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Old
02-17-2011, 05:41 AM
  #701
Vic Vinegar
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Bernier + Voynov for Stewart is a huge overpayment, IMHO.
Stewart is the ideal power forward. Kopitar and Stewart would work wonders if they played on the same line. Put a complimentary player like Brown or Smyth on the LW and you have a dominant 1st line.

I like Voynov a lot, but does he really fit on our roster? Sure we can have him play on the bottom pairing with Greene and I'm sure he'll do well there, but eventually he'll want to play in the top 4, where he belongs. And then we'll have to trade him, and we probably wouldn't get anything close to as good as Stewart. Martinez has proven to be a perfectly serviceable no. 6 defenseman, and he will have Hickey, Muzzin, and Fransson (is he still under contract?) challenging for his spot. Although I think Voynov will be a very good defenseman, he just can't compete with DD and JJ. He's already shown that he will simply leave the team if he doesn't get to play where he feels he deserves, why wouldn't he do it again? Honestly, I think despite all his talent he is more valuable to the Kings as trade bait. No one ever likes to send quality players inter-conference, but sometimes it is beneficial for both teams.

Although I really like this deal and what it does for the Kings, I think the ideal time to make this trade would be at the end of next season, after we have a better feel for Bernier and his progress. Not only does waiting to see how Bernier develops help us decide who is our future goalie, it shows to other teams (like the Avs) that this goalie is legit and makes them more comfortable trading significant pieces for him. However, the Avs might have already gotten a starter by that point, so the deal won't be there. In fact, I'm pretty confident they will get a goalie by then, so the Kings would have to act sooner, but not before the deadline (not enough time to get a suitable back up for the playoffs). If we waited until the summer, we could make the trade and pick up a veteran backup, or we could even send Quick instead (and replace Voynov with someone less valuable....Moller?) and go for Vokoun through free agency.

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02-17-2011, 06:19 AM
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Bernier + Voynov for Stewart is a huge overpayment, IMHO.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orenji View Post
Bernier + Teubert + Conditional 3rd Round Pick If We Win a Playoff Series (4th if we don't) for Stewart
Far better, but I think Tuebert is far from NHL ready

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Originally Posted by TheDankness View Post
Stewart is the ideal power forward. Kopitar and Stewart would work wonders if they played on the same line. Put a complimentary player like Brown or Smyth on the LW and you have a dominant 1st line.
Brown on any line right now =/= dominant

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Originally Posted by TheDankness View Post
I like Voynov a lot, but does he really fit on our roster? Sure we can have him play on the bottom pairing with Greene and I'm sure he'll do well there, but eventually he'll want to play in the top 4, where he belongs. And then we'll have to trade him, and we probably wouldn't get anything close to as good as Stewart. Martinez has proven to be a perfectly serviceable no. 6 defenseman, and he will have Hickey, Muzzin, and Fransson (is he still under contract?) challenging for his spot. Although I think Voynov will be a very good defenseman, he just can't compete with DD and JJ. He's already shown that he will simply leave the team if he doesn't get to play where he feels he deserves, why wouldn't he do it again? Honestly, I think despite all his talent he is more valuable to the Kings as trade bait. No one ever likes to send quality players inter-conference, but sometimes it is beneficial for both teams.

Although I really like this deal and what it does for the Kings, I think the ideal time to make this trade would be at the end of next season, after we have a better feel for Bernier and his progress. Not only does waiting to see how Bernier develops help us decide who is our future goalie, it shows to other teams (like the Avs) that this goalie is legit and makes them more comfortable trading significant pieces for him. However, the Avs might have already gotten a starter by that point, so the deal won't be there. In fact, I'm pretty confident they will get a goalie by then, so the Kings would have to act sooner, but not before the deadline (not enough time to get a suitable back up for the playoffs). If we waited until the summer, we could make the trade and pick up a veteran backup, or we could even send Quick instead (and replace Voynov with someone less valuable....Moller?) and go for Vokoun through free agency.
There is so much wrong with this part of the post:

"Send Quick instead?" JQ is going nowhere but on the ice for the Los Angeles Kings.

As for Voynov, the greatest concern is his threat to go back home if he doesnt make it ato the NHL after three years, (this being his third year.) That maybe why DL would consider moving him, BUT, teh kid has game and is not just a throw-in on any old deal that comes down the pipe. As good as A-Mart has played, there may be room in next year for VV, or if one of our stay at home D is traded (think Mitchell -- although I love this guy).

