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Old
02-15-2011, 04:58 PM
  #51
digdug41982
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I think some of these Isles fans have been tortured so much that some of them don't even exactly know good hockey from bad hockey. But on the other hand, I've seen a hell of a lot more bad Blackhawk hockey and more bad players wearing that uniform than good ones. It never got me thinking Zhamnov was better than Sakic though... I fully understood the players on my team sucked and the players on other teams were good. I hoped some day we could have a good team but anything on our team was fair game if the good teams saw something they could use because we were going nowhere fast. Yes, every year brings renewed optimism for that all important 8th spot. Anything higher than that would be reaching for the stars, but 8th spot, why not us? Because we were horrible and found out every year in case we weren't sure about it before.

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:12 PM
  #52
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It's a good thing we have Blackhawks fans to set us straight. In fact, I'm not even sure why the OP would want our trashy players, what with their contributions to our bad record and all that.

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Go Go Green View Post
It's a good thing we have Blackhawks fans to set us straight. In fact, I'm not even sure why the OP would want our trashy players, what with their contributions to our bad record and all that.
Nobody said they were trashy. However, you guys ganging up to say Bolland>Nielsen, Streit is better than and more valuable than Seabrook, Tavares is better than Sharp and Hossa. What kind of response do you expect?

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I think some of these Isles fans have been tortured so much that some of them don't even exactly know good hockey from bad hockey. But on the other hand, I've seen a hell of a lot more bad Blackhawk hockey and more bad players wearing that uniform than good ones. It never got me thinking Zhamnov was better than Sakic though... I fully understood the players on my team sucked and the players on other teams were good. I hoped some day we could have a good team but anything on our team was fair game if the good teams saw something they could use because we were going nowhere fast. Yes, every year brings renewed optimism for that all important 8th spot. Anything higher than that would be reaching for the stars, but 8th spot, why not us? Because we were horrible and found out every year in case we weren't sure about it before.
We know we suck and we know who sucks. KO, Streit, Andy MacDonald, Tavares, Moulson, Grabner, Nielsen, Martinek maybe Bailey and maybe Comeau are the only decent NHLers we have. We know everyone else sucks. Just look at our boards or game day threads. Not a post goes by without one of us mentioning how bad PAP is or that Bruno is only good for cooking. We know this, we are not delusional. We do however know when a player is different from the rest of the suckiness. Streit is a legit NHLer on every team and there is absolutely no reason for us to be trading him. He is a PP QB and plays good defense. Seabrook is decent value but at worst its a lateral move and at best its a slight improvement (over the long run). There is too much mystery to take a chance.

As for the original proposal, its brutal. As someone said earlier, Streit alone is worth (i would say almost) that and Nielsen is a throw in? Nielsen is one of the better values in the league. There was a poll earlier in which Nielsen finished second as far as underrated players go. There is no reason to trade an asset that is undervalued, especially when this asset is quite useful to us.

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:29 PM
  #55
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I say no. Streit and Nielsen are a part of our future. We also have enough unproven talent in this organization.

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:35 PM
  #56
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The Islanders need to add players to their roster, not subtract two of their most important roster players.

How are two years of Mark Streit not valuable to the Islanders? To say that they would be losing him for nothing is silly; the Islanders would be trading 2 years of service from arguably their most important player.

Nielsen is signed for one more season at $525,000. How is that not extremely valuable for a team which is barely over the cap floor? (Which is including ~$6 million in buyouts for this season.)

If the Islanders have an internal cap on payroll, then they're not trading a guy like Nielsen unless he becomes too expensive to re-sign. (Considering the numbers that Nielsen has tossed about in a recent interview, it's unlikely that the Islanders do not sign him to a fair deal...much the same they did with Moulson.) If the Islanders were trading Nielsen, they wouldn't be dealing him until next season's deadline.

The Islanders would need roster players or close to ready prospects for either player. They also wouldn't just hand these guys over without some overpayment.

The value is not here for both of these players at this time; the trade also makes no sense for the Islanders. Who is going to step in and play for Nielsen? Who are the Islanders going to replace Streit with next season (and the following)? At what salary cost for both? The Islanders would be hard-pressed to find similar players at similar cost. If the Islanders simply use the above draft picks, it's unlikely that an impact player is going to be finding their way to the organization for a number of years.

