best case scenario would be a situation where I cheer for both teams until they play each other and then it's one over the other.
I'm facing the same predicament with TFC vs. the Whitecaps. I'll cheer for both, but if they play each other, I'm going to choose Vancouver over Toronto 100% of the time.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Really, $300m is the price of a franchise?

Hard to see how they could make it work with that much up front investment. They'd have to use profits from the Canucks to subsidize the NBA team, which might impact the Canucks' flexibility in other ways. Think of the Ehrhoff trade - they could justify eating $1.7m in the minors because they're rolling in dough. With an NBA team siphoning off that extra dough, maybe that trade doesn't happen.

So a thumbs down from me. Maybe revisit in a few years after the Whitecaps have got things rolling a bit.
NBA TV Revenues: $930M annually until 2016 (TNT,ABC,ESPN)
NHL TV Revenues: ~$500M annually

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...-in-on-tv-deal

Not just that, but a NBA-ready arena already exists with a solid anchor tenant in the Canucks. I can see why Aquilini is chasing this, it's basically like printing money.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:47 PM
  #91
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Victor de Bonis was on ESPN radio in Seattle (Go here, click on the February 16th podcast, de Bonis) talking about the NBA coming back to Vancouver (and also Seattle getting an NHL team). The Vancouver stuff starts about 22 minutes in.

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I hope they give Vancouver another team, this time with a rich owner (Aquaman) who has demonstrated an eye for managerial talent.
This. I love Arthur Griffiths, and he was a great community guy, but he had no clue what he was doing with Orca Bay in the 90s. Aqualini knows what he is good at and he knows what he is not good at, and identifies subordinates and delegates responsibility well (Chris Zimmerman notwithstanding...).

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02-16-2011, 07:59 PM
  #92
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I like how Stern calls Vancouver a mistake, but now is back sniffing when he knows he might need a buyer and market for a struggling franchise.

Was it a mistake or not? Or will you finally admit the NBA handicapped the Grizzlies (and Raptors) from the very start and really crippled their chances at establishing an identity here.

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02-16-2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
Victor de Bonis was on ESPN radio in Seattle (Go here, click on the February 16th podcast, de Bonis) talking about the NBA coming back to Vancouver (and also Seattle getting an NHL team). The Vancouver stuff starts about 22 minutes in.



This. I love Arthur Griffiths, and he was a great community guy, but he had no clue what he was doing with Orca Bay in the 90s. Aqualini knows what he is good at and he knows what he is not good at, and identifies subordinates and delegates responsibility well (Chris Zimmerman notwithstanding...).
NBA also screwed the Grizzlies (and tried to screw the Raptors, except Isiah wasn't a complete clod at that time and they lucked out with Vince) with ridiculous expansion rules that weren't used before or since and with recommending Stu "worst GM in pro sports history" Jackson to run things.

Stu Jackson made Mike Milbury look like Ken Holland.

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02-16-2011, 08:05 PM
  #94
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During one of the greatest times our country has to capitalize on sports franchises entering our great country and we want freaking winnipeg to get a NHL team

I keep hearing about stupid ignorant comments about how bad NBA players are as people because of Steve Francis and such. It's not like Toronto didn't have that stigma and there were some ignorant comments but now a days perception has changed. Jerryd Bayless, for example, that was just traded from New Orleans says Toronto is his favourite city now.

Demar Derozan, Sonny Weems etc all of our young players like the city. Carter and Bosh both played here.

Stop complaining, if your city has a chance to land ANY major sports franchise which puts your city on the map you go for it. Maybe Vancouver just isn't a sports city and doesn't want to be on the Map.

The truth is having just an NHL team doesn't put you on any map outside of Canada. It's not like people in asia or africa know who the sedins are or anything. It's so frusterating how backwards our country is when it comes to sports. I bet someone will tell me to move to the US in response to this post.

Either way, face the facts.. NBA franchises have not lost value and they have a great Television contract that they acquired AFTER the grizzlies left vancouver. It's a lot different of a situation now a days. The grizzlies shouldn't have even been in Vancouver to begin with, the griffiths bankrolled the team and when time came no local business people stepped up to keep the franchise in Vancouver.

It was a bad time for sports in Canada. We lost the expos for the same reason too.

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02-16-2011, 08:06 PM
  #95
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Stu Jackson made Mike Milbury look like Ken Holland.
Stu Jackson: the NBA's Doug MacLean.

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02-16-2011, 08:09 PM
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Stu Jackson: the NBA's Doug MacLean.
Jackson is more like the Milbury of the NBA

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02-16-2011, 08:10 PM
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Jackson is more like the Milbury of the NBA
Milbury looks downright sane compared to Jackson.

I know that they couldn't possibly have known back then, but in like 1998 he traded a future 1st round pick to the Pistons for Grant Long. That pick ended up being for 2003 (aka the draft with LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Anthony, etc).


For Grant Long. The NBA equivalent to a 3rd line winger.

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02-16-2011, 08:12 PM
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Milbury looks downright sane compared to Jackson.

I know that they couldn't possibly have known back then, but in like 1998 he traded a future 1st round pick to the Pistons for Grant Long. That pick ended up being for 2003 (aka the draft with LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Anthony, etc).


For Grant Long.
It was for Otis Thorpe, and the Pistons did nothing with that pick, which is nothing short of amazing, in a bad way.

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02-16-2011, 08:14 PM
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It was for Otis Thorpe, and the Pistons did nothing with that pick, which is nothing short of amazing, in a bad way.
Thorpe. that's right. My bad. Still an awful trade even if Detroit blew it.

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02-16-2011, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Milbury looks downright sane compared to Jackson.

I know that they couldn't possibly have known back then, but in like 1998 he traded a future 1st round pick to the Pistons for Grant Long. That pick ended up being for 2003 (aka the draft with LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Anthony, etc).


For Grant Long. The NBA equivalent to a 3rd line winger.
I believe that was the pick the cavs got lebron james with if I recall..

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