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02-17-2011, 07:19 AM
  #703
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Brown on any line right now =/= dominant
Brown is also not on a line with 2 elite forwards. I think Brown would do very well if he was the least talented player on a line, and played like it. He can forecheck hard, throw hits, and convert on chances created by other players. We've all seen him do it. The problem arises when he's the go-to guy and he's expected to generate his own opportunities. That wouldn't be the case if my pipe dream were to come true and Stewart somehow ended up on the Kings. Look at the Capitals' first line, Ovechkin-Backstrom-Knuble. Would you say Knuble is a dominant offensive force? Absolutely not, but last year he had 53 points in 69 games. Or what about the Canucks first line? Samuelsson has 40 points in 57 games this year. Both of these lines were the 1st line on conference champions (Vancouver hasn't technically won yet, but they will). Brown certainly isn't a dominant player, but that doesn't mean any line with him on it can't become dominant.

Quote:
There is so much wrong with this part of the post:

"Send Quick instead?" JQ is going nowhere but on the ice for the Los Angeles Kings.
Yeah, thinking about that now I take it back. That was more me just thinking out loud (on text?). Vokoun would cost too much, he'd want a long deal and that wouldn't allow Bernier to take over, and the most recent cup winning goalies have been young. Quick will either be a King forever, or until Bernier takes over, if he takes over.

Quote:
As for Voynov, the greatest concern is his threat to go back home if he doesnt make it ato the NHL after three years, (this being his third year.) That maybe why DL would consider moving him, BUT, teh kid has game and is not just a throw-in on any old deal that comes down the pipe. As good as A-Mart has played, there may be room in next year for VV, or if one of our stay at home D is traded (think Mitchell -- although I love this guy).
I think he has the skills to make the team next year (didn't he make it this year but then got injured?). I doubt DL makes any changes to the top 4 + Greene this summer, so if Voynov makes the team next year, and I think he will, it should be on the bottom pairing with Greene. And, as a rookie, that is exactly where he should be. But if he develops like we all want him to, keeping him there would be a waste of talent. The fact that he said he would rather play in Russia than in the AHL again tells me his top priority is to play where he thinks he deserves. There's nothing wrong with that, but if he feels he deserves second pairing minutes, why shouldn't he leave?

I'm not saying we should dump him on the first team to show interest, but you can't hold on to all of your valuable players all the time, sometimes you need to give up assets to fill a need. We have an excess of defensive prospects; Voynov, Hickey, and Forbort are the most tradeable. Hickey's value has gone down, and we traded up to get Forbort- no way DL gives up on him so soon. That leaves Voynov.

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02-17-2011, 08:54 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by TheDankness View Post
Brown is also not on a line with 2 elite forwards. I think Brown would do very well if he was the least talented player on a line, and played like it. He can forecheck hard, throw hits, and convert on chances created by other players. We've all seen him do it. The problem arises when he's the go-to guy and he's expected to generate his own opportunities. That wouldn't be the case if my pipe dream were to come true and Stewart somehow ended up on the Kings. Look at the Capitals' first line, Ovechkin-Backstrom-Knuble. Would you say Knuble is a dominant offensive force? Absolutely not, but last year he had 53 points in 69 games. Or what about the Canucks first line? Samuelsson has 40 points in 57 games this year. Both of these lines were the 1st line on conference champions (Vancouver hasn't technically won yet, but they will). Brown certainly isn't a dominant player, but that doesn't mean any line with him on it can't become dominant.
Sure Brown can be put on a first line, but he is really not a true first line player and I think I am supported by the majority here (not that that means anything) that he is more suited for second or even third line duties. The fact is that he hasnt converted squat lately, although he has had chances. Even last night there was a point where he thought the Kings had scored and he just stopped skating for a good couple of seconds. Sorry, but Brown is not the winger you want on your first line. (These are not the droids you are looking for)

Quote:

I'm not saying we should dump him on the first team to show interest, but you can't hold on to all of your valuable players all the time, sometimes you need to give up assets to fill a need. We have an excess of defensive prospects; Voynov, Hickey, and Forbort are the most tradeable. Hickey's value has gone down, and we traded up to get Forbort- no way DL gives up on him so soon. That leaves Voynov.
You'll not get me on the Hickey band-wagon, and the way VV is playing now he's got more trade value. But, I could see DL trading hickey befoer VV, unless DL really thinks VV will pack it in, go home and play in the KHL next year

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02-17-2011, 09:43 AM
  #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
You'll not get me on the Hickey band-wagon, and the way VV is playing now he's got more trade value. But, I could see DL trading hickey befoer VV, unless DL really thinks VV will pack it in, go home and play in the KHL next year
I would think Voynov's "NHL or I'm going home" attitude would hurt his trade value. If I'm a GM I'd be saying sure he's a stud D prospect, maybe NHL ready, is already making demands and could turn out to be one of those grumbling complaints who always demands more minutes. Not saying that's the case but I'm sure its a factor. What if I trade for him and he's NOT NHL ready? Then I lose a huge piece of the trade I made. It's something to consider with all these Voynov trade scenarios flying around.