That's pretty much most of the reasons that I could think of on why this doesn't happen from the perspective of the NYI (and presumably almost the entirety of their fans.)

I hope that logically explains why the NYI would pass.

Edit - Not to mention, right now Nielsen is on our most dominant line which is defensively sound and producing very significant offensive numbers. Add to this, Nielsen is one of our most experienced forwards (which is sad, considering he's only played 215 NHL games.)

,
Mitch


Last edited by mitchy22: 02-15-2011 at 05:41 PM.
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Old
02-15-2011, 05:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post



what have I said that makes you believe I overrate Seabrook or Bolland? Because I say Bolland is the better player than Nielsen? News for you, he is and he has proven it. Take out the contracts and you should realize it.


and great... more stats to prove Nielsen is better than Bolland will follow... can't wait for it


Stats aren't everything, Streit is an Offensive DMen, he will always have more points than Seabrook....
Bolland hasnt proven squat

Bolland had 1 fluke season and neilsen has outscored him every single one other than that on a far worse team

I was here for 4 islander cups and everyone of them was better than last years blackhawks so dont tell me I dont know Nielsen is better

put neilsen on the Hawks and he'd be better by far than Bolland,

all hes had is one fluke season and a hot streak during the playoffs.
it happens ask Al Weis and Brian Doyle

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:40 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I think some of these Isles fans have been tortured so much that some of them don't even exactly know good hockey from bad hockey.
im not an isles fan..but just because you think seabrook > streit and sharp, hossa > tavares does not make it true. I like the way hossa plays a ton and sharp has been very solid for a few years now but there is no way i would move tavares for any of them..ever.

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:45 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I think some of these Isles fans have been tortured so much that some of them don't even exactly know good hockey from bad hockey. But on the other hand, I've seen a hell of a lot more bad Blackhawk hockey and more bad players wearing that uniform than good ones. It never got me thinking Zhamnov was better than Sakic though... I fully understood the players on my team sucked and the players on other teams were good. I hoped some day we could have a good team but anything on our team was fair game if the good teams saw something they could use because we were going nowhere fast. Yes, every year brings renewed optimism for that all important 8th spot. Anything higher than that would be reaching for the stars, but 8th spot, why not us? Because we were horrible and found out every year in case we weren't sure about it before.
cdoldsteel, youre not stupid i know that, you do know some of us were here when we had arguably the best team of all time? i say arguably because they won 19 straight Stanley Cup series, something I sincerely doubt will EVER happen again.

I know good hockey most of our team is trash im not stupid, but yes I take Neilsen over Bolland, because for all his defensive skill he's injury prone and neilsen isnt, he also faces the opposing teams top players every game

and yes i take Streit over Seabrook every time because Streit brings leadership and Mentoring and offense. over all hes just a better overall player

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:47 PM
  #60
digdug41982
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkovsby View Post
im not an isles fan..but just because you think seabrook > streit and sharp, hossa > tavares does not make it true. I like the way hossa plays a ton and sharp has been very solid for a few years now but there is no way i would move tavares for any of them..ever.
Neither would I. That was my whole point. Young and potential matter. You don't just compare point totals and determine who is better that way. Age, youth, health history, defense, there are a ton of factors to take into account.

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Nobody said they were trashy. However, you guys ganging up to say Bolland>Nielsen, Streit is better than and more valuable than Seabrook, Tavares is better than Sharp and Hossa. What kind of response do you expect?
other than Tavares being better than Sharp or Hossa (he isnt ....yet)
the rest is true

you really over value seabrook and Bolland

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Old
02-15-2011, 05:53 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Neither would I. That was my whole point. Young and potential matter. You don't just compare point totals and determine who is better that way. Age, youth, health history, defense, there are a ton of factors to take into account.
yes i realize that, but in regards to your original statement of streit/seabrook i would take streit. I think he will be islanders captain once weight is done, he brings so much to the islanders organization. seabrook is a good defenceman but i dont view him as a building block. hes a nice piece for any team to be certain but to have him as equal value to streit, regardless of age or injury history, is wrong.

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:13 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by The Wayner View Post
I would imagine NY would be all over this. Not sure if you can trade a player on the LTIR though. Makes an interesting CHI lineup, and an interesting NYI draft (again). The way Snow has been drafting, these picks could be very nice.
You'd be very wrong. Nielsen is one of the best defensive centers around & now that he's been given solid linemates in grabner & okposo, not only does he shut down teams lines, but his points are going up.
Streit is hurt but when he comes back later this/next season, he will still be a valuable asset ON the ice & helps the team much more than a couple of meaningless second rd picks.
Not to mention frans is signed super cheap. Isles pass all day.