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02-17-2011, 10:04 AM
  #706
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Am I the only one that thins that one of Drewiski, Harold or Richardson will come down with "an upper-body injury" when LA gets back from NY, allowing Lokti to stay when Sturm comes back?

I hope something like tis is the case. Where would LA have been in these tight games witout Lokti's offence? Not the time to send him back, if ever.

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02-17-2011, 10:11 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Kings4thecup View Post
Am I the only one that thins that one of Drewiski, Harold or Richardson will come down with "an upper-body injury" when LA gets back from NY, allowing Lokti to stay when Sturm comes back?

I hope something like tis is the case. Where would LA have been in these tight games witout Lokti's offence? Not the time to send him back, if ever.

If need be, we can send Martinez down for a couple of weeks. That'll give much needed playing time for either Harrold or Drewiske. Do those guys still even know how to play?

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02-17-2011, 10:25 AM
  #708
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If need be, we can send Martinez down for a couple of weeks. That'll give much needed playing time for either Harrold or Drewiske. Do those guys still even know how to play?
I love Loki and want him to stay, but Martinez is going nowhere. He keeps improving and is proving the be the best of both worlds between Harrold and Whiskey, and THEN some.

I will not be upset if Whiskey is subjected to waivers. I've always really like Davis, but besides the pretty rock solid play of Martinez, I think Harrold has looked infinitely better this year in his games than Whiskey. Someone has to go and it shouldn't be anyone who is performing well.

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02-17-2011, 10:27 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Kings4thecup View Post
Am I the only one that thins that one of Drewiski, Harold or Richardson will come down with "an upper-body injury" when LA gets back from NY, allowing Lokti to stay when Sturm comes back?

I hope something like tis is the case. Where would LA have been in these tight games witout Lokti's offence? Not the time to send him back, if ever.
There's only 5 games left before the trade deadline and one of them is tonight. The roster can expand beyond 23 players in 11 days. It's a non-issue. Right now, Sturm would be a healthy scratch, so there's no need to activate him. Even if they wanted him to get a game or two in before the 28th, they can send Loktionov down for a few days. Again, it's a non-issue.

I do think one or more of the players you mentioned will probably be gone by the deadline, as I expect DL to add a player or two.

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Old
02-17-2011, 10:29 AM
  #710
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I love Loki and want him to stay, but Martinez is going nowhere. He keeps improving and is proving the be the best of both worlds between Harrold and Whiskey, and THEN some.

I will not be upset if Whiskey is subjected to waivers. I've always really like Davis, but besides the pretty rock solid play of Martinez, I think Harrold has looked infinitely better this year in his games than Whiskey. Someone has to go and it shouldn't be anyone who is performing well.

Would you trade one of Harrold or Drewiske to Vancouver? They have SIX INJURED defenseman.

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02-17-2011, 10:34 AM
  #711
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Would you trade one of Harrold or Drewiske to Vancouver? They have SIX INJURED defenseman.
Well, the roster expansion makes it a tougher decision. If they wanted Drewiske for like a 5th rounder, I'd do it. I wouldn't trade Harrold, unless someone was stupid enough to offer like a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him, because he is too useful as utility. Harrold has the ability to play his best even after 40 games off whereas Whiskey always needs a week to warm up into full speed after extended periods of being scratched.

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02-17-2011, 10:35 AM
  #712
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I don't know if this was mentioned or not but Darren Dreger is ssaying on The Team 990 radio station that the Kings are the front runners for Ales Hemsky..

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02-17-2011, 10:51 AM
  #713
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I don't know if this was mentioned or not but Darren Dreger is ssaying on The Team 990 radio station that the Kings are the front runners for Ales Hemsky..
It's been said L.A. has offered Simmonds, (Tourbert sp D-man) and a pick for Hemsky but Tambi is holding out for Schenn. I doubt we get Schenn but it's worth a try

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02-17-2011, 10:53 AM
  #714
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I seriously doubt lombardi would trade Simmonds for Hemsky...no way in hell schenn goes.

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02-17-2011, 11:01 AM
  #715
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If Hemsky is coming, Simmonds has to go.. Hemsky is a RW, we have too many, someone has to go lol, Dustin Brown can play on the third line for all I care

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02-17-2011, 11:03 AM
  #716
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I seriously doubt lombardi would trade Simmonds for Hemsky...no way in hell schenn goes.
That's already been offered so yes he would trade Simmonds plus for Hemsky. I don't think anyone knows what Hemsky is worth. When healthy he is in the top 10 RW in the NHL for producing points, that's top 10 in the whole NHL.that's out of 120 RW'ers. The problem is can he stay healthy. And I agree Schenn is out of the question but it would be nice to have Hall, Schenn Eberle for years to come.