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:26 PM
  #64
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Put down the crack pipe coldsteel, No *** way this happens.

Here's a proposal

Seabrook
for
Macdonald
Neilsen
2nd 2011

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:30 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Put down the crack pipe coldsteel, No *** way this happens.

Here's a proposal

Seabrook
for
Macdonald
Neilsen
2nd 2011
much better, but still a polite no.

At 5M+ for Seabrook, we're better off keeping what we have

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Old
02-15-2011, 06:36 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Chicago
Frans Nielsen
Mark Streit

New York
1st Rd. CHI 2011
2nd Rd. ATL 2011
2nd Rd. CGY 2011

This is wayyy outside the box, so bear with me. For the Isles, they get 3 high draft picks for a couple veteran players. Isles fans, let me know if value is right. For the Hawks, they get Nielsen to play 3rd line C; Bolland moves up, or vice versa depending on who is hot. Now, the coup for the Hawks. If Streit can be back for the playoffs, and I don't see any reason why he couldn't with the amount of recovery time he will have had, the Hawks can add him to the roster without having him count against the cap. The only part I'm not sure about is if players retain their IR status even in trade and up until activation. I can't remember what happened with Sturm when he was dealt, but this could be a major forward thinking move by the Hawks that could secure another Cup. In the offseason, we trade Hjalmarsson and Streit takes his spot.

Sharp-Toews-Kane
Frolik-Bolland-Hossa
Bickell-Nielsen-Brouwer
Kopecky-Dowell-Pisani

Keith-Seabrook
Streit-Campbell
Hjalmarsson-Leddy

Crawford
Turco

Better than last years Cup winner?? Quite possibly.
Isles wouldn't move Streit alone for that package.He's their best defensemen,a mentor for their kids.

Isles have a lot of prospects who've been added over the last three drafts.Isles aren't moving Streit or Neilsen for picks,who are anywhere from 1-4 yrs from contributing.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:05 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Chicago
Frans Nielsen
Mark Streit

New York
1st Rd. CHI 2011
2nd Rd. ATL 2011
2nd Rd. CGY 2011
Not in a million years.

A late first and 2 2nd round picks for an all star who could have a great year and at least be in the conversation for a Norris (though unlikely still an all-star) and a potential Selke winner?

Why would the Islander go back 2 full seasons in their rebuild? These two players are part of the solution for the Isles not the problem.

Isles hang up the phone and laugh out loud telling stories of how Mike Milbury would have made the deal without the first round pick....

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:31 PM
  #68
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Don't see these teams being trade partners.

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Old
02-16-2011, 01:44 PM
  #69
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Don't see these teams being trade partners.
i could see martinek to chicago.

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Old
02-16-2011, 05:57 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Yes, but Streit is 33 and the Isles are in a long term rebuild.
long term rebuild that is almost over.

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Old
02-16-2011, 06:23 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by IslesFanatic707 View Post
long term rebuild that is almost over.
It's almost like people who talk about the Islanders don't ever watch the Islanders.

The Islanders are about ready to contend for the playoffs, peeps.

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Old
02-16-2011, 07:30 PM
  #72
AlMo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wayner View Post
I would imagine NY would be all over this. Not sure if you can trade a player on the LTIR though. Makes an interesting CHI lineup, and an interesting NYI draft (again). The way Snow has been drafting, these picks could be very nice.
No they wouldn't.......Snow gives up two of the Isles best players in this deal

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Old
02-16-2011, 08:30 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Put down the crack pipe coldsteel, No *** way this happens.

Here's a proposal

Seabrook
for
Macdonald
Neilsen
2nd 2011
Still no. MacDonald is criminally underrated on these boards. I wouldn't trade him and the 2nd for Seabrook, let alone adding Frans.

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Old
02-16-2011, 11:49 PM
  #74
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HFBoards in a nutshell...

3 pages on a topic that should have been closed after the first post.

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Old
02-17-2011, 12:41 AM
  #75
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HFBoards in a nutshell...

3 pages on a topic that should have been closed after the first post.


Haha, isn't that what these boards are all about?

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