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02-17-2011, 11:05 AM
  #717
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I seriously doubt lombardi would trade Simmonds for Hemsky...no way in hell schenn goes.
I wouldn't be surprised to be Simmonds dealt for Hemsky. One, you have some decent depth at RW. If you trade Simmonds and lose Williams to free agency you still have Hemsky and Brown in the top 6 next season. Two, I believe the rumors of a wild lifestyle, being a poor influence on Doughty and Wayne has taken a step back statistically in year 3. Is he a top 6 forward? No. Will he be? You have to wait to find out. 23 points, 40 points and this season he's on pace for 29 points. He hasn't scored a power play point in 2 seasons so Terry Murray sees Wayne as a 3rd line winger. IMO, the Kings are in position to consolidate prospects and young talent for an upgrade and that kind of deal would fit.

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02-17-2011, 11:06 AM
  #718
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If Hemsky is coming, Simmonds has to go.. Hemsky is a RW, we have too many....

Without Simmonds, Kopitar can't score. Couldn't we give them Parse and/or Richardson instead?

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02-17-2011, 11:11 AM
  #719
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Without Simmonds, Kopitar can't score. Couldn't we give them Parse and/or Richardson instead?
Are you crazy Hemsky with Kopitar would be money, Put Smyth on LW and that my friends is one hell of a 1st line. Kopitar wouldn't know what to do with all those gravy tap ins

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02-17-2011, 11:13 AM
  #720
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Without Simmonds, Kopitar can't score. Couldn't we give them Parse and/or Richardson instead?
Why not throw in Zeiler too?

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02-17-2011, 11:16 AM
  #721
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Lmao give Edmonton crap for one of their best players? Richardson and Parse? Come on man, Simmonds looks good with Kopitar but Hemsky would look amazing, if he can stay healthy.

Handzus-Kopitar-Hemsky
Smyth-Stoll-Williams
Clifford-Loktionov-Brown
Poni/Sturm-Lewis-Richardson/Westgarth

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02-17-2011, 11:19 AM
  #722
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I wouldn't be surprised to be Simmonds dealt for Hemsky. One, you have some decent depth at RW. If you trade Simmonds and lose Williams to free agency you still have Hemsky and Brown in the top 6 next season. Two, I believe the rumors of a wild lifestyle, being a poor influence on Doughty and Wayne has taken a step back statistically in year 3. Is he a top 6 forward? No. Will he be? You have to wait to find out. 23 points, 40 points and this season he's on pace for 29 points. He hasn't scored a power play point in 2 seasons so Terry Murray sees Wayne as a 3rd line winger. IMO, the Kings are in position to consolidate prospects and young talent for an upgrade and that kind of deal would fit.
I completely agree with this. I love Simmonds and when I heard the rumor that DL offered up Simmonds+ for Hemsky I pretty much gagged...then I thought about it with my head and not my heart. Simmonds, though a fan favorite, is no more than a 3rd liner right now, and he's regressed this season to show that he's just a 3rd liner. He doesn't play PP (or doesn't have a PP point), doesn't play PK. Yes, he's playing on the 1st line right now, but that's not where his actual talent sits. We could get a 1st line RWer for a 3rd line RW and a struggling d prospect (which we have a TON of). If Hemsky can stay healthy (and really most of his career he has except recently but all different injuries so nothing chronic), he is a PPG player w/o Kopitar and a good LA Kings team. Do you know how much better our PP and our 1st line could be? A lot of fans complain that Brown isn't a 1st liner, and this would take him off of the 1st line for good (I know he's not playing 1st line right now). Also, it's not like Hemsky is a UFA or an old player. He's 27 years old, his cap hit is $4.1 mil and has a contract through next year. We would be getting him in his prime, and if he works out next year could hopefully sign him long term.

Like I said, just trying to think with my head and not my heart.

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02-17-2011, 11:21 AM
  #723
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That's already been offered so yes he would trade Simmonds plus for Hemsky.
How can you claim to know what has already been offered? Because Eklund said so?

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02-17-2011, 11:22 AM
  #724
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How can you claim to know what has already been offered? Because Eklund said so?
Actually, I've seen it mentioned about 3-4 times by different people (and no I don't have the links right now).

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02-17-2011, 11:25 AM
  #725
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Actually, I've seen it mentioned about 3-4 times by different people (and no I don't have the links right now).
I'm not shocked that you don't have the links handy. Those rumors started with Eklund, Barry and the Fourth Period, all useless sources when it comes to trade rumors.

By the way, I'm not saying we wouldn't have to give to get, but people accepting these sources as proof that a specific offer has been made just floors me.

If we give up Simmonds for an injury-prone player who has never scored more than 23 goals, I'll be really disappointed.